Pre-order and early access - discussion

[thx1138]

That exactly it Bearcat .... its a choice, simple. Yet it amazes me, we've gone through some very lean years for both flightsims and combat flightsims in general. Man o man now we have some movement, we finally are seeing some hope for this tiny genre we all have loved for years .... and people go off the rails forum wise like always. One can always get a refund, one can always buy all of them, one could be happy we have so much going on .... I for one am excited as hell, we the players have it good for the first time in a long time ... we have multiple choices, how good does that get?  ~S

 

 

+1

 

[Rigsby]

That exactly it Bearcat .... its a choice, simple. Yet it amazes me, we've gone through some very lean years for both flightsims and combat flightsims in general. Man o man now we have some movement, we finally are seeing some hope for this tiny genre we all have loved for years .... and people go off the rails forum wise like always. One can always get a refund, one can always buy all of them, one could be happy we have so much going on .... I for one am excited as hell, we the players have it good for the first time in a long time ... we have multiple choices, how good does that get?  ~S

Here, Here, I totally agree with this. The Rollercoaster just got started and there is panic before the first dip. Grab the sick bag because by the end of it you're are going to want to carry on.

Edited October 27, 2013 by Rigsby

[AndyJWest]

That exactly it Bearcat .... its a choice, simple. Yet it amazes me, we've gone through some very lean years for both flightsims and combat flightsims in general. Man o man now we have some movement, we finally are seeing some hope for this tiny genre we all have loved for years .... and people go off the rails forum wise like always. One can always get a refund, one can always buy all of them, one could be happy we have so much going on .... I for one am excited as hell, we the players have it good for the first time in a long time ... we have multiple choices, how good does that get?  ~S

 

Yup. Things are looking good - and given a few months, this current kerfuffle will be forgotten.

[Bumfluff]

The restricted alpha access will not be limited to certain hours will it? I'm in Australia and am worried time zones could make that impossible.

[Mac_Messer]

Mac that statement makes no sense. Why would 1CGS make a "counter offer" they provided two options and it was up to us to take one or not. It is that simple. You chose not.. You chose to support DCS WWII and that is your choice. It still won't get you anything until at least a year.. and again that is your choice.

Ofcourse it makes sense. I could spend $30 on September, $10 more on October. There was no BoS package that I could buy at such price. Hard to say anything about a choice here.

[Bearcat]

Ofcourse it makes sense. I could spend $30 on September, $10 more on October. There was no BoS package that I could buy at such price. Hard to say anything about a choice here.

Yeah but that money guarantees you nothing. $50 now in BoS guarantees you .. or at least promises with a heck of a lot more certainty than anything from DCSWWII at least as of today a fully functional release in 9 months or less and a working beta sooner than that ...and yeah you do have a choice.. You can chose to spend your money on a product that is scheduled... if all goes well for release a year from now.. which has had no real solid info released on it yet or you could choose to spend on a product that has had steady consistent information released on it for almost a year and will soon have a limited working alpha for release in less than 21 days.. although even all that is not enough for some... They still see a half empty glass and would prefer to spend their money on a drawing of a proposed glass....

[Mac_Messer]

I guess things could have been different if the kickstarter campaign was longer. Besides, for DCSWWII the 100.000 goal meant a new WWII sim born or cancelled at the very start. If I had more cash to burn I`d probably would have supported both titles. BoS is already made and most probably will make the release, at what state is not yet known. Not to mention the early access schedule which actually for me would have meant no access at all. Nevertheless, most of that is purely hipothetical as BoS`s cheapest package was out of my reach. 

[Bumfluff]

The restricted alpha access will not be limited to certain hours will it? I'm in Australia and am worried time zones could make that impossible.

Anyone?

[Bearcat]

See developer Diary 38. The short answer is yes initially it will be limited. Before you begin to type consider that this has been beaten to death. No one is happy about it but some of us are more upset than others. If you fall on the side of the more upset please do not rehash any of the same rants that have been raging since last Friday.

