Developer Diary, Part 86 - Discussion

[Feathered_IV]

I find it so funny that some people here claim to not play the game at all but here they are commenting. Nothing wrong with that but i enjoy the irony.

 

I don't play the game, however I'm keenly interested in its development. That's why I check in here so frequently. When the Ju 52 comes out I'll see about playing again, but I don't want to burn out of enthusiasm before the game reaches a more complete level.

[Y-29.Silky]

What's embarrasing is the arrogance in not listening to your clients. They even posted a poll about it so what do you want, everyone to be like little sheep and troll the line. If your confident in your product you should be able to take criticism. What's worse is nothing being said and people leave or don't purchase the product. The issue is once you bought it that's it, it's not like you have to pay a monthly fee, if you did, I believe they'd listen more carefully in what people say. And I don't see anyone flaming people but threads get closed because people get butt hurt. Get over it or .... What did they say ?

I don't know what they said. Except for the fact that unlocks aren't going away. I hated unlocks too, but I didn't whine like a kid and throw the game down. And nothing is being said, you should look at these complaints.. People wishing the game to fail, wanting it to be 10$, this are pretty childish butthurt complaints which goes nowhere. DServer and FMB? How about they release them polished rather than half-ass? Likewise with the Ju-52. They just got off break, yet we expect them to pop everything out of their ass as if it were so easy to develop a monkey could do it.

 

The same people are complaining over and over, even when the Dserver, FMB, new aircraft are out, even if they took away unlocks, these same people will still find something to cry about.

[dburne]

The same people are complaining over and over, even when the Dserver, FMB, new aircraft are out, even if they took away unlocks, these same people will still find something to cry about.

 

Some people perhaps feel they have a right to complain, when they have spent 100 bucks on a product very early on, to support a developer and in the end feel like they have just been used and kicked to the curb...

 

Dserver - not here yet

Mission Editor that was coming in Dec - Not here ( with exception of a select few privileged)

New aircraft - Not here.

 

However the above even does not matter to me, with the current SP system I won't be participating.

 

Same people complaining over and over -- may just be the folks that plopped the bucks down to support EA and are concerned.  Guess almost  as bad as the same people praising over and over ...

Edited January 18, 2015 by dburne

[Bearcat]

And is not what is clearly stated here:

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/11976-we-proudly-present-you/?do=findComment&comment=185032

 

See as a "new" genre: Combat Flight Game.

 

 

 

That is not a new genre. Combat flight game. A game is a game. The bottom line is .. and this should really be noted.

 

When it comes to certain aspects of any game but especially a flight sim... It is the out of the box (metaphorically speaking) product that counts most.

 

Meaning..... Things like a restrictions on user made content initially can be addressed down the line and most folks get it... They understand that most products are going to be ongoing works in progress. No skins? Ok .. but it's coming right? Oh!! It's here now! YOWZA!! No ME or D server? But it's coming... it is coming... and hey.. they delivered on the skins right so why should I doubt in the least that those two things are coming? I don't. I have no doubt whatsoever and I would be shocked if 6 months from now we did not have  ME, a D server.. and something else that I have not even thought of .. (but the devs have!!   ) .. but I am talking about the basic core of any product like this. Now as I said I do believe that at it's core BoS is a great product... but why make accessing that core work? Look... the truth of the matter is.. game .. sim..? It should be both to anyone who buys it right out of the box.

That is a key componemt to the formula for success in this genre. Make it so the guy that has never ever flown a sim can enjoy this one.. and the guy who has been flying sims for 20 years can enjoy it also. Currently that is not the case when a person who loads up a QM wants to just drop some bombs in his 190. It should be.

 

 RedEye_Tumu, I believe I'll be able to share the most important parts of it with the community.

  Unlockable weapon and field mods are rewarding but not stopping one from playing. And since the lack of an oxygen system simply blocks flying on high altitudes, that must not be an unlock.

 

 

That sure depends on what content we will produce and sell. And since I don't know the answer to this question I can't speak about these extra features either.

 

Well I sure hope that the content you intend to sell includes new maps and new aircraft (it should one would think..) .... and I hope that whatever that new content is it will be fully accessible from the moment I buy it.

 

I'm telling you right now.. and you can take it however you want to ... but if new content is released with the same process of unlocking it that the initial sim has.. the survival of this sim will become far more problematic than it needs to be. You guys have an ideal opportunity here. Take it from me.. a staunch fan.. an ardent supporter.. You need to rethink this moving forward. I may not be happy (it matters less to me personally now because I have unlocked about 95% of the content but it makes moderating these boards a challenge.. and I hate to see the same issues over and over..)  but I understand if none of that can be changed now (although if that is the case.. just addressing that could really go a long way..)  in the current build... but moving forward based on what you now undeniably know about how the general community feels.. you can and should do things differently.

 

BoS is a GREAT SIM... and it is a sim.. just think about how you want to move forward. You guys are in an enviable position and it seems that sometimes you are like the guy standing 10 yards from the opposing endzone with the ball in his hand and no defender within 30 yards and you are looking at a pigeon on the field at the 5 yard line.. SCORE DAMMIT!! SCOOOORE!!!

