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sgt_fresh

No cockpit view?

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Can I fly without cockpit view as in previous iL2 games. I found it useful as I have very poor vision.

 

Ctrl - f1 would cycle cockpit views in past games, is this possible in battle of Stalingrad? If so what are the key commands?

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Sgt, there is no way to make the cockpit totally disappear if thats what you are looking for. The 'F' keys will cycle thru the available views. The F3 key is a view that will put you in an exterior 'chase' view, if that helps. 

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It's a real shame that you have poor vision, but I don't think there'll ever be a 3rd person view. WarThunder has though, you might wanna try that!

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It's not a feature in the game sgt_fresh, it's not the communities fault.

 

This game was built on the Rise of Flight engine, not the old 2001 IL-2 engine like Cliffs of Dover or 1946, Forgotten Battles etc. so it doesn't support it.

 

Do you have TrackIR or Freetrack software? It allows you to look around the cockpit using your head, and greatly improves visibility in general :)

Edited by Zoring

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So much of community.

 

Some of the responses weren't super welcoming. Sorry about that.

 

Welcome to the IL-2 community. Unfortunately, the new IL-2 does not have that feature available right now. They have talked about adding it in at some point but I'm not sure when that might be. The icon system in normal makes spotting fairly easy if you want a fallback. It even spots ground targets in a way that the original IL-2 did not.

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So much of community.

I didn´t do a thing to you.

That broad brush again...

Thanks man.

(expletives)

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Guest deleted@30725

Isn't the cockpit 85% the whole point of playing the game?

 

People will naturally be protective of this feature.

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Isn't the cockpit 85% the whole point of playing the game?

 

People will naturally be protective of this feature.

 

I thought so too.  :biggrin:  :biggrin:  :biggrin:

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This is an old thread, but still relevant to the limited appeal of modern flight sims. The cockpit view in a simulation is a very limited approximation of the experience of flight - both limited and limiting. Only dedicated sim-pilots can work around the extremely confined view, something that is particularly oppressive in the Rise of Flight model. It is yet another obstacle to the casual simmer. So why not offer the option of no cockpit? It would require some additional CPU and graphic card processing, but both are available in abundance. Purists stand back - allowing the less-dedicated to get rid of this constraint will not undermine the extraordinary approach to fidelity of modern sims, and should help increase the audience.

 The next thing that needs attention is standardisation of key mapping.

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12 minutes ago, anomejackblackaust said:

This is an old thread, but still relevant to the limited appeal of modern flight sims. The cockpit view in a simulation is a very limited approximation of the experience of flight - both limited and limiting. Only dedicated sim-pilots can work around the extremely confined view, something that is particularly oppressive in the Rise of Flight model. It is yet another obstacle to the casual simmer. So why not offer the option of no cockpit? 

 

The reason why is exactly because the normal cockpit view is so limiting. This makes it arguably the hardest barrier to overcome when moving on to the more realistic modes, nearly impossible in fact, unless you are forced to do it, because when learning to fly, navigate and fight with completely unrestricted view, you come to rely heavily on being able to see things from an angle that’s absolutely impossible with full cockpit.

 

I used to fly in Wonder Woman view back in the early days of IL-2 in the early 2000s, and making the jump to cockpit-on was by far the hardest transition I’ve ever had to make in flight simming.

 

IMHO it is much better to include visual aids like object markers that can be seen through the solid parts of the cockpit and a padlock system (both of which are currently available) as these can be extremely helpful to newcomers but still give them a clear idea, of what they are actually able to see.

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27 minutes ago, anomejackblackaust said:

This is an old thread, but still relevant to the limited appeal of modern flight sims. The cockpit view in a simulation is a very limited approximation of the experience of flight - both limited and limiting. Only dedicated sim-pilots can work around the extremely confined view, something that is particularly oppressive in the Rise of Flight model. It is yet another obstacle to the casual simmer. So why not offer the option of no cockpit? It would require some additional CPU and graphic card processing, but both are available in abundance. Purists stand back - allowing the less-dedicated to get rid of this constraint will not undermine the extraordinary approach to fidelity of modern sims, and should help increase the audience.

 The next thing that needs attention is standardisation of key mapping.