[Bumfluff]

Er - hang on. I paid for alpha access but will not be able to access it?

[Sim]

@Bearcat: I think the question is whether the early access will be somehow hour limited in addition to the 3 day thing.y E.g. during the work hours of BoS team or something like that. I doubt it personally.

Edited October 29, 2013 by Sim

[FlatSpinMan]

It will initially be limited to 72 hours continuous access between Tuesday and Thursday Moscow Time. Then it will be extended, though we don't know when, yet.

[SYN_Bandy]

The restricted alpha access will not be limited to certain hours will it? I'm in Australia and am worried time zones could make that impossible.

Related to this...

 

I have been thinking a lot about the early access/beta testing being only on Tues, Weds, Thurs.  If I missed something and these days have changed, please let me know.  I realize I risk being looked upon as a complainer, but I cannot remain silent.

 

You see, my commute into work starts at 4 AM, and get home just in time for dinner with family, spend time with my young son before his bedtime routine, and hate to admit, but my bedtime follows shortly afterwards.  It is the price thousands of us pay for working in and living outside of the Washington D.C. metro area.  I am sure many people in large cities around the world are in a similar situation.

 

Therefore I will not be able to partake in any of the early access that I paid a 'premium' price for, at least not until something changes.  Can't say I'm happy, feeling a little sore around my backside (and not in a good way) given these playable days are now announced well after purchase.  If this makes me a complainer and troublemaker in your eyes, that is your prerogative to have an opinion. 

 

I sincerely hope the developers will think about people in this position. Understand that I am making a heartfelt plea to include at least one weekend day in the early access.

 

Most Sincerely...

Edited October 29, 2013 by SYN_Bandy

[FlatSpinMan]

Nope, you're fine saying that. Tons of us are in similar situations ( though how long is your commute?!) and are hoping the initial limited access won't last too long.

[SYN_Bandy]

Nope, you're fine saying that. Tons of us are in similar situations ( though how long is your commute?!) and are hoping the initial limited access won't last too long.

How long?  I have to drive to catch a commuter bus in Frederick MD, then ride the Red Line DC Metro (subway) from Shady Grove into the city, transfer to the Green Line and ride to the end (Suitland) on the other side.  So from Northwest to Southeast.  They changed my duty station to Suitland about 2 years ago, coinciding with the realestate collapse.  Several other reasons why it is not convenient to move, including wife's job, etc.  So I suffer. 

 

Many travel further than I do, commuting into DC from Pennslyvania and West Virginia.

[FlatSpinMan]

That sounds terrible. How many hours? And are you paying for all that, too? One good thing about Japanese companies is that they pay your transport costs. That's about it though in terms of good points, generally.

[thx1138]

Related to this...

 

I have been thinking a lot about the early access/beta testing being only on Tues, Weds, Thurs.  If I missed something and these days have changed, please let me know.  I realize I risk being looked upon as a complainer, but I cannot remain silent.

 

You see, my commute into work starts at 4 AM, and get home just in time for dinner with family, spend time with my young son before his bedtime routine, and hate to admit, but my bedtime follows shortly afterwards.  It is the price thousands of us pay for working in and living outside of the Washington D.C. metro area.  I am sure many people in large cities around the world are in a similar situation.

 

Therefore I will not be able to partake in any of the early access that I paid a 'premium' price for, at least not until something changes.  Can't say I'm happy, feeling a little sore around my backside (and not in a good way) given these playable days are now announced well after purchase.  If this makes me a complainer and troublemaker in your eyes, that is your prerogative to have an opinion. 

 

I sincerely hope the developers will think about people in this position. Understand that I am making a heartfelt plea to include at least one weekend day in the early access.

 

Most Sincerely...

 

 

Wow, all these people from the Wash DC area (I came from Alex. VA) nice to see.

 

Brandy, try to look at it as I do. We know how good ROF is, and therefore we paid in early to BOS to help the devs out so we could get the ball rolling and rolling along well.