 

That's an American football analogy so... you may need a translator ... but I am just in the NFL zone at the moment..

 

It was and I made a thread about it and Jason responded about it.

 

So did I.

 

Well regardless of what the team thinks a majority of your customers disagree about unlocks, to the point of abandoning the "game".

its an awesome game at core, the cost i can justify of the game and future addons, but the idiocy of unlocking what i just bought...that I cant justify being worth my time or money at that point. Its a shame

 

.........

Anything going to be done about the ridiculously boring "campaign?" 

 

I doubt it, but you know the unlocks wouldn't be such a problem if getting them wasn't worse than a root canal.  Seriously, I don't take three week "holidays" so maybe I dislike my job more than the devs, but I'd rather work 14 hour days than fly that "campaign."

 

Perhaps they think "there is nothing wrong with the campaign"

 

The stock campaign is moot. Just what would you have them do? Release another one?

 

Look... once the ME is released there will be decent community made campaigns.. At least that is my take. For me the sole purpose of that stock campaign is a vehicle to unlock content. It the unlocks were not present I would not have even bothered with it because I just don't like campaigns.. and this one has not made me a fan... but it did make me see some things about BoS that I otherwise would not have seen..

[Bearcat]

Uh-oh

Getting ready for hammer.....

Duck and cover! 

 

So are you trying to provoke a response..?

 

Maybe, I don't really care.

It's clear they don't care about my opinion or of those that share a similar opinion.

 

I'm already branded a "hater" so that's amusing to me to play with that moniker. Of course, it's nowhere near accurate but that changes nothing.

I'm still laughing about Zak's comment that "there's nothing wrong with the unlocks"

Either he's been brainwashed or he has no idea what this game needs to succeed. Either way it doesn't look good for the future.

It's a shame because it all could have been so different.

Still, nobody can deny that this forum is an entertaining place to follow.

I mean, where else can you see such discordance between those that see how things should be and those that defend what we have?

It's hilarious to me anyway.

....................

 

I don't know what they said. Except for the fact that unlocks aren't going away. I hated unlocks too, but I didn't whine like a kid and throw the game down. And nothing is being said, you should look at these complaints.. People wishing the game to fail, wanting it to be 10$, this are pretty childish butthurt complaints which goes nowhere. DServer and FMB? How about they release them polished rather than half-ass? Likewise with the Ju-52. They just got off break, yet we expect them to pop everything out of their ass as if it were so easy to develop a monkey could do it.

 

The same people are complaining over and over, even when the Dserver, FMB, new aircraft are out, even if they took away unlocks, these same people will still find something to cry about.

 

On the former.. that is my take as well.. on the latter.. I wonder.. you are probably right.

 

Some people perhaps feel they have a right to complain, when they have spent 100 bucks on a product very early on, to support a developer and in the end feel like they have just been used and kicked to the curb...

 

Dserver - not here yet

Mission Editor that was coming in Dec - Not here ( with exception of a select few privileged)

New aircraft - Not here.

However the above even does not matter to me, with the current SP system I won't be participating.

Same people complaining over and over -- may just be the folks that plopped the bucks down to support EA and are concerned.  Guess almost  as bad as the same people praising over and over ...

 

Some of this stuff needs a "wait for it" button.. seriously. We know the Dserver and ME are coming .. so why are people still griping about not havng it yet? It is a serious "Are we there yet?" moment.. NO! We are not there yet...

 

The unlocks are what they are... we all need to make a choice and move on and hopefully this will be a one shot deal at worse... because I don't think I will go through this with new content.

[1./KG4_Blackwolf]

 

 

moving forward based on what you now undeniably know about how the general community feels.. you can and should do things differently.

 

Lets hope so BC.

[1./KG4_Blackwolf]

 

I believe their best bet in doing somthing better for grinding XP would be adding system like SP coop campaign, and if i remember correctly devs would like to have that but dont know how to do it yet.

You and friends flying campaign together, no mather how boring or repetitive missions would be or how many XP you need it would be fun collecting XP and passing campaign together with friends. And squads could even use it to train rookies and they would in same time collect XP and unlock stuff

 

Best idea yet.. if players/squads had a way to run a coop with XP points. Squads or friends could fly together like we do in MP but each could gain XP points as we fly, linked to the main server it would record our points so you couldn't cheat it I guess.

[unreasonable]

Bearcat might not like campaigns but I do, in fact they make up 90% of my flying time.  I have tried my best to give BoS a fair shake through designing my own role-play rules within the context of the game's SP campaign, but I gave up in frustration long ago. 

 

This is not because of unlocks as such - but because of the whole superstructure of xp and pilot leveling that go with it, which have clearly used up a lot of development time that should have been used to improve the game in other ways.  Once you have reached level 9 or 10, nearly every mission becomes mission impossible, you alone against full flights of expert level enemy AI and lazer guided flak. No way to reset pilot level, the level carries over to a new campaign, even a new aircraft!

 

I do not have a problem with the concept of a combat flight game, but if you go that way it needs to be FUN!  BoS SP is not fun. The design of the "flight combat game" is really horribly bad, one of the worst game designs I have ever come across.  (And yes I agree that the underlying "sim" parts are exceptionally good).

 

So, back to RoF!

