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No601_Swallow

Technical (But Probably Obvious) Questions

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I've been slowly untangling some of the logic involved in mission building in BoS. Feeling like my brain is a bit too small (I have no experience of mission building in RoF, or of computer programming, so I have to concentrate really hard on this stuff!), I've got a couple of questions.

 

I've been looking at a group I've pulled from - I think - the "simple mission" (!) posted by SYN_Haashashin here. I think - but I don't know for sure - that this group is designed to activate a flight of Pe-2s when the player's aeroplane is within a certain range (6000m) and deactivate the flight when the player's aeroplane is further than 9000m. This is the group (I've pulled the elements around a bit, to try to make it clearer):

 

activate%20group_zpssdtgkwnz.jpg

 

In this picture, I've hidden the green "object lines". They almost all point to the Pe-2s in the top left corner.

 

Anyway, some questions:

 

Firstly, do "activate" and "deactivate" mean the same as "spawn" and "despawn" in other sims?

 

Secondly, I'd like to see if I can explain this. At mission start (1), the game checks (2),if... the player is in the check zone (9000m). It has an object link (green arrow) to the player's aeroplane. Here's the next question - in advanced properties, this trigger has Neutral, Al lies and Axis all set to "False"!  If everything is "false" does the game just check for the player?

 

Now, if the trigger "fires", it does a few things. Instantly it "activates" the Pe-2s (4b). Also, with a 3-second delay, (5) triggers the waypoint, and with a 4 second delay, it gives the Pe-2s a formation command (6). 

 

Here's where it gets interesting: After 10 seconds (3a) + 3 seconds (3b), the Check Zone trigger also causes a proximity check (3c) which checks the distance between the player and the Pe-2s. If the distance is greater than 9000m, it fires the Deactive trigger (3d) and the Pe-2s cease to be!

 

But that's not all it does. It also fires a closer proximity check (6000m), again between the player and the Pe-2s. If the distance is less than 6000m, it activates (again) the Pe-2s (4b again) and starts it on its patrol (5), via a strange 0-second timer labelled "continue". However, it also (via the timer 3b), triggers the "out of range" 9000m proximity check (3c). If the Pe2s are closer to the player than 9000m, presumably the Pe2s just carry on to their waypoint.

 

If the above is correct, a few more questions! Firstly,After the out of range trigger (3c) makes its check  a second time, does this group finish? The Pe-2s are not further than 9000m from the player, so the check doesn't deactivate them and doesn't trigger the (4a) proximity check? If so, is this all a bit too complex? what does it do that a simple "check zone" trigger doesn't do? I can see - I think - that it should deactivate the Pe-2s if the player goes further away from them than 9000m, but I can't see how, unless the (3c) check is triggerred regularly. What am I missing?

 

Or, once they are activated, do the triggers automatically and continuously check the distance between the player and the Pe-2s?

 

Secondly, both 3c and 4a proximity triggers measure - I think - the distance between the player and the Pe2s (through object links), but in their "advanced properties", Neutral, Allies and Axis "plane coalitions" are all "false" (like the check zone trigger). Is this important, or not relevant here?

 

Lastly, there's the deactivate trigger at the bottom (7). There's a two-way target link between it and the check zone trigger (2). Does this mean that after it's triggered (at the start of the mission), it's instantly deactivated again - after setting up the other activity?

 

So, would you end up with the check zone trigger (2) firing once, the activate trigger (4b) firing once, the deactivate trigger (3d) firing 13 seconds later, the twon proximity triggers both constantly checking the distance between the player and the Pe-2s, then (eventually) the activate trigger (4b) firing a second time when the player is 6000m from the Pe-2s' ghost location?

 

Sorry this is a looooooong post. It's mostly me just thinking aloud, trying to work out this particular group. But I think if I get this straight in my mind, I think it'll help with other groups and triggers...

 

Hope it's not boring (or really really stupid!), but might be useful for others who are scratching their heads...

 

Anyway, any comments or answers to my questions and corrections where I've got stuff completely wrong will gratefully received!

 

(Sorry if the red target links aren't very easy to see. I changed the time of day in the ME to try to make them clearer, but maybe the opposite has happened.)

Edited by No601_Swallow

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Here's another question! 

 

If I'm right and the Pe-2s are activated soon after the mssion starts (go off towards their first waypoint), but are then deactivated 13 seconds later, I assume they disappear from the game visually. But are they also gone from the mission? Or does the game track their ghost locations? 

 

If after this the proximity checks are checking the distance between the player and the Pe-2s, but the Pe-2s are deactivated, they they check the distance between the player and the Pe2s' start position, the position they were when they deactivated, the ghost position they'd have if they continued to follow their waypoints?

 

Or are these just stupid questions? I think I sound like my son when he was 7 - "How big is the universe? Why is the sky blue? Why do cows go 'Moo'?..."


Read it on the phone, will answer you later today...I'd I'm sober enought hehehehe

 

The answer will probably be better after lots of beer (or wine!)

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Ok, I better answer this now..later it will be imposible for me.

