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AvengerSeawolf

This is not right. point system in campaign

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 Well this point system is a bit wrong and  unjust IMO.
OK  one takes 30 points for take off , 60 points for completing the mission and another 30 points for landing ( so far so good)

 But hey  12 points for alight plane 18 points only for a medium ( and I think also a bomber !!  :huh:  :angry:  Give me a break they should be double.
 And then again we have the end of the mission where you  make it to the base and if the landing is not that good ( and I do not mean smashing the plane)

but damaging the propeller then you get the half points from all the mission :wacko: :wacko: ... then under this logic is better to  avoid landing press escape and just lose 30 points only from not landing.
 More logical  would be not to take the points of the landing if you do not land, and take the half points of the landing if you land not that good. and not half points of all the mission.

 I  think is a very simple thing that has to be fixed. Because hours of playing are ruined by getting half points if you do not land  correct.
You see points count to unlock all these extra stuff, so don;t make life harder than it already is. :angry:
Besides is a war simulator , shooting down planes and  completing missions , not a  " learn how to land or else" simulator.

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I think I've identified the problem you are having: 

 

You're expecting the SP campaign to have any semblance of substance.

 

Come play on The Eagle's Nest.

 

 Join our TS: ts3.thewetbandits.org to organize a flight and participate in completing one of the many objectives that our multiplayer dynamic mission has to offer.

 

S!

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I think I've identified the problem you are having: 

 

You're expecting the SP campaign to have any semblance of substance.

 

Come play on The Eagle's Nest.

 

 Join our TS: ts3.thewetbandits.org to organize a flight and participate in completing one of the many objectives that our multiplayer dynamic mission has to offer.

 

S!

 Problem is spending more hours to earn points to unlock the weapons, besides anything else.Will check out the server sometime, not a fan of multiplayer at the moment though.

Edited by AvengerSeawolf

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 Well this point system is a bit wrong and  unjust IMO.

OK  one takes 30 points for take off , 60 points for completing the mission and another 30 points for landing ( so far so good)

 But hey  12 points for alight plane 18 points only for a medium ( and I think also a bomber !!  :huh:  :angry:  Give me a break they should be double.

 And then again we have the end of the mission where you  make it to the base and if the landing is not that good ( and I do not mean smashing the plane)

but damaging the propeller then you get the half points from all the mission :wacko: :wacko: ... then under this logic is better to  avoid landing press escape and just lose 30 points only from not landing.

 More logical  would be not to take the points of the landing if you do not land, and take the half points of the landing if you land not that good. and not half points of all the mission.

 I  think is a very simple thing that has to be fixed. Because hours of playing are ruined by getting half points if you do not land  correct.

You see points count to unlock all these extra stuff, so don;t make life harder than it already is. :angry:

Besides is a war simulator , shooting down planes and  completing missions , not a  " learn how to land or else" simulator.

I have to disagree mate. Landing is" Surviving"  in a simulator. Damaging your plane is hurtin your "Team" in a simulator.

What do you want ? To be able to get Maximum Points, Re-Spawn and get maximum points again ? ...No landings ?

To me,that is gaming the game to get points at the expense of Simulation.

That's  one of the reasons I don't fly online much. Some guys have it down to a fine art (Re-Spawning) !

EDIT : I actually wish there were NO points awarded without a Landing, especially online. It might change some pilots behavior, I suspect !

The same for Single-Player. Every Sortie should be finished with a Landing and an Intact plane to get maximum Points.

In my humble opinion ! ~S~

Edited by jaydee

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I have to disagree mate. Landing is" Surviving"  in a simulator. Damaging your plane is hurtin your "Team" in a simulator.

What do you want ? To be able to get Maximum Points, Re-Spawn and get maximum points again ? ...No landings ?

To me,that is gaming the game to get points at the expense of Simulation.

That's  one of the reasons I don't fly online much. Some guys have it down to a fine art (Re-Spawning) !

EDIT : I actually wish there were NO points awarded without a Landing, especially online. It might change some pilots behavior, I suspect !

The same for Single-Player. Every Sortie should be finished with a Landing and an Intact plane to get maximum Points.