[KodiakJac]

I do not have a problem with the concept of a combat flight game, but if you go that way it needs to be FUN!  BoS SP is not fun. The design of the "flight combat game" is really horribly bad, one of the worst game designs I have ever come across.  (And yes I agree that the underlying "sim" parts are exceptionally good).

 

+1 and post of the day.  Cuts to the heart of the matter for many SP customers IMO.  The SP Campaign is the worst flight sim/game design I have ever played.

[1./KG4_Blackwolf]

I'm not a SP player but I feel your pain

[Brano]

I am not an expert on MMO games like WT and such,but if I get it right,there is kind of ingame points/credits system working.You collect these points by flying the missions and then you can unlock some fancy items etc.If you dont want to spend much time doing this,you can buy this ingame points/credits for real money.So far so good.

 

Actual situation in BoS

1. There is cheap/basic version where you have only 2 planes to start and grind thru the others.For now sold ONLY in Russia.

2. Most of early access players bought full version of game+premium planes.No possibility to exchange grind for unlocks with that additional money.

Result = frankenstein business model with no logic and reason behind

 

Should be

1. Cheap/basic version where you have only 2 planes to start and grind thru the others.For EVERYONE

2. Full version of game+premium planes where we exchange time to grind for unlocks with that additional money.

Result = basic version with unlocks,premium version without unlocks = business plan with logic and reason

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

Should be

1. Cheap/basic version where you have only 2 planes to start and grind thru the others.For EVERYONE

2. Full version of game+premium planes where we exchange time to grind for unlocks with that additional money.

Result = basic version with unlocks,premium version without unlocks = business plan with logic and reason

I really hoped this to happen. I have some squad mates that were on the fence to move over to BoS if the price was more moderate, but it frankly didn't happen. This would have brought way more "not so rich" players from the wetsern marked into the game.

 

A cooperative campaign woud be great, even more since ai wingmans are totally unreliable and if they don't crash on TO they end up shooting me in fight and stuff. A mate oculd be far more of a help. It does totally not compensate for camapign and mission structruring of course and I don't know how it's acchieveable, but it's a first step of improvement.

Edited January 18, 2015 by Stab/JG26_5tuka

[ST_ami7b5]

I am not an expert on MMO games like WT and such,but if I get it right,there is kind of ingame points/credits system working.You collect these points by flying the missions and then you can unlock some fancy items etc.If you dont want to spend much time doing this,you can buy this ingame points/credits for real money.So far so good.

 

Actual situation in BoS

1. There is cheap/basic version where you have only 2 planes to start and grind thru the others.For now sold ONLY in Russia.

2. Most of early access players bought full version of game+premium planes.No possibility to exchange grind for unlocks with that additional money.

Result = frankenstein business model with no logic and reason behind

 

Should be

1. Cheap/basic version where you have only 2 planes to start and grind thru the others.For EVERYONE

2. Full version of game+premium planes where we exchange time to grind for unlocks with that additional money.

Result = basic version with unlocks,premium version without unlocks = business plan with logic and reason

 

Exactly!

[Brano]

Cooperative campaign is a feature I miss the most.It was also one of my suggestions in other thread how to harvest XP points while flying with real people.Instead of you and 2-3 bots you could fly with your friends,enjoy game and finally maybe also this groundhogday wannabe campaign

[novicebutdeadly]

I am not an expert on MMO games like WT and such,but if I get it right,there is kind of ingame points/credits system working.You collect these points by flying the missions and then you can unlock some fancy items etc.If you dont want to spend much time doing this,you can buy this ingame points/credits for real money.So far so good.

 

Actual situation in BoS

1. There is cheap/basic version where you have only 2 planes to start and grind thru the others.For now sold ONLY in Russia.

2. Most of early access players bought full version of game+premium planes.No possibility to exchange grind for unlocks with that additional money.

Result = frankenstein business model with no logic and reason behind

 

Should be

1. Cheap/basic version where you have only 2 planes to start and grind thru the others.For EVERYONE

2. Full version of game+premium planes where we exchange time to grind for unlocks with that additional money.

Result = basic version with unlocks,premium version without unlocks = business plan with logic and reason

And that is one of the core problems with unlocks.

 

If I was new to this genre which seems more appealing, to play WT where I can spend as little or as much (time/money) as I want, and play on servers which are full of people with a ping less than 200,

 

or to play this game where I have to spend a premium (both money and time), and have few servers with a ping of less than 200, which are always empty (only the higher ping servers have people in them).

 

 

The other core issue/s is that unlocks are not able to be done in MP (unlike other games which have unlocks, which means BOS isn't like the other games currently out), and that the campaign is as heartless as a statue.

 

 

From prev threads on this, the devs have said that the unlocks would be good for growing the fan base.

 

From the point of view of giving people a reward to keep them interested I understand, however imho they really didn't think through on how to best execute this, and they def didn't consult the founders on ideas on how to best do this.

 

Why didn't the devs have a brainstorming session with the literally thousand of people who have played il2 1946 for years, who know what worked well for that game (that lasted over 10 years), and what they would like to see?

 

Had they done this I honestly feel that the customer base would be a minimum of 3 times as large.

