-NW-ChiefRedCloud Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 Hey bearcat: if you want people to read your post then maybe you should try emulating someone besides Dostoyevsky. Walls of text like that hardly encourage people to read your posts. Especially when you essentially repeat yourself. Edit your wall of text down a bit if you want the average bos player to read it please. It almost seems like you spend more time typing then playing. Strange .... I read it all and agree with his point. And Bear, who can and has defended himself (though he has no need to), He spends more time helping monitor these forums and thus has less time to spend flying, this is true. Remember, when you can't say what you want in one word, use two (or more). Chief
fjacobsen Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 I think we should give the devs a break. They are hardly back after a well deserved vacation and almost instantly they are met by demands and demands. I concur thet the unlock system doesn´t belong to this sim, apart maybe for the campaign, but don´t use this endless to flame them. When I look back hoe IL-2 looked when it was first released, I must say that BOS has evolved to something much better. BOS is hardly ½ year old and counting the early acces period is not fair. In the old days no-one outside a developement team woul know what had happened until releaseday. I´m sure that BOS will evolve alot from here, but it does depend on a positive attitude by it´s customers. FinnJ
Sokol1 Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 (edited) you are right if you consider IL2BOS a game... And is not what is clearly stated here: http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/11976-we-proudly-present-you/?do=findComment&comment=185032 See as a "new" genre: Combat Flight Game. Edited January 17, 2015 by Sokol1 1
fjacobsen Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 Zak chose to respond to a question about the unlocks, and now the forum populace is discussing that comment. That's what a game's forum is for, right? In fairness though, critising something isn't the same as flaming. Nobody has called anyone any names. Nobody has threatened anyone with anything. People (customers) have, and will continue to express their dissatisfaction with an element of this game that has altered their perception of it. It's now a matter of fact that the unlocks are the reason some people have decided to uninstall BoS, and the reason some people have been put off from buying it at all. Whether people agree with their decision or think they're being petty or pig-headed isn't important. What's important is that the unlocks have proven to have been so divisive that it beggars belief that they are still part of the game. Given the reception of the unlocks, for a spokesman to come out and say "there is nothing wrong with unlocks" is ridiculous and frankly invites criticism. I'm not advocating flaming of course. I fully agrre about Your comments on the unlocks. But all this has been ongoing the last couple of months and I´m sure the developers are fully aware. I think they hust need some time to find the right path of retreat. At least I´m sure that sales numbers and customer feedback DOES have an impact on their plans. Keep on digging up allready dead bodies won´t help I think. So filling up the forum with same logic does nothing but fill up the forum. Now they had a vacation. Maybe that hes given them time to re-consider certain aspects of this sim/game. FinnJ
Zak Posted January 17, 2015 Author Posted January 17, 2015 Zak, you talk about roadmap. Excuse my ingnorance this road map its publicated on forum??? what are items and dates? , can you show us something more about roadmap. RedEye_Tumu, I believe I'll be able to share the most important parts of it with the community. I hope this feature will not account to aircrafts with oxygen supply (all german aircaft had oxygen supply by that time). That would be plenly wrong. Unlockable weapon and field mods are rewarding but not stopping one from playing. And since the lack of an oxygen system simply blocks flying on high altitudes, that must not be an unlock. My question to you is.. Moving forward with new content, will this same "feature" that most folks do not like and that has caused so much dissention among the ranks and bad press for BoS overall continue to be implemented as new content is released? That sure depends on what content we will produce and sell. And since I don't know the answer to this question I can't speak about these extra features either. If devs want unlock system - why we can`t unlock things in multiplayer too? So simply... Because (and I has been said a lot of times) we are not in charge of multiplayer. We do not own the servers that you are playing on. See as a "new" genre: Combat Flight Game. Exactly. Brilliant. Love you.
CorsairHundo Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 "If devs want unlock system - why we can`t unlock things in multiplayer too? So simply... Because (and I has been said a lot of times) we are not in charge of multiplayer. We do not own the servers that you are playing on." So the "owners" of those servers said NO to having the ability to unlock in mp??
