Developer Diary, Part 91 - Discussion

[UncleHajo]

Whoa! - Fantastic... - How big is that map again!?

 

Also, the Ju-52/3m looks lovely. A bit of a tinny sound from the engines, I thought there was more of a deep roar to them the several times I've seen and heard the plane in real life.

 

Thanks developers, you are really making giant strides in this period!

 

Here's some video of one I saw a few years ago: https://youtu.be/6Aj1G0ls6wQ

 

What struck me most was how SLOW this plane is. I thought: this aircraft was flying it in a combat zone?! Imagine trying to fly one near Stalingrad, or across the Mediterranean... We are lucky to have this flight sim  

[avlSteve]

I can't begin to describe how much I'd like it to be flyable.

[LLv44_Damixu]

Maybe good reason enough for having Ju 52 (and Li-2 for Russians) flyable could be specific mission types for single and multiplayer gaming. For example missions of:

- Retrieval of downed pilot from crash site (Player or AI-pilot crashed)

- Delivering supplies to frontline ground troops or other airfield (dynamically determined location on the map)

- Paratrooper drops (AI-paratroopers)

- etc.

 

All of these missions would need fighter cover in order to have tolerable level of success. By having this meaningful purpose to man flyable cargo aircraft and use it after the fad wears off, then there might be a rational reason to allocate precious development resources for this.

 

Just my two cents...

Edited March 25, 2015 by Damixu

[beepee]

 

Maybe good reason enough for having Ju 52 (and Li-2 for Russians) flyable could be specific mission types for single and multiplayer gaming. For example missions of:

- Retrieval of downed pilot from crash site (Player or AI-pilot crashed)

- Delivering supplies to frontline ground troops or other airfield (dynamically determined location on the map)

- Paratrooper drops (AI-paratroopers)

- etc.

 

All of these missions would need fighter cover in order to have tolerable level of success. By having this meaningful purpose to man flyable cargo aircraft and use it after the fad wears off, then there might be a rational reason to allocate precious development resources for this.

 

Just my two cents...

 

I would like fyable versions for all of the above.  Capturing airfields or  selected areas with Paratroops would be awesome.

[Feathered_IV]

Maybe good reason enough for having Ju 52 (and Li-2 for Russians) flyable could be specific mission types for single and multiplayer gaming. For example missions of:

- Retrieval of downed pilot from crash site (Player or AI-pilot crashed)

- Delivering supplies to frontline ground troops or other airfield (dynamically determined location on the map)

- Paratrooper drops (AI-paratroopers)

 

A few other that spring to mind:

 

Evacuate wounded troops

Keep forward airfields operational by delivering the requisite number of "New Pilots" to replace losses (I'm looking at you, MP).

ViP transporter. Find and kill the the top brass to automatically win the round.

[novicebutdeadly]

If I had to choose between getting the ju52 or getting BOM earlier, I would def prefer getting BOM earlier.

Edited March 25, 2015 by novicebutdeadly

[6./ZG26_McKvack]

The selection of mission would be much higher both in SP and MP.

[kestrel79]

Great gameplay ideas guys with the Ju52. This is exactly what I hope to be seeing in the future from all current flight sims. Give us some cool missions that are different from the norm of dogfight and bomber missions. Come on let's get creative!

[SharpeXB]

I think the reality is a flyable Ju-52 would be difficult to develop and in the end not used by many players. I'd rather have the work result in more combat aircraft or extra game content that would get more use.

[SvAF/F19_Klunk]

As much as I would LOVE to have Tante Ju flyable, for me it''s way down the list. So many planes Id rather see before.

[71st_AH_Mastiff]

As much as I would LOVE to have Tante Ju flyable, for me it''s way down the list. So many planes Id rather see before.

I guess you haven't seen this then?

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/168-developer-diary/?p=231317

 

 

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

I guess you haven't seen this then?

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/168-developer-diary/?p=231317

 

bomaircraft.jpg

Kon-jekt-chur.

 

LOL

[71st_AH_Mastiff]

Kon-jekt-chur.

 

LOL

I see your still fanning the flames..

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

I see your still fanning the flames..

 

What flames?

 

I call them as I see them. 

[71st_AH_Mastiff]

What flames?

 

I call them as I see them. 

instigator

 

in·sti·ga·tor

 

/ˈinstiˌɡādər/

 

noun

noun: instigator; plural noun: instigators

a person who brings about or initiates something.

"he was not the instigator of the incident"

synonyms: initiator, prime mover, motivator, architect, designer, planner, inventor, mastermind, originator, author, creator, agent; 

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

instigator

 

in·sti·ga·tor

 

/ˈinstiˌɡādər/

 

noun

noun: instigator; plural noun: instigators

a person who brings about or initiates something.