In my humble opinion ! ~S~

 

 

what I say is without landings you gett more points than with landing and let's say  damage only the propeller ( I do not mean to crash, if you crash you get noting of course), still you survived made it to the base and the damage is minor. So there is no logic to loose the half points. Half points is the problem not maximum or not. I also suggested if thre is so mych  issue with it then not count the points of landing though you have made one.

 So let's  resume you made it to the base you land the plane  with a broken propeller and still you get half points.. Half points  you also get if you pass the  exit point and then belly land in the middle of nowhere. , worlds appart between these two , however the game counts it as the same . That's wrong and better change.

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Welcome to BOS

 

I still haven't done most of my unlocks there are still locked away . The unlock system has driven most away  .

Concentrate on one aircraft only and set to auto pilot x2 and when at action point ...............fly yourself and auto pilot back to base land on auto . Its a terrible way to do things but it gets the silly job done  .

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Yeah maybe it's too harsh to remove half of your score if you prang the plane on landing, but one of the things I actually like about the campaign is how it puts survival and mission completion so far above anything else. That makes you think and fly realistic, quite a bit like the career mode in RoF. At least that's a good thing. But I think you're right about the scoring, bringing the plane back home when you're wounded and unable to pull enough of a flare to make a smooth landing should be a heroic achievement worthy of a bonus.

 

I have to admit I'm kind of hesitant to even discuss the details of the scoring system, because it feels a bit like giving legitimacy for a part of the simulator I really don't like. The punishment for bending a prop on landing should first and foremost be one less plane for the next mission or two, affecting your side's chances of winning - but that's the kind of thing that's not going to happen as long as the arbitrary score is the only meaningful outcome from a mission. 

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 And then again we have the end of the mission where you  make it to the base and if the landing is not that good ( and I do not mean smashing the plane)

but damaging the propeller then you get the half points from all the mission  :wacko:  :wacko: ... then under this logic is better to  avoid landing press escape and just lose 30 points only from not landing.

 

a bent propeller is in many cases a f*** up engine.

so, if all went  fine, takeoff, mission, bomber intercept...

BUTyou bend your propeller in a screwed up landing... that is the same as removing the plane from active duty for a few days at least, if not weeks.

How about removing your campaign progress if you can not land right after 10 hours ? Remove ALL points and ALL unlocks.

back to school! [we need competent pilots!]

 

 

 But hey  12 points for alight plane 18 points only for a medium ( and I think also a bomber !!   :huh:   :angry:  Give me a break they should be double.

 

Points for bombers? not enough?

what... you want the unlocks faster? 

all you need to do is get better at shooting them with less ammo or fly more often.

learn how to use your rockets to get them. Up to 6 extra kills per mission...

and you will get the unlocks within a few minutes.

 

Stop complaining. today you have a heinkel or a peshka to shoot.

next will be B-17' s, Mitchells, marauders, Pe-8, He-177 and other "nice targets" that are far more dangerous, and feature 20mm defenses instead of 7.7mm...

 

Besides is a war simulator , shooting down planes and  completing missions , not a  " learn how to land or else" simulator.

 

War starts with learning how to not kill yourself and break your own countrie's material, so if you are not good enough, and crash your planes, you are helping the enemy.

 

do the take off and landing missions.

again and again and again.

You are no hero.

You are just one of many, many pilots.

You are a simple worker in the war machine, you are the lowest level of all workers: if you are not competent, you die.

That is how low your grade is.

 

As you say... it is a simple thing to fix:

Do the Job right or you will be flying a desk or be sent to the front as a foot soldier... Searching and clearing enemy mines.

Edited by Yakdriver

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Don't have a dog in this fight but I think the OP's proposal makes a lot of sense.  As I read it, he is saying that if you have mild damage on landing you should lose half your landing bonus rather than half your points.  This gives you an incentive to try to land the thing and get better at it, whereas right now it does make more sense to end the mission before the landing (well in the lagg3 it does anyway!).  He's not saying no penalty for a rough landing, just a lesser penalty. 

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In real life learning to land is more important than shooting down planes.

If you notice what the game is really giving you points for is "success" not just landing. You don't get any points for anything much if you fail at the objective.

Practice landing better, it's an easy way to rack up points.