 

I can understand the devs point of view in that they are the ones who took the leap of faith to make this new game, but what they need to remember is that they are making a game for people outside of their group to play. 

 

The current system is very successful is minimizing the growth rate of their fan base, and the lowering of the score of the game, however since I am pretty certain that that is the exact opposite of what the devs wanted, the current unlock system can only be considered a flop.

 

It should be removed in the current planes, and a more sensible unlock system introduced for any future planes/ campaigns.  

 

I recently read in a book, that Adolf Galland presented Goering evidence that clearly suggested that the allies would soon have escort fighters able to protect the bombers that would soon be able to bomb the industrial heart of Germany (and so they needed to increase fighter production considerably), yet Goering's response was that those planes flying at high altitude ran out of fuel, and glided that extra distance (complete nonsense), and so nothing was done, and as we know the rest is history.

 

That pretty much is how I feel in regards to the devs not listening in regards to the unlock issue.

 

 

~S~

Edited January 18, 2015 by novicebutdeadly

[GS-paorel]

 

 

No, because there's nothing wrong with the unlocks. Every game these days has it, so does IL2BOS.

 

I'm sorry but this is really funny justification

[dburne]

+1 and post of the day.  Cuts to the heart of the matter for many SP customers IMO.  The SP Campaign is the worst flight sim/game design I have ever played.

 

Amen brother, sums up my feelings as well.

[Dakpilot]

Amen brother, sums up my feelings as well.

 

I don't think you will get strung up by fellow "hardcore simmers" if you actually tried it. I am always a bit mystified by people who will not try the campaign at all on principle...it is not as if a little practice in each aircraft will do anyone any harm, I treat the campaign as training/aircraft familiarity and in the meantime have had some great mission with 20+ aircraft in varied weather and situations.

 

Original IL-2  dev made campaigns were more bland and boring and it was only player made content that made it a success

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[Nankeen]

Great update,

The icons do look good indeed. The oxygen system is something im intrigued with also, for e.g. : Is the pilot effected at high altitude in a plane without it?

Ai seems more challenging, (which is great), or it's proberly just me making poor choices in flight    ... The Ai tactics seem much better in numbers   

Love this game, it's awsome, wishing to see a big and bright future with many more titles

[Bearcat]

So do you now concede that the above statement is false bearcat?

 

Because loft clearly stated that the fmb would be released for everyone nearly a year ago. Backtracking and defensive posturing was not implied in your original post. Sorry if I couldn't see what wasn't there.

 

As for my comment on your posting style - it was meant as a friendly suggestion. If you took it otherwise then forgive me. I think that's a fair exchange for passive aggressive smiles, no?

 

As far as pms, that was sent 10+ min before you replied to this thread.... but you probably knew that, no? Or did you not see the notification? Maybe it needs a smile

 

 

No.. It was still not a hard date. None of this is. There have been subsequent posts contradicting that date. Since you have all the DDs maybe you can find them. I don't have the time to go looking through pages of DDs and their ensuing threads to counter your post .. or to "defend" my own, but I klnow that they exist.. It should not be necessary since as I have said..In the spring of 2014 all of the aircraft were not yet finished.. so how could you expect to have a FMB and why would you even post that question in the manner in which you did unless you were trying to stir the pot just to be provocative?

 

I don't think you will get strung up by fellow "hardcore simmers" if you actually tried it. I am always a bit mystified by people who will not try the campaign at all on principle...it is not as if a little practice in each aircraft will do anyone any harm, I treat the campaign as training/aircraft familiarity and in the meantime have had some great mission with 20+ aircraft in varied weather and situations.

 

Original IL-2  dev made campaigns were more bland and boring and it was only player made content that made it a success

 

Cheers Dakpilot

 

I agree.. I am trying to unlock the last bit of stuff for the Stuka and the He-11.. Not that I intend to fly them.. but I just want to have everything that there is to have.. but it is a boring campaign and just as in any sim.. it is user made content that will keep it alive. The more users can access and create and dig in the better off the product will be in the long run. Placing restrictions where they do not need to be only hampers growth..

[steppenwolf]

The oxygen system does sounds encouraging.

 

I know that you've said the DM is more or less final, but I see a lot of strange behavior in the way wings come off, odd debris spinning, as well as hit flashes rendering behind AC instead of at the point of impact. Are there any plans for more DM work? The natural appearing DM in RoF was a major selling point for me. Hopefully the road map will address this. Thanks. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nH_4jguOJI

[Bearcat]

This title was sold to us as an offline player's dream.

It was going to be single-player-centric with a campaign system to die for.

At least that's how it sounded when we were told about it.

I wonder how many people would have pre-ordered if we were told in straight terms, without the marketing spin, what would really be delivered at release.

Offline/solo players don't want "a little practice" we want a reason to load up the game and enjoy spending hours playing it.

We don't have that right now, and apparently for the offliner, salvation will come when the FMB, eventually arrives.

In the meantime, those of us that no longer play the game but do have hope for the future still frequent the forums and, occasionally, participate in the conversation too.

 

Can't argue with that but so much...

