Developer Diary, Part 38

[MarcoRossolini]

If you think "communication is horrid" in this development then I don't know where you got your yardstick from...

[71st_AH_Hooves]

seriously confused - we are going to have limited capped early access ?   Odd.

 

I thought a founder for $89 meant we'd have access to the bits like a beta - I don't know any betas that cap your weekly play time ?

Planetside 2 did it. Even for the early paying founders. Star citizen will be doing it for early founders. Ps2 turned out awesome. Pretty sure star citizen will be amazing.

 

Again this thread is highlighting the entitlement society we live in. We are getting what we paid for....early access. How its rolled out is subject to the creators. And wont be limited for long. Get your panties out of a bunch.

[Heywooood]

AKA_RECON, I have seen no threats of locks or banning and at least so far things have remained fairly calm.

 

I am on record in this thread as being extremely upset with the rollout plan so my addressing your comment cannot be construed as "fanboiism" and I am actually disappointed to see that divisive word surface.

 

It does seem, if one reads every post, that when moderators reply, they admonish protesters a bit more than they admonish those who have appointed themselves "Defenders Of The Faith".

 

I do not think "the communication is horrid" is a fair statement either.

It has certainly not been the "communication" many here, me included, wanted to read but both Zac and Jason have explained the company position.

 

the only thing I would point out here is that there is no need to admonish people here who have read the developers posts...Zak has clearly dilineated their reasoning WRT early access.

 

do people have a right to be upset over the initial restricted access? maybe. But hardly to the 'end of times' level represented by some. There is a difference between 'stating a position' and 'caterwauling' and that line has been crossed with extreme prejudice by some...and repeatedly by a few special ones. 

 

"Defenders of the Faith" and "fanboi" is the same thing isn't it? still parsing the community in my view....

[TetraD]

Well i'm little disappointed with this three day limit, but luckily i will have all thursdays freetime for six weeks starting 14. november.

[Rivet]

I've been retiscent to post anything in this thread as frankly I'm surprised by the attitudes of some here. Of course everyone is entitled to post their opinions of the dev team's decisions, favourably or otherwise, but please let's keep it civil and try not to turn these boards into the old "Ubi Zoo" and "banana forums" rants and tantrums.

 

Jason, Albert and Zak have been very honest with us so far in their answers in this thread and to see such dissent must be disheartening to some extent, no matter how long they may have been active in the game development industry and are "used to it". They must have the patience of Job.

 

The genre is a small one and we really shouldn't be complaining (bitterly in some cases) about access to a game in its ALPHA stages a good six months before its intended retail release date. Instead we should be grateful for the early access we are being given, limited or otherwise. I can't recall any other developers of this type of sim having given access at all at such an early stage, so to be complaining about the way it is being made available seems quite ludicrous.

 

Yes it is a little disappointing that the early access is limited and during the middle of the week but I gave my money mainly to support a team I can believe in (ROF) and a struggling genre on what is still the best gaming platform there is - the PC. I also paid for the early access and extra planes, of course I did, I'm just as eager as anyone to get my hands on the Lagg and 109 as soon as possible.

 

I think enough has been said here and we should leave Jason, Albert, Zak and the rest of the team to do what they intend to do in the manner they deem to be "optimal" to quote Zak and that is to deliver a top quality combat flight sim next year. By then we may all have the benchmark Combat Flight Simulation we want that will be expanded and played for many years to come.

 

No one can please everyone all of the time. There will always be some dissatisfaction but what I've seen in some posts here is over the top.

[Bussard_x]

I think it is unfair to mention CloD in this context. It is still a fine piece of software. We could easily do without bashing it even more, since it has active playing and developing public.

 

One more reason why 1CGS needs to have a proffesional spokesman here.

 

Clod a fine piece of software? Why was the project abandoned by the devopers then? No, Clod was a drama and still is, FM is way off, AI is a laugh, and not to speak about campaigns. 

And therefore IL-2 BOS is great news for WWII combat flight sims scene. 

[Rama]

Please, you can discuss the pro and con of CloD in the free forum or in the forum about other 1C games.

This is really not the place for this.

[ush]

 (you do realise that early access is not to bring some fun to the devs, don't you?)

 

 

No, its was to bring in money, but had you told people that the extra 40 dollars for premium early access would only turn out to be around 6 days extra worth of access mid week, most people would not have bught it

 

And I suspect that you knew the limited nature of what you were selling at the time

[HR_Grainovich]

I do not agree at all with the 24x3 access... who can fly those days!

