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Yak can keep Up

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The YAK can keep up in any situation , diving , rolling , High G rolls and pull outs . please fix your YAKs.

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The 109can keep up in any situation , diving , rolling , High G rolls and pull outs . please fix your 109s.

 

Fixed it for you!

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I just landed my FW 190 on the moon, please fix! no I don't have any data to back this up.

 

If you are going to complain about a plane, throw in some proof of the problems, there are already a hundred un-backed topics out there whining about the FM, not saying it's right, I'm just saying that you're not helping.

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Learn to fly it.

I think he meant: fly a yak yourself and you'll find out that that your view is incorrect and very subjective.

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I can get shot down just as good in my yak as i can in a 109.... fix this mess devs geez....

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The YAK can keep up in any situation

 

Nope.

 

diving

 

Nope. If a Yak can keep up/catch you in a dive in the Bf 109/Fw 190, you are diving too steep.

 

rolling

 

Sure, the Yak slightly outrolls the Bf 109, what's wrong with that? It can't roll with the Fw 190 by a long shot though.

 

 

High G rolls and pull outs

 

Not against Fw 190, which finally has the awesome high speed handling it should have, but against a 109 it propably can keep up. You might have a point there, I'll have to check further.

 

 

please fix your YAKs.

 

There are fixes that need to be done to the Yak. Most seriously its behavior with flaps lowered.

 

Nothing you said really points out any important flaw with the Yak though.

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I know how to fly it.  I also have no trouble killing it when I'm in a 109.

 

I know that. ;) [Edited]

Edited by Bearcat
PM inbound..

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I know that. ;) [Edited]

 

I expect to really kick [Edited] when they add the Spad to BoS...

Edited by Bearcat
Language

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It can't keep up with the 109 in a spiral climb at 300km.

 

I don't think anything could keep up at that altitude.  :happy:

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Playing Normal, or Expert? In Normal, I learned I could to effing insane maneuvers, insane turns, and pull out easily. However in expert, I can't stress my aircraft as much, I lose energy quicker, and especially can't catch up to those 109unners. This is especially true for the Yak.

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LOL ..........Have a good weekend gents  .

Get out into the fresh for abit .

Edited by Con
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Nope. If a Yak can keep up/catch you in a dive in the Bf 109/Fw 190, you are diving too steep.

 

I've heard this before, so what is the correct way to dive and run away from a Yak? I always just do a vertical dive till I reach about 700-800 kph before leveling out thinking all that speed would help me get away, but it doesn't seem to work.

 

If a shallower dive is better I'd appreciate a detailed explanation on what I should do to run away and reasoning please :), because I don't understand why steeper wouldn't be the best.

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I've heard this before, so what is the correct way to dive and run away from a Yak? I always just do a vertical dive till I reach about 700-800 kph before leveling out thinking all that speed would help me get away, but it doesn't seem to work.

 

If a shallower dive is better I'd appreciate a detailed explanation on what I should do to run away and reasoning please :), because I don't understand why steeper wouldn't be the best.

I was flying the Yak today for a bit. Found a 190 which decided to go tree top to get away. I pounced on him at my choice catching up within 30 seconds, firing, pulling up and coming back around like it was a IL2. I couldn't do any damage, but annoyed him to bits. Felt actually sorry for the guy.

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I've heard this before, so what is the correct way to dive and run away from a Yak? I always just do a vertical dive till I reach about 700-800 kph before leveling out thinking all that speed would help me get away, but it doesn't seem to work.

 

If a shallower dive is better I'd appreciate a detailed explanation on what I should do to run away and reasoning please :), because I don't understand why steeper wouldn't be the best.

Shallower dive is better because the the acceleration more or less vertically probably won't be enough to counter that he can just cut the corner at a slightly slower speed and catch you in the angles. The difference can be so slight as to not be noticeable in combat.

 

The Yak-1 Series 69 is no slouch and while the German fighters are still better in a dive...it's not a massive difference.

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Nope.

 

 

Nope. If a Yak can keep up/catch you in a dive in the Bf 109/Fw 190, you are diving too steep.

 

 

Sure, the Yak slightly outrolls the Bf 109, what's wrong with that? It can't roll with the Fw 190 by a long shot though.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ah ... is that what it is then??  It's because we're diving too steeply.  I was always concerned that maybe it was because the angle was too shallow but maybe that's just a perception thing.  Of course, because the Yak and the La-5 can accelerate much more quickly than a 190 you may find you don't get to dive very far but who knows.

 

Once upon a time you just had to dive away.  Now it's all about the critical dive angle.   Frankly, It's all a bit make-believe at this point isn't it.

 

Same as roll-rates.  The 190 is a bit quicker than the Yak but not by much and certainly not enough to confer any tactical advantage.  At one stage in the game you could wrong-foot a Yak with a roll but not now.  And the La-5 which wasn't much more than a LaGG-3 with a radial on the front (at the time of the BoS), rolls just as well as a 190 and possibly even better.  Now if you read Gordon and Khazanov they'll tell you it had 'potential' at this stage of the War but it certainly didn't have the flight characteristics of a 190 and if anything was a real handful but hey, I'm sure there's another 'bs' answer to explain that one away as well.

