TheHighwayman Posted September 23, 2013 Posted September 23, 2013 Tell me about the AI, or link me to an existing discussion, if you please. How much different will it be? Is there anything that will make it unique and distinctive? Human pilots are the most interesting to fly against. They fly very well, but they also make mistakes and their skill level varies widely. Will any of this be modeled in the AI? Thanks!
6./ZG26_Emil Posted September 23, 2013 Posted September 23, 2013 In ROF the AI will spin which is nice to see. They have to use the same FM so you wont get the ridiculous situation from IL2 or CLOD where you get out performed by an inferior aircraft. The ROF AI has annoyances/limitations though and there are some mods to make them more aggressive which are pretty good. Over all I find the ROF AI much better than the other sims I've flow but nothing will beat flying against a human.
Fifi Posted September 23, 2013 Posted September 23, 2013 I think BOS AI should be improved from ROF ones. Devs are aware of ROF AI limitations/annoyances, and certainly they will try to make it better for BOS in my opinion. Yes nothing will beat human pilot, but we actually are at the préhistoric age of games AI Furthermore, i think the huge majority of flight simmers (and global gamers) are single players, not multi-players...so the goal is ahead!
Livai Posted September 23, 2013 Posted September 23, 2013 I hope that the AI would not fly like a UFO...... I remember IL2 1946 where I had problems to catch a AI-Plane (P-51D) with my Me-262 or Go-229......... and with CLOD the AI was not better still like a UFO but if I started to mod my plane to be like a UFO the AI has still the better UFO what a EPIC FAIL....... I like to play Singleplayer more than Multiplayer. I not played ROF yet but if the AI was with ROF good then it should be the same like in BOS, I hope no more UFO-Planes more......
6./ZG26_Emil Posted September 23, 2013 Posted September 23, 2013 Ha ha CLOD was even worse remember the F16 roles they could do I seem to play more single player these days so it would be nice to have a more advanced AI with more routines.
dburne Posted September 23, 2013 Posted September 23, 2013 Ha ha CLOD was even worse remember the F16 roles they could do Yeah no kidding , along with the deadly accuracy the gunner has whilst the plane is doing those rolls...
Tektolnes Posted September 23, 2013 Posted September 23, 2013 There's only ever been one standout AI and that's the AI in Battle of Britain WOV. IL-2, CloD, ROF, etc. all pale in comparison.
Bearcat Posted September 23, 2013 Posted September 23, 2013 In ROF the AI will spin which is nice to see. They have to use the same FM so you wont get the ridiculous situation from IL2 or CLOD where you get out performed by an inferior aircraft. The ROF AI has annoyances/limitations though and there are some mods to make them more aggressive which are pretty good. Over all I find the ROF AI much better than the other sims I've flow but nothing will beat flying against a human. I have to say 4.12.1 AI ios the best IL2 has ever had.. friendly and enemy..
6./ZG26_Emil Posted September 23, 2013 Posted September 23, 2013 It's been years I played IL2. I was almost tempted recently because HL still has quite a lot of people and Co-Ops are still run there. The only thing that really stopped me was the lack of 6DOF which is something I would really miss after ROF/CLOD. I really miss HL
TheHighwayman Posted September 23, 2013 Author Posted September 23, 2013 You guys rock. Thanks for sharing your insights. I wonder if the devs will get a chance to respond or have addressed this already? The whole system looks amazing already. Will this be the best yet? I'm hoping! I prefer multiplayer, but I will also give the single player career quite a bit of play too. I'd wait another full year for amazing AI.
ShamrockOneFive Posted September 23, 2013 Posted September 23, 2013 (edited) It's been years I played IL2. I was almost tempted recently because HL still has quite a lot of people and Co-Ops are still run there. The only thing that really stopped me was the lack of 6DOF which is something I would really miss after ROF/CLOD. I really miss HL Ummm the official 4.11 release from Team Daidalos features native 6DOF... and a ton of other new stuff. You really must get updated :D Edited September 23, 2013 by IceFire
6./ZG26_Emil Posted September 23, 2013 Posted September 23, 2013 Ummm the official 4.11 release from Team Daidalos features native 6DOF... and a ton of other new stuff. You really must get updated :D Oooh really??
ShamrockOneFive Posted September 23, 2013 Posted September 23, 2013 Oooh really?? Indeed! Also... we're now at 4.12 so even more stuff has shown up since the 6DOF addition. AI updates, more aircraft, etc.
FuriousMeow Posted September 23, 2013 Posted September 23, 2013 I wonder if the devs will get a chance to respond or have addressed this already? They have discussed it. http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/168-developer-diary/ Search for AI, make sure "Match Case" is selected.