Ok 777, the new IL2Sturmovik simulator is yours, ok, but the 90$ are mine!

I mean:

777 said to me: "Ok guy , pay now 90$ and you will have early access to beta... but! you only can test it 24x3 by a lot of technical reasons."

Ok, no problem, I can decide to buy or not, but that is MY decision, not yours, you never said to us that the access will be 24x3.

If 777 had told us this feature before the buy we can decide buy it or not, probably I had bought it too, I want to support this simulator, sure!!, I want to fly this simulator, but in this way I'm feeling very tricked.

[Rjel]

I don't buy the argument that the the limited middle of the week early access makes it impossible to fly at all. Currently I'm working between 10 and 11 hours days, 5 to 6 days a weeks. On my feet most of it. I have a family too. Other outside activities. I can squeeze an hour or two in those three nights a week I think. Maybe I'll do little more than just tool around alone. I might even get lucky enough to find something that might aid in BoS' development. If I do I'm going to feel pretty damn happy about it. Maybe I am finally becoming a the glass is half full kinda guy because life is just too short to be upset about little things like this.

[HagarTheHorrible]

I think if there is a problem with this

 

It is because the developers considered what THEY wanted from the early access.

 

What the Gold founders recieved was not really considered outside of that condition except in as much as it fullfilled the contract.

 

That might sound harsh and it's not meant too,  I just have a mental picture of the developers sitting around the office having a Monday morning development meeting and going "Right, what do we want/need from the early access Alpha".  They then proceed to discuss what they hope to get out of it and how they can best proceed to get the feedback required then, in an almost absent minded afterthough, somebody pipes up "what about the Gold founders, what do we do with them ?"

 

As good as communication has been from the developers I think they could have prepared the groundwork a little better or discussed the reasoning behind it more fully in the Founders section.  Having a chat goes a long, long way towards soothing ruffled feathers and I think they should have been better prepared for some of the angst.

[Volkoff]

Getting back to the video, I always comment on the great job the team is doing on stuff like 3D models or how convincing the feel for flight seems, but I should not take sound for granted. Valery Kornilov is doing a really great job of creating a rich and unique sound environment for IL2 BOS. The IL2, like all of the IL2 BOS rides I have heard so far, sounds great.  MJ

Edited October 26, 2013 by =69.GIAP=MIKHA

[BigMotor]

Stalingrad,1942. Where men were men and women were women, the greatest generation.

 

The contrast and irony in this thread is beyond belief.

[=LD=Hethwill]

Not pulling my strings, but from my experience I actually thought we would have pre-scheduled test sessions. ( wouldn't be the first nor the last project to do that )

 

Could name a dozen projects of digital entertainment that did that with advance pay for founding aka. funding.

 

Both are right, the ones that were expecting more and the ones that are happy for now. It doesn't change the fact that the Development and Management team are intent on making sure everything is right RIGHT.

 

I pay them to fund this project and to be able to go into a Alpha stage to help as much as i can and participate in the "development".

 

The other 50 dollars was the price of the game itself upon release. A bonus price for my early support of the "cause".

 

I'd cry and whine if I missed those extra 40 dollars to put food in the plate of my child...

 

I'll have enough time to test, play and see the further development of Il2: BoS first hand because hell yeah, I pay for that privilege.

 

Have fun watching the videos while we make them, 3 times a week... for a start.

[dburne]

From my perspective it boils down to this:

Those that those days are not good for , are disappointed.

Those that can get some flying time in those days, are not much disappointed.

BOTH sides have some, that are really going over the top. BOTH sides have some that degenerate others.

Now if all could somehow meet each other in the middle, this thread would not be so bad...

[Recon]

Guys,

 

First, please knock off the personal insults.

 

Second, to those that understand our approach to development we appreciate it. To those that are not happy we will need to restrict access some until we are able to support 24/7 access all I can say is please be patient and be aware that this is for everyone's benefit. Why you ask? Because...

 

1. This genre can't afford another CLOD disaster.

2. 1C doesn't want another CLOD disaster.

3. 777 has never had a CLOD disaster and doesn't want to start. Managing ROF development was hard enough.

4. This genre needs new blood and new products that are not 7 years between releases.

 

So, what you get is a calculated, closely managed early access program that will increase the access over time as important features and support systems are made ready and proven to work. All the while our customers can play, compare notes, alert us to bugs they experienced when they played.

 

This is the only way we can accomplish the four points above responsibly. You guys should be happy we take this process so seriously and even bothered with an early-access program of any sort. This whole project was a big risk for us either way. We don't take the responsibility lightly.