Something I do like about the point system is how it gives you extra score for taking off and landing. By doing so it actually encourages sim behavior instead of just air shooter gaming.

Edited by SharpeXB

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Welcome to BOS

 

I still haven't done most of my unlocks there are still locked away . The unlock system has driven most away  .

Concentrate on one aircraft only and set to auto pilot x2 and when at action point ...............fly yourself and auto pilot back to base land on auto . Its a terrible way to do things but it gets the silly job done  .

 

Yes it is not that difficult to unlock all so I suggest it ti you. Yes it can be repealing if you  are not an offline player. So far I have unlocked 75% for the planes I use.Yes sometimes I land on auto to avoid the hassle. Wish there was a 4x time even if it didn't have autopilot on more than 2x time... anyway. I do my own flying and leave it to auto If I have to prepare a coffee or do something else while on game.

 Thanks.

 

Basically I mentioned all these also the rest point system as an idea to improve the game more just in that pointing system ( since it is a part of the game.)

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In real life learning to land is more important than shooting down planes.

If you notice what the game is really giving you points for is "success" not just landing. You don't get any points for anything much if you fail at the objective.

Practice landing better, it's an easy way to rack up points.

Something I do like about the point system is how it gives you extra score for taking off and landing. By doing so it actually encourages sim behavior instead of just air shooter gaming.

 

 

Yes but it is unbalanced. In real life the pilot who would get the metal of honor is the one who completed the mission shot down 2-3 or more planes and  came back to base even if belly landed, than the one who did nothing and just  took off and  landed after a successfull also mission. ... Isn;t it so ?  Well I ain;t talking about belly landing here anyway, but a fully intact aircraft except its propeler, that is ussualy broken after a small bounch while landing....HUGE difference.

 

Forgot to say that you may end up wrecking up an aircraft and then another team mate comes up shoots a couple of rounds the plane goes down and the victory is his, while I have  done 90% of the work.That;s not the way it goes even in real life.

Don't have a dog in this fight but I think the OP's proposal makes a lot of sense.  As I read it, he is saying that if you have mild damage on landing you should lose half your landing bonus rather than half your points.  This gives you an incentive to try to land the thing and get better at it, whereas right now it does make more sense to end the mission before the landing (well in the lagg3 it does anyway!).  He's not saying no penalty for a rough landing, just a lesser penalty. 

 

 That's exactly/!

Edited by AvengerSeawolf
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It would be interesting to score actual combatants careers.  Rudel would be interesting ...

 

Idle speculation

 

 

 

It would be neat to take Rudel's average score per sortie and try to beat it, just the average.  Or maybe try to beat his best single sortie. 

Edited by chuter

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It would be interesting to score actual combatants careers.  Rudel would be interesting ...

 

Idle speculation

 

 

 

It would be neat to take Rudel's average score per sortie and try to beat it, just the average.  Or maybe try to beat his best single sortie. 

 

 

Sonud very interesting and challenging too.

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Yeah but I think he may have cheated by using unlocks that shouldn't have been available to him yet at the time.

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In real life learning to land is more important than shooting down planes.

 

 In real life many  highly decorated pilots have crash landed but got rewarded as well as they should.  And of course how many planes shot was far more important than anything else.
Of course in real life planes did not behave like bricks when the angle of attack and  speed is correct  to land..
These one here behave like bricks +  they seem to be touching a rubber ground which will bounch them off to the ground like  kangaroo, than a real ground.

 

 

 

If you notice what the game is really giving you points for is "success" not just landing

 

 Yes it does ., but unfortunately the fun is spoiled when a wrong landing takes away half of ALL the points earned. One can get more points if not land at all. So the system as is now does not encourage to practice the  landing of the  Brick in landing speeds planes.

 

 

 

 

Practice landing better, it's an easy way to rack up points.

 

 That is correct and I could not agree more than that. It is not encouraging though to practice when  you know that something  is really wrong.

 

 Hope the flight behavior when landing will be corrected. When angle of attack and landing speed is correct planes can land even with engines turned off. Any propeller driven aircraft can do that easy.

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Eh? The planes in this sim land nicely if you land at the correct speed in a 3 point attitude. They also dead stick nicely. If you don't 3 point them they're trickier but that's the way it should be.

