Developer Diary, Part 32

[JtD]

Yes, 1946 is the epitome of engine management.

 

http://simhq.net/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1219057/9.html

Awesome, a ten year old topic! BoS certainly must be better than Il-2 was in 2003, because 1946 is better than Il-2 was in 2003. And don't get me wrong, 1946 sucks at engine management, so BoS has to show a big improvement over 1946, or it will suck as well in that regard. And so far, very little was shown. In addition to the already mentioned seperate radiator / oil cooler control, the prop pitch demonstration on the ground matches handbook description (the 1600 reached at minimum pitch and maximum throttle), which it doesn't in 1946. Another small plus on the scoreboard. I just wish they had shown more or different things. Things that make it easier to check the detail to attention they've been paying, or not. I don't get anything out of seeing a video of someone flying a hammerhead turn.

 

And that's also a translation, very easily could have been mistranslated regarding wind direction.

It's pretty darn obvious that the wind comes in from the right.

 

JtD, I really don't know what you are expecting.

Like said above, I wish they had shown different things, more technical. Something to judge the FM by, not just some stuff that either has to be considered basic, or can't be quantified and is thereby meaningless.

 

Just to make sure I'm not misunderstood: I'm disappointed by the contents of the lifestream, not the FM of BoS. I just haven't seen enough about it. How other folks given the same information arrive at the conclusion that the FM is awesome, is a little beyond me, too.

Edited September 13, 2013 by JtD

[leitmotiv]

in good old il2 with 4.11 and 4.12 patches engine management improved much, and you can brake engines if you miss use them.

 

pravo means right on russian so translation is correct

 

and brakes do help to keep airplane strait in strong wind or even with strong engine forces you can see this in old il2 with Griffon spits  late Furys or late Doras and so on in il2 DBW HSFX or UP

 

Edit; didnt saw JtD post before, all what he/she says +1

Edited September 13, 2013 by Yaklover

[Missionbug]

I'm getting to quite look forward to the live streams, sadly not long enough for me though.

 

As someone already mentioned all that engine management is lost on me when the shooting starts, keep it simple.

 

All the best, Pete.

Edited September 13, 2013 by Missionbug

[FuriousMeow]

Awesome, a ten year old topic! BoS certainly must be better than Il-2 was in 2003, because 1946 is better than Il-2 was in 2003.

 

CEM didn't change between it's introduction and the last official patch for 1946 by the original team, it was still the same all the way up until the last version I stopped flying it - right around when it was getting hacked apart. Or "modded" if you wish. So 2003, same CEM that was in place when I last played it. I stopped playing about 4 years ago because some things were just always going to be broken (no lateral traction on landing gear, trees that may as well have not existed, bugged FM above 6KM), so I'm looking forward to BoS.

 

We know the FM is going to be awesome because of RoF. It's like comparing the FM of WOFF and RoF, RoF so much better. They both model flying, but the actual flight part is far more advanced in RoF. It's going to be the same with 1946 vs BoS, you can't see the difference until you actually control it.

Edited September 13, 2013 by FuriousMeow

[FuriousMeow]

pravo means right on russian so translation is correct

 

 

I was more referring to if it was actually "from the right" or "to the right."

[leitmotiv]

...How other folks given the same information arrive at the conclusion that the FM is awesome, is a little beyond me, too.

 

bye reading Petrovichs posts in Physics and aerodynamics section, for me at least that was the reson to think FMs will be good and still think so.

Like you say video was to short to show more first time

 

copy FuriousMeow i missunderstod

Edited September 13, 2013 by Yaklover

[Knight]

Just preordered it ! :D

[mazex]

This sim really looks better than I thought it would be!

 

First comment is that Russian is a beautiful language... It really is. My grandmother who hated Russia after fleeing from the Soviet assault on Estonia in 1944 leaving a privileged life always said (she spoke 20 languages or so) that whatever you say about Russia - it's the most beautiful language in the world after french I agree (and what the Soviet army did in 1944 is history so no hard feelings about that!).  