[LizLemon]

No.. It was still not a hard date. None of this is. There have been subsequent posts contradicting that date. Since you have all the DDs maybe you can find them. I don't have the time to go looking through pages of DDs and their ensuing threads to counter your post .. or to "defend" my own, but I klnow that they exist.. It should not be necessary since as I have said..In the spring of 2014 all of the aircraft were not yet finished.. so how could you expect to have a FMB and why would you even post that question in the manner in which you did unless you were trying to stir the pot just to be provocative?

 

How would the number of completed aircraft have any kind of bearing on the release of the fmb? Unless the 3d modelers also do work on the fmb (very unlikely). The state of aircraft completion didn't stop loft from saying spring would be the release date then...

 

My point was we were told to expect the fmb in spring 2014. Then that changed to not long after launch.

 

Most recently Jason stated that the fmb would be out in December with 90% confidence.

 

Yet there is still no fmb nor date on when we will receive this vital feature. Yet we know that the fmb has been given to a chosen few. So what is the hold up? If some are using it to make campaigns and missions then why can't everyone have it?

 

As far as my comments directed toward you; you first claimed that they never said spring 2014 for fmb. Then when I showed that this wasn't true you responded by saying that it essentially wasn't a serious post. Maybe you can help me parse the statements devs make so I know when they are being serious and when they are just blowing smoke.

 

Or better yet who wants to guess what we will get first; a macchi that costs money or the long promised fmb? Notice how the devs who have posted in this thread have had plenty to say about unlocks but nothing about fmb....

[Dakpilot]

Good grief do we still have to hear about  "the chosen few"  as soon as that is quoted you know there is a load of bias to follow...holding Dev's to comments that have been superseded by later Dev posts is rather pointless and totally counter productive, as if no plans have ever changed in any game production/development.

It is about as sensible as the arguments that the FM of 109 "will never change" because the Dev's said it was final, it is obvious that final meant final for release but no, people had to justify that the FM issues would never be changed because somewhere in a dev diary it had said 'final' It is clear now that there have been many updates to all FM's and that red herring was just that

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[ST_ami7b5]

This title was sold to us as an offline player's dream.

 

It was going to be single-player-centric with a campaign system to die for.

 

At least that's how it sounded when we were told about it.

I wonder how many people would have pre-ordered if we were told in straight terms, without the marketing spin, what would really be delivered at release.

 

Offline/solo players don't want "a little practice" we want a reason to load up the game and enjoy spending hours playing it.

 

We don't have that right now, and apparently for the offliner, salvation will come when the FMB, eventually arrives.

 

In the meantime, those of us that no longer play the game but do have hope for the future still frequent the forums and, occasionally, participate in the conversation too.

Yes, some of us remember:

"DD 21:

 

"When you enter a phase you'll be asked to join a regiment. The regiments available vary from phase to phase the way it happened back then during Battle of Stalingrad: some squadrons leave, some come to the front lines, join other units or get renamed. Which regiment you choose defines which side you server with - Soviet Air force or German Luftwaffe. You'll be free to change sides before every mission. Thus, all your stats gathered in the game get bound to your account while specific data is split in two separate profiles - USSR and Germany.

 

Every regiment has a home base and specific aircraft in service. You can use any plane that your regiment has available."

 

"

 

[Splat]

I am not an expert on MMO games like WT and such,but if I get it right,there is kind of ingame points/credits system working.You collect these points by flying the missions and then you can unlock some fancy items etc.If you dont want to spend much time doing this,you can buy this ingame points/credits for real money.So far so good.

 

Actual situation in BoS

1. There is cheap/basic version where you have only 2 planes to start and grind thru the others.For now sold ONLY in Russia.

2. Most of early access players bought full version of game+premium planes.No possibility to exchange grind for unlocks with that additional money.

Result = frankenstein business model with no logic and reason behind

 

Should be

1. Cheap/basic version where you have only 2 planes to start and grind thru the others.For EVERYONE

2. Full version of game+premium planes where we exchange time to grind for unlocks with that additional money.

Result = basic version with unlocks,premium version without unlocks = business plan with logic and reason

+1. I hardly ever post here, but I was about to break down and outline something along these lines. This, in my view, is what's really wrong with the unlocks: that one can, for example, spend $20 on the Fw 190 but still be required to unlock its various bombs and weapons doesn't make much sense. As I see it, unlocks as implemented in free-to-play games such as War Thunder exist as a means of inconveniencing the player; the inconvenience of the grind is by design meant to motivate the purchase of premium in-game items and currencies with real money in order to expedite progression. As Brano has pointed out, in the case of BoS there is no exchange between convenience and cost: those who pay $100 for all of the content up front and those who buy the inexpensive Russian "starter" version must still undertake the same grind. If the developers are going to rely on the flimsy defense that "every game these days has [unlocks]," they should at least make sure that the unlocks have been implemented in a similar way to every other game.

 

And now back to lurking.

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

We were also promise dmajor FM revisions during beta and yet it didn't happen (major meaning totally reworked). The campaign was told to be a compromise of budget and time so it was clear to them it owuldn't become a masterpiece of game deisgn from the day of the launch.

 

Nothing bad about releasing sth half finished out of pressure or lack of ressources, especially in beta stage (as it was back than), given it will be reworcked/improved some day. I hope 2015 will contain many fixes before moving on too far like FM and ai tweaks and hopefully sth to improve the campaign as well (or MP-unlocks).

