DD today?

[unreasonable]

Does anyone else experience that with successive DDs, the rush gets shorter each time and the craving returns faster?   Maybe the last one or two were just cut more than usual...

[Trooper117]

Soviet P-47's, waste of time... there is no recorded air combat with these aircraft.

While we in the west had high praise for the Jug, the Russians classed them as to heavy to be of any use as a fighter.

Most were shipped off to the Northern Fleet naval air force and it is believed they were used for a handful of shipping strikes.

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

It is not a very good Fighter below 7000m. And it has a Payload that makes it perfect Strike Aircraft. 

[Legioneod]

14 minutes ago, 6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann said:

It is not a very good Fighter below 7000m. And it has a Payload that makes it perfect Strike Aircraft. 

Not exactly true, it's a more than capable fighter down low (many combat reports prove this) but above 10,000 ft is where it starts to shine. I've read reports about why the russians hated it so much, they didn't know how to use it, they were flying it wrong.

 

Russians love turn fighting and this was one of the main reasons for them hating the Jug yet loving aircraft like the P-39. If the Russians can't turn in it then it's not a fighter, at least that's what I gather from reports.

Edited August 26, 2018 by Legioneod

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

Well, the Fighter often had the Job of closely protecting the Sturmoviks and operate with Cloud Levels of 800 to 1600m. In that Environment a Fighter needs to be able to fight in Close Quarters. 

The Fast but Oversized and Underpowered  Fighters so successful in the West simply were too slow and sluggish for that Job. Drag and Bag doesn't work when the Enemy will just chase for about 3 Seconds, then turn around and kill the Attackers. 

The Russians were not too stupid to know how to fly it, but it simply didn't fit in the Eastern Front Style of Flying.

 

An Encounter would always have meant the P-47s BnZing the 109s attacking the Sturmos, taking about 2 Minutes for each run, while the 109s happily dance with the Sturmos, taking them out without real Challenge. If the P-47s engeage aggressively the P-47s would loose, and if the fought defensively they would fail their Escort Task. 

[Legioneod]

4 minutes ago, 6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann said:

Well, the Fighter often had the Job of closely protecting the Sturmoviks and operate with Cloud Levels of 800 to 1600m. In that Environment a Fighter needs to be able to fight in Close Quarters. 

The Fast but Oversized and Underpowered  Fighters so successful in the West simply were too slow and sluggish for that Job. Drag and Bag doesn't work when the Enemy will just chase for about 3 Seconds, then turn around and kill the Attackers. 

The Russians were not too stupid to know how to fly it, but it simply didn't fit in the Eastern Front Style of Flying.

 

An Encounter would always have meant the P-47s BnZing the 109s attacking the Sturmos, taking about 2 Minutes for each run, while the 109s happily dance with the Sturmos, taking them out without real Challenge. If the P-47s engeage aggressively the P-47s would loose, and if the fought defensively they would fail their Escort Task. 

Thats another thing I never understood about how the russians used the P-47, why use them for escort when they could carry a greater bomb load than the aircraft they were escorting? They were also faster and wouldn't be limited to sticking with the il2s. If the russians actually used them in the roles they excelled at (high alt escort or low alt mud moving) then they would have had much more success with the P-47.

 

In the west they used them at all altitudes with great success, not much reason imo that they were used so poorly in the east.

[-TBC-AeroAce]

P47 was the best performing fighter for the Soviets but Stalin didn't like the fact it was manufactured in the west, so he gulaged every one with that knowledge and destroyed all the evidence. 

[Legioneod]

2 minutes ago, AeroAce said:

P47 was the best performing fighter for the Soviets but Stalin didn't like the fact it was manufactured in the west, so he gulaged every one with that knowledge and destroyed all the evidence. 

Of course, it all makes sense now. This is the only plausible explanation on what could have happened.

Edited August 26, 2018 by Legioneod

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

Because it was almost completely unarmored. To convert the P-47 to a useful Role in the East it would have made Sense to remove the turbo and replace the Weight with a ton of Armor. But for that is far too valuable of an Aircraft still. 

The Il-2, although it may not seem so ingame. was very survivable against most HE 20mm and Rifle Caliber AA. In the P-47 the Pilot Mortality would have been Catastrophic. 

[Legioneod]

1 minute ago, 6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann said:

Because it was almost completely unarmored. To convert the P-47 to a useful Role in the East it would have made Sense to remove the turbo and replace the Weight with a ton of Armor. But for that is far too valuable of an Aircraft still. 