 

Second comment - at 22:39 into the video (just for the sake of it) as an IRL aerobatics pilot is that you don't apply aileron in the direction of the spin - either neutral or you "help it" spin faster by applying aileron in the opposite direction of the spin (as the aileron in the "down" position causes more drag than the aileron in the "up" position - thus "helping" the spin)... You don't apply rudder in the direction of the spin as in the video unless you want to reduce the spin rotation. Just for the sake of it For aircraft that really don't want to get out of spin with neutral stick fully forward and no throttle you can apply a bit of aileron in the direction of the spin to help stop the rotation depending on the type (or by cutting the magnetos to reduce engine power even more like you have to do in old Zlins). When spinning IRL it's very obvious in most types that applying aileron in the direction of the spin reduce the spinning "speed" (and vice versa).

Edited September 13, 2013 by mazex

[LukeFF]

I'm disappointed by the contents of the lifestream, not the FM of BoS. I just haven't seen enough about it. How other folks given the same information arrive at the conclusion that the FM is awesome, is a little beyond me, too.

 

Sheesh, we get it, you don't like these updates. Do you have to constantly remind us about it and act like nothing substantial is being shown? 

[Pizzicato]

Great video. Massively excited to get my hands on this!

[leitmotiv]

The thing that surprised me the most was fast roll rate of LaGG, I expect it to be more sluggish, this will come handy vs 109s

[HeavyCavalrySgt]

I am curious how many people got gold and silver badges -- essentially how many pre-orders did BOS get, and perhaps a question they can't answer publicly, are they happy with the result?

[mazex]

This sim really looks better than I thought it would be!

 

First comment is that Russian is a beautiful language... It really is. My grandmother who hated Russia after fleeing from the Soviet assault on Estonia in 1944 leaving a privileged life always said (she spoke 20 languages or so) that whatever you say about Russia - it's the most beautiful language in the world after french I agree (and what the Soviet army did in 1944 is history so no hard feelings about that!).  

 

Second comment - at 22:39 into the video (just for the sake of it) as an IRL aerobatics pilot is that you don't apply aileron in the direction of the spin - either neutral or you "help it" spin faster by applying aileron in the opposite direction of the spin (as the aileron in the "down" position causes more drag than the aileron in the "up" position - thus "helping" the spin)... You don't apply rudder aileron in the direction of the spin as in the video unless you want to reduce the spin rotation. Just for the sake of it For aircraft that really don't want to get out of spin with neutral stick fully forward and no throttle you can apply a bit of aileron in the direction of the spin to help stop the rotation depending on the type (or by cutting the magnetos to reduce engine power even more like you have to do in old Zlins). When spinning IRL it's very obvious in most types that applying aileron in the direction of the spin reduce the spinning "speed" (and vice versa).

 

And friday night as it is in Sweden (having a few glasses of wine) I already corrected spelling in the text too many times so "editing" is "locked" and realized that I wrote rudder instead of aileron in bold above where I meant aileron (naturally). And I'm talking about the correct spin ENTRY procedure if that is not clear

Edited September 13, 2013 by mazex

[Klaue]

Sheesh, we get it, you don't like these updates. Do you have to constantly remind us about it and act like nothing substantial is being shown? 

+1 it is getting old.

[HeavyCavalrySgt]

I don't think I need someone who cannot tell the difference between a constant speed prop and a variable pitch prop or doesn't know if the wind comes from left or right based on how a plane reacts to try and convince me how great the flight model is. (No offence meant.)

 

 

 

I have to wonder if you recognize that you are being insulting and hostile.  Is that intentional or a consequence of different languages and cultures?

I was interested to see the engine didn't appear to mind the order of adjusting RPM and power.  

 

(Typically in a modern airplane - and one where the pilot has to buy real parts with real money and worry about real forced landings with real personal risk - when you increase power, you set the mixture if required, set the RPMs with the prop control and then set the power with the throttle.  Decreasing power is done in the reverse order.  I have no idea where a supercharger gets added to the mix.)

 

Are there power settings that should be avoided on different airplanes?  Can we break stuff if we clumsily ignore correct engine management, or do we just impact performance?