[Yakmaster]

I am not an expert on MMO games like WT and such,but if I get it right,there is kind of ingame points/credits system working.You collect these points by flying the missions and then you can unlock some fancy items etc.If you dont want to spend much time doing this,you can buy this ingame points/credits for real money.So far so good.

 

Actual situation in BoS

1. There is cheap/basic version where you have only 2 planes to start and grind thru the others.For now sold ONLY in Russia.

2. Most of early access players bought full version of game+premium planes.No possibility to exchange grind for unlocks with that additional money.

Result = frankenstein business model with no logic and reason behind

 

Should be

1. Cheap/basic version where you have only 2 planes to start and grind thru the others.For EVERYONE

2. Full version of game+premium planes where we exchange time to grind for unlocks with that additional money.

Result = basic version with unlocks,premium version without unlocks = business plan with logic and reason

 

 

but isn't that War Thunder Sim then? only in WT you get more airplanes for free and more maps 

 

so you end up with WT "wonna be" that tryes to give you airplanes with proper FM/DM and what not, but thats what sim mod in WT tryes to make?

 

So who would buy the game then, for people to buy it system has to be made to look differant then WT way of unlocking even tho its wrong way lol

Edited January 18, 2015 by Yakmaster

[=RvE=Windmills]

 

 

Unlockable weapon and field mods are rewarding but not stopping one from playing. And since the lack of an oxygen system simply blocks flying on high altitudes, that must not be an unlock.

 

You mean how you are simply blocked from tankbusting in Stuka without grinding for 37mm cannons?

 

How you are simply blocked from tankbusting in the LaGG until you get the 37mm?

 

How you are simply blocked from doing fighter bomber missions without getting the unlocks?

 

 

 

I do not see a huge distinction between blocking high alt combat, and blocking all the things that are already unavailable for anybody who doesn't like SP.

[[TWB]Outlaw-]

Zak,

 

can you talk about the physics in the game a bit? I'm interested in how ya'll model airflow over the wing specifically and how damage or missing parts will affect that air flow. For example I lost an aileron but I was still able to roll both directions using just aileron input.

 

Also, will you add wake turbulence to the game at some point? I heard that BOS used to have it modeled but removed it- will it return?

[Sokol1]

 

 

You mean how you are simply blocked from tankbusting in Stuka without grinding for 37mm cannons?

 

 

Use bombs against tanks, no 37mm cannon in Stalingrad battle.   

[Potenz]

come on not again, why all the DD ends up in a unlock argue, it's already boring

and it's always the same 2 or 3 lads that starts the fire, give'em their own forum

section to have all the fun they want going around in circles about the unlocks

[71st_AH_Mastiff]

Zak,

 

can you talk about the physics in the game a bit? I'm interested in how ya'll model airflow over the wing specifically and how damage or missing parts will affect that air flow. For example I lost an aileron but I was still able to roll both directions using just aileron input.

 

Also, will you add wake turbulence to the game at some point? I heard that BOS used to have it modeled but removed it- will it return?

wake turb, is in SP. not enough data with out disrupting the MP lag, is why its not in. same with sound problems net code.

come on not again, why all the DD ends up in a unlock argue, it's already boring

and it's always the same 2 or 3 lads that starts the fire, give'em their own forum

section to have all the fun they want going around in circles about the unlocks

what we like to call circle talk in the military, clearly these guys love it.  Never getting to the end of a conversation, probably makes their day.

Edited January 18, 2015 by 71st_Mastiff

[CorsairHundo]

wake turb, is in SP. not enough data with out disrupting the MP lag, is why its not in. same with sound problems net code.

 

what we like to call circle talk in the military, clearly these guys love it. Never getting to the end of a conversation, probably makes their day.

The difference inside the military its not a democracy. People that dont understand the importance of discussing differences, communicating efficiently and understanding the customers concerns isn't in business for themselves. Most of these game/sim people have no business sense, their pc geeks, engineers etc. That's not a bad thing because good business people put in place people who are good in areas there not, surronding themselves with good people is the key to success. If you don't like the discussions about unlocks, don't comment or enter the thread Edited January 18, 2015 by CorsairHundo

[Desode]

I have kept very quiet over this whole thing,like some other lurkers,  But since it appears that this dev team refuses to listen or compromise on the unlock issue,,  I will finally say my peace and then move on.

 

There is no reason that there should be unlocks in a higher price point version of BOS. 

I Find this Completley and totally INSANE !

To think that 1C publishing and their side of the dev team is So out of their minds with stuborness that they can't make it so that there is a version of this game that has NO UNLOCKS in it,, is truly unbelieveable to me.

 

I would say at this freaking point in the BOS timeline,,,that it should be obvious to any person with any marketing intelligence at all , that there is at the very least money to be made by providing a version of BOS that has everything unlocked at purchase.

 

It is my opinion, as a person with a master's degree and a proffesion in marketing that this is just simpley ignorant business sense to not offer a version of the game that has everything unlocked at purchase.

Especially, when there is this many people upset over your choice to have unlocks in a flight simulator game.

There is clearly a demand for it.