The Il-2, although it may not seem so ingame. was very survivable against most HE 20mm and Rifle Caliber AA. In the P-47 the Pilot Mortality would have been Catastrophic. 

They didn't make this excuse in the west. It turned into one of the best mud movers the allies had and racked up an incredible record with a huge amount of sorties, it also had a rather low loss rate of .07%.

[Ghost666]

7 hours ago, Trooper117 said:

Soviet P-47's, waste of time... there is no recorded air combat with these aircraft.

While we in the west had high praise for the Jug, the Russians classed them as to heavy to be of any use as a fighter.

Most were shipped off to the Northern Fleet naval air force and it is believed they were used for a handful of shipping strikes.

Just give me one and I will fly it in combat and made a recording! LOL?

[klebor]

20 hours ago, 6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann said:

Because it was almost completely unarmored. To convert the P-47 to a useful Role in the East it would have made Sense to remove the turbo and replace the Weight with a ton of Armor. But for that is far too valuable of an Aircraft still. 

The Il-2, although it may not seem so ingame. was very survivable against most HE 20mm and Rifle Caliber AA. In the P-47 the Pilot Mortality would have been Catastrophic. 

 

US Tactical Air Command conducted research during the Vietnam War to determine what factors are most important from the point of view of aircraft survivability in CAS missions.

It turned out the speed, manuverability and small size are the most important. Armor surprisingly proved to be far less effective.

 

That's why slow, heavy, armored IL-2 suffered the biggest combat losses in whole history of military aviation, during the victorious war. 

Fast and agile Thunderbotls or FW 190F, even in CAS missions, suffered relatively small loses; delivering a lot more ordinance to the enemy in every mission than IL-2.

Edited August 27, 2018 by sereme1

[7.GShAP/Silas]

1 hour ago, sereme1 said:

US Tactical Air Command conducted research during the Vietnam War to determine what factors are most important from the point of view of aircraft survivability in CAS missions.

It turned out the speed, manuverability and small size are the most important. Armor surprisingly proved to be far less effective.

 

I don't disagree that speed, maneuverability and size are key, I appreciated this first hand with friendly Tucanos.  But...

 

 

1 hour ago, sereme1 said:

That's why slow, heavy, armored IL-2 suffered the biggest combat losses in whole history of military aviation, during the victorious war. 

Fast and agile Thunderbotls or FW 190F, even in CAS missions, suffered relatively small loses; delivering a lot more ordinance to the enemy in every mission than IL-2.

 

 

So much of the P-47 combat record was derived on the western front in mid 1944 and later when they were flying against a shattered, depleted enemy, though.  It's like drawing conclusions on the M1 abrams tank from the gulf war when they fought cheap, inferior 'for-export-only' model T-72s that were not representative of their Soviet counterparts as reports from 1990's arms fairs later discovered.  Of course it did nothing to dissipate the popular myths which have persisted.

Edited August 27, 2018 by 7.GShAP/Silas

[Legioneod]

54 minutes ago, 7.GShAP/Silas said:

 

I don't disagree that speed, maneuverability and size are key, I appreciated this first hand with friendly Tucanos.  But...

 

 

 

 

So much of the P-47 combat record was derived on the western front in mid 1944 and later when they were flying against a shattered, depleted enemy, though.  It's like drawing conclusions on the M1 abrams tank from the gulf war when they fought cheap, inferior 'for-export-only' model T-72s that were not representative of their Soviet counterparts as reports from 1990's arms fairs later discovered.  Of course it did nothing to dissipate the popular myths which have persisted.

P-47 got most of their air to air victories in 43-44, the enemy was very much still alive and kicking. The most dangerous thing for the P-47 was ground fire not enemy aircraft, yet even still they only lost .07% per sortie and they flew over 400,000 sorties. 

 

Comparing the P-47 to the Abrams fighting inferior equipment isn't really accurate, P-47s were fighting the latest German aircraft the only real inferior thing was the German pilots, yet in 43-early 44 the pilots were still of good quality.

[klebor]

3 hours ago, 7.GShAP/Silas said:

So much of the P-47 combat record was derived on the western front in mid 1944 and later when they were flying against a shattered, depleted enemy, though. 

 

Luftwaffe on the eastern front was scattered, small and lacked people and equipement.

Since the summer 1943 Luftwaffe, when it comes to fighters, was far stronger on the western front, more numerous, better trained, better equiped etc. because the enemy was more demanding. Western front and defence of the sky over the Reisch was priority for Luftwaffe.