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How about you create a mission and perform the repeatable tests with tracks to show your work?

All I see is "I got shot down its wrong!" From both the jagdflieger and the filthy commies.

I would love to see some acceleration tests.

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So, if I dived vertically and pulled out at tree top height then continued in s straight line, I could be overtaken by a slower aircraft that cut the corner by entering a shallow dive that aims to intercept me at a point where I'd already leveled off and bled most of my excess energy?

 

Sounds reasonable enough.

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Ah ... is that what it is then??  It's because we're diving too steeply.  I was always concerned that maybe it was because the angle was too shallow but maybe that's just a perception thing.  Of course, because the Yak and the La-5 can accelerate much more quickly than a 190 you may find you don't get to dive very far but who knows.

 

Once upon a time you just had to dive away.  Now it's all about the critical dive angle.   Frankly, It's all a bit make-believe at this point isn't it.

 

Same as roll-rates.  The 190 is a bit quicker than the Yak but not by much and certainly not enough to confer any tactical advantage.  At one stage in the game you could wrong-foot a Yak with a roll but not now.  And the La-5 which wasn't much more than a LaGG-3 with a radial on the front (at the time of the BoS), rolls just as well as a 190 and possibly even better.  Now if you read Gordon and Khazanov they'll tell you it had 'potential' at this stage of the War but it certainly didn't have the flight characteristics of a 190 and if anything was a real handful but hey, I'm sure there's another 'bs' answer to explain that one away as well.

 

+1

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So, if I dived vertically and pulled out at tree top height then continued in s straight line, I could be overtaken by a slower aircraft that cut the corner by entering a shallow dive that aims to intercept me at a point where I'd already leveled off and bled most of my excess energy?

 

Sounds reasonable enough.

Honestly, it should come as a surprise to noone.

 

I've been using this tactic since the days of European Air War back in the '90s, where the AI often used near vertical dives as a defensive maneuver.

 

That's part of the reason for the split-S and dive maneuver. Not only do you avoid pulling negative Gs but you change your heading, so you're forcing your opponent to either follow you exactly (giving the advantage to the better diving plane) or use precious time and energy to make a 180 turn before he can start following you.

 

I repeat: People who just push their noses down into a vertical dive as a defensive maneuver are asking for it.

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Yesterday I had an LA5 chasing me in my 109F and was ever so slowly closing on me into a spiral climb at about 330kmh and I knew I was in trouble because he had a slight E advantage to start. A 109 came in from a head on to take him out and he did a hard barrel roll (I was watching him very closely) to evade and I thought I was saved. He then immediately pulled back in behind and proceeded to gain on me like nothing happened. Ok, it was in normal mode but hell, I am sure something is not right here.

 

I do however feel (even accept) the VVS planes are balanced slightly (of course I may be completely wrong) for reasons to make the game "fair" but something like that should not be possible.

 

I also accept that I only have about 2 years experience on these games and I still make rookie errors but stuff like this frustrates me because I don't know how to prevent it. I suppose, the harder I practice the luckier I get.

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. I suppose, the harder I practice the luckier I get.

 

THIS :)

 

I 'think' a lot of the complaints of being shot down by 'UFO's' can be put down to coming up against experienced pilots with a very good understanding of tactics and energy management,

 

A very thorough understanding of aerodynamics, situational awareness and limits of what is achievable with their aircraft  is one the attributes that the 'Experten' had, of the thousand of pilots involve in combat very few were Aces, even though very competent with exceedingly good training.

 

We as flight sim pilots make many mistakes and seem quick to blame FM rather than our own lack of competence or even perhaps heaven forbid a better 'trained' pilot ;)

 

I am however in favour of historical FM's perhaps something needs to be looked at with the seriously over performing 109F4 as proven in the many flight tests :biggrin:  :cool:

 

Cheers Dakpilot

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Has anyone done independent performance testing of each AC?  I must say I invested in BOS to fly the fw190 but after flying online I find it a bit of a disappointment.  I have been run down after diving to maximum speeds to ground level and a five minute chaise. I didn't think any thing (Russian) could catch up with a fw190 over such a extended chaise.  

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The YAK can keep up in any situation , diving , rolling , High G rolls and pull outs . please fix your YAKs.

 

fix you

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Has anyone done independent performance testing of each AC?  I must say I invested in BOS to fly the fw190 but after flying online I find it a bit of a disappointment.  I have been run down after diving to maximum speeds to ground level and a five minute chaise. I didn't think any thing (Russian) could catch up with a fw190 over such a extended chaise.  