With vr this isn't a very limited view it's the exact view pilots would of had. Even with trackir and 6dof the view is nearly 1:1.

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When Il-2 was the only modern ww2 flight game back in 2006-ish the wonder woman view made sense as without a doubt it made the game more accessible. I think about half the playerbase in Hyperlobby played "air quake" with very relaxed settings. But right now I dont think people who look for arcadey quick action planes game even look at Il-2. When it comes to quickness of getting to action and number of players Il-2 cant compete. But those other games might spawn interest in history and simulation, and make those people look for products like Il-2.

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When I started playing the original IL2 back in 2001 I had no idea there even was a "no cockpit" view.  When I discovered it and tried it I wondered why anyone would want to "fly" that way.

 

It's a question that I still have not gotten an acceptable answer to.

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Well i think i saw a thread once how to set the tefault camera position to another point. And in VR it's even easyer. Walk back, reset the view, walk forward to the seat. Tada you are Ryting the prop Münchausen Style. 

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This game is a flight simulator and the very definition of flight simulator is a cockpit view. 

Plus I don’t see how that view helps new players. Your vision is the only feedback you get from the game and by removing the sight of your own aircraft you lose all orientation to it. How could you land the plane in no-cockpit view?

No-cockpit view belongs to arcade flying games, not sims. 

 

The people who buy games like this one today are all hardcore simulationists. The people who want mouse fly shoot em up will go buy War Thunder or something. They don’t want a game that focuses on realistic flight models and engine management. They just want jets vs biplanes air shooter. 

 

Edited by SharpeXB
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2 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

This game is a flight simulator and the very definition of flight simulator is a cockpit view. 

Plus I don’t see how that view helps new players. Your vision is the only feedback you get from the game and by removing the sight of your own aircraft you lose all orientation to it. How could you land the plane in no-cockpit view?

No-cockpit view belongs to arcade flying games, not sims. 

 

The people who buy games like this one today are all hardcore simulationists. The people who want mouse fly shoot em up will go buy War Thunder or something. They don’t want a game that focuses on realistic flight models and engine management. They just want jets vs biplanes air shooter. 

 

I honestly have no issue with people playing the game how they want, but I have to agree it's silly to expect such things from a sim like il2. War Thunder would be better suited to give these types of players what they want. It just isn't realistic to be able to fully cater to both hardcore simmers and the other side being arcade action. Although Il2 does do a pretty good job at it. I know when I first started I played clod on the easiest settings even used unlimited ammo and invincibility, use to play for hours just ripping up bombers. I had a bad flight stick and no headtracking hardware, I still had a lot of fun and appreciated the more realistic detail the game had to offer without actually knowing anything about the plane I was flying or flight in general.

 

Nowadays it's a totally different story and I am diehard full realism.

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9 hours ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

It's a question that I still have not gotten an acceptable answer to.

 

 

Well I had a idea at one point it would help me in deflection shooting, it did , but only by using it. not with cockpit . So I gave that up and never used it again. But it is good for "gun cam videos"

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There's the new guncam mod which sticks a new camera view on your nose.

 

Would that suffice?

Edited by OrLoK

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3 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

This game is a flight simulator and the very definition of flight simulator is a cockpit view. 

 

 

Although I do agree with what you are saying overall I do not agree with this statement. 

 

A simulator is a tool that can be used to train sombody about a certain thing. So not having a cockpit could be used to train certain things that could not be done it it was always on. For example it may give someone the ability to track targets better so they could learn how to predict the moment of enemies with the cockpit on.

 

Basically options just add to the versility of a simulation and a simulation is not defined by having realism turn to 11 but rather how it can be used to train sombody on the subject matter.

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6 hours ago, AeroAce said:

 

Basically options just add to the versility of a simulation and a simulation is not defined by having realism turn to 11 but rather how it can be used to train sombody on the subject matter.

 

I agree, but not all tools to make a sim more accessible are necesarilly “good”. And in my view, the no-cockpit tool is one to stay away from, because it teaches far too many bad habits and lets you rely on doing things you cannot do, once you move into more realistic territory. As such, I simply think it is a bad tool for training in a sim like this. I know, because I once had to make that jump in difficulty myself. 