 

Our experience and successes and set-backs with ROF have given us good insight in how to manage this. Please trust we are doing what we think is best for all involved. The goal being everyone gets their money's worth in the end. 

 

Jason

 

 

I can understand your business reason, but my beef with this is how late this information is in arriving to the customer.  There was no mentioned of 'when you buy your premium for early access we will be limiting that access to a few days during the week only'.  This is coming at the 11th hour before a release.  I had no idea 'early access' meant 'limited access'.  Honestly, I would have not ordered the 'premium' to get this early access had I known it was going to be limited.  So the agreement in my opinion has been compromised.

 

When you work with a customer, and you change the criteria after they have purchased your product, you should expect some response. 

From my perspective it boils down to this:

Those that those days are not good for , are disappointed.

Those that can get some flying time in those days, are not much disappointed.

BOTH sides have some, that are really going over the top. BOTH sides have some that degenerate others.

Now if all could somehow meet each other in the middle, this thread would not be so bad...

 

It's rather simple isn't it - provide access to those that paid for it and drop this limitation because not everyone knew this was the way it would be run when first advertised.

 

I typically fly weekend nights after my kids are in bed.  I have a very busy week schedule.  I had no idea my $89 was going toward a product I paid extra for to (1) support BOS and (2) have this early access restrictions .   At this rate, I'll hardly be able to take a part in what I was initial was excited about, but now I'm disappointed about.  I don't see how setting wrong expectations up front is going to help give people a good experience and want us to go out and 'spread the BOS gospel' as the developer diary suggests.

Edited October 26, 2013 by AKA_Recon

[dburne]

 

 

I typically fly weekend nights after my kids are in bed.  I have a very busy week schedule.  I had no idea my $89 was going toward a product I paid extra for to (1) support BOS and (2) have this early access restrictions .   At this rate, I'll hardly be able to take a part in what I was initial was excited about, but now I'm disappointed about.  I don't see how setting wrong expectations up front is going to help give people a good experience and want us to go out and 'spread the BOS gospel' as the developer diary suggests.

 

I can certainly relate, I will not either as my work requires me to travel during the week, so I am not available on those days...

I have expressed my disappointment more than once in this thread, just wish everyone to remain civil in the discord...

[smink1701]

looked at the vid again and paused on the gun... there's writing engraved on the top.  Very cool.

[Recon]

Yes, I believe I've been civil as well, I've voiced my opposition to something that was previously unpublished that effects what package I paid for.  Seems rather normal to me  

 

I did think after reading Jason's response a few times:

 

Cliffs of Dover failed for a bazillion other reasons that have nothing to do with Battle of Stalingrad early release - in particular, making early access limited to Tuesday through Thursday ?  

 

Very confused here, is this some sort of unwritten issue surfacing ?  I haven't related Battle of Stalingrad to Cliffs of Dover.  Honestly, if there was anywhere that would have this sort of concern, it would probably be with DCS WW2  

Edited October 26, 2013 by AKA_Recon

[Roast]

Stalingrad,1942. Where men were men and women were women, the greatest generation.

 

The contrast and irony in this thread is beyond belief.

[SYN_Haashashin]

Please all should read August 9th dev diary, question 3. Its very clear this limited access was a possibility. Just tired of people mad about "they didnt say this or that" Well guess what. They kinda did.

That said, I feel the pain of those that wont be able to fly weekdays, but can I ask you guys something??, will you feel my pain when those days change to weekend days and I cant allmost fly??.

Edited October 26, 2013 by SYN_Haashashin

[Uufflakke]

That said, I feel the pain of those that wont be able to fly weekdays, but I ask you something, will you feel my pain when those days change to weekend days and I cant allmost fly??.

 

Please don't ask something like that.

Then the limited access during weekend discussion goes on for 10 more pages.

And back again to the limited access during weekdays discussion.

 

We are in a loop.    

[SYN_Haashashin]

Good point uufflakke, didnt think it that way, but I dont mind not flying one or two weeks cus the days are not avaliable to me so I wont make such a big deal when weekends are the available days. I would just be happy if someone says it will feel my pain for not beeing able to fly, as I know my girlfriend wont hahahaha (not about a flysim that is)

 

Ok, Im out of forums, the people im with are starting to look wierd at me

 

P.S. By the way Im feeling generous so next week I will send away a premium order to a lucky one. Stay tuned.

Edited October 26, 2013 by SYN_Haashashin

[dburne]

Not sure I understand that one either Recon, I just took it with a grain of salt.

