Pre-order and early access - discussion

[--loner--Dovla]

anyway guys if you haven't noticed 

this discussion is useless, it is publicly advertised for about two weeks that if you preorder you get this and that

 

so lets have fun and keep it real :-)

 

 

can someone just explain to me , if for example I am the only person in the game (and wider) who will get those infamous gunpods, what will actually be my advantage over others ? enemy team will have their founders on board too, and this game is not designed so all encounters are between same aircraft

 

I really do not understand all this fuss. It's not like "founders" will be flying migs and tornadoes over stalingrad

 

whatever

 

i d like some warm woman ass for coming winter days (with no strings attached)

[Revvin]

can someone just explain to me , if for example I am the only person in the game (and wider) who will get those infamous gunpods, what will actually be my advantage over others ? enemy team will have their founders on board too, and this game is not designed so all encounters are between same aircraft

 

 

The 'advantage' if you want to call it that is blown out of proportion and if people are so worried about 'equality' lets forget historical accuracy and just make all the aircraft perform exactly the same and all the weapons do the same damage, then everyone will be happy?

[Jochen]

can someone just explain to me, if for example I am the only person in the game (and wider) who will get those infamous gunpods, what will actually be my advantage over others?

 

More male admirers?

Seriously, this "Bf.109 R7 exclusively for Founders or not" discussion and subsequent poll only serves to divide.

Just like all the other in-game Founders exclusives. Someone needs to step in and put this discussion to an end.

Edited October 13, 2013 by Jochen

[SKG51_robtek]

Seriously, there is a difference between nice bling bling, like special skins and a weapon mod, which in some situations brings real advantages, like strafing or bomber intercept.

It wouldn't be used to dogfight, of course.

Even if the advantages are limited, they are present, as the disadvantage for non-founders in those situations.

It is the descicion of the devs, anyway.

They have the poll and can take action accordingly.

[Jochen]

Seriously, there is a difference between nice bling bling, like special skins and a weapon mod, which in some situations brings real advantages, like strafing or bomber intercept.

 

IL-2 rear gun mod ... poll?

[I/JG27_Rollo]

Why?

 

Everyone can get the rear gun mod.

Some will have it unlocked from the start.

Fine as it is.

[Jochen]

Then that's the way to go with all Founders exclusives. End of discussion (,^^)

Edited October 13, 2013 by Jochen

[Rjel]

IL-2 rear gun mod ... poll?

No for the very reason Bearcat stated yesterday in response to your post. This is beginning to boarder on the absurd. Email the developers if you feel this is a deal breaker as far as BoS is concerned.

[Jochen]

Oh, because the R7 mod was an after-thought in the pre-order campaign and not meant to be so exclusive after all. I'm sorry for misreading then. It's not a deal-breaker, but I would like to believe what is advertised. And like stated before, I'm done with this discussion.

Edited October 14, 2013 by Jochen

[Feathered_IV]

It's very important to be gracious when being presented with a gift.

As someone who is appreciative of the gesture and the goodwill with which it was intended, its embarrassing to see the thing dragged out, fought over and dissected to find its value. The devs have tried to do something nice. To give something for nothing, and they are the ones being made to feel bad for it. Really bad form on the part of the community here and I'm sure it will discourage them from ever doing something a little extra for us again.

[=RvE=Windmills]

It's very important to be gracious when being presented with a gift.

As someone who is appreciative of the gesture and the goodwill with which it was intended, its embarrassing to see the thing dragged out, fought over and dissected to find its value. The devs have tried to do something nice. To give something for nothing, and they are the ones being made to feel bad for it. Really bad form on the part of the community here and I'm sure it will discourage them from ever doing something a little extra for us again.

 

 

Totally missing the point.

 

The forum is there for discussion, things people disagree on will get discussed. It isn't strange in the slightest that people who have fronted 90 dollars up front for a game that's not close to being done feel like having input on matters like this. Saying it's somehow embarrassing towards anyone is funny.

 

The community coming together and discussing what's in the best interest of the game as a whole, even if it only disadvantages them by sharing this gift with everyone else is an admirable thing. It's a perfect example of a community that cares about the game and the ability of the developers to listen to their reasonable concerns.

 

Trying to drag it down by making it out like people are being 'ungrateful' is frankly downright sad and completely misguided.

Edited October 14, 2013 by iLOVEwindmills

[SKG51_robtek]

Totally missing the point.

