Game version 1.009 discussion

[6./ZG26_Custard]

I do not know Gumrak, but that sounds like a drinking problem to me.

 

На здоровье! 

[kendo]

Yes, for the sake of gameplay all airfields should be made more visible, than we have now. I agree also that not only runways but all places of personel activity will become darker then snow in two or three days after snowfall. 

Chimneys and fires will smoke snow with soot , machinery and people will leave dark spots on its presence and all the ground of the airfield should be seen as big and dark spot in the vast expanses of snow .

 

The game pictures look like no people leave and work and fight at the ground and all airfields look like abandoned ones, or look like rare used Antarctiс runways with one or two fligts in a month.  It not a true for a war!!!! 

 

"not only runways but all places of personel activity will become darker then snow in two or three days after snowfall."

 

When you fire up a mission how do you know how long ago the previous snowfall has been? Could have been 5 minutes. One hour.

 

How often does it snow in Russia in mid-winter? Quite often more regularly than once every three days I would have thought.

[oneeyeddog]

i don't recall any one saying the runways were too dark or they stood out too much pre Ver 1.009 so maybe we could have the ground textures remain as they are now, with the contrast we had before.

Edited March 5, 2015 by oneeyeddog

[6./ZG26_Custard]

i don't recall any one saying the runways were too dark or they stood out too much pre Ver 1.009 so maybe we could have the ground textures remain as they are now, with the contrast we had before.

That's a +1 from me

[Urra]

Was the mouse control option present since before 1.009 In the startup file? Just curious as to why its only half implemented.

[Jupp]

~S~ Developers,

 

The information offered for Update v1.009 concerning Dserver account editing is incorrect.

The file that needs to be edited is the _rconClient.cfg file residing in the bin/console subfolders of IL-2 Sturmovik Battle of Stalingrad

Not the ".SDS" file as was / is the case in Rise of Flight.

Thought I'd key up here, as the directive is still incorrect, in the OP, as of this posting of mine today.

 

Blue Skies!

 

~S~ -Jupp-

 

[Jupp]

...now about the other bits already covered in the Rise of Flight User Manual...

 

We are working on revisions for IL-2 Sturmovik Battle of Stalingrad / Moscow, 2 weeks to be sure!

[StG2_Manfred]

They changed the textures of the landscape to make them less glaring but to make all the disappearing airfields now make more visible is a lot of work I guess.

[[IB]Zulu]

"not only runways but all places of personel activity will become darker then snow in two or three days after snowfall."

 

When you fire up a mission how do you know how long ago the previous snowfall has been? Could have been 5 minutes. One hour.

 

How often does it snow in Russia in mid-winter? Quite often more regularly than once every three days I would have thought.

No matter how long ago it was. The problem is: bad runway visibility.   Dont ever think of the everyday snowfall in Russia.  I should say the everage ratio is 1 to 10 i.e. one snow day for 10 days of no snowfall conditions.

And again, airfields in a game looks surgery clean and like abandoned and rarely used ones.  

 

Every airfiled had kitchen, personel shelters and barracks, repair hangars or spots - all these places were heated with stoves and fire get from burning wood.   In those conditions a lot of soot make airfield vicinity darker and darker every day.  Try, also think about aircraft engines running also producing heat and soot every flying hour

Edited March 5, 2015 by [I.B.]Zulu

[6./ZG26_Custard]

They changed the textures of the landscape to make them less glaring but to make all the disappearing airfields now make more visible is a lot of work I guess.

 

No matter how long ago it was. The problem is: bad runway visibility.   Dont ever think of the everyday snowfall in Russia.  I should say the everage ratio is 1 to 10 i.e. one snow day for 10 days of no snowfall conditions.

And again, airfields in a game looks surgery clean and like abandoned and rarely used ones.  

 

Every airfiled had kitchen, personel shelters and barracks, repair hangars or spots - all these places were heated with stoves and fire get from burning wood.   In those conditions a lot of soot make airfield vicinity darker and darker every day.  Try, also think about aircraft engines running also producing heat and soot every flying hour

 

 

i don't recall any one saying the runways were too dark or they stood out too much pre Ver 1.009 so maybe we could have the ground textures remain as they are now, with the contrast we had before.

I just hope that as oneeyeddog said that they can contrast them as they were prior to 1.09.