 

Let's just hope these limited Tues-Thurs days at the outset, does not remain that limited for very long and we can all then enjoy the early access.

[Zak]

looked at the vid again and paused on the gun... there's writing engraved on the top.  Very cool.

You liked it? Nice, I'll try to get a screenshot of it this ShKAS then :3

[Uufflakke]

Reflection is also nicely done.

 

[RFG_Hisl]

I paused on the gun too. Look at these details. As smink1701 before said: The gravure of the sheet metal.

 

Edited October 26, 2013 by Hisl

[Mysticpuma]

To me early access is early access, and that's what we are getting. I think the choice of days is odd, as I would expect that reports from Beta testing would help to compile bug reports to help with fixes. That is the main thing I don't understand as surely Friday to Sunday would have a lot more players online and more useful feedback generated?

 

Thanks for the update, looking forward to playing it and helping out by finding bugs before the full release

 

Cool idea. Cheers, MP

[Pierre64]

The real stuff:

[whatnot]

As good as communication has been from the developers I think they could have prepared the groundwork a little better or discussed the reasoning behind it more fully in the Founders section.  Having a chat goes a long, long way towards soothing ruffled feathers and I think they should have been better prepared for some of the angst.

This is what I tried to say and ask too in my earlier post, but didn't get a response. If we would have received reasoning that would have made us understand why the limited access is a necessity and not a dev convenience, the outrcy would have gathered a lot less momentum.

 

We got some one-liners about the 'why' but I, despite being an IT guy, don't understand the showstopper why it's just not possible to do 24x7. I wouldn't have even commented anything, but the beautiful vid, if I would have understood why such bad news are delivered in the eleventh hour.

 

But I'll let this go now on my part and hope that I'll get my hands on the early access eventually. And despite the latest change, really looking forwards to fly this baby!

[=FI=Blue2]

...we believe that our community is united in wanting this product to be a success and it is full of considerate, amenable, educated and patient people.   

 

A very noble, gracious statement there, Loft - especially the first and last adjectives!  Have to admit I actually chuckled a little bit when I first read it early yesterday.  However my guess is that like many of us who've been around this community a while, you guys were probably a little bit saddened, but also not really very surprised by all the drama on this thread.  If it actually DID surprise you, I would just encourage you to relax.  Conflicting evidence aside, I think your statement is still true for the most part.  I think there's a vast "silent majority" who just don't spend much time riveted to these forums, or posting on them.  Most that I know, for instance, are quietly and patiently sitting back in great anticipation of what we hope and believe to be coming one day soon with BOS.  Thankfully there's never a shortage of other things we can do with our free time as we wait, even including **gasp** several older, but terrific sims still out there.

 

The IL-2 looks and sounds terrific, just like the other planes.  Ditto to others' comments about the outstanding sounds and other effects we're seeing too (LOVE that ShKAS).  It's all looking pretty stellar so far!  Thank you for the early access.  I look forward to squeezing in a little time with it if and when I can, and hopefully contributing a little in that way as you work toward the "beta" and beyond.  Glad to see you guys planning smartly & avoiding weekend server emergencies, if that's part of the 3 day access strategy.  I'm sure many of your team work longer than a 5 day week, but in any case, everyone needs some time to rest and recoup.  Anyway 3 cheers for all the work so far, and keep it up! 

[=BKHZ=Furbs]

I understand the surprise and disappointment at the news for some, for some its worse than others, i get it.

What i don't understand is the threat of cancelling their pre-order, to go from limited access to a sim they must of been wanting to try, to having to wait 6 months with zero access doesn't make any sense to me.

 

Unless its just the frustration talking.

[dburne]

 

 

Unless its just the frustration talking.

 

I suspect that is 99% of it...

[theOden]

..What i don't understand is the threat of cancelling their pre-order ..

Haven't seen any of those but anyhow.

To me there will be a continious "what else have they not told me" and to be honest, they previous high regard I had to this team just went down the basement to never be seen again.

We do talk different languages, living in snowland november usually brings snow - thats not Fall, that's snow fall and to me equals winter. Add to this that I will need to ask someone else when I'm allowed to fly, use a product I payed for? Thank you but that's the prime for me leaving Steam and such cattle services.

I've tried to stay silent and not comment on things I find troublesome but this last one was one straw too many and looking at this thread, I guess it was more then correct decision to stay silent all these weeks.

[Jason_Williams]

Yes, I believe I've been civil as well, I've voiced my opposition to something that was previously unpublished that effects what package I paid for.  Seems rather normal to me  

 

I did think after reading Jason's response a few times:

 

Cliffs of Dover failed for a bazillion other reasons that have nothing to do with Battle of Stalingrad early release - in particular, making early access limited to Tuesday through Thursday ?  