 

Much better to use markers and padlock (which also teach you bad habits, but far less severe) 

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17 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

This game is a flight simulator and the very definition of flight simulator is a cockpit view. 

Plus I don’t see how that view helps new players. Your vision is the only feedback you get from the game and by removing the sight of your own aircraft you lose all orientation to it. How could you land the plane in no-cockpit view?

No-cockpit view belongs to arcade flying games, not sims. 

 

The people who buy games like this one today are all hardcore simulationists. The people who want mouse fly shoot em up will go buy War Thunder or something. They don’t want a game that focuses on realistic flight models and engine management. They just want jets vs biplanes air shooter. 

 

 

I agree, I sincerely hope that the Dev studio do not waste any time on features that have nothing to offer the sim experience. I don't care if older iterations of IL2 had it, IL2 has evolved and it's evolution needs to be moving forwards, not back.

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Interesting, I was a casual when younger (heroes of the pacific) and one of the reason why I switched to sim was the cockpit to feel like I'm there, this is real and immersive.

 

Casual who'd  come only if there is a no cockpit view won't stay on the sim because what they seek is casual and a sim is not the greatest media in term of casual experience.

 

BTW this is just my point of view but I think it makes sense, casual people would come for a change not for something they already have/know.

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Oh there is Wonder View in this sim. 

Just bail out, and you get a wonderfull view on first row. 

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13 minutes ago, 6./ZG26_Loke said:

Oh there is Wonder View in this sim. 

Just bail out, and you get a wonderfull view on first row. 

 

Just don't enjoy the view for too long, in case you find the enemy using you as target practice lol :)

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I can’t imagine no-cockpit view being an aid to new players because again the only feedback you get from a sim is visual. 

When I started RoF I could barely control the planes and any touch to the controls seemed to just send me into a spin. Not being able to see my own aircraft would have made the learning curve impossible. Now eventually I developed mad skills like snap rolling the Dr.I with my eyes completely off the plane and on a target but that took a lot of practice. I still find it difficult some times when for example zoomed in looking through a clear or open canopy having no reference during maneuvers. I’ll try to keep even a single canopy frame in view. 

Rise of Flight with a Wonder Woman view would be impossibly hard to do. Today’s flight sims have much more complex behavior. Too much to take away the only feedback you get 

 

As far as seeing targets through your canopy frames etc. which is a challenge without head tracking and probably the reason for having this view mode in the first place. The icons in this game are visible through your plane effectively making it transparent. So there’s no need for a WW view for that reason. 

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On 11/26/2016 at 2:44 PM, BFBunny said:

Isn't the cockpit 85% the whole point of playing the game?

 

People will naturally be protective of this feature.

 

Yes it is. 85% if not 95%........BUT.....there is also a small part of the community who love making cinematic movies and this is a real pain having no access to it. 

 

I get that people are concerned it may lead to some possibility of online cheating, I get that the purists think everyone should fly with it on.... and I have no issue with that. 

 

I have asked in the past for one simple solution to be enabled. 

 

Only have no cockpit view available in replays. SIMPLE! 

 

No idea why this can't be done, affects no-one and only helps those who want to have more options to create movies without going into the config to move cameras around. 

 

So.... can anyone see an issue with no cockpit view only available when viewing tracks in replay? 

 

 

A heartfelt post for the IL2 movie makers. 

 

Cheers MP 

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1 minute ago, Mysticpuma said:

 

Yes it is. 85% if not 95%........BUT.....there is also a small part of the community who love making cinematic movies and this is a real pain having no access to it. 

 

I get that people are concerned it may lead to some possibility of online cheating, I get that the purists think everyone should fly with it on.... and I have no issue with that. 

 

I have asked in the past for one simple solution to be enabled. 

 

Only have no cockpit view available in replays. SIMPLE! 

 

No idea why this can't be done, affects no-one and only helps those who want to have more options to create movies without going into the config to move cameras around. 

 

So.... can anyone see an issue with no cockpit view only available when viewing tracks in replay? 

 

 

A heartfelt post for the IL2 movie makers. 

 

Cheers MP 

 

I was under the impression you can do this already. there are some impressive fan made gun cam vids for il2 out there. Think it involves setting up a custom cam just in front of your plane or something.