 

On one hand, you say there is nothing wrong with unlocks and that every game has them now, well guess what,, the flight sim market is not most games.

To go even further, most games that have unlocks also have the ability to buy things that are locked so you don't have to unlock them.

That is a game business model that 1C still can not see and refuses to recognize.

 

Instead you would rather spit in the eye of SO MANY FOUNDERS that gave you their money to support you in order to create this game.

Not to mention all the future sales that you are loosing because of your uncompromising desicion.

 

This is mind blowingly arrogant,and insane to me.

 

You guys truly seem hell bent on ramming your unlock system down all these supporters throats because you feel that there is nothing wrong with unlocks.

What exactly is this stuborness stance gaining you ?

More Bad reviews , More Haters and MORE people that will never support anything 1C ever does in the future.

 

Plus, most of these people are the ones that gave you money when no one else would so that you could have the money needed to make the game.

 

Sadly,, you could have fixed this whole mess AND MADE MORE MONEY with each game sale but you would rather screw over all the people that hate the unlocks.

 

There is no logical explanation for this other then insanity and pure stuborness.

 

You could have made it so that all the founder had everything unlocked,, and this problem would have been mute.

 

You could sell a version of the game with everything unlocked from the start at purchase and generate more capitol per sale.

 

I mean really it can't be that much work to do and to then Let the consumer base decide.

Then you would have a true showing of RAW proof in sales and also make More Money for future development of BOS.

 

You could have even charged a extra $15-$20 for even premium customers to unlock everthing and even that would have been a fix. 

Sure, some founders would complain and call you greedy but there at least would be a solution available and you could be making more money  while pleasing So many of your former supporters.

 

The fact that there is no compromise in this whole mess, is truly unreal to me, and I wonder how many more people there are like me that have stayed silent for so long.

 

It is my opinion that 1C has made the Biggest blunder in making money and solving problems for a loyal fan base that I have seen them do as a company to date. 

There is no reason or purpose behind it other then to be stuborn and make people hate you as a company.

 

Well if your stuborn goal was creating consumers that are willing to spend over a $100 on your product HATE YOU AND YOUR WORK ? CONGRATULATIONS 1C !!

You Sure as Heck have accomplished that..

 

This is really a sad gaming day for me. 

 

I have kept quiet because I truly believed that eventually even 1C and it's 1C Developers on this project,, would have made some kind of compromise and shown logical business sense and fixed the problem, or atleast announce a fix by now. 

I told myself it had to be only a matter of time. 

I was 100% wrong       Zak " No, because there's nothing wrong with the unlocks. Every game these days has it, so does IL2BOS"            

SADLY, shows me that this is not the case.

 

To Jason and the 777 side of this project, I have this to say,

I hope that you have learned your lesson that this is what 1C does. 

They found a way to screw over Gaijin and it's fan base on Il2 BOB too.

Gaijin however stayed strong and got out and went on their own and is now doing very well. (Not comparing WT to BOS, just the joint buisness aspect)

 

Jason , if at some point in the future you make a game and 1C publishing has NOTHING I repeat NOTHING to do with it,, you will still have my full support and I have no problem spending as much money as you need for your work.

 

That is the thing here that 1C doesnt seem to get,, it is the true hardcore flight sim fan that iare willing to spend the Big purchase Money for what they want, and that is the base from which a lot of us are from that hate Unlocks. 

I would hope that Both Companies would remember that in the future.

 

At any rate, that is what I have to say on this whole matter.

 

Once more to Jason and 777,, I hope you eventually get out of this mess with 1C and start something new where Only Jasson and 777 studios has the FINAL say on the project !  

 

I truly hope that I see that day in the future.

 

Sincerely, a former supporter of BOS, Desode

Edited January 18, 2015 by Desode

[Jade_Monkey]

I have kept very quiet over this whole thing,like some other lurkers, But since it appears that this dev team refuses to listen or compromise on the unlock issue,, I will finally say my peace and then move on.

 

There is no reason that there should be unlocks in a higher price point version of BOS.

I Find this Completley and totally INSANE !

To think that 1C publishing and their side of the dev team is So out of their minds with stuborness that they can't make it so that there is a version of this game that has NO UNLOCKS in it,, is truly unbelieveable to me.

 

I would say at this freaking point in the BOS timeline,,,that it should be obvious to any person with any marketing intelligence at all , that there is at the very least money to be made by providing a version of BOS that has everything unlocked at purchase.

 

It is my opinion, as a person with a master's degree and a proffesion in marketing that this is just simpley ignorant business sense to not offer a version of the game that has everything unlocked at purchase.

Especially, when there is this many people upset over your choice to have unlocks in a flight simulator game.

There is clearly a demand for it.

 

On one hand, you say there is nothing wrong with unlocks and that every game has them now, well guess what,, the flight sim market is not most games.

To go even further, most games that have unlocks also have the ability to buy things that are locked so you don't have to unlock them.

That is a game business model that 1C still can not see and refuses to recognize.

 

Instead you would rather spit in the eye of SO MANY FOUNDERS that gave you their money to support you in order to create this game.

Not to mention all the future sales that you are loosing because of your uncompromising desicion.

 

This is mind blowingly arrogant,and insane to me.