To me early access of any kind is just a bonus. Personally I still remember the glitches in some of the ROF updates and fully expect some of the same with BOS. So I hope paying early will help with that. Tho with an alpha ver I expect some problems, so be it.

 

And just think, a year from now all of this early access worrying will be forgotten.

 

And you will just like in ROF be making the best training viewos EVER ! I still go to them to get learn about ROF tho I've not played in a while.

 

A new move and couple of deaths in the family, plus taking care of critters/farm just leave me with short blocks of time to get on the net, and I'm retired too. If you think retiring gives one a lot of free time think again !

 

 

Allan

[SYN_Bandy]

It's Bandy BTW...  Your mind on a drink this early in the morning?

 

I am an open beta tester for RoF, and happy to do my bit reporting bugs there, though for that title I volunteer...  I am very much aware of how buggy things will be on early BoS release.

[TheBlackPenguin]

See developer Diary 38. The short answer is yes initially it will be limited. Before you begin to type consider that this has been beaten to death. No one is happy about it but some of us are more upset than others. If you fall on the side of the more upset please do not rehash any of the same rants that have been raging since last Friday.

 

 

Expectations weren't met, really as simple as that I feel. My expectation is to have something along the lines of either the free flight with basic targets like you can choose in ROF, or basic airquake style against opponents, in other words a really basic Alpha, but the early access from Tuesday to Thursday cannot stay that way for long. Any possibility of collecting logs  when offline which can be sent in at next login? Obviously this is more aimed at the developers.

[Foobar]

Er - hang on. I paid for alpha access but will not be able to access it?

No, you've paid for the game wich will be finished in Q2 2014. The early access is a bonus for what you've given the money and therefore it can't be bought.

 

Stay calm and take it.

[Rjel]

I keep thinking that beyond the limited access being a problem for some, maybe quite a few for all I know, is the promise of unrestricted access in the near future. While I'm sure many had visions of flying long missions with squad mates or massive furballs right from the start, maybe, just maybe if as many of us as possible log into BoS ASAP, then whatever the developers are looking for will be found quickly leading to longer playtime. It sure beats all the angst floating around.

[DD_bongodriver]

No, I think mostly everybody expected unrestricted (including offline) access to a very alpha version of the game from early November, notions of having large numbers logged in early on are unrealistic because the main issue with a 72 hour Moscow time midweek programme is that many outside of that timezone will have limited time due to real life constraints, no matter how many of the unaffected explain how their lives will allow for it they have to accept other people have different problems, this leaves the longevity of this early limited access program open to debate.

[Rjel]

No, I think mostly everybody expected unrestricted (including offline) access to a very alpha version of the game from early November, notions of having large numbers logged in early on are unrealistic because the main issue with a 72 hour Moscow time midweek programme is that many outside of that timezone will have limited time due to real life constraints, no matter how many of the unaffected explain how their lives will allow for it they have to accept other people have different problems, this leaves the longevity of this early limited access program open to debate.

Might be so but we won't know for sure til it starts. Something tells me a lot of the complaints will give way to a good number of people finding time they claimed they didn't have. Guess we'll see.

[dburne]

I keep thinking that beyond the limited access being a problem for some, maybe quite a few for all I know, is the promise of unrestricted access in the near future. While I'm sure many had visions of flying long missions with squad mates or massive furballs right from the start, maybe, just maybe if as many of us as possible log into BoS ASAP, then whatever the developers are looking for will be found quickly leading to longer playtime. It sure beats all the angst floating around.

 

I only had a vision, of being able to play this sim early as advertised to me on the webpage I ordered the Premium Edition on. I even envisioned that of course it would probably be an alpha, and be missing many items that will eventually make it into the product, as well as some bugs. I never envisioned that it will be severely limited to times/days one can access it, and due to my work requirements I will not be able to have this early access while it remains on those days. Quite frankly the more I read this forum, along with some of the responses I have seen, and the more I think about it, the more I do not like it and regret having done the pre-order. This whole thing has left a very sour taste in my mouth - speaking for myself of course.