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/forum/94-fm-discussion/

 

Cheers Dakpilot

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In my experience with the Yak, my go-to plane, flying MP in normal mode, the 109's/190 easily out-run me. Generally I can only catch one that is limping a little bit, or the pilot has made an error. There are some pilots out their that fly the crap out of the 109/190's, they usually get me due to my errors and their superior skills. Now, if I see one down low and I dive, occasionally I might pick-up enough speed to catch them but that is the exception rather than the rule. I have to agree with some of the other comments that pilot skill has a lot to due with success, and failure. I know in normal mode you can switch to CEM and wring out some more performance but it takes skill. Give credit where credit is due...if you get torched by a Yak, suck-it up and move on...

Edited by Gramps

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If a Yak can keep up/catch you in a dive in the Bf 109/Fw 190, you are diving too steep.

 

This.

 

If an Yak-1 is coming on you even with an energy advantage, you can cancel it with a simple shallow dive.

 

What i find really weird is more how the Yak-1 retain his energy in high speed level flight... I just can't believe it.

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The OP does not even say what it is the YAK can keep up with? He might be referring to a bowl of cherry trifle!! ;)

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Keep FMs as they are and even more people will go clod. Far more than 150 people at the same time yesterday spread over only 2 servers and a number of other servers with small playernumbers. Guess BOS can only dream of that.

I have been testing Clod the last days and it sooo much better than "other sims". Not just FM wise.

Edited by VSG1_Winger
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These threads all wind up the same. If someone thinks something is off, do the tests and come up with actual numbers that can be analysed.

 

Forsale tested the max speeds of all fighters in game and they very closely match the available test data.

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/16186-german-fighters-speed-testing-they-seem-pretty-darn-close/

 

 

and as to what could be achieved by a real ace in a Yak-1, well...

 

 

On 17 July 1942 during a dogfight with Bf.109s he became separated from his wingman Konstantin Figichov, and was jumped by a Rotte of Bf.109G-2s flown by the experte Feldwebel Hans Dammers and his wingman Unteroffizier Kurt Keiser (7./JG 52). Initially Pokryshkin dived to escape, but realizing that the heavier and faster Gustavs would catch him sooner, he performed a chandelle and a barrel roll later. This caused the Germans to overshoot, and then Pokryshkin shot down and killed Kurt Keiser at short range. Pokryshkin was attacked again by Dammers shortly afterwards, and his Yak-1 was damaged. But once more Pokryshkin performed a barrel roll, forced Dammers to slide forward, and then shot the German ace down.[2][3]

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Pokryshkin#1942

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Keep FMs as they are and even more people will go clod. Far more than 150 people at the same time yesterday spread over only 2 servers and a number of other servers with small playernumbers. Guess BOS can only dream of that.

I have been testing Clod the last days and it sooo much better than "other sims". Not just FM wise.

 

A fix for the Yak would be enough.

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These threads all wind up the same. If someone thinks something is off, do the tests and come up with actual numbers that can be analysed.

 

Forsale tested the max speeds of all fighters in game and they very closely match the available test data.

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/16186-german-fighters-speed-testing-they-seem-pretty-darn-close/

 

 

and as to what could be achieved by a real ace in a Yak-1, well...

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Pokryshkin#1942

Numbers for the Levelspeedss that are totally off have been postet by Celestiale. Sadly they arent even being commented on by the devs.

So are the numerous questions about intentions about increasing playercount in MP.

IMO those are the 2 big gamebraking issues that are just not being talked about by the devs and that frustrate people so they just move on.

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Numbers for the Levelspeedss that are totally off have been postet by Celestiale. Sadly they arent even being commented on by the devs.

So are the numerous questions about intentions about increasing playercount in MP.

IMO those are the 2 big gamebraking issues that are just not being talked about by the devs and that frustrate people so they just move on.

Celestial tested them and got his numbers, I tested and got a different set. So we pretty much cancel eachother out.

 

Now we need you and the other pilots to perform your own tests and post the methodology and tracks. If you want something changed do so god damned work for it instead of limply leaning on the work of others. Make a case so ironclad with the results of dozens of tests that the devs have to pay attention. The results of one or two tests are irrelevant.

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Numbers for the Levelspeedss that are totally off have been postet by Celestiale. Sadly they arent even being commented on by the devs.

So are the numerous questions about intentions about increasing playercount in MP.

IMO those are the 2 big gamebraking issues that are just not being talked about by the devs and that frustrate people so they just move on.

 

 

Yes, the COD FM always seemed pretty realistic to me.  Not perfect but pretty good in most respects.  The strengths and weaknesses of the various aircraft over there are plain to see so in that respect at least, COD is very good.

 

However, how many Spits have you managed to set on fire?  Not many I suspect. Sure, you can shoot them down but unlike the 109s, they hardly ever burn.  Some of the people over there even argue that historically, Spits didn't catch fire as much.  So, yeah ... unfortunately you get entrenched patch protection wherever you go.

Edited by Wulf

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Yak 1 ... alt 200m.. SHIFT+A...trim to 100%.... manual radiator 35/35 .. full power.. and look at speed.. 550 km/h nonstop without overheat problem or damage motor.. thats simple test.. 

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