 

The forum is there for discussion, things people disagree on will get discussed. It isn't strange in the slightest that people who have fronted 90 dollars up front for a game that's not close to being done feel like having input on matters like this. Saying it's somehow embarrassing towards anyone is funny.

 

The community coming together and discussing what's in the best interest of the game as a whole, even if it only disadvantages them by sharing this gift with everyone else is an admirable thing. It's a perfect example of a community that cares about the game and the ability of the developers to listen to their reasonable concerns.

 

Trying to drag it down by making it out like people are being 'ungrateful' is frankly downright sad and completely misguided.

Couldn't have said it better! 

[adonys]

first of all, please stop talking about it as a "gift". 777 runs a business, with the sole purpose of making profit, and it's crystal clear that the addition of this mod to the pre-order offer is a marketing strategy to boost the pre-order number from blue sided potential customers area (for which the IL2 rear mod "gift" didn't had any real value).

 

now, having the "gift" issue clarified, have a look at the pool, and see that the majority of the voters, consisting of 2/3s from all the voters, are willing to not have this mod as an exclusive founders mod. the rest of it, it's up to 777...

Edited October 14, 2013 by adonys

[Mac_Messer]

Trying to drag it down by making it out like people are being 'ungrateful' is frankly downright sad and completely misguided.

Agreed. It is perfectly ok for a founder to accept this "gift" and not care. Now with that said, it is quite strange when such a "gifted" person wants to interfere with others` opinions on the "gift", which is dictated mostly by latecomers not being able to get the mod at all. Diminishing of others` opinions solely because the gifted don`t like them is unfair, plain and simple.

[Shea]

Come on devs,open the beta already

[SKG51_robtek]

Come on devs,open the beta already

+1 

[FlatSpinMan]

This discussion is over, surely? The devs listened to feedback, made a poll,now we're waiting for the results.

[Kaenzdhi]

It's very important to be gracious when being presented with a gift.

As someone who is appreciative of the gesture and the goodwill with which it was intended, its embarrassing to see the thing dragged out, fought over and dissected to find its value. The devs have tried to do something nice. To give something for nothing, and they are the ones being made to feel bad for it. Really bad form on the part of the community here and I'm sure it will discourage them from ever doing something a little extra for us again.

^^ THIS

[71st_AH_Mastiff]

I really don't think that is what is intended, if they feel slighted for giving back to the community, I will personally apologize for us all.

I think it was a great heartfelt gesture, and many of us appreciate the offer, but to be fair an honest, it should be available to all, and given free to the founders as a gift. not used as a purchase tool.

[Shea]

Too be fair all the founders here have pre-ordered the game to help 1C and 777,and make IL2:BOS a success.Is it really that much to ask for a exact date on when the beta will be released.Is it?

[DD_bongodriver]

They could give the planned release date but we have all seen the kind of rabid hordes that the flight sim community can conjure up if a target is missed.

[FlatSpinMan]

Exactly. Any slip wuld be seized upon as evidence that they can't do their jobs properly,

[Caudron431]

Totally missing the point.

 

The forum is there for discussion, things people disagree on will get discussed. It isn't strange in the slightest that people who have fronted 90 dollars up front for a game that's not close to being done feel like having input on matters like this. Saying it's somehow embarrassing towards anyone is funny.

 

The community coming together and discussing what's in the best interest of the game as a whole, even if it only disadvantages them by sharing this gift with everyone else is an admirable thing. It's a perfect example of a community that cares about the game and the ability of the developers to listen to their reasonable concerns.

 

Trying to drag it down by making it out like people are being 'ungrateful' is frankly downright sad and completely misguided.

Thanks for this post! I think you expressed very well the feeling of the (so far) majority of founders. One of the important thing that led to the huge success of the original IL2 (IL2 1946) is the equality in the material and airplane in the game.

 

But another reason is certainly also the admirable community members presence and generosity. The original IL2 1946 community is such a friendly one, most buyers of the new sim will certainly expect to find it the same: IL2 is not just the name of a game, it means a lot more than that: a community in which some are exactly admirable people.

If we now start to have privileges under the form of restricted mods, it could weaken this original community spirit. And to me this can be a threat to the sim as i'm sure this spirit has played a huge role in the incredible fate of Oleg Maddox IL2. It is this kind of behaviour: generosity and care for the interest of the game and community equality (before self interest, against legal -though unfair to us- priviledges) that made IL2 original that great. At least this is my impression.