[LLv44_Damixu]

I don't know what it might be worth, but I am giving my perception here as an private pilot of flying on snowy regions of Finland and to the landing strips ploughed to the icy lakes or to the fields. I easily can locate the landing strip from 5-12 kilometers away (depending on the weather) without any difficulties even only visual cues are the ploughed banks of a strip and the shadows the banks are casting. So, my humble opinion is that now the landing strips are very hard to locate compared to real life and I suspect that the commotion around combat airfield causes a lot of visual cues (vechile tracks etc.) to around of the airfield to even ease to pinpoint the strip from the above.

Edited March 5, 2015 by Damixu

[6./ZG26_Custard]

I don't know what's it is worth, but I am giving my perception here as an private pilot of flying on snowy regions of Finland and to the landing strips ploughed to the icy lakes or to the fields. I easily can locate the landing strip from 5-12 kilometers away (depending on the weather) without any difficulties even only visual cues are the ploughed banks of a strip and the shadows the banks are casting. So, my humble opinion is that now the landing strips are very hard to locate compared to real life and I suspect that the commotion around combat airfield causes a lot of visual cues (vechile tracks etc.) to around of the airfield to even ease to pinpoint the strip from the above.

Thank you it's very useful to get a real pilots view point. This it what it looks like less than a kilometre from the runway viewed from the cockpit after 1.09 the "invisible" runway is more or less at 12 o'clock on the ridge.

 

[LLv44_Damixu]

Here's an example of a snowy strip well hidden on dense forest.  This strip is easily seen on well over 10-15 kilometers away and this is the tougher one to spot due to be concealed around dense forest and elevating ground.

 

 

Edited March 5, 2015 by Damixu

[LLv44_Damixu]

Here's avarage visibility in a winter day. By this shot it would not be a problem to spot a airstrip around 15-20 kilometers away. (All the pictures was taken with my HTC Desire HD cellphone just left handed snapshots)

 

Edited March 5, 2015 by Damixu

[Rama]

So, my humble opinion is that now the landing strips are very hard to locate compared to real life

Some pilots of the Normandie-Niemen had probably a different opinions when they never found their base at the end of a training mission in a snowy day.... and had to land in the middle of nowhere with dry tanks.

[6./ZG26_Custard]

Some pilots of the Normandie-Niemen had probably a different opinions when they never found their base at the end of a training mission in a snowy day.... and had to land in the middle of nowhere with dry tanks.

Maybe this was after patch 1.09

Here's avarage visibility in a winter day. By this shot it would not be a problem to spot a airstrip around 15-20 kilometers away. (All the pictures was taken with my HTC Desire HD cellphone just left handed snapshots)

 

 

 

 

Here's an example of a snowy strip well hidden on dense forest. This strip is easily seen on well over 10-15 kilometers away and this is the tougher one to spot due to be concealed around dense forest and elevating ground.

 

Thanks for those great photos   

[LLv44_Damixu]

Here's a shot of close to minimum range of acceptable VFR (Visual Flight Rules) condition. Still I believe the strip should be well visible of close to reasonable far visual distance (say 10 kilometers or so) even on these weather conditions.

 

Edited March 5, 2015 by Damixu

[Rama]

Still I believe the strip should be well visible of close to reasonable far visual distance (say 10 kilometers or so).

 

If the strip is free from snow, probably, since the contrast will be high

For snow-covered strips, it's another story. (like sometimes it's not that easy to spot from far away, if you don't know well the landscape, a small grass-strip airport in our countries).

[LLv44_Damixu]

I have nothing more to add to this debate than my personal experiences on real life flights over winter terrain and similar experiences flying in IL2 BoS simulator's terrain. If my view of this is any of use - fine, if not, that's fine also. 

Edited March 6, 2015 by Damixu

[AbortedMan]

I don't see an airstrip in any of those photos! I see a place that you could land, but definitely not a contrasted airstrip that people are saying should be in BoS.

 

I think you guys got used to the ease of spotting in the previous versions and are now having a tough time and want it changed back for gameplay reasons. I personally want things leaning towards realism as much as possible, but that's just me.

 

Again, I ask if people are complaining just because they want it to be easier or because they have source material that provides evidence that runways in winter Russia 1942 were easier to see than they are in game?

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

I don't see an airstrip in any of those photos! I see a place that you could land, but definitely not a contrasted airstrip that people are saying should be in BoS.

