Flight and damage models physics

[Flying_Anchor]

Random IL-2 (1942) canopy bug.

Скрытый текст

 

[Charon]

Brief description: IAR 80 rolls right.
Detailed description, conditions: The IAR 80s, but especially the IAR 80B, have a pronounced right-rolling tendency under a wide variety of power settings. The plane is equipped with ground-adjustable trim tabs: please have someone go bend them so that it can cruise hands-off.
Additional assets (videos, screenshots, logs):

[the_emperor]

Brief description:

Wrong time Limit for Bf 109 G-4/6 with DB605a for Start&Notleistung (1.42ata/2800rpm)
Detailed description, conditions:

currently the Bf 109 G-4/6 has as 1min time limited for Start&Notleistung (1.42ata/2800rpm). That is wrong, when cleared for Start&Notleistung the limit was  3min.

 

Starting with the He-177 which also did make use of the DB 605a but famously decreased its reliability by coupling them together to the DB610 engine, but even then it was rated for 3min for Start&Notelistung:

 

He-177 instrument panel with markings for Dauer- (2300/1.15), Steig&Kampf- (2600/1.3) and Start&Notleistung (2800/1.42)

Smithsonian National Air and Space Museum, NASM Original Photography, NASM Acc. 2012-0026.

Inventory Number A19602719000

https://airandspace.si.edu/collection-objects/instrument-panel-heinkel-he-177-righthand-console-engine-instruments/nasm_A19602719000

 

From He 177 A-3 Flugzeug Handbuch Teil 7 Triebwerksanlage (p. 13, August 1943):

 

Heinkel He 177 A-5 Flugzeughandbuch April 1944

 

From Vorlaufige Flugstrecke He 177 A-3/R2 (November 1943, p. 5):

 

 

He 177 Exerzierkarte

 

 

 

 

Now for the DB605a in the 109G here is the main scource, time frame and photographically evidences that 3min limit was applied:

 

From @VO101Kurfurst:

 

'Bisher gesperrte Start- und Notleistung DB 605 kann nach Durchführung des Einfliegens von 10 Stunden entsprechend TAGTTIC 6., Nr. *, lfd. Nr. 705/43, entnommen ist jedoch nur in äussersten Notfällen und keinesfalls länger als drei Minuten zu entnehmen. Voraussetzung ist Vorhandensein des Überdruckventilles auf Schmierstofftank / Aenderung Bf 109G, Nr. 297. Drahtzug für Start- und Notleistung am Ladedruckregler ist einzuhängen und nötigenfalls Ladedruckregler auf 1,42 ata einzuregulieren. [...] Auf Ladedruck- und Drehzahlmesser sind für Notleistung die entsprechende Markierungen anzubringen. Zum Einstellen möglichts Spezialisten heranziehen. F.S. Gen. TT, Abt. G, vom 28.5.1943. betr. Start- und Notleistung DB 605 in Bf 109G is ausser Kraft gesetzt und zu vernichten.'

 

TMGL Nr. 44 07 019 vom 14.3.1944., S. 49.,

BArch RL 3/1293.

Via M. Baumgartl.

 

Previously restricted takeoff and emergency power DB 605 can be utilized after completing a run-in of 10 hours according to TAGTTIC 6., No. *, consecutive [lfd. meaning laufend] No. 705/43. However, it should only be taken in extreme emergencies and under no circumstances for longer than three minutes. A prerequisite is the presence of the pressure relief valve on the lubricant tank / Modification Bf 109G, No. 297. The wire rope for takeoff and emergency power on the throttle lever is to be hooked in and if necessary the throttle lever is to be set to 1.42 ata. [...] Markings corresponding to emergency power are to be applied to the boost and RPM indicators. For adjustment, consult specialists if possible. F.S. Gen. TT, Dept. G, dated May 28, 1943, regarding takeoff and emergency power DB 605 in Bf 109G is hereby revoked and to be destroyed

 

 

Installation of the "Überdruckventil " Modification No. 297 to individual (and maybe factory new) aircraft was authorised 23th of March 1943, hence why the 3min marking already appears in the G-5/6 manual but there there is still the universal ban in place (see April 43 Bedienvorschrift Fl vor Bf 109 G2/4/6)  but by August 43 all manuals for the standard fighter variants have a clearing for Start&Notleistung. 

 

From BF 109 G-5 und G-6 Schusswaffenanlage Bedienvorschrift-Wa (March/April of 1943)

Showing the markings on the tachometer, this is probably one of the erliest showing of this markings, but its matching the 1943 picture from the Bundesarchiv both sporting an earlier version of the MAP gauge. 
this matches the time frame of the start of the installation of the Uberdruckventil for the use of WEP.