6./ZG26_5tuka Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 (edited) Unlockable weapon and field mods are rewarding but not stopping one from playing. And since the lack of an oxygen system simply blocks flying on high altitudes, that must not be an unlock. Sry for the misunderstanding, forgot to mention my comment on the oxygen feauture wasn't related to the unlock comment/discussion in any way. What I meant to say is if this is going to be a global feauture, ie accounting to every plane ingame, a mechanic for oxygen supply systems has to be implemented as well. Otherwise the planes which had those are disadvanatged over their more primitive counterparts. I don't know for sure about the russian models, but all german aircraft ingame feautured on board oxygen supply systems in reality. I hope this is being taken into consideration when implementing this feauture. I also take you're not the man behind all these choices about unlocks and stuff so pls don't take any offense from my post. I welcome your efforts in keeping us up to date Edited January 17, 2015 by Stab/JG26_5tuka
LeLv8_Otto Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 (edited) My question to you is.. Moving forward with new content, will this same "feature" that most folks do not like and that has caused so much dissention among the ranks and bad press for BoS overall continue to be implemented as new content is released? I hope dev. team learned the lesson and there won't be more of this waste of time. I understand "unlocking" or "progression" in SP & MP campaigns, but how it is implemented now is more of an annoyance than something from what people can enjoy of. We will be back when there is some serious MP campaigns available - this game has potential for that Edited January 17, 2015 by LeLv8_Otto
Rjel Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 Because (and I has been said a lot of times) we are not in charge of multiplayer. We do not own the servers that you are playing on. Could you expand on this? I think it asks more questions than it answers.
sop Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 (edited) Hahahahahaha! Hahahahaha! Priceless. [Edited] [Edited] sop I edited your post because I know the context in which the original quote that you were responding to was made. You comment on it only exacerbates the situation so I have edited it. Please do not take it personally. Edited January 18, 2015 by Bearcat Inflammatory
Yakmaster Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 (edited) Sry for the misunderstanding, forgot to mention my comment on the oxygen feauture wasn't related to the unlock comment/discussion in any way. What I meant to say is if this is going to be a global feauture, ie accounting to every plane ingame, a mechanic for oxygen supply systems has to be implemented as well. Otherwise the planes which had those are disadvanatged over their more primitive counterparts. I don't know for sure about the russian models, but all german aircraft ingame feautured on board oxygen supply systems in reality. I hope this is being taken into consideration when implementing this feauture. I also take you're not the man behind all these choices about unlocks and stuff so pls don't take any offense from my post. I welcome your efforts in keeping us up to date let me help with your question, from your first post i see you missunderstod Zaks answer,and he didnt understod your question: Zak post that confused you: I'm not yet sure that we're going to draw a mask or restrict the view in any way. When you climb high enough your pilot will start to suffer some blackouts (which maybe can lead to death). What hes saying 5tuka is, if airplane has oxygen supply system then when his oxygen is deplited (oxygen supply expires) you will feel thouse effects. From Hans posts it seams to inplay that on Ju88 bombers in game you have oxygen for few hours of flight at high alt, and on fighters for more than a hour of use on high alts. So for example after your flying your 109 at high alt for lets say more then 1h (dont know where you would even in game fly for more then 1h at 9000m but lets say you would ) and your oxygen expires you will start to feal effects Zak posted, and will have to fly at lower alt from then. So if you have airplane that dosent have oxygen system youll start expiriance effects Zak posted probably sone after you cross some altitude. now to more important question, will game have pilot levels higher then 10? Edited January 17, 2015 by Yakmaster
dburne Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 (edited) now to more important question, will game have pilot levels higher then 10? Power ups only go to 10? What happens once that is reached, pretty much done with the game part? Edited January 17, 2015 by dburne
CorsairHundo Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 (edited) lol OK then. I'm not sure if you misunderstood or misquoted but thanks anyway. He must be confused [Edited] We will not be revisiting that incident in this thread. Period. Let it go. Edited January 18, 2015 by Bearcat Inflammatory content
dburne Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 He must be confused that is what was said, suck it up or leave Pretty sure it was said in bold letters as well, but then my memory ain't been so great lately...