"he was not the instigator of the incident"

synonyms: initiator, prime mover, motivator, architect, designer, planner, inventor, mastermind, originator, author, creator, agent; 

Oh no, fanning the flames!!1!

 

Can you use that in a sentence for me?

[71st_AH_Mastiff]

Oh no, fanning the flames!!1!

 

Can you use that in a sentence for me?

please stop your self, or take your meds...

[CF-105]

I guess you haven't seen this then?

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/168-developer-diary/?p=231317

 

bomaircraft.jpg

To be brutally honest, I have to say the the German fighters are fairly boring (E-7 is at least fairly unique), but the Russian attack and bomber aircraft are even more similar.

All other aircraft will be an absolute blast! 

[71st_AH_Mastiff]

To be brutally honest, I have to say the the German fighters are fairly boring (E-7 is at least fairly unique), but the Russian attack and bomber aircraft are even more similar.

All other aircraft will be an absolute blast! 

just like DCS, CLOD, or IL2 1946, it takes years to make,...

money to budget, on a small indie company, who does not

have AAA gaming title to have millions of dollars and

large employee base to pull from. i.e Battlefields, BF4, ARMAIII

who coincidentally have a military contract.

Edited March 25, 2015 by 71st_Mastiff

[Feathered_IV]

So many more gameplay options become available if the Ju-52 were flyable. However the other new aircraft for BoM do not contribute anything that the present aircraft do not do already.

[CF-105]

just like DCS, CLOD, or IL2 1946, it takes years to make,...

money to budget, on a small indie company, who does not

have AAA gaming title to have millions of dollars and

large employee base to pull from. i.e Battlefields, BF4, ARMAIII

who coincidentally have a military contract.

 

I didn't exactly say "I want this right now" come on, I know things take time to make.

 

But to add a Su-2 instead of a IL-2 would make all the difference, this franchise is famous for IL-2 1946, a game with an absurd selection of planes.

People are looking for variety in these first crucial stages of the game, especially as there are only 10 aircraft in game currently.  I'm not saying that I won't enjoy these aircraft, I will fly them with the same enthusiasm, but to owners of both BoS and BoM, the interest in another Peshka and Shturmovik will be dulled, however slight it may be.

 

On the other hand, a Chaika, Ju-88, E-7, Bf-110 ( a personal favorite!) and a MiG! 

They certainly more than make up for 3 similar aircraft, where can I throw my money?

Edited March 27, 2015 by CF-105

[CF-105]

So many more gameplay options become available if the Ju-52 were flyable. However the other new aircraft for BoM do not contribute anything that the present aircraft do not do already.

Come on, what about the Chaika, Ju-88, and Bf-110, along with the P-40 and MC.202?

 

You have the Dr.1-style fighter, incredibly versatile bomber (better than the He-111 slug), gunship, chainsaw with wings, and supermodel!  

[Brano]

DB-3/Il-4 would be better choice then early Pe-2.But there are some reasons behind it won't be included.I would also like to see SB-2,but thats more for Barbarossa operation.At the end of summer 1941 they were almost completly wiped out.

Emil is welcome for personal reasons.Our 13./JG52 (slowakisches) has been equipped with this model till march 1943.If we get in future Crimea/Kuban map,it will be possible to recreate missions of Slovak fighter pilots.I am looking forward to this

[Feathered_IV]

Come on, what about the Chaika, Ju-88, and Bf-110, along with the P-40 and MC.202?

 

You have the Dr.1-style fighter, incredibly versatile bomber (better than the He-111 slug), gunship, chainsaw with wings, and supermodel!  

 

There won't be a chaika.  There is the I-16, though as much as I love it, it won't bring any new gameplay options with it.  Nor will the Ju-88 or the 110.  They do all the same things the Pe-2 does already - just with crosses instead of stars.  No new modes of gameplay are going to come from the P-40 or 202 either.  They are just more fighters with varying nuances in performance.  The Ju-52 would be different though.  It is one of the few aircraft that offers something truly new.

[=LD=Penshoon]

There won't be a chaika.  There is the I-16, though as much as I love it, it won't bring any new gameplay options with it.  Nor will the Ju-88 or the 110.  They do all the same things the Pe-2 does already - just with crosses instead of stars.  No new modes of gameplay are going to come from the P-40 or 202 either.  They are just more fighters with varying nuances in performance.  The Ju-52 would be different though.  It is one of the few aircraft that offers something truly new.

If the devs made a poll asking the community what two aircraft's should be made flyable of the Ju-52, Ju-88 & the Bf 110, what do you think the result would be? My guess would be Ju-88 & Bf 110. 

[6./ZG26_Emil]

If the devs made a poll asking the community what two aircraft's should be made flyable of the Ju-52, Ju-88 & the Bf 110, what do you think the result would be? My guess would be Ju-88 & Bf 110. 