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Eh? The planes in this sim land nicely if you land at the correct speed in a 3 point attitude. They also dead stick nicely. If you don't 3 point them they're trickier but that's the way it should be.

 

The Ju and the He land nicelly , the others fly like bricks in landing speed mostly. That's not the way it should be. Have played more than enough flight sims to say that. More than enough. So they have to change it , we did not born yesterday  but flight simming since 1999

 

P.S> But OK I forgot , I did not follow the tutorial flights they have in the game. :wacko::lol:

Edited by AvengerSeawolf

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One could point out that flying computer games doesn't make you an expert on flying. Especially as flight model fidelity has only really been worth looking at for the last three, maybe four years. But hey, if you think they're wrong and can back it up with facts and figures then there's a section of the forum where you can get them changed. Go for it :)

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I remember great frustration with the 109 in particular, then something just 'clicked'. I did practice and then check video of my own landings, eventually I got used to landing the 109 without being able to see a thing. It's a bit like using the 'Force' in Star wars you have to FEEL for where the runway is.

 

 

Thanks for the advice. :happy:

 

 

 

 

which is much less than it should be so don't be suprised if you see me bouncing in for a landing on-line!

 

Yes they forgot that the 109 has shock absorbers , so it has to bounch like a kangaroo.. :lol:

 

 

 

 

One could point out that flying computer games doesn't make you an expert on flying.

 

 it does  make  me an expert on judging PC flight sims... The reality is a different thing of course and nothing to do with sims.

 

 

 

 

Especially as flight model fidelity has only really been worth looking at for the last three, maybe four years

 

 Where does that come from ?  Well form the graphics point of view the last year are advanced I can say, but that's all. GIve me some real facts and data , and not only " the CPU's  were not  strong enough""

 

 

 

 

But hey, if you think they're wrong and can back it up with facts and figures then there's a section of the forum where you can get them changed. Go for it

 

 

 Yes that's the  same ol same ol  arguement to present facts and data like  this i possible. Personally I would not expect to fly the real thing but  something close if possible and something logical..

But since you put it this way, then

 

Form this  video ( and there are plenty like that in youtube) anyone can understand that  at least the distinctive sound of the Bf 109 is wrong in the game. ( since you put it that way) It's about the same ol crappy sound of the old il-2... ANd if someone notice and has the experience the landing  characteristics are WORLDS APPART... plane does not float like a balloon on landing speed and at the same time fall as a brick... :lol::biggrin:  this is rediculous

SO  I will reverse the question since that is  your point... who can prove me  with facts and data that they got it  right, at the moment that they could not have the sound right. ?

 

And another  engine sound  video, just a pleasure to hear... a pleasure that  we do not have in a (new) game ( supposed to be improved)

 

Edited by AvengerSeawolf
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Nope sorry dude, the emphasis is on you, I can do nothing to change things in this game, I can't be bothered and it's good enough for me. You want things changed, use the forum section that the developers have given you. I'm sure they'll listen to reason and logic.

By the way, since when does being an expert in flight sims mean that you know exactly how a plane should land,

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Nope sorry dude, the emphasis is on you, I can do nothing to change things in this game, I can't be bothered and it's good enough for me. You want things changed, use the forum section that the developers have given you. I'm sure they'll listen to reason and logic.

By the way, since when does being an expert in flight sims mean that you know exactly how a plane should land,

 

 Definitelly I did not say anywhere that I claim how a plane SHOULD land, BUT I know how it should not behave in landing conditons ( which I described) Data and video presented and I will for the matter of shake make an ingame recording on few landings.

 

 At the other point they'd better listen to some logic suggestions from  people, if they want to sell. At least this Bf 109 sound is really wrong and will be better to be changed for the good of the game and the benefit of the people, I think that would make justice to the otherwise beautifull made plane.

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 And here are a couple of recordings. One  failure and anither one success.
Even though the rate of descend is  very very low on the failure  we see that the plane  jumps like a kangaroo when hit the ground. Pulling the joystick back after the first bounch it had little to no effect. Yes difference is that  plane has less angle of attack in the failure one compared to the successful, though the rate of desvend is lower on the failure.. pitty that  I ha a close up and  no instruments appear on the screen But you can see that in outside view.