 

I think you guys got used to the ease of spotting in the previous versions and are now having a tough time and want it changed back for gameplay reasons. I personally want things leaning towards realism as much as possible, but that's just me.

 

Again, I ask if people are complaining just because they want it to be easier or because they have source material that provides evidence that runways in winter Russia 1942 were easier to see than they are in game?

 

We're going to need hard, numerical data on runway visibility. Anecdotal references are not enough.

[Uriah]

even only visual cues are the ploughed banks of a strip and the shadows the banks are casting.

I don't think I have seen any plowed banks of snow and the shows they would cast in this game.

[6./ZG26_Custard]

I don't see an airstrip in any of those photos! I see a place that you could land, but definitely not a contrasted airstrip that people are saying should be in BoS.

 

I think you guys got used to the ease of spotting in the previous versions and are now having a tough time and want it changed back for gameplay reasons. I personally want things leaning towards realism as much as possible, but that's just me.

 

Again, I ask if people are complaining just because they want it to be easier or because they have source material that provides evidence that runways in winter Russia 1942 were easier to see than they are in game?

I would like it to be realistic too but not even being able to see an airfield/ runway from less than a kilometre away seems very unrealistic.  

 

 

This is in Russia, admittedly its a hard standing runway but this is on approach and taken with a zoom lens.

 

this is current 1.09 less than a kilometre away from the runway.

 

 

I have enlarged this shot so the runway can be seen within the oval. Trust me, when you are in the cockpit and on approach its almost impossible to spot until you are right on top of it.

 

We have now got a real pilot who flies in similar conditions telling us that its unrealistic not being able to spot the airfield/runway at a distance of 5 kilometres and more.

 

The runways before 1.09 did not glow in the dark but you could at least get a visual on approach.

[AbortedMan]

That runway is plowed, if it wasn't it'd look like it does in BoS. Those two are not pictures of the same thing. I think what you want is an airstrip that is (somewhat) cleared of snow. I think that's the more reasonable thing to be asking for.

[FlatSpinMan]

Been busy the last couple of weeks but I'm glad to see someone else finds the runways hard to spot. I took off the other day, circled around and couldn't find the thing. I'd just assumed it was due to my lack of practice recently.

[6./ZG26_Custard]

That runway is plowed, if it wasn't it'd look like it does in BoS. Those two are not pictures of the same thing. I think what you want is an airstrip that is (somewhat) cleared of snow. I think that's the more reasonable thing to be asking for.

Yes it's ploughed, but look at the parts of the runway where you still have ice on it (on the edges) its visible and this is a tiny airfield with a shed. Then check the game screen cap (which I have enlarged and marked)  you get no visual from the cockpit, I think this is unreasonable.

We are talking about a military airfield here and since 1.09 you can't see the blooming things unless you are right on top of them. Groomed, ploughed, prepared, I don't think it would be invisible from less than a kilometre away.  

 

I am not knocking this game I think its great, maybe the issue has arisen because of the texture changes as apposed to something done by  design, maybe this can be confirmed?   

Been busy the last couple of weeks but I'm glad to see someone else finds the runways hard to spot. I took off the other day, circled around and couldn't find the thing. I'd just assumed it was due to my lack of practice recently

I ran out of fuel trying to find somewhere to put her down the other day

[AbortedMan]

I'm not meaning to argue with you, so hopefully you're not reading this with a bad tone...but the runways in BoS are mostly not paved and only groomed snow next to fresh snow. I wouldn't expect it to be super visible, and especially not as visible as that picture since you can clearly see pavement, snow mounds and the ice.

[6./ZG26_Custard]

I'm not meaning to argue with you, so hopefully you're not reading this with a bad tone...but the runways in BoS are mostly not paved and only groomed snow next to fresh snow. I wouldn't expect it to be super visible, and especially not as visible as that picture since you can clearly see pavement, snow mounds and the ice.

No I respect your point of view, It's always good to have a debate, because hopefully by listening to the community things will get better for BoS and BoM when it's out.

 

(I'm just looking forward to the summer and autumn maps and then I can forget about snow!   )

 

Regards

[Livai]

Please help the AI to land in the right angle. The AI do Stuka landings!

 

 

 

 

 

[[IB]Zulu]

Here is a modified look of russian winter airstrip from http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/14768-game-version-1009-discussion/page-9?do=findComment&comment=240522

as it would be if no concrete visible under the ice

 

It should be clearly visible!