 

There are lots of rules for different aircraft about specific manifold pressure / RPM combos that can cause vibrations, or detonation, or other dangerous conditions inside the cylinder heads, and some traditions from round engines that are probably a little obsolete about not having an "oversquare" power setting where MP is > RPM / 100 -- are we going to have to memorize a few different power settings for different aircraft like 26 / 46 for a climb, etc?

 

I wanted to apologize - I re-read my post and saw it might have been interpreted as aggressive and that is not my intent.  Just honest questions and a hope that engine procedures and appropriate power settings will be accessible for aircraft that need them.

[Capt_Hook]

Great update!

[JtD]

I have to wonder if you recognize that you are being insulting and hostile.  Is that intentional or a consequence of different languages and cultures?

I do realize that. Comes from two reasons. One, from dealing with folks like LukeFF, who have nothing to add to a topic but a personal attack, which btw. you approve, again. Not my fault. And, two, unfortunately, I cannot stand getting lectured by folks who don't have a clue. I'll point out that they don't have clue. My fault.

 

Now that that's clarified, I hope this topic can return to be a discussion about the update. Fwiw, I followed Yaklovers hint about the topic on the Russian board, where the programmers are involved in an ongoing discussion about flight physics and whatnotelse. Dozens of postings by them over there, in a single topic. On the international board, total dev's FM/DM post count: about nil. With the Russian board in mind, the livestream probably was OK, because the nitty-gritty details I'm so curious about are more efficiently dealt with in a forum post anyway. Unfortunately, these discussions are taking place on another board, and we are left with 20% of the information available. For some that's enough, for me it isn't.

Edited September 13, 2013 by JtD

[365magamma34]

THKs fof the Update!

[Pizzicato]

Guys.

 

Please try to keep the conversation respectful. To quote Jason from this thread: http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/222-knock-it-or-you-will-be-banned/

 

 

Talk about flight-simming and aviation, foster a feeling of friendship and brotherhood in your hobby.

 

There's too much passive-aggressive sniping going on around here and it's making it less than fun to wade through these threads which should be focused on all on great stuff that the devs are currently showing us.

[Rjel]

Cool, I was just trying to figure out if it was a communication issue or if you were being a punk.

LoL. Where's that cymbal crash icon when you need it?

[HeavyCavalrySgt]

Guys.

 

Please try to keep the conversation respectful. To quote Jason from this thread: http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/222-knock-it-or-you-will-be-banned/

 

 

I wonder if the forum has an ignore function.

[-=PHX=-Satch]

Great video!

[LukeFF]

I wonder if the forum has an ignore function.

 

It does. Click on your username at the top of the page, and you'll see an option to put people on your ignore list.

[HeavyCavalrySgt]

It does. Click on your username at the top of the page, and you'll see an option to put people on your ignore list.

 

Thank you!  All fixed.

[Pizzicato]

It does. Click on your username at the top of the page, and you'll see an option to put people on your ignore list.

 

The only issue I've found with it is that you can see still see the posts from people you've ignored if they're quoted by someone else. I know this because I tried blocking someone out earlier today.

[HeavyCavalrySgt]

The only issue I've found with it is that you can see still see the posts from people you've ignored if they're quoted by someone else. I know this because I tried blocking someone out earlier today.

 

That probably serves to reinforce your decision?  "I'm glad I blocked that person"?

[Pizzicato]

That probably serves to reinforce your decision?  "I'm glad I blocked that person"?

 

Well yes - there is that.

[HippyDruid]

There's more gold here than in Fort Knox! 

[Pizzicato]

There's more gold here than in Fort Knox! 

 

Let's hope 777 feel the same way.

[TheBlackPenguin]

Nice video, amazing how 30 minutes can actually turn out to be not a lot . Poor LaGG, no brakes and its taking a beating already before the enemy shows up.

Edited September 14, 2013 by TheBlackPenguin

[HeavyCavalrySgt]

There's more gold here than in Fort Knox! 

 

It is interesting that most of the people who pre-ordered seemed to go all the way.

[FuriousMeow]

That's because none of us want to wait! The La5 and 190 are icing, but I would get the shakes seeing other people play testing months before I can.