 

 Needles to say in I find the jumping in both cases too much, for what it should be.

 

Files to be put on the "tracks"  folder in BoS landing recording.zip

Edited by AvengerSeawolf

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I haven't flown the real planes in question, but it's actually relatively easy to see what went wrong in the failed version. Your approach path took you too low too early, which you realized and increased the throttle accordingly. This of course caused the speed to pick up considerably and you were actually flying an almost flat trajectory when you were above the runway, which requires a too high speed for a good touchdown. In this kind of conditions taildraggers tend to lower their rear when the main gear touches the runway and when you raise the nose at a speed that's sufficient for flying, you fly (or rather bounce). That's inevitable. If you really want to land on two wheels with non-stalled speed you pretty much need to have zero vertical velocity at touchdown, or at least closer to zero than I can comfortably manage.

 

For me most of the planes in Il-2 3 aren't that problematic, but anything that starts with "La" constantly offer at least three flights for the price of one. I guess I'm not the only one, since I recall an anecdote from an apparently frustrated Russian pilot flying the real La-5 stating that if you see an La-5 that doesn't bounce on landing it's actually a Focke Wulf. I guess that's kind of useful rule for plane recognition.

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Sounds dangerously like a logical summing up of a pilot related problem. Better get the FM changed :)

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Your approach path took you too low too early, which you realized and increased the throttle accordingly.

 

 That's the way autopilot does it but anyway. My point is how can a plane bounch so much when the  descending speed is so low., less than 1m /sec.Pulling the stick  more and land on a more angle of course makes a difference in success.Anyway.. I do this

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Although it's always called a bounce you need to stop thinking of it as a bounce such as you would have with a rubber ball or something like that, it's not. As Andy says, when you are too fast ie, not a three point attitude, the tail will drop when you touch down, this changes the angle of attack on the wing (same effect as pulling back on the stick) and so generates more lift. You are NOT bouncing, you are "flying". It's a feature not confined to powered aircraft, even gliders suffer from it, the Grob Astir will readily provide you with another takeoff if you don't do a fully held off landing and if you don't control that well you can end up with a very hard landing that will crack the metal fuselage spar that mounts the undercarriage. That's just a lightweight slow flying glider, so as you can imagine the effects are a lot more pronounced in a heavy, high performance fighter plane. The other thing to remember is that these aircraft are not designed for low speed handling so if you bugger up the landing the chances are that it won't end up well.

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As Andy says, when you are too fast i

 

 i I recon too fast has to do with speed , right ?  then I am never too fast.

 

 

 

You are NOT bouncing, you are "flying"

 

 Correct flying , flying at least at the straight angle that the plane has during touch down, BUT because that does not happen and the plane  jumps like it has touched a rubber ground then is a bounch.
 Very simple put , extremely low rate of descend , plane straight,landing speed ok then at the most the plane should go either straight and loose speed and keep toughing the ground losing speed, kind of the reverse backwards take off.

 But anyway that is not the point of this topic, the point is the points. I said no fair to lose half points of all the mission due to an unsuccesfull landing and because none like to admit something is not fair  try to emphasize  the argument of landing of course instead of  present something reasonable of why should one lose half points of the mission

 

No big problem with landing folks I tell you, problem is with fairness of the points and that I say for the benefit of the many people... so do not whine if you don't get points and there you have to unlock stuff...

 But ohhh I forgott is better for some other people to whine and have no unlocks.. perhaps have no campaign cause they do not play it and only care about having super weapons to play online.. I know how it goes.. the easy way of selfishness.. " think about your only benefit and  forget others"

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Goodness you really are an argumentative fellow. For what it's worth I agree with you on only losing half of the landing points not the total mission points. But you went off on one about how the game was wrong about how to land and when Andy kindly explained what you were doing wrong you ignored it. And by the way, you're about as wrong as can be about how to land a plane without bouncing but there's none so blind as those that won't see.

 

I hope that the points awarded is changed but, as in real life, ignoring others and demanding things rarely gets you anywhere.

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ignoring others and demanding things rarely gets you anywhere.