[6./ZG26_Custard]

Here is a modified look of russian winter airstrip from http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/14768-game-version-1009-discussion/page-9?do=findComment&comment=240522

as it would be if no concrete visible under the ice

airfield-winter_zpshqjsanhs_plowed.jpg

 

It should be clearly visible!

It's pretty much how the runways were prior to 1.09. + 1 from me Zulu

[-NW-ChiefRedCloud]

Custard I'm glad you took up the discussion. Thank ... I wasn't even talking about the runway itself but thought to myself, surely with vehicles and normal perimeter  traffic at any "busy" airfield, something would stick out more than normal. This was my argument, not that I, personally, have a beef with the last patch. Heck, any progress is better than none. But Whether it's normal or not, we'll all be landing in the fields if we can't locate the runways. Maybe smudge pots or perimeter fires furing the day. And it's come to my mind a possible argument to this being a beacon leading the enemy to your airfield. That would be bad. Maybe a happy medium here?

 

Incidentally, not all airfields in CloD are as easy to see as the one you indicated ...

 

 

Chief

Edited March 6, 2015 by -NW-ChiefRedCloud

[6./ZG26_Custard]

 

 

Custard I'm glad you took up the discussion. Thank ... I wasn't even talking about the runway itself but thought to myself, surely with vehicles and normal perimeter traffic at any "busy" airfield, something would stick out more than normal. This was my argument, not that I, personally, have a beef with the last patch. Heck, any progress is better than none. But Whether it's normal or not, we'll all be landing in the fields if we can't locate the runways. Maybe smudge pots or perimeter fires furing the day. And it's come to my mind a possible argument to this being a beacon leading the enemy to your airfield. That would be bad. Maybe a happy medium here? Incidentally, not all airfields in CloD are as easy to see as the one you indicated ...

 

 

You are absolutely right chief, and The only beef I have with the patch is the lack of visuals particularly on approach (it was just fine before)  you are also spot on about CLOD airfields. that entire area within the perimeter taxi way is the airfield. Spits and Hurris used to land in many cases on prepared fields without a discernible runway. I believe that  is Hawkinge , It's basically a big open space. you can put your bird down where you like

 

   

[wellenbrecher]

Incidentally, not all airfields in CloD are as easy to see as the one you indicated ...

 

 

 

Chief

In general I agree, but since CloD has a lot less empty space with no real identifying stuff it's less of an issue in many/most cases.

 

Even when trying to find open areas of grass, like a field like Hawkinge as shown in your post.

It's easily visible since it's behind/on a ridge (when seen from the coast) and Folkstone - which is a rather prominent feature at its position along the coast by its own already - points right at it.

Many fields in BoS are in the empty steppes or only next to some tiny hamlet, adding to the problem many folks are having.

 

I'm not necessarily one of them, but I can understand the sentiment here.

Edited March 6, 2015 by wellenbrecher

[6./ZG26_Custard]

 

 

Incidentally, not all airfields in CloD are as easy to see as the one you indicated ...

  I do have trouble locating runways sometimes in CLOD but since 1.09 I am struggling to find a runway even from a short distance away in BoS  I tend to just set up for approach and then just stumble upon the runway and by then its too late. back round the circuit for another try   

[-NW-ChiefRedCloud]

I agree with both of you on this but it appears that in the discussion of Developers Diary 90 that they plan on addressing the airfield recognition  problem in some way.

 

 

Chief

[6./ZG26_Custard]

I agree with both of you on this but it appears that in the discussion of Developers Diary 90 that they plan on addressing the airfield recognition  problem in some way.

 

 

Chief

Great new Chief, I can stop banging on about it now

[[IB]Zulu]

I agree with both of you on this but it appears that in the discussion of Developers Diary 90 that they plan on addressing the airfield recognition  problem in some way.

 

 

Chief

 

 

Great new Chief, I can stop banging on about it now

 Wow! What a quick reaction from Devs Nice.

We'll see

[6./ZG26_Custard]

 Wow! What a quick reaction from Devs Nice.

We'll see

Yes indeed!

[LLv44_Damixu]

I appreciate developers swift response to remedy visibility of airfields. I thank you and wish you stellar success on these flight simulation products and your never ceasing desire to simulate all equipment as close to real life performance as possible.