 

I will be focusing my flight sim interest elsewhere, for the next several weeks at least. Thankfully we do have choices.

Edited October 30, 2013 by dburnette

[Bearcat]

How long?  I have to drive to catch a commuter bus in Frederick MD, then ride the Red Line DC Metro (subway) from Shady Grove into the city, transfer to the Green Line and ride to the end (Suitland) on the other side.  So from Northwest to Southeast.  They changed my duty station to Suitland about 2 years ago, coinciding with the realestate collapse.  Several other reasons why it is not convenient to move, including wife's job, etc.  So I suffer.  

Many travel further than I do, commuting into DC from Pennslyvania and West Virginia.

 

 

Wow, all these people from the Wash DC area (I came from Alex. VA) nice to see.

 

Brandy, try to look at it as I do. We know how good ROF is, and therefore we paid in early to BOS to help the devs out so we could get the ball rolling and rolling along well.

To me early access of any kind is just a bonus. Personally I still remember the glitches in some of the ROF updates and fully expect some of the same with BOS. So I hope paying early will help with that. Tho with an alpha ver I expect some problems, so be it.

 

And just think, a year from now all of this early access worrying will be forgotten.

 

And you will just like in ROF be making the best training viewos EVER ! I still go to them to get learn about ROF tho I've not played in a while.

 

A new move and couple of deaths in the family, plus taking care of critters/farm just leave me with short blocks of time to get on the net, and I'm retired too. If you think retiring gives one a lot of free time think again ! 

Allan

I am in Woodbridge .. and I am in Alexandria all the time.. but I go as far up as Bel Aire although not for a while now.. but Rockville and Bowie and of course D.C. are not uncommon

 

 

I only had a vision, of being able to play this sim early as advertised to me on the webpage I ordered the Premium Edition on. I even envisioned that of course it would probably be an alpha, and be missing many items that will eventually make it into the product, as well as some bugs. I never envisioned that it will be severely limited to times/days one can access it, and due to my work requirements I will not be able to have this early access while it remains on those days. Quite frankly the more I read this forum, along with some of the responses I have seen, and the more I think about it, the more I do not like it and regret having done the pre-order. This whole thing has left a very sour taste in my mouth - speaking for myself of course.

 

I will be focusing my flight sim interest elsewhere, for the next several weeks at least. Thankfully we do have choices.

I feel your pain.. hopefully they will be able to get what they need soon and open it up before the Beta release.

[Feathered_IV]

Poor guys. It's a twenty minute walk through a very nice park for me to get to work. Sometimes though, it easily feels like twenty five.

[HeavyCavalrySgt]

How long?  I have to drive to catch a commuter bus in Frederick MD, then ride the Red Line DC Metro (subway) from Shady Grove into the city, transfer to the Green Line and ride to the end (Suitland) on the other side.  So from Northwest to Southeast.  They changed my duty station to Suitland about 2 years ago, coinciding with the realestate collapse.  Several other reasons why it is not convenient to move, including wife's job, etc.  So I suffer. 

 

Many travel further than I do, commuting into DC from Pennslyvania and West Virginia.

 

Yeah, but you are close to Udvar Hazy and the Smithsonian Air & Space... You may not get a WHOLE bunch of sympathy....

[=BKHZ=Furbs]

Poor guys. It's a twenty minute walk through a very nice park for me to get to work. Sometimes though, it easily feels like twenty five.

 

 

Poor chap, i have a 15 min cycle ride along the grand union canal to work, though sometimes it can be raining.

 

I can completely understand people's disappointment at the limited time frame, im lucky i will have plenty of time to test and play, but for others like Bandy its really hard pill to take, though im sure the devs know this and im very sure it wasn't a easy decision to make(and not just one persons call) but this is the right one if it means we get a better sim in the end at release.

 

I hope the testing goes very well and the time frame can be increased as quickly as possible(though we know how these things usually go), if it includes a weekend night at some point, im sure that would help a lot.