 

Without a doubt.

 

We needed the Ju-52 for Stalingrad and other scenarios but flyable....I really don't believe many people would fly it regardless of what they say.

 

How many people have flown transport/evac missions in the He-111? It's historical.

[Feathered_IV]

If the devs made a poll asking the community what two aircraft's should be made flyable of the Ju-52, Ju-88 & the Bf 110, what do you think the result would be? My guess would be Ju-88 & Bf 110. 

 

 

Totally.

 

Sadly, few players seem to have very much imagination with regards to new types of gameplay. They are always hungry for more, but never want to try something new. They just stay on the treadmill and do the same actions over and over, even though it frustrates them.

[Feathered_IV]

How many people have flown transport/evac missions in the He-111? It's historical.

 

I have.  The flights themselves are really good, as it's very tense to fly into an area where you know there are others waiting for you.  The lack of cargo loadouts makes it feel silly though, as I've seen players travelling empty on 10% fuel to zip in and out quicker. 

[Brano]

If the devs made a poll asking the community what two aircraft's should be made flyable of the Ju-52, Ju-88 & the Bf 110, what do you think the result would be? My guess would be Ju-88 & Bf 110. 

You cant place transport plane together with bomber/heavy fighter into one poll.

Ju52 belongs to workhorses group together with Fi156,Fw189,HS123/126,Po2...

[6./ZG26_McKvack]

Ju-88, Bf-110 and many others would get higher votes than the Ju-52 but the Ju-52 already got a FM and external model. It is far more developed than the other planes coming much later this year. If they added a new feature like dropping cargo with parachutes and added transporting as a separate mission type in the campaign people would be really interested in it. It would bring something new to the market. First 3 engine aircraft with a FM. 

 

Also Ju-52 is the most requested plane if you look on all the topics that has been made asking for it

Edited March 27, 2015 by McKvack

[=LD=Penshoon]

You cant place transport plane together with bomber/heavy fighter into one poll.

Ju52 belongs to workhorses group together with Fi156,Fw189,HS123/126,Po2...

They have announced that they have the time to model two German multicrewed planes before BOM release. If a flyable Ju-52 would be added, where do you think the time would be reallocated from? 

 

Ju-88, Bf-110 and many others would get higher votes than the Ju-52 but the Ju-52 already got a FM and external model. It is far more developed than the other planes coming much later this year. If they added a new feature like dropping cargo with parachutes and added transporting as a separate mission type in the campaign people would be really interested in it. It would bring something new to the market. First 3 engine aircraft with a FM. 

 

Also Ju-52 is the most requested plane if you look on all the topics that has been made asking for it

We have no idea how much time's required to make the different parts that make up these simulations. The exterior model and FM might only be 10% of the total work needed to make it ready for us, it might be 90%, we don't know. 

 

I would love to fly the Ju-52 but don't want to see either the Ju-88 or bf 110 be dropped from BOMs plane list. If the series becomes successful it will all come with time, if enough people are willing to pay for it it will be made. It's cool to remind the devs about this though.

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

They have announced that they have the time to model two German multicrewed planes before BOM release. If a flyable Ju-52 would be added, where do you think the time would be reallocated from?

Can I ask you for a source? Just curious since I wonder what those aircrfat could possibly be if not including the Ju 52.

 

Anyway this conversation is heading off again. Did the devs say anything about having to skip all their work on BoM to develop one aircraft to be flyable? No, and they sure don't. It's more a question of where the majority of money is coming from, which makes the decision of focusing all their strengh on BoM reasonable. It appeals to a wider audience and enhences their product by a new theatre.

 

Does that disqualify the Ju 52 for being a flyable object in BoS/BoM? No, totally not. It is actually not too difficult to do since many were build and were well decumented + we have still some flying examples today (some even have their original BMW 132 engines).

 

Sth that also makes the Ju 52 special is it's usage threwout the war. Among very few other german aircraft it flew from Spain to Berlin in it's basic configuration. Despite attemts to produce successors to replace it it remained the backbone on all fronts involving german action in a great variety of tasks.

 

So it's not only an interesting plane to fly in BoS, but could serve in any future European and Afrikan theatre 777 develop.

Edited March 27, 2015 by Stab/JG26_5tuka

[6./ZG26_McKvack]

They have announced that they have the time to model two German multicrewed planes before BOM release. If a flyable Ju-52 would be added, where do you think the time would be reallocated from? 

 

We have no idea how much time's required to make the different parts that make up these simulations. The exterior model and FM might only be 10% of the total work needed to make it ready for us, it might be 90%, we don't know. 

 

I would love to fly the Ju-52 but don't want to see either the Ju-88 or bf 110 be dropped from BOMs plane list. If the series becomes successful it will all come with time, if enough people are willing to pay for it it will be made. It's cool to remind the devs about this though.