 

 Who do I ignore and who told you I demand  something?  I do though suggest something for the better of the sim and the benefit of the many. I am of those who like things changing for the better.
At the other hand little do I care at the end, all my planes are unlocked all the modes, I do land at ease   since I figured out the trick of the game ( very little  to do with real of course) so for me there is no big deal at the end.

And here is a real Bf 109 landing.


  Even though it is tricky  cause of the ridder used, If  that bef it was behaving like in the game then it should have definitely hit the proppeler on the ground after a big bounch ( not the small ones here on video) , but it didn't cause it is real life and

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In light of the fact that some are able to land the 109 'realistically' that to me would suggest the 'problem' is on your end, but it the hardware or the user but not the software.

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In light of the fact that some are able to land the 109 'realistically' that to me would suggest the 'problem' is on your end, but it the hardware or the user but not the software.

 Apparently there is no problem for me to land any plane  in this game, after a little practice the years of experience made it ok for me to adapt to the new game engine after few landings.

 However the point of the topic is other.I think is no big deal to change for the benefit of the many, and for  the ones get discouraged for playing the campaign to unlock the planes.

 Make the game  more  enjoyable for them. All the planes I use are  unlocked anyway so my concern is mostly for others.

Is there a reason it should not be ?

 

Edited by AvengerSeawolf

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Is there a reason it should not be ?

 

Apparently there is..

 

Which should not come as a surprise to anyone that has been playing any sort of game over the past 10 years.. Be it unlocks or pay for adons, this has been the trend of many games, and I suspect we can expect to see more of it in the future.

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Apparently there is..

 

Which should not come as a surprise to anyone that has been playing any sort of game over the past 10 years.. Be it unlocks or pay for adons, this has been the trend of many games, and I suspect we can expect to see more of it in the future.

 

 So what is this reason that the game should not  be more enjoyable ?

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 So what is this reason that the game should not  be more enjoyable ?

 

Ah, I see where you are confused.. Your assuming that what is enjoyable to you is enjoyable for all.. Which is typically not the case, but understandable for the self centered types of this world that are incapable of considering other points of view.. At this point it would be wise on  your part to note that I gave no reason, in that I don't have a crystal ball and therefore incapable of reading the minds of the 777/1C game makers. I simply answered your question by pointing out they clearly have a reason for doing it, as for what the reason is, you will have to ask 777/1C

 

Hope that helps

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Your assuming that what is enjoyable to you is enjoyable for all..

 

 I enjoy the game already as it is. As I said I have enjoyed finishing the campaign and all the planes I am interested unlocked. I assume though due to many posts here and there complaining about the unlocks and the campaign that it would be more enjoyable for the point system to change.
 More points for shooting down planes and  ground targets as it is now  , lets say 25%  and not  reducing all the points of the whole mission if the landing is not tat proper.
 SO again  for the good of the other people I am sure this would make the game for them more enjoyable. What more rational than to get better rewarded. So you might  not understood what I said.
And yes of course when someone buys the premium version  might get unlocks , but that's not the point  point is reward at a logical basis that can bring more interest to people to play the game in SP/

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I assume

 

Agreed 100%

 

As for those who complain.. I think it is safe to assume that 777/1C did some market research on the features implemented in this game (unlocks) and knew in advance that some would like it and some would not, i.e.

 

You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time

 

So, I am not surprised to see people complaining about any and all aspects of the game, take you for example, you don't like the point system.

 

At this point it will be up to 777/1C to determine if the number of complaints warrant a change on their part

 

Hope that helps

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Easy enough to have a switch to turn that ON or OFF in campaign mode if you want to have to earn that stuff.

I didnt spend money to pre-order/premium edition to have to UNLOCK weapons and paint schemes for flying multiplayer.

sorry, thats an asshat move.

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The point system is set up the way it is just for gameplay. A long mission is 2x the points of a short one otherwise nobody would fly the long missions. The landing score can only be earned fully by landing at your home field otherwise the long missions wouldn't represent a challenge if you can just get the score landing anywhere. The botched landing reduces your whole score because otherwise why fly back to your home field? The player could just ditch and get points.

Edited by SharpeXB

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