Edited August 27, 2018 by sereme1

[CountZero]

maybe display of skins for p-47 in next DD

 

could we expect any RAF skins for it? one two Russian maybe? any Brazilian skins ? what other exept USA ? 

[Legioneod]

58 minutes ago, 77.CountZero said:

maybe display of skins for p-47 in next DD

 

could we expect any RAF skins for it? one two Russian maybe? any Brazilian skins ? what other exept USA ? 

I'm sure we will see mostly USA with a few RAF and Brazilian in the mix, unlikely to see russian as they only received a small amount of D-28s.

[Diggun]

I was never a fan of p47's in RAF colours.... Then i saw this.... How badass is that?!

[CanadaOne]

11 minutes ago, Diggun said:

I was never a fan of p47's in RAF colours.... Then i saw this.... How badass is that?!

 

 

Oh yeah. That works.

[unreasonable]

I would find that much more convincing with a white/aluminium stripe rather than red, which I think is just wrong.

 

 

[Diggun]

Just plane wrong.... Amirite? 

 

I'll get my coat... 

[unreasonable]

Collect your P-45 from personnel on your way out.  

[ZachariasX]

29 minutes ago, unreasonable said:

I would find that much more convincing with a white/aluminium stripe rather than red, which I think is just wrong.

You can see how far off the red tone is when you do grayscale conversion:

 

Red is way too dark. It has to be silver/white.

[unreasonable]

It could also be yellow - but I would be surprised if an RAF officer would fly a plane with a yellow stripe.  Much too much of an easy target - for jokes, especially when you are in an OTU. 

[Trooper117]

Sorry, I think it looks bloody awful... no matter what colour stripe you care to put on it.

[unreasonable]

Black is a good base colour for a P-47: it is slimming.

[HBPencil]

1 hour ago, Diggun said:

I was never a fan of p47's in RAF colours.... Then i saw this.... How badass is that?!

A cool scheme indeed (I skinned it in the old game back in the day) but I feel the Jug still looks mean in a well weathered SEAC paint job, as in this colour film... also some good colour references for skinners:
https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/1060025281

[Notclear]

 

37 minutes ago, Trooper117 said:

Sorry, I think it looks bloody awful... no matter what colour stripe you care to put on it. 

 

For the majority of people P47 is Too Big and Too Heavy

 

For others who love it, it's just Sweet'n Hot

 

For haters it stay a Big Ass Bird

[Trooper117]

Not a 'hater' at all... I like the Jug.

I just don't like that skin... simples.

[Diggun]

The big question is, will the ability to abandon the controls and run around inside the fuselage to evade enemy fire be modeled?

[ST_ami7b5]

1 hour ago, Trooper117 said:

Not a 'hater' at all... I like the Jug.

I just don't like that skin... simples.

Not hater at all, but I don't like the Jug

[Zooropa_Fly]

Jugs are great

[Thad]

Salutations,

 

Like, don't like. We have freedom of choice. 

 

Others opinions will not sway me either way (except for flight test reports) concerning any craft. I will fly the planes I like and not fly the ones I don't. Others are obviously very free to do likewise.

 

Keep em flying pilots! 

[Diggun]

That was a quick four days maintenance.

 

Them red shoes always get me excited though....

[Voidhunger]

1 minute ago, Diggun said:

That was a quick four days maintenance.

 

Them red shoes always get me excited though....

 

Yeah I started F5 facebook page, if there is something

[THERION]

I think besides the La5 it is the jug I love the most - already did in IL1946 too. I really can't wait to fly her again.

It's like the first love you meet again after many years and she's still amazing... ?

[Legioneod]

8 hours ago, Diggun said:

I was never a fan of p47's in RAF colours.... Then i saw this.... How badass is that?!

It's alright, American Jugs are still my favorite, they're much prettier?

 

Spoiler

 

 

[BladeMeister]

13 hours ago, Trooper117 said:

Sorry, I think it looks bloody awful... no matter what colour stripe you care to put on it.

 

Trooper, I am surprised at your in sensitiveness. She is a BBW!  Big Beautiful Workhorse! With 8 Bad Ass 50 cals!?

 

S!Blade<><

[Garven]

Some of the nose art on American planes in WW2 compared to what you see today reminds me of a quote from Apocalypse Now.

[Danziger]

9 minutes ago, Garven_Dreis said:

Some of the nose art on American planes in WW2 compared to what you see today reminds me of a quote from Apocalypse Now.

Charlie don't surf?