First let me say that I shouldnt use the "Simple misión" when uploading it to the Sharing Corner, my sincere apology.

Secondly, its needed to know that those groups that I use are the work of years with the ME by SYN_Vander, all I did is understand his work ;) .

Now to the matter here...

 

Firstly, do "activate" and "deactivate" mean the same as "spawn" and "despawn" in other sims?

In this case, yes. Be aware that there is also a Spawn trigger that I use for single player AAA. I never use the last one for planes but it may be possible.

 

 

Secondly, I'd like to see if I can explain this. At mission start (1), the game checks (2),if... the player is in the check zone (9000m). It has an object link (green arrow) to the player's aeroplane. Here's the next question - in advanced properties, this trigger has Neutral, Al lies and Axis all set to "False"!  If everything is "false" does the game just check for the player?

At (1) the (2) its only activated but not in use. As soon as the player get closer tan 9000m, the (2) is triggered this is set by the advanced properties. In this particular case as the object we want is a particular plane we use the object link. Thats why it doesnt matter the country set to "false". In case you want to check for a certain country only (to show subtitles in screen to that side only for example) is when you change the countries settings. If (2) is not linked to an object or have a country selected, it wont check nothing and wont work.

 

Now, if the trigger "fires", it does a few things. Instantly it "activates" the Pe-2s (4b). Also, with a 3-second delay, (5) triggers the waypoint, and with a 4 second delay, it gives the Pe-2s a formation command (6). 

 

 Correct.

But that's not all it does. It also fires a closer proximity check (6000m), again between the player and the Pe-2s. If the distance is less than 6000m, it activates (again) the Pe-2s (4b again) and starts it on its patrol (5), via a strange 0-second timer labelled "continue". However, it also (via the timer 3b), triggers the "out of range" 9000m proximity check (3c). If the Pe2s are closer to the player than 9000m, presumably the Pe2s just carry on to their waypoint.

 OK, The thing is...when (2) is triggered for the first time the player come inside the set range, is desactivated and at the same time activate a buckle, (3a) will trigger (3b) which will trigger Out of range (3c) which as its name says it will descativate the planes once the player is out of the range set, for the first time. Also this (3c) will trigger (remember is triggered when the plane is actually out of range, no before) the In range (4a) which from now on will act like the check zone MCU. (4a) will activate the planes again and start the trigger again (3b) so there you have the buckle for the in/out range player.

 

Hope is clear :lol:

 

If the above is correct, a few more questions! Firstly,After the out of range trigger (3c) makes its check  a second time, does this group finish? The Pe-2s are not further than 9000m from the player, so the check doesn't deactivate them and doesn't trigger the (4a) proximity check? If so, is this all a bit too complex? what does it do that a simple "check zone" trigger doesn't do? I can see - I think - that it should deactivate the Pe-2s if the player goes further away from them than 9000m, but I can't see how, unless the (3c) check is triggerred regularly. What am I missing?

See above.

 

Secondly, both 3c and 4a proximity triggers measure - I think - the distance between the player and the Pe2s (through object links), but in their "advanced properties", Neutral, Allies and Axis "plane coalitions" are all "false" (like the check zone trigger). Is this important, or not relevant here?

Same as before, since you want it to be triggered by the player, no need of country.

 

Lastly, there's the deactivate trigger at the bottom (7). There's a two-way target link between it and the check zone trigger (2). Does this mean that after it's triggered (at the start of the mission), it's instantly deactivated again - after setting up the other activity?

Exactly, after the Buckle formed by (4a) (3b) (3c) is active there is no need of the Check zone (2)

 

So, would you end up with the check zone trigger (2) firing once, the activate trigger (4b) firing once, the deactivate trigger (3d) firing 13 seconds later, the twon proximity triggers both constantly checking the distance between the player and the Pe-2s, then (eventually) the activate trigger (4b) firing a second time when the player is 6000m from the Pe-2s' ghost location?

Player is in range, first time, activate (2) by that. This activate the buckle formed by (4a) (3b) (3a) which will activate and desactivate the Pe-2 as needed, when in range and out of it. The 0 sec on the "Continue" trigger is a bug, even if the group Works like that it will be better to have at least 1 sec.

 

If I'm right and the Pe-2s are activated soon after the mssion starts (go off towards their first waypoint), but are then deactivated 13 seconds later, I assume they disappear from the game visually. But are they also gone from the mission? Or does the game track their ghost locations? 

As above, Pe-2 will activate only when the player is on range. The check zone is active but not funtional untill the player is closer than the set distance. If player is not near, they are gone visually untill player get closer again.

 

If after this the proximity checks are checking the distance between the player and the Pe-2s, but the Pe-2s are deactivated, they they check the distance between the player and the Pe2s' start position, the position they were when they deactivated, the ghost position they'd have if they continued to follow their waypoints?

Not sure, but I think they dont gosht travel to their waypoints.

 

Ok, now a beer or 3 more :lol:

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:drinks: Great stuff Haashashin! Next time, one of those beers will be bought by me!  I think I more or less understand this!  :cool:

Edited by No601_Swallow

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