 

You guys truly seem hell bent on ramming your unlock system down all these supporters throats because you feel that there is nothing wrong with unlocks.

What exactly is this stuborness stance gaining you ?

More Bad reviews , More Haters and MORE people that will never support anything 1C ever does in the future.

 

Plus, most of these people are the ones that gave you money when no one else would so that you could have the money needed to make the game.

 

Sadly,, you could have fixed this whole mess AND MADE MORE MONEY with each game sale but you would rather screw over all the people that hate the unlocks.

 

There is no logical explanation for this other then insanity and pure stuborness.

 

You could have made it so that all the founder had everything unlocked,, and this problem would have been mute.

 

You could sell a version of the game with everything unlocked from the start at purchase and generate more capitol per sale.

 

I mean really it can't be that much work to do and to then Let the consumer base decide.

Then you would have a true showing of RAW proof in sales and also make More Money for future development of BOS.

 

You could have even charged a extra $15-$20 for even premium customers to unlock everthing and even that would have been a fix.

Sure, some founders would complain and call you greedy but there at least would be a solution available and you could be making more money while pleasing So many of your former supporters.

 

The fact that there is no compromise in this whole mess, is truly unreal to me, and I wonder how many more people there are like me that have stayed silent for so long.

 

It is my opinion that 1C has made the Biggest blunder in making money and solving problems for a loyal fan base that I have seen them do as a company to date.

There is no reason or purpose behind it other then to be stuborn and make people hate you as a company.

 

Well if your stuborn goal was creating consumers that are willing to spend over a $100 on your product HATE YOU AND YOUR WORK ? CONGRATULATIONS 1C !!

You Sure as Heck have accomplished that..

 

This is really a sad gaming day for me.

 

I have kept quiet because I truly believed that eventually even 1C and it's 1C Developers on this project,, would have made some kind of compromise and shown logical business sense and fixed the problem, or atleast announce a fix by now.

I told myself it had to be only a matter of time.

I was 100% wrong Zak " No, because there's nothing wrong with the unlocks. Every game these days has it, so does IL2BOS"

SADLY, shows me that this is not the case.

 

To Jason and the 777 side of this project, I have this to say,

I hope that you have learned your lesson that this is what 1C does.

They found a way to screw over Gaijin and it's fan base on Il2 BOB too.

Gaijin however stayed strong and got out and went on their own and is now doing very well. (Not comparing WT to BOS, just the joint buisness aspect)

 

Jason , if at some point in the future you make a game and 1C publishing has NOTHING I repeat NOTHING to do with it,, you will still have my full support and I have no problem spending as much money as you need for your work.

 

That is the thing here that 1C doesnt seem to get,, it is the true hardcore flight sim fan that iare willing to spend the Big purchase Money for what they want, and that is the base from which a lot of us are from that hate Unlocks.

I would hope that Both Companies would remember that in the future.

 

At any rate, that is what I have to say on this whole matter.

 

Once more to Jason and 777,, I hope you eventually get out of this mess with 1C and start something new where Only Jasson and 777 studios has the FINAL say on the project !

 

I truly hope that I see that day in the future.

 

Sincerely, a former supporter of BOS, Desode

Well said.

 

I think any sane person would have considered changing their minds after all the feedback.

 

Zak's response is very immature and disappointing.

 

There is no shame in changing one's opinion or plans if its for the better.

Edited January 18, 2015 by CBZ323

[Feathered_IV]

Are there any plans to improve the gameplay in the campaign?

[II/JG17KaC_Wolfe]

Hi

 

Will we be able to use custom skins on all the servers?  The expert versions work fine amd allow custom skins but any normal server sites don't allow custom skins...can you help ?  Why is that ?

[LLv24_Zami]

Are there any plans to improve the gameplay in the campaign?

 

This I would like to very much know. Campaign at present condition is not very appealing or replayable, unlocks or not.

[307_Piotras]

Yeah, it is absolutely true.

Unlock system is a very bad idea for the sim and a lot of players said we don't want it! Players who have paid when BoS was available as alpha with very limited access.

But this is not only one bad news for us, specially for online players. We have no coop options, no mission builder, no possibility of hosting own game. Of  course they said it will be in the future, but question is when? For month, half year maybe 2 years. After 5 years when RoF was released even though we have everything what we are waiting in BoS on the pick you may see max 60-80 players online. If you think in BoS will be different I would say no, it will be exactly the same.

I have played in IL2 1946 for almost ten years, dogfight, duels, online wars, that was great fun. Now I have removed BoS from my computer,it is so boring. I don't want to wait next few years (like in RoF) fed new promises how this game will befantastic just I have to support this small team who will do a lot of things for me, just be patient. No way. RoF was good school for me with a long waitings.

Unfortunately I would say, Devs are not intrested to see full servers with happy players, they don't care about that. they are intrested in our wallets only. This is real reason why they don't listen to customers. Simply, you wont't buy the next copy ,will you:).

Other things are level  simulation, rubber BFs, 700km/h diving soviet hi tech planes ,indestructible flaps and landing gears. Yes, it will be fixed nobody knows when, maybe never, because somebody from devs will say, oh we have top secret data and everything is as should be.

Edited January 18, 2015 by 307_Piotras