 

Very confused here, is this some sort of unwritten issue surfacing ?  I haven't related Battle of Stalingrad to Cliffs of Dover.  Honestly, if there was anywhere that would have this sort of concern, it would probably be with DCS WW2  

 

Recon,

 

You seriously need to stop. All of this trying to parse and analyze my words is getting tiresome. 

 

1. The EULA everyone agreed to when they signed up, gives us the authority to do what we are doing. We made it very flexible so we could handle the program  in whatever way we deemed necessary to meet the needs of the development process. This announcement is not last minute and we have been nothing but communicative about what we are doing at every step. We made the decision about how to exactly handle the roll-out of the program not long ago and once the team finalized the plan we immediately told you what it entailed. Nothing has been kept from anyone for any serious length of time.

 

2.  Fort he last time, my referencing of CLOD is a general statement that we do not wish to over-promise and under-deliver at release which is what happened with CLOD. It's very simple. Any other attempt to twist my words into any other critique of CLOD then or now is bogus.

 

Now, again, we listen to our customers, we know some of you don't like the current access schedule and it won't be this way forever. But right now that is what we are going to do which we feel is the responsible approach to such a complicated piece of software. Please see my previous comments and Loft's on why it is this way for now. 

 

Jason

[III/JG53Frankyboy]

Getting back to the video, .......J

is it final how far the Il2 pilot is able to lean out during flight with the opened canopy ?

[=BKHZ=Furbs]

Haven't seen any of those but anyhow.

To me there will be a continious "what else have they not told me" and to be honest, they previous high regard I had to this team just went down the basement to never be seen again.

We do talk different languages, living in snowland november usually brings snow - thats not Fall, that's snow fall and to me equals winter. Add to this that I will need to ask someone else when I'm allowed to fly, use a product I payed for? Thank you but that's the prime for me leaving Steam and such cattle services.

I've tried to stay silent and not comment on things I find troublesome but this last one was one straw too many and looking at this thread, I guess it was more then correct decision to stay silent all these weeks.

 

 

 

 

Oden, ive seen you around forums for quite a while and i respect your opinion, but on this i think your over reacting a fair bit, do you think the devs have held back the access? you have seen the weekly updates and live streams, you must like me have got a general idea of where we are in the development of BOS, this is where we are right now, about ready for a slow roll out of access but with most of the sim still to be made and polished.

 

The devs are trying their best to keep us happy and at the same time keep everything on track and under control for the sims release in 6 months, its a tough order, and its not going to make everyone 100% happy 100% of the time, they have not decided this on a whim, they would of known the reaction it was going to get from a number of customers, a tough call but this has been decided to be the best way forward to everyone getting the best sim they can get at release.

 

Again, i respect your opinion Oden and i hope you think about it some more and maybe from the devs view point as well.

 

I hope you get back on board to help the testing to your best ability, your input is welcome and needed.

 

S!

Edited October 26, 2013 by =BKHZ=Furbs

[thx1138]

Well I expected the 15th, so a few days earlier are Ok too. Since I'm retired the day it comes out is no big deal as I KNOW it is to others. Even if I couldn't make the 12th, I'm a patient guy and would not be upset, but that's just me. Just remember people, this is a GAME and as such we take it seriously but in the context of real life to me not so much.

 

I know almost ALL of us support it because in the game world flight sim's are not as popular as other games, that's the real reason I support 777 they proved themselves with ROF !. They do seem to be on top of the flight sim world right now. One of these days I need to hop into DCS world and support that too. Hell I even got CloD and was kinda bummed, but oh well, at least I tried... All of these beat MS flight sim for the most part, that one was good early on but does not do it for me anymore.

 

I still take a drive in Il2 1946 but all the mod's turned me off for the most part, it just got to be too much fooling around for me.

 

Allan

[Uufflakke]

Despite the negativity floating around now, I just met some BoS members who are happy with this Friday's Update and the early access.

 

 

 

 

I hope it is something to cheer you guys up a bit.

 

My Gawd...

[=BKHZ=Furbs]

Despite the negativity floating around now, I just met some BoS members who are happy with this Friday's Update and the early access.

 

 

 

 

I hope it is something to cheer you guys up a bit.

 

My Gawd...

 

 

Where did you get that vid of me and Bongo from? i thought i had it set to private!

Edited October 26, 2013 by =BKHZ=Furbs