 

As for the last sentence in you post i must say that i agree it is sad but i think we should not use the word misguided: remember that founders that ask for the gunpod mod exclusivity are making a "legal" request. It is not them that created the situation: they just want to get the thing they paid for, which is nothing wrong per se. We cannot expect or force all community members to take the community interest as more important. Some people want to be founders to help recreate the original fantastic IL2 community, and other want to be founder to have higher position in a hierarchy. Nothing wrong with it. As i said we cannot blame people just because they are normal people. But i don't think we should use the word "misguided", perhaps it is too strong. Remember times are hard for this genre, and they helped by preordering when the team needed money the most. We must thank them for that.

 

PS Thanks for your post again: i play WW2 sim thanks to guys like you and i preordered just to vote and to be among guys like you.

[Freycinet]

makes you wonder how far is 777 willing to go in order to secure some extra cash..

Oh yes, indeed, one really wonders at some people and how they sully themselves with earning money, just to 'make a living' or some such silly excuse.

[LLv44_Mprhead]

We wanted to have a poll about it and now there is a poll. And that is enough for me and whatever the result, I will be happy with that.

[Rjel]

This discussion is over, surely? The devs listened to feedback, made a poll,now we're waiting for the results.

Please make it so.

[Bearcat]

Considering that this thread was started in order to foster discussion on the pre order and early access it will not be closed but I would ask that anyone who participates in the discussion please remain civil and non condescending in order to facilitate a more meaningful and productive discussion as opposed to some of the banter back and forth over the past few pages.

 

Thank you for your cooperation.

[adonys]

Oh yes, indeed, one really wonders at some people and how they sully themselves with earning money, just to 'make a living' or some such silly excuse.

dear mate, I'm sure that, as the mature person you are, you must certainly be aware that there are ways and ways to earn money, that there are ways and ways to live and that accordingly there are ways and ways multiplied by ways and ways to earn money to make a living.

 

and all of the above without taking into consideration that a business is not trying to make a living, but actually is trying to make a profit (ie the values remaining after you're deducing all their expenses from their income venues) for it's owner(s). and I'm positive you agree that there's nothing wrong with a business making profit, as well as that there are differences between profits (estabilished by comparing the profit with the expenses) and that there are also ways and ways to make these profits.

 

I do not know about you, but excuse me that, when a certain business making a 50$ RPG is asking 5$ for a horse armor DLC, I might find that outrageous.

[Original_Uwe]

dear mate, I'm sure that, as the mature person you are, you must certainly be aware that there are ways and ways to earn money, that there are ways and ways to live and that accordingly there are ways and ways multiplied by ways and ways to earn money to make a living.

 

and all of the above without taking into consideration that a business is not trying to make a living, but actually is trying to make a profit (ie the values remaining after you're deducing all their expenses from their income venues) for it's owner(s). and I'm positive you agree that there's nothing wrong with a business making profit, as well as that there are differences between profits (estabilished by comparing the profit with the expenses) and that there are also ways and ways to make these profits.

 

I do not know about you, but excuse me that, when a certain business making a 50$ RPG is asking 5$ for a horse armor DLC, I might find that outrageous.

That last part, why is that outrageous?

This it's a business, not a religion.

Making money and staying in business is the name of the game. If you want purity and rectitude go to a house of worship.

ETA: You have to pay for quality.

But remember to vote with your dollars. If it's really offensive to you I'm sure you will demand a refund.

Edited October 15, 2013 by CWMV

[adonys]

this actually requires a somewhat longer and more detailed answer, an answer which uses economic concepts like "efficiency courve" and "market ethics", but I'll get back to it later on

Edited October 15, 2013 by adonys

[Rama]

.../... but I'll get back to it later on

Better don't.

This isn't the subject of this thread, neither of any other thread of this forum.

[Revvin]

this actually requires a somewhat longer and more detailed answer, an answer which uses economic concepts like "efficiency courve" and "market ethics", but I'll get back to it later on

Please don't, this thread as Bearcat says was to discuss the pre-order and early access and it's turned into arguing over a gift or incentive for pre-orders. I don't recall such consternation over a company giving something away like this before and 777 are hardly the first to do so. I feel that certain posters are being rather disingenuous over this matter whether they are paid up founders or not and have made their negative views on BoS well known over the past year and seem to revel in any mischief they might make.