 

Im sure this will all be worth it in the end(easy for me to say, i know)

Edited October 30, 2013 by =BKHZ=Furbs

[Dakpilot]

How long?  I have to drive to catch a commuter bus in Frederick MD, then ride the Red Line DC Metro (subway) from Shady Grove into the city, transfer to the Green Line and ride to the end (Suitland) on the other side.  So from Northwest to Southeast.  They changed my duty station to Suitland about 2 years ago, coinciding with the realestate collapse.  Several other reasons why it is not convenient to move, including wife's job, etc.  So I suffer. 

 

Many travel further than I do, commuting into DC from Pennslyvania and West Virginia.

 

Well look on the bright, side you have a car, and a job to go to   

[Bumfluff]

No, you've paid for the game wich will be finished in Q2 2014. The early access is a bonus for what you've given the money and therefore it can't be bought.Stay calm and take it.

Are you a company rep?

[=AVG=Zombie]

LMAO, stay calm and take it! 

[FlatSpinMan]

Are you a company rep?

No, but he is a moderator, helpfully suggesting you make the best of the situation. You are of course, free to exercise your own judgement about what is best for you.

 

 

Back on off-topic, in my current job I have a 30 minute uphill bike ride every day, barring typhoons and really cold days when I take the train and walk. Hard work getting to work, but the ride home is a breeze and great way to let any stress fly off in the slipstream.

[Trident_109]

My commute is a real grind. I walk from the kitchen with a fresh cup-o-joe and flip the PC on in the spare room. Though there are a lot of drawbacks to being self employed, this isn't one of them.

[DD_bongodriver]

Show off!!

[I/JG27_Rollo]

in my current job I have a 30 minute uphill bike ride every day, barring typhoons and really cold days when I take the train and walk. Hard work getting to work, but the ride home is a breeze and great way to let any stress fly off in the slipstream.

Nice. Add another 15-20 minutes of uphill biking and you got my commute.

[Jaws2002]

I'm out of town from Monday or Tuesday morning to frday evening or Saturday morning. The earliest time I could squize some play time during this restricted early releas schedule should be Christmas week. But chances are the silver version will be released at that point, at half the price. The la5 and fw190 won't be ready for few months anyway, so the Premium lost it's value for me.

 

Such an uncommon schedule for a paid beta should have been made clear before the preorder went live and made perfectly clear.

clear.

[Trident_109]

Show off!!

hee heee. Yeah, just a little.

 

I do sympathize with those who have tighter schedules than mine and I do consider myself lucky in regards to the alpha release. I can't knock anyone who's upset by the decision of a limited access and can only hope the restrictions are very temporary.

[Jaws2002]

No, you've paid for the game wich will be finished in Q2 2014. The early access is a bonus for what you've given the money and therefore it can't be bought.Stay calm and take it.

It's funy. Few months ago, when people raised some concerns that may not be enough "meat on te bones on the Premium to justify twice the price of the regular, we've been told that we don't pay the premium price for content but for the chance to play it for months before everyone else. Now we are told the beta access is bonus..........

 

Look at this thread:

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/1497-pre-order-and-early-access-email-raises-lot-questions/

 

And compare the responses with the ones posted in the news thread in the last few days.

 

Feels like politicians. Opinions changed 180 degrees to match the party line.

[dburne]

Good point Jaws.

[Rjel]

It's funy. Few months ago, when people raised some concerns that may not be enough "meat on te bones on the Premium to justify twice the price of the regular, we've been told that we don't pay the premium price for content but for the chance to play it for months before everyone else. Now we are told the beta access is bonus..........

 

Look at this thread:

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/1497-pre-order-and-early-access-email-raises-lot-questions/

 

And compare the responses with the ones posted in the news thread in the last few days.

 

Feels like politicians. Opinions changed 180 degrees to match the party line.

I'm afraid all this has done is reinforce the idea that we, as a "community" of flight simmers, are hopelessly divided. It seems like it's been like this for years and isn't likely to change. We ALWAYS seem to find an issue, big or small, to drive a wedge between ourselves.