CorsairHundo Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 Pretty sure it was said in bold letters as well, but then my memory ain't been so great lately... It was and I made a thread about it and Jason responded about it.
6./ZG26_5tuka Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 (edited) What hes saying 5tuka is, if airplane has oxygen supply system then when his oxygen is deplited (oxygen supply expires) you will feel thouse effects. From Hans posts it seams to inplay that on Ju88 bombers in game you have oxygen for few hours of flight at high alt, and on fighters for more than a hour of use on high alts. So for example after your flying your 109 at high alt for lets say more then 1h (dont know where you would even in game fly for more then 1h at 9000m but lets say you would ) and your oxygen expires you will start to feal effects Zak posted, and will have to fly at lower alt from then. So if you have airplane that dosent have oxygen system youll start expiriance effects Zak posted probably sone after you cross some altitude. I wonder where you gathered your information from since I didn't read anything alike in the sayed quote but well....maybe I have to focus harder on "reading between the lines". It's actually highly assumeable oxygen systems will be implemented properly though after the latest events I felt it was worth asking before the crying starts. Edited January 17, 2015 by Stab/JG26_5tuka
Guest deleted@1562 Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 Could you expand on this? I think it asks more questions than it answers. I think this has to do with the cheap version you can buy and unlock new planes by grinding. As the mp servers are not controlled by the devs, maybe people could cheat the system and have all unlocks in no time.
Yakmaster Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 I wonder where you gathered your information from since I didn't read anything alike in the sayed quote but well....maybe I have to focus harder on "reading between the lines". It's actually highly assumeable oxygen systems will be implemented properly though after the latest events I felt it was worth asking before the crying starts. this is how i understod his answer , and it helps to read russian forum also
dburne Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 I think this has to do with the cheap version you can buy and unlock new planes by grinding. As the mp servers are not controlled by the devs, maybe people could cheat the system and have all unlocks in no time. That would not make any sense, this in the English forum - the cheap version that has been mentioned before is for the Russian market, not available for the English market.
Zak Posted January 17, 2015 Author Posted January 17, 2015 I don't know for sure about the russian models, but all german aircraft ingame feautured on board oxygen supply systems in reality. I hope this is being taken into consideration when implementing this feauture. I also take you're not the man behind all these choices about unlocks and stuff so pls don't take any offense from my post. I welcome your efforts in keeping us up to date 5tuka, honestly I haven['t tried it yet because it wasn't implemented to the game. So I don't have specific info on that matter, only the big picture. Hope that next week I'll be able to tell you more about how the feature is going to work. Thanks, I am indeed not the BOS game designer. Still I sincerely believe that unlocks are okay. Could you expand on this? I think it asks more questions than it answers. Since everyone is going to have their own dedicated server, then everyone accordingly will be able to set up custom servers with unlimited ammo, for instance, and get those modifications in a blink of an eye, gaining an unfair advantage over those who just come to play the sim.
Mikey Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 Well regardless of what the team thinks a majority of your customers disagree about unlocks, to the point of abandoning the "game". its an awesome game at core, the cost i can justify of the game and future addons, but the idiocy of unlocking what i just bought...that I cant justify being worth my time or money at that point. Its a shame
dburne Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 Since everyone is going to have their own dedicated server, then everyone accordingly will be able to set up custom servers with unlimited ammo, for instance, and get those modifications in a blink of an eye, gaining an unfair advantage over those who just come to play the sim. Ok what am I missing here? Granted I currently am not playing BOS , but how does multiplayer play into the unlock system? I thought those were only attained through what is called the SP Campaign system?
CorsairHundo Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 5tuka, honestly I haven['t tried it yet because it wasn't implemented to the game. So I don't have specific info on that matter, only the big picture. Hope that next week I'll be able to tell you more about how the feature is going to work. Thanks, I am indeed not the BOS game designer. Still I sincerely believe that unlocks are okay. Since everyone is going to have their own dedicated server, then everyone accordingly will be able to set up custom servers with unlimited ammo, for instance, and get those modifications in a blink of an eye, gaining an unfair advantage over those who just come to play the sim. If your in that server everyone would have that choice, how is that unfair? Maybe I'm not understand the delivery of your message?