[Pizzicato]

That's because none of us want to wait! The La5 and 190 are icing, but I would get the shakes seeing other people play testing months before I can.

 

This!

[RAF74_Winger]

Thanks for the update gentlemen, very informative.

 

 

thanks for the update

 

however, as JtD, i am a bit sceptical about spin recovery sequence. not that i flew a LaGG-3 or have a manual for it, but the recovery delay caused by the wrong sequence of elevator and rudder movements seems a bit extreme to me. i guessed somewhere between 180° or 360°  delay. after all, pushing the stick helps to get more surface of the rudder out of the slipstream of the elevator and horizontal stabilizer, increasing the rudder surface in the airflow and thus increasing its effectiveness.

 

Can you tell me where you have the information about this spin recovery behavior from?

 

thanks in advance

 

Don't have any personal experience with the Lagg, but I do know of quite a few types where spin recovery won't happen at all if the corrective control movements are not applied in the correct order. The Slingsby Firefly is one of them, the recommended recovery is to apply full pro-spin control input and then initiate the correct recovery sequence.

 

Personally I was very impressed by the demonstration of an accelerated spin. For JtD, this is one of the major improvements over IL2 CoD: the characteristics of a spin can be altered once entered. Not possible in the previous title.

 

W.

[HeavyCavalrySgt]

Thank you!  All fixed.

Well that was weird.  I was telling LukeFF I had been past his house a little while ago and asked if he knew what was in the old Spruce Goose hangar, and if he ever made it out to Spitfire Grill, 94th Aero Squadron or Proud Bird all of which are (relatively) close.  I also share a picture of a plane pulling a banner that I passed on the way -- I had never seen that from the air before.

[HeavyCavalrySgt]

Don't have any personal experience with the Lagg, but I do know of quite a few types where spin recovery won't happen at all if the corrective control movements are not applied in the correct order. The Slingsby Firefly is one of them, the recommended recovery is to apply full pro-spin control input and then initiate the correct recovery sequence.

 

I was just reading about a student in WW2 that had been told that a spin in an AT-6 could get unrecoverable if you didn't stop it after 3 rotations, so they were trained to recover after two turns.  His instructor didn't like that.  He wanted to train students in 4 - 5 turn recoveries.

 

So they went out and did 3 turn spins and that was okay.  The instructor does a 4 turn spin, and the airplane gives a wonky lurch and doesn't recover gracefully, but it does recover.  The student does it, and it recovers fine.  The instructor tries a 5 turn spin and it goes flat and the plane isn't recovering.  The instructor calls for a bail out, but the student can't get out of the plane.  He's pinned in the cockpit, pushing against the seat with his feet and using his arms against the canopy rails, but stuck.  The instructor gets bored waiting for him and jumps.  The change in CG alters the spin and the student gets out and opens his chute at ~1000 feet AGL.

 

Then I saw this....

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihyHoIvPytQ

[71st_AH_Hooves]

I loved the stream, Im glad they are paying attention to the details, and pointing out that the CEM is different from say games like WT which have terrible if any CEM, as the main crowd that will propel this title (and other High realism titles) is the conversion of the casual crowd to a higher fidelity crowd. 

 

 My only critique is that I would like an English stream.  So I dont have to watch it twice.  Once to see and once to read.  But Im sure it will come in time.

 

 But Great work non the less!   Keep it up!

Edited September 14, 2013 by Hooves

[FuriousMeow]

Hopefully we're closer to the play testing release for premium than not, so I can do without the streams since those who haven't pre-ordered premium can get far more data feeds due to far more testing individuals assuming we're allowed to release it. Totally understand if we're not allowed to release them, since it's still play testing in the alpha and beta stage and the majority of releases truthfullly haven't (in the past) released with accurate data/information or consistent testing patterns.

 

I'm getting ants in my pants awaiting the early alpha testing release.

[migmadmarine]

One thing I am unclear on, does the LaGG not have breaks because the actual aircraft didn't have them, or just because they are not implemented in game yet? 

[FuriousMeow]

Brakes are not yet implemented based on the translated dialogue.