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Flanker15

The "living" cockpit, something that hasn't been done much in flight sims.

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This was something that I was thinking about, flight sims keep advancing forward with better immersion and effects but the cockpit seems to stay as it was back in il-2 just with graphical improvments.

The cockpit is probably the most important thing for immersion it's the envelope between the player and the virtual world, the more real it seems the more real everything past it will seem.  What I mean by living is that lots of "things" should happen in the cockpit right now in sims we have working gagues and controls, dynamic light and shadow, rain/oil drops on the screen and canned damage.

 

Damage effects would be the first thing I'd improve: a bullet through the canopy could spray powdered glass into the cockpit and sound from air rushing over the hole, oil and fuel could spray into the cockpit from a hole or leak and coat the pilot/controls, loose parts could be affected by pyhsics (dangling wires, bits of metal rattling around), sparks and smoke from damaged electronics and terminal effects like flames licking into the cockpit through holes up to a full inferno of blinding smoke and fire, bullet holes in the pilot with pain animations/sounds and blood if you want to go that way.

Other things are stuff like animations for pilot actions, like closing the cockpit etc.

Some space and tanks sims have tried to do this kind of stuff with success so why can't flight sims.

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This would take a huge amount of modeling and programming resources to do it in the detail you suggest. It's just not very practical for the most part during development.

 

Jason

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We can't even get believable exterior damage modeling in any sim so far.  

 

Doing it for the cockpit, to me, seems like a low priority.  And most of our desktop computer struggle as it is, this would be a major compromise in performance for what amounts to eye candy.

 

It would by a cool thing, don't get me wrong, but at the current level of computer power, and the tenuous financial footing that combat flight sims are on really puts this on the back burner.

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This would take a huge amount of modeling and programming resources to do it in the detail you suggest. It's just not very practical for the most part during development.

 

Jason

 

Yep, my suggestions were things that I'd have in "The Perfect Flightsim" but even the simplist additions would still be an improvment.

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I think there are some aspects which might be implemented without eating much resources (both developers' and our PC's), like smoke in the cockpit when you have to ventilate it somehow :)

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What about iced cockpit glass due to the pilots breath, has this been allread adressed somewhere?  Which leads me to another, more general, question. What about the planes icing in BoS? Will this be simulated? I suppose the air masses are rather dry in the winter of Stalingrad but is the enginge capable of simulating this kind of effects?

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What about iced cockpit glass due to the pilots breath, has this been allread adressed somewhere?  Which leads me to another, more general, question. What about the planes icing in BoS? Will this be simulated? I suppose the air masses are rather dry in the winter of Stalingrad but is the enginge capable of simulating this kind of effects?

The canopy fogging over was modeled in ClOD. I would expect, that icing due to condensation would be a fairly easy thing to model in BoS, Icing on the wings might be harder, but just as important IMHO.

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For me basic stuff from IL2 does it and I`d be disappointed if anything less was in other flightsims.


It would by a cool thing, don't get me wrong, but at the current level of computer power, and the tenuous financial footing that combat flight sims are on really puts this on the back burner.

Yes, sadly it always looks the same, cockpits eat a lot of fps as they are now.

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I'd like to see the pilot's intestines wrapped around the stick after being hit in the belly with cannon fire, then have them unfurling like a serpentine after he parachutes out, just basic stuff really.

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Truth to be told I'm more into realistic aircraft behaviour because I figure we wont have graphical uber realism for a loooooooong time.

 

I think that would require mamooth work + would absolutely kill todays computers. :D

 

As it is now I'm PERFECTLY satisfied with RoF in WW2 format.

 

Granted i'm a bit old skool so great graphics or flashy effects don't impress me much.

Hm.

 

Although I like fun and all I see things are slowly but surely going south on this forum.

 

Must be 'cos people are anxious to get their paws on the game... who csn blame 'em :))

PS before someone wax my 6, yeah I do find RoF and IL-2 for that matter very visually appealing.

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What about iced cockpit glass due to the pilots breath, has this been allread adressed somewhere?  Which leads me to another, more general, question. What about the planes icing in BoS? Will this be simulated? I suppose the air masses are rather dry in the winter of Stalingrad but is the enginge capable of simulating this kind of effects?

Icing is a pretty difficult subject to implement in a flight sim. The aerodynamics of icing are extremely complicated and replicating them accurately is going to be impossible with modern PCs. Ice accretion is quite variable and dependent on temperature, precipitation, and cloud water vapor levels. Aerospace researchers use extremely powerful computers to accurately model icing effects on just a small section of a wing, not even the whole airplane.