Rjel Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 5tuka, honestly I haven['t tried it yet because it wasn't implemented to the game. So I don't have specific info on that matter, only the big picture. Hope that next week I'll be able to tell you more about how the feature is going to work. Thanks, I am indeed not the BOS game designer. Still I sincerely believe that unlocks are okay. Since everyone is going to have their own dedicated server, then everyone accordingly will be able to set up custom servers with unlimited ammo, for instance, and get those modifications in a blink of an eye, gaining an unfair advantage over those who just come to play the sim. Something has got to be getting lost in translation here. I'm sorry but I simply don't understand what's being said here.
Airdrop01 Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 Anything going to be done about the ridiculously boring "campaign?" I doubt it, but you know the unlocks wouldn't be such a problem if getting them wasn't worse than a root canal. Seriously, I don't take three week "holidays" so maybe I dislike my job more than the devs, but I'd rather work 14 hour days than fly that "campaign."
Yakmaster Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 (edited) Something has got to be getting lost in translation here. I'm sorry but I simply don't understand what's being said here. So first Baron asked why Devs don't build system that allows unlocking things in MP. Zak answer, it would not be fair as players would cheat and unlock things faster in MP then player who plays in SP, as devs could not control map making and server settings in MP on your own servers. And devs already said few times that they don't have resources to have lets say 20-30 or more BOS dev team servers (original game servers for many players) on which they could control this unlocking in MP if it was posible, like its controled in SP campaign. Now lets say they even can control on what settings you can host to prevent farming XP in MP, they can not control how map maker makes map on his server for MP. Mapmaker can make XP farming mission, lets say place 100 arty in one place and air start and you would come there and take your airplane without unlocks and collect 2000+ XP points for it in no time to unlock everything for that airplane. While guy who unlocks stuff in SP has to spend hours to do same so its not fair to them, and they would complain then. So unlocks can not be set that they are unlocked in MP it hast to be SP only, as there it can be controled and colecting XP its fair to everyone. To implement unlocks in MP it would take to mutch resorces to maintain fair play that team dosent have I belive this is what hes saying P.S and one more thing. You can say so what if some one gets some equipment faster. How i see it unlocking equipment is not as big problem or gain to bather devs, bigger problem would be if you have game version with only lets say 2 airplanes at start that lets say you pay 10 times cheaper then full game with all 10 or 8 airplanes at start, and you can unlock and get XP in MP to unlock rest of locked airplanes in cheep game version. Then you would like to have server for farming XP so you unlock rest of airplanes fast and have all airplanes like guy who pay 10 times more for game then you. In SP you can not do that as Devs would control haw fast your gaining XP. You see why its neccesary to have control on how fast you can unlock stuff and collect XP Edited January 17, 2015 by Yakmaster
6./ZG26_5tuka Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 That could be solved by hosting comunity missions (DED Expert, Snydicate, ect) on the official server with unlocks enabled. The only disadvantages I see aside from overpopulation (due to current low player numbers) is probably going to be player behaviour, ie. vulching, "kill stealing" and teamplay disorientated behaviour. Still better than flying the campaign in my opinion.
Yakmaster Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 (edited) That could be solved by hosting comunity missions (DED Expert, Snydicate, ect) on the official server with unlocks enabled. The only disadvantages I see aside from overpopulation (due to current low player numbers) is probably going to be player behaviour, ie. vulching, "kill stealing" and teamplay disorientated behaviour. Still better than flying the campaign in my opinion. yes maybe that could work if hosts could be controled and do whats needed to have fair play, but team mates could farm XP also then 1 on blue 1 on red and get easy kills and points by shooting dow each other fast Edited January 17, 2015 by Yakmaster
Y-29.Silky Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 This community is becoming embarrassing to be a part of. It's like a spoiled child. Crying about unlocks, still? 3
LeLv8_Otto Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 Since everyone is going to have their own dedicated server, then everyone accordingly will be able to set up custom servers with unlimited ammo, for instance, and get those modifications in a blink of an eye, gaining an unfair advantage over those who just come to play the sim. At the momemt unlocks are gained in no competitive manner - just wasting time against bots. If they were gained in a campaign, SP or MP, then it would make sence to do it. Now it is done on a need basis - for DF server one doesn't need much. The idea is OK for Campaign (SP/MP) but not for to a start of a game career ...