[Rama]

I feel that certain posters are being rather disingenuous over this matter whether they are paid up founders or not and have made their negative views on BoS well known over the past year and seem to revel in any mischief they might make.

Is it possible to have a calm dicussion here without stigmatizing as group of posters just because they give their opinion?

All the founders showed their support to BoS by paying for an account, and sometimes by gifting accounts. None of them have an agenda against the game, they just have opinions about the gift exclusiveness and every right to express it, and that's one ot the subject of the discussion and the subject of the poll.

[Livai]

The next surprise would be if there would be no difference between Standard and Premium early access. Premium and Standard get access at the same time. 

[Matt]

Well, the early access for the normal preorder is unmistakenly Winter 2013 (not Winter 2013/2014), so the more the premium access gets delayed towards the end of the year, the less of an advantage for the premium preorders in this regard.

[Shea]

The next surprise would be if there would be no difference between Standard and Premium early access. Premium and Standard get access at the same time. 

If that happens i think i will change my order to standard edition

[TheBlackPenguin]

Well, the early access for the normal preorder is unmistakenly Winter 2013 (not Winter 2013/2014), so the more the premium access gets delayed towards the end of the year, the less of an advantage for the premium preorders in this regard.

 

The further the Alpha gets pushed back, the further standard also gets pushed back, if indeed anything has been pushed back or delayed in this regard. I know we're all chewing through the bit to get our paws on the Alpha, but we just have to be patient.

[Bearcat]

The next surprise would be if there would be no difference between Standard and Premium early access. Premium and Standard get access at the same time. 

 

That will not happen.. That would be disingenuous. Besides Standard does not have the La & the FW 190.

 

Well, the early access for the normal preorder is unmistakenly Winter 2013 (not Winter 2013/2014), so the more the premium access gets delayed towards the end of the year, the less of an advantage for the premium preorders in this regard.

 

Yes but this is not etched in stone and if there is anyone here who dropped their cash for this then they should also be smart enough to know that projects like this get delayed. It happens. Often. Whether or not that is the case here I do not know but knowing the devs if it were we more than likely would have been informed since they have been straight up from day one. Also as stated ... the Premium will still get the La and the 190 so... be happy.

 

 

If that happens i think i will change my order to standard edition

 

I don't know how doable that would be.. It's like going to the barber in reverse..  Once you cut it you cant add it back.. if you bought Standard and want to go Premium that is a matter of adding the difference.. but do you really expect the devs to refund you the difference because the pre order was not released on your schedule? This is just my opinion here and not an "official" statement .. but I don't think that is going to happen.

 

The further the Alpha gets pushed back, the further standard also gets pushed back, if indeed anything has been pushed back or delayed in this regard. I know we're all chewing through the bit to get our paws on the Alpha, but we just have to be patient.

^^^^^^^^^^

This... Look guys you all need to calm down here and some of you need to stop acting like children. This team has been as straight up as anything I have ever seen so it will be released when it is ready and not before. So we have no choice but to suck it up and wait. All this demanding and whining and threatening just makes those who do it look like silly children...... or people on a J.G. Wentworth commercial.. so just chillaxx ........... 

[Trident_109]

Well, the early access for the normal preorder is unmistakenly Winter 2013 (not Winter 2013/2014), so the more the premium access gets delayed towards the end of the year, the less of an advantage for the premium preorders in this regard.

I'd imagine both versions have plateaus or certain developmental requirements have to be reached that preclude either version from being released. If the premium version is delayed because it has not reached the point of development needed for an effective release (whatever 777 determines that would be) that would mean that the standard version would have the added delay plus the potential delays that may occur during the standard development process.

 

As far as winter 2013 verses winter 2013/2014, I think you're stretching. Winter covers from Dec - March just like fall covers September to December. The year is irrelevant.

[Dakpilot]

Winter 2014 would seem to me Dec 2014

 

"As far as winter 2013 verses winter 2013/2014, I think you're stretching. Winter covers from Dec - March just like fall covers September to December. The year is irrelevant."

 

THIS.

 

Way too much petty over analyzing going on...not aimed at anyone in particular  am sure all that needs to be said is it is likely going to be two weeks now,   or maybe three if a late dev problem and is early Nov

as has been stated

 

Cheers Dakpilot