 

On top of that, WWII aircraft would've avoided flying conditions where ice was problematic. Bad flying weather usually grounded aircraft in WWII. Even the Russians (who we know flew in terrible weather) knew to stay below and out of the clouds (where icing would've been). To top it all off, icing isn't FUN. I can tell you from experience that having your plane ice up sucks. It doesn't particularly add anything to the combat experience and is more frustrating than anything. Waiting for 30-45 minutes for the ice to sublimate off your airplane or having to descend to warm air to let it melt (not likely in a Stalingrad winter) simply isn't a fun experience.

 

I think this is a subject best left to the civilian flight simulators.

Edited by Crow

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The canopy fogging over was modeled in ClOD. I would expect, that icing due to condensation would be a fairly easy thing to model in BoS, Icing on the wings might be harder, but just as important IMHO.

 

In this mentioned sim was not just canopy fogging, pitot tube and carburator suffer with ice. Unfortunately bad modeled effect, a small cloud at 700 meters sometimes down a Br.20. Effect removed by Team Fusion.

 

Sokol1

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yes !

 

I want full motion, surround vision and sound, blood packs and bullet holes !!!

 

and I want them NOW

 

post-706-0-03644200-1381204324_thumb.jpg

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I agree it would look really cool Flanker :)  But fps is the goal in a fast action flight sim like this. I do love the damage model in Clod, a real step forward, but dynamic weather would be the real nirvana for me - one day and something to look forward to when we all have our own super computers. 

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Regarding cockpit immersion I was pretty suprised when I recently played another WW2 aircombat game (won't call it a simulator though) chasing a damaged plane and the actual oil of that plane spilled my windshield. These are fun effects - kind of which already exist in most modern flight sims (like RoF for example).

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In this mentioned sim was not just canopy fogging, pitot tube and carburator suffer with ice. Unfortunately bad modeled effect, a small cloud at 700 meters sometimes down a Br.20. Effect removed by Team Fusion.

 

Sokol1

I know, but just because it was done poorly in ClOD, doesn't mean it's hard/imposible to do. Icing on the wings is another matter. That is complicated.

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Some great ideas. I'm sure a few of these would be pretty low cost to fps.

 

For example a new sound when bullet holes get put in your canopy glass. This sounds really cool and requires no extra graphics. Flickering lights or gauges, sparks, smoke...all this stuff sounds awesome but yeah will cost fps.

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I for one would love this scenario. You go on a night mission,you get in a fight or get jumped,and you get hit somewhere and it cuts your electricity,and the lights start flickering or just cut out without light.

 

Also the sound of air through the cockpit of a broken glass piece sounds amazing,and with the current audio i don't think it will be impossible to do.

 

Also what would be really cool is blood on the cockpit itself and gauges from your own pilot,that is if you do not get hit lethally. Just ideas tho,currently it will eat too much fps.

Edited by Joker_23

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Yeah there is some immersive stuff that could be done, with minimal fps impact. But who knows I'm not a game designer.

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This is After Effects but look at ~1:40 - nice

. :)

 

Sokol1

Edited by Sokol1

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Correct me if i am wrong but isn't basic cockpit damage to be included?  In update 18, Loft wrote:

 

9) Will you able to simulate combat damage in the cockpit? For example: broken glass and devices, damaging of the visible elements in the cockpit. And how this feature might be interesting (than willing to pay) in your opinion?
 
We planned this. The main question is now just how cool we can do it. Perhaps it will be just more beautiful than was done in the "IL-2" or we can take a new approach. Time will tell.

 

 

Doesn't have to be animated or fancy, just needs to have cockpit damage modeled.  In full real mode having you instruments shot out puts a whole new dimension into getting home.

Edited by VR-Stick

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Correct me if i am wrong but isn't basic cockpit damage to be included?  In update 18, Loft wrote:

 

 

Doesn't have to be animated or fancy, just needs to have cockpit damage modeled.  In full real mode having you instruments shot out puts a whole new dimension into getting home.

 

 

As long its not   alwyas the same instrument like in old Il2. Every time I got hit my oil temperature and fuel gauges were gone. Alwyas thsoe 2. :P

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The most important thing in simulation is the depth and the broadness of the smulation. Less aircrafts, more effects - best way ahead.

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Don't get me wrong, but I don't wanna fire in my cockpit.

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The most important thing in simulation is the depth and the broadness of the smulation. Less aircrafts, more effects - best way ahead.

 

 

Well  depth and broadnes are almost contraditory to be strict :P  Broadness means lots of stuff..  depth means  more focus on  a few stuff :P

 

 

 

 

I think balance is important.  My gripe with DCS products is a single plane.  I am the type of person that need to change   every  short period.  I cannot even play WoT  with a same tank  more than 1 hour, cannot play magic the gathering with 1 deck  more than 1 month. THerefore I need to have 4-5 planes to switch every  other week :P

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