Even if they make the Ju-52 i dont think they will drop the Ju-88 or Bf-110.

 

I remember seeing a post from a dev(either from steam or the forum) that the FM is the major part. Also if you compare the He-111 to the Ju-52 it is much easier to create. There exist many flying Ju-52 today(only one flying He-111) and much documents about it and there is only 2 places needed to model. Cockpit and back turret compared to the He-111 which got a crew of 5 and most of the interior is modeled. In the Ju-52 only the cockpit and a small room in the back where the gunner is located is needed to model.

 

+ Whatever the devs might create after BoM there will always be the Ju-52. It was used in every part of the war germans were in. 

 

Id love to drop paratroopers over beautiful Norway someday  

Edited March 27, 2015 by McKvack

[kendo]

A question? Are there ANY planes that people would be happy to see modelled as AI-only and non-flyable in this sim?

 

With limited dev resources surely the choice is between having an expanded plane set that includes AI-only aircraft (which like the Ju52, may have played a large part in a particular theatre or battle), or a smaller plane set all of which can be flown by the player.

 

The presence of non-flyables enables the mission designer to model certain historical scenarios that otherwise would not be possible.

 

Insisting on everything being flyable, even comparatively minor types (e.g. from above Fi156,Fw189,HS123/126,Po2) results in less diverse skies and the balance of those that will be included being skewed towards the popular and the cool - fighters predominantly.

 

I think the devs have made the right call with the Ju52. Remember original il-2 had many AI-only aircraft.

Edited March 27, 2015 by kendo

[=LD=Penshoon]

Can I ask you for a source? Just curious since I wonder what those aircrfat could possibly be if not including the Ju 52.

 

Anyway this conversation is heading off again. Did the devs say anything about having to skip all their work on BoM to develop one aircraft to be flyable? No, and they sure don't. It's more a question of where the majority of money is coming from, which makes the decision of focusing all their strengh on BoM reasonable. It appeals to a wider audience and enhences their product by a new theatre.

 

Does that disqualify the Ju 52 for being a flyable object in BoS/BoM? No, totally not. It is actually not too difficult to do since many were build and were well decumented + we have still some flying examples today (some even have their original BMW 132 engines).

 

Sth that also makes the Ju 52 special is it's usage threwout the war. Among very few other german aircraft it flew from Spain to Berlin in it's basic configuration. Despite attemts to produce successors to replace it it remained the backbone on all fronts involving german action in a great variety of tasks.

 

So it's not only an interesting plane to fly in BoS, but could serve in any future European and Afrikan theatre 777 develop.

The two German multicrewed planes they will add before BOM release is the Ju-88 and bf 110 of course, announced in DD88:

 

 

Did the devs say anything about having to skip all their work on BoM to develop one aircraft to be flyable? No, and they sure don't.

Do you think they have a few extra guys in Moscow that sit around doing nothing that can make these? They have a schedule, add stuff to it and stuff can get delayed. Delays cost money. 

[LizLemon]

DB-3/Il-4 would be better choice then early Pe-2.But there are some reasons behind it won't be included.

 

What reason can there be for not modeling the Il-4? Surely there cant be some legal issues?

 

It'd be nice for the soviet side to have a proper medium bomber.

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

Ah okay, I though you meant multicrew planes added to BoS...never mind.

 

And just for understanding, they have a bunch of guys that work seperately from each other. 1 guy working on a FM or interface does not hinder the graphic deisgner and vise versa. They sure work all together at some point, although "mini projects" as the Ju 52 should not be too hindering for an expirienced team.

 

From an financial and future orientated point however I agree it's not worth sacrifising any workforce from BoM development.

Edited March 27, 2015 by Stab/JG26_5tuka

[SCG_Neun]

I can see a flyable JU-52 within the parameters of a well defined historical mission, where the need for resupply would be a specific mission success achievement.  I mean after all, I'm sure the superior Luftwaffe pilots and aircraft in the early phases leading up to and within early Stalingrad campaign, could be offset somewhat....by an aggressive VVS attack on this historical need to resupply in conjunction with the severe winter conditions.....Very realistic...yes? Of course...I'd also like to see long columns of Russian supply transports...exposed out on the barren ice and snow ..resupplying as well.....But then again.......AI JU-52's could serve as fodder as well.  I mean.....you can still define their altitude and routes...to avoid intercept...even if they are not flown by humans.  Not much a human pilot could do in the event of attack anyway.....is there?

[6./ZG26_McKvack]

The problem is MP. Many planes + AI planes do not work. At least what i have heard. 

Edited March 27, 2015 by McKvack

[SCG_Neun]

Afraid you're right, but that's not restricted to just MP....,they'll tweak it up soon , I hope.