 

I'm not against this as a view for movie making, I am very much against it if its an arcade mode for gameplay.

 

 

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19 minutes ago, =FEW=Herne said:

 

I was under the impression you can do this already. there are some impressive fan made gun cam vids for il2 out there. Think it involves setting up a custom cam just in front of your plane or something.

 

I'm not against this as a view for movie making, I am very much against it if its an arcade mode for gameplay.

 

 

 

Yes that's the custom camera I mentioned has to be fiddled around with, trial and error. 

 

 A simple option in the menu to  disable the cockpit only in replays would be such a simple but much appreciated option I don't understand why it isn't already there? 

Edited by Mysticpuma

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2 minutes ago, Mysticpuma said:

 

Yes that's the custom camera I mentioned has to be fiddled around with, trial and error. 

 

 A simple option in the menu to in replays to disable the cockpit would be such a simple option I don't understand why it isn't already there? 

 

With an oculus rift, there is a custom setting that disables the camera boundary. On berloga i do not bang my head on the canopy for example. My head will go straight through the cockpit glass. 

I wonder if it is possible for non rift users to adjust their head position view easily so that the plane is not in view ?

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would be nice to have the Alt+F1 disable cockpit.  I've been building a sim and don't want to see the cockpit instruments in the end.  Would Rather have it on a curved screen - similar to the current training simulators - where all you see in the screen is the area outside the plane.

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Come on fellas, lighten up. Having the ctr-f1 view won't hurt anyone or negatively impact those that don't want it. As has been already been said, the old il2 had plenty of servers where it was permissable and plenty where it wasn't. 

 

Those that don't understand people wanting it will never change their minds. I personally enjoy both. Those saying that, "the cockpit view is exactly what real pilots would see", don't really know what they're talking about though - there are a myriad of imperceptible reasons why I feel like I can see so much more, in fact more akin to ctr-f1, in a real cockpit than an SIM cockpit that feels kinda restrictive. 

 

That last line wasn't a dig at the great cockpits in IL2 btw - it was stating a fact that I don't really 'see' a real cockpit much, unless I'm actually specifically looking at it. 

 

Ps. I do realise that sitting in a realistic cockpit is part of the attraction - it's why I fly sims, to experience aircraft I don't get to fly for real - but calling for the restriction of purely optional features when guys like the OP clearly want it is closed minded at the very least. 

Edited by Darkmouse
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If they added this feature it would obviously be regulated server side. With the few players that are typically online it would probably be hard to find a server allowing it. Especially now that icons are hidden by your own plane. Turning off your cockpit would be considered a cheat by most. And playing invisible cockpit mode is too arcade style for this sim. I don’t think there would be too many other players into it. That type of player is over on War Thunder. 

I get the issue of wanting to switch it off for the hardcore cockpit builder. Unfortunately it conflicts with gameyness. 

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On 9/28/2018 at 3:56 PM, SharpeXB said:

The icons in this game are visible through your plane effectively making it transparent.

Not since the last update.

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13 minutes ago, Elem said:

Not since the last update.

Right. This is an old thread!

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15 hours ago, Darkmouse said:

Come on fellas, lighten up. Having the ctr-f1 view won't hurt anyone or negatively impact those that don't want it. As has been already been said, the old il2 had plenty of servers where it was permissable and plenty where it wasn't. 

 

Those that don't understand people wanting it will never change their minds. I personally enjoy both. Those saying that, "the cockpit view is exactly what real pilots would see", don't really know what they're talking about though - there are a myriad of imperceptible reasons why I feel like I can see so much more, in fact more akin to ctr-f1, in a real cockpit than an SIM cockpit that feels kinda restrictive. 

 

That last line wasn't a dig at the great cockpits in IL2 btw - it was stating a fact that I don't really 'see' a real cockpit much, unless I'm actually specifically looking at it. 

 

Ps. I do realise that sitting in a realistic cockpit is part of the attraction - it's why I fly sims, to experience aircraft I don't get to fly for real - but calling for the restriction of purely optional features when guys like the OP clearly want it is closed minded at the very least. 

What he said. One of the things I always liked about the no cockpit option is simulates historic gun camera footage which is really cool. Nothing more nothing less

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