 

Squadron Signal Publications 5543 Walk Around Messerschmitt BF109G Number 43

 

 

 

 

Aero Detail 5 Messerschmitt BF109G p.64

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Manuals Start&Notleistung cleared for G-3, G-4 &G-5 by August 1943

 

 

From D. (Luft) T. 2109 G-5 Teil 8D Sonderwaffenanlage:

Heft 1: 21 cm BR (state of Mai 1944) Issue July 1944 p.10

d (dauernd - continuous) -> 2300 rpm

30                                  -> 2600rpm

3                                    -> 2800rpm 

 

 

 

 

 

https://airandspace.si.edu/collection-objects/tachometer-german-fl-20286/nasm_A19600646000

 

 

 

Though from an F-Version, it also shows the 3min markings

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Video of captured Bf 109 G-6 showing the markings on the tachometer (dauern 2300/ 30min 2600/ 3min 2800)

Bf 109G6 3.JG4 Yellow 4 Rene Darbois Stkz KT+LL WNr 160756 Italy 1944 06

 

 

 

Edited June 17, 2024 by the_emperor

[the_emperor]

Brief description:

correcting HE-Filling of 20mm projectiles
Detailed description, conditions:

 

since the later soviet 20mm got corrected from 2.8. to 5.6g of HE filling, lets bring up the filling of all 20mm HE-rounds in general.

the game seems to use TNT equivalent for calculation and should there fore be corrected to the historical correct number

 

 

 

The values are:

5.6g TNT for the later soviet

11.3g TNT for the allied Hispano System

20g TNT for the german Mineshell

 

since all rounds hold explosives that are more effective than pure TNT, the correct values of TNT equivalent should probably be:

 

British/US:

5.6g Tetryl R.E. factor 1.25 ~7g TNT 

 

(Later) Soviet:

5.6g A-IX-2 (73% RDX, 23% aluminum powder, phlegmatized with 4% wax; R.E. factor 1.54)~8,624g TNT

or 4.13g (~6.36g TNT)  for the tracer version

 earlier soviet HE-I rounds held about 2,8g of tetryl (~3.5g TNT) or 2.64g A-IX-2 (~4.07g TNT)

https://www.gichd.org/fileadmin/uploads/gichd/Publications/Explosive_weapon_effects_web.pdf

 

German:

18,6g HA41 (75% RDX, 20% aluminum powder, phlegmatized with 5% wax; R.E. factor ~1.5)~28g TNT

 

 

in short if staying true to the historical numbers the in game values must be corrected as followed:

 

20mm Hispano

11.3g reduced to 7g

(I guess the devs made a mistake here and took the whole loading of 0.025lbs as explosive content but  HE-I filling the Hispano 20mm had one part HE and one part Incendiary  as separate fillings)

everything Hispano can be found in my thread here:

 

 

 

20mm Shvak

5.6g increased to 8.6g

 

20mm mineshell

20g increased to 28g

Edited July 15, 2024 by the_emperor

[the_emperor]

Brief description:

Wrong time Limit for Bf 109 F-4  for Start&Notleistung (1.42ata/2700rpm)
Detailed description, conditions:

currently the Bf 109 F-4 has as 1min time limited for Start&Notleistung (1.42ata/2700rpm). 

This should probably corrected to be 3min, at least by the time the setting was cleared, as it seems that up to mid 1942 this engine regime was blocked.

and was released around mid 1942.

 

then cleared with a practical 3min allowance

 

also confirmed by allied intelligence reports

 

http://kurfurst.org/Performance_tests/109F4_Datenblatts/109F4_dblatt_calculated.html

Edited December 6, 2024 by the_emperor

[357th_KW]

Brief description: P-51B Automatic Supercharger down shift from High Blower to Low Blower isn't working properly.

Detailed description, conditions: This has been reported previously, but I figured I'd resubmit it with some tracks since it still hasn't been addressed.  The P-51B supercharger upshifts from low blower to high blower correctly.  When descending it should automatically shift back into low blower as it drops below the low blower critical altitude, but it doesn't and won't down shift in the automatic mode until you descend to 3,000ft or so (which is much too low - should be around 17,000ft for the -3 and 14,000ft for the -7).  This happens with both the -3 and -7 engines.  You can flip the supercharger into manual mode to force it into low blower, and if you then set it back to auto mode it will upshift at the correct altitude as you climb but again won't downshift until very low altitude.

 

Interestingly, it works correctly on both engines if you equip 150 octane fuel (the shift points change with the higher boost settings).  You can see the correct behavior in the P-51D where it works normally with and without 150 octane.