TheHighwayman Posted September 23, 2013 Author Posted September 23, 2013 Hmm. I'm reading this on my phone so I don't have that search option. Thank you anyway. I'll sift through there and post the direct link here so others can merge there a d read. :-)
Fifi Posted September 23, 2013 Posted September 23, 2013 I prefer multiplayer, but I will also give the single player career quite a bit of play too. I'd wait another full year for amazing AI. It will take a lot more than a full year for you to see AMAZING AI... AI coding is tighten to computer evolution, and our computers, even the latest one, are still "basics", at the very early morning of computer evolution. It would require tons of coding to give AI a pale copy of a child brain! No, amazing AI isn't for tomorrow, all we can expect is a "not that bad" AI 1
FuriousMeow Posted September 23, 2013 Posted September 23, 2013 (edited) This is the biggest key point: 3) You have said that AI will follow the same FM as human pilots. What level of complexity will you be giving AI pilots? Will you make it like the full variety of human pilots, from novice to ace, or will it be very simplified? Yes, we'll try to create a different level. And it will be really different. The lowest level of AI will present a flying target, the average level will make some mistakes and it will not create a big problem when you fight one on one, but in the group it can be dangerous. And of course, aces are made for those who really believe that he wants to get a good sparring partner. I can not yet say exactly how many shades of the AI plan, but they will be different and they will be created for different purposes. And of course, sooner or later you will find all the weak spots, I'll not promise you a perfect AI, because I have never seen such. Essentially, you will never find an AI as good as a human - that's why in previous titles they've always had to cheat. Either by using a simplified FM, having more power, sniper aim, or increased hitting power of their weapons. And when they don't cheat, they are easy pickings for the more experienced - and yet still very difficult for the neophytes. Edited September 23, 2013 by FuriousMeow 1
TheHighwayman Posted September 23, 2013 Author Posted September 23, 2013 Thank you both for the previous two replies. I'll +1 you when I get to a desktop tomorrow. I'm always keen to see improved AI but everyone is correct. Computers are still pretty dumb compared to humans. It's going to be fun anyway!
Fifi Posted September 23, 2013 Posted September 23, 2013 It's going to be fun anyway! Sure!...I have fun with ROF AIs...so i guess it will be same in BOS!...but maybe it's because i'm dumb as computers!! 1
dkoor Posted September 23, 2013 Posted September 23, 2013 I hope that the AI would not fly like a UFO...... I remember IL2 1946 where I had problems to catch a AI-Plane (P-51D) with my Me-262 or Go-229......... and with CLOD the AI was not better still like a UFO but if I started to mod my plane to be like a UFO the AI has still the better UFO what a EPIC FAIL....... I like to play Singleplayer more than Multiplayer. I not played ROF yet but if the AI was with ROF good then it should be the same like in BOS, I hope no more UFO-Planes more...... Haha you tried to catch AI I usually try to run from it. I occassionally set up 1 vs 4 aces QMBs to polish gunnery and some other aspects. The other day I tried Me-262 1946 version HG vs 4 x LA-7 on ace setting. They did just fine in vertical meaning I had really tough time positioning myself always above them so I don't get picked by one while chasing another. Wondercrate Ki-84C doesn't seems to suffer from this at lower alts I was able to cope with every prop planes (tried the usual best), Kawasaki is just enough uber in vertical and in horizontal (+big guns) so practically every pass you have a chance to blow away someone (while maintaining your superior energy position, that was the whole idea in the beginning). FW-190 is practically the same minus horizontal maneuvering which renders it muuuuch worse in "Ai fights". It does on the other hand excellent job versus your John Doe human in the same situation. I just love when sometimes in the past people were like "well AI flies to max efficiency etc.", I knew practically from the get-go that they have upper hand in FMs and later on I actually proved that their DMs are uber too. For quick reference, try to 100% prop pitch Bf-109K4 in dive see how that one goes. AI does it at 700-800 or was it around 1000kph I can't recall. Also try to do 800-900kph in dive with Zero (~2000m alt). AI does that no prob. Don't really wanna see that in sim anymore even if it means AI flies retarded. Would still be better than cheating . Sure!...I have fun with ROF AIs...so i guess it will be same in BOS!...but maybe it's because i'm dumb as computers!! Funny thing me too! I usually wipe the floor with them but at times they blow me from skies left me with WTF expression on my face. Best Ai of them all if you ask me, right from the start I never had a feeling they had upper hand in anything FM/DM related (maybe they actually do as I haven't played RoF as much as I played IL-2).
FuriousMeow Posted September 24, 2013 Posted September 24, 2013 Best Ai of them all if you ask me, right from the start I never had a feeling they had upper hand in anything FM/DM related (maybe they actually do as I haven't played RoF as much as I played IL-2). They don't have any upper hand in FM/DM. It'll be the same in BoS as it is in RoF. 20) Will the revised logic of AI? Namely simplification physics calculations for AI aircraft or other tricks in order to increase their number in the missions and to reduce the load on the processor. AI pilots in BoS will fly on the same FM as the players, without any simplifications.
dkoor Posted September 24, 2013 Posted September 24, 2013 They don't have any upper hand in FM/DM. It'll be the same in BoS as it is in RoF. Good to know. Makes the offline game experience much better IMO.
SimFreak Posted September 24, 2013 Posted September 24, 2013 What I'm hoping is for AI to have self preservation. That means knowing when to "chicken out"; may it be from damage, weather, overwhelming enemy numbers or even disadvantaged position. I haven't see that done in any sim yet and that would increase "human" like ability of AI that everyone is seeking.
1CGS LukeFF Posted September 24, 2013 1CGS Posted September 24, 2013 What I'm hoping is for AI to have self preservation. That means knowing when to "chicken out"; may it be from damage, weather, overwhelming enemy numbers or even disadvantaged position. I haven't see that done in any sim yet and that would increase "human" like ability of AI that everyone is seeking. The AI will make a beeline for the nearest friendly airfield in career mode in ROF if they are too heavily damaged.
SimFreak Posted September 24, 2013 Posted September 24, 2013 The AI will make a beeline for the nearest friendly airfield in career mode in ROF if they are too heavily damaged. That's a good start. But usually AI RTBs after what normal pilot would have left long ago. Meaning they continue with way too much damage.
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