CorsairHundo Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 This community is becoming embarrassing to be a part of. It's like a spoiled child. Crying about unlocks, still? What's embarrasing is the arrogance in not listening to your clients. They even posted a poll about it so what do you want, everyone to be like little sheep and troll the line. If your confident in your product you should be able to take criticism. What's worse is nothing being said and people leave or don't purchase the product. The issue is once you bought it that's it, it's not like you have to pay a monthly fee, if you did, I believe they'd listen more carefully in what people say. And I don't see anyone flaming people but threads get closed because people get butt hurt. Get over it or .... What did they say ? 1
6./ZG26_5tuka Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 1 on blue 1 on red and get easy kills and points by shooting dow each other fast Given those servers run hot with max population such "griefing" would be very difficult to acchieve. I made some points in how to setup a workign and teamplay based MP xp system some time ago but without any feedback. I'm too tired to repeat this all again, but it could function properly. Again, even if it was abused for griefing and stuff, how much worse it is compared to the campaign? MP at least doesn't feauture autopilot....
Yakmaster Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 I believe their best bet in doing somthing better for grinding XP would be adding system like SP coop campaign, and if i remember correctly devs would like to have that but dont know how to do it yet. You and friends flying campaign together, no mather how boring or repetitive missions would be or how many XP you need it would be fun collecting XP and passing campaign together with friends. And squads could even use it to train rookies and they would in same time collect XP and unlock stuff 1
CorsairHundo Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 I believe their best bet in doing somthing better for grinding XP would be adding system like SP coop campaign, and if i remember correctly devs would like to have that but dont know how to do it yet. You and friends flying campaign together, no mather how boring or repetitive missions would be or how many XP you need it would be fun collecting XP and passing campaign together with friends. And squads could even use it to train rookies and they would in same time collect XP and unlock stuff +1
skullbiscuit Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 What's embarrasing is the arrogance in not listening to your clients. They even posted a poll about it so what do you want, everyone to be like little sheep and troll the line. If your confident in your product you should be able to take criticism. What's worse is nothing being said and people leave or don't purchase the product. The issue is once you bought it that's it, it's not like you have to pay a monthly fee, if you did, I believe they'd listen more carefully in what people say. And I don't see anyone flaming people but threads get closed because people get butt hurt. Get over it or .... What did they say ? My name is Skullbiscuit...and I approve this message 2
skullbiscuit Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 This community is becoming embarrassing to be a part of. It's like the devs speak, and the usual suspects fawn over it. The people that care about the long-term longevity of the game express their discontent, and then the usual suspects pooh-pooh their opinion. And so then the cycle continues. I find it truly embarrassing. Uh-oh Getting ready for hammer..... Duck and cover! 1
Jade_Monkey Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 Jeez people, They just came back from a break saying that they have some new developments and a roadmap announced soon. All i hear is people crying about unlocks. Personally, not a huge fan of the unlocks but i dont think its so hard to get them all. Even easier for those who tend to fly a single plane model. 4
CorsairHundo Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 Jeez people, They just came back from a break saying that they have some new developments and a roadmap announced soon. All i hear is people crying about unlocks. Personally, not a huge fan of the unlocks but i dont think its so hard to get them all. Even easier for those who tend to fly a single plane model. There's an idea, let us buy one plane for $10 and game for $10, oh that's not an option (options are not popular here). People who don't mind the unlocks have more time on their hands, good for you but that's not the case for people who work have a family, other activities in life or just like options and aren't forced.
Jade_Monkey Posted January 18, 2015 Posted January 18, 2015 I find it so funny that some people here claim to not play the game at all but here they are commenting. Nothing wrong with that but i enjoy the irony. Maybe they have some hope under all yhe resentment. I have some hope too. I think once everyone is able to build missions the game will really flourish. After that, once new planes and maps come out (hopefully without snow), the game will get an extra push too. I know i would pay for a well made plabe or a well done new map and i think I'm not alone.
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