Additional assets (videos, screenshots, logs):  Tracks of the P-51B and P-51D climbing and diving through their blower shift altitude range attached below.

P-51-Blower-Tests.zip

[RNAS10_Mitchell]

Witnessed 3 occurrences (sorry no track files), of Dr1 taking damage,  and turning into a rocket ship, climbing to the moon.  One Dr1 pilot commented on it and confirmed (2 instances) exceptional climb capability with damage.   Also mentioned it was difficult to control. This was in back to back sorties this afternoon at the flugpark.   Dr1 pilots were experienced,  veteran pilots.

[LukeFF]

18 hours ago, RNAS10_Mitchell said:

Witnessed 3 occurrences (sorry no track files), of Dr1 taking damage,  and turning into a rocket ship, climbing to the moon.  One Dr1 pilot commented on it and confirmed (2 instances) exceptional climb capability with damage.   Also mentioned it was difficult to control. This was in back to back sorties this afternoon at the flugpark.   Dr1 pilots were experienced,  veteran pilots.

 

Yes, this should be fixed in the next update.

[Mato77]

Brief description: After November update planes, a47 and li2, impossible and brocken formation flight, starting on runway. planes in formation not gain altitude with leader, some slowly flying lower and crash in ground some fly full power ahead of leader but low. Easly replicable.

Detailed description, conditions: 

So, any setup, any map, no mods, original quick mission. Create mission leading c47 or li2, 2 or more planes, 6 for example. Starting on runway, All planes take off properly, than after message, successful take off, leader pointing to next point and gradually gain altitude correctly with plan. But rest of planes going mad, none of them gain altitude with leader, some go very fast forward nearly missing trees, some of planes go slowly towards the ground and crash, some hold position but near ground, they seam's to fallow direction to waypoint but not respect altitude, or speed  set by mission.

   I tested on other pc and the same  result

Single, deadhmatch coop. All same.

 

Is something wrong with holding formation for c47 and li2, no mater cargo or not, waypoint  is far and straight for planes to slowly get altitude, but they not. Starting on runway is very bad, starting in air better but noticeable other planes loose altitude slowly.

 

If i edit same mission, and simply swap to a20 or any other planes, all of them beehive property and hold formation and altitude nicely.

Quick mission or advanced mission creator, same problem. Campaign not tested.

   Its look like they try set in formation fly after take off, they got speed they try turn if in front to get in formation but they not gain altitude and every turn lower tem down until they crash. In same time leader continues flight high.

 

Tested in game advanced quick mission , paratroopers, li2 , and many more variation.

Additional assets (videos, screenshots, logs):  

[LukeFF]

53 minutes ago, Mato77 said:

Brief description: After November update planes, a47 and li2, impossible and brocken formation flight, starting on runway. planes in formation not gain altitude with leader, some slowly flying lower and crash in ground some fly full power ahead of leader but low. Easly replicable.

Detailed description, conditions: 

So, any setup, any map, no mods, original quick mission. Create mission leading c47 or li2, 2 or more planes, 6 for example. Starting on runway, All planes take off properly, than after message, successful take off, leader pointing to next point and gradually gain altitude correctly with plan. But rest of planes going mad, none of them gain altitude with leader, some go very fast forward nearly missing trees, some of planes go slowly towards the ground and crash, some hold position but near ground, they seam's to fallow direction to waypoint but not respect altitude, or speed  set by mission.

   I tested on other pc and the same  result

Single, deadhmatch coop. All same.

 

Is something wrong with holding formation for c47 and li2, no mater cargo or not, waypoint  is far and straight for planes to slowly get altitude, but they not. Starting on runway is very bad, starting in air better but noticeable other planes loose altitude slowly.

 

If i edit same mission, and simply swap to a20 or any other planes, all of them beehive property and hold formation and altitude nicely.

Quick mission or advanced mission creator, same problem. Campaign not tested.

   Its look like they try set in formation fly after take off, they got speed they try turn if in front to get in formation but they not gain altitude and every turn lower tem down until they crash. In same time leader continues flight high.

 

Tested in game advanced quick mission , paratroopers, li2 , and many more variation.

Additional assets (videos, screenshots, logs):  

 

I need a track file to show our QA team, thanks. 🙂

[Mato77]

Hi. I will send it tomorrow, thanks 

Where is that file locked? 

[Mato77]

planeaqm.2024-11-26_13-18-36_00.rar

_gen.rar

 

So there is, mission files and track files.

Its happen any map, any settings.. but only on li2 and c47.

 

Waiting for reply.

Thanks

[FuriousMeow]

P40E aileron trim is not functioning. Tested and confirmed on P47 that it works with that plane. I'm using switches to control the trim.