SYN_DerHesse70 Posted January 29, 2014 Posted January 29, 2014 Maybe this is the start of ED taking control of the project? This would be the best that could happen to DCS:WWII!
Tektolnes Posted January 29, 2014 Posted January 29, 2014 (edited) So does that mean that what we have seen in landscape development so far is, or is not going to be in the game?. If it's a 3rd party group having done the work so far then they aren't going to hand it over. Maybe this is the start of ED taking control of the project?....mere speculation of course, but I'm not the first to speculate about this project If, for example, ED / RRG were going to take up the reins after what the 3rd party has done so far there's no way the 3rd party could keep the work done up until now and not hand it over. 3rd party vendors are contracted to do specific work but that work is not their content and they would have no grounds to keep it for themselves (unless they weren't paid for it). It's all just speculation anyway - it could be that as ED / RRG are focusing on the integration of the landscape into DCS and don't want any further work done on the landscape until they've closed that out and the 3rd party guys are being put to one side for a bit which maybe has disappointed them. Or maybe ED / RRG are going to work more on the landscape themselves as they weren't totally happy with what the 3rd party guys were outputting or maybe the heavy lifting has been done and they're going to fine tune the remainder themselves. Who knows. As for ED starting to take control of the project I think people maybe are underestimating just how close ED / RRG really are. It seems to me that ED know that bringing DCS level modern aircraft to release takes an extremely long time due to all the systems programming required, etc. There's far less complexity to WW2 level planes once you get past the initial modelling which they did with the Mustang. However ED don't want their modern aircraft fans to get themselves all in a tizzy by seeming to concentrate on WW2 aircraft so they have the RRG partnership going on. From Ilya's videos it looks like the RRG guys are working out to the same office as ED guys. Yo-Yo is working on the Spit IX modelling and ED have final oversight of the product being released. Sounds like they're working together constantly on this project already which is a good thing. Edited January 29, 2014 by Tektolnes
SYN_Jedders Posted January 29, 2014 Posted January 29, 2014 Good points, Teck. I would really love to get a handle on just who is writing the cheques over there. Is it RRG paying ED for the licence and taking any profits?, or is it ED paying RRG to make an addon?....Im not sure we have the full picture tbh. No real biggie I guess, but it would be reassuring to know who was really in control.
DD_bongodriver Posted January 29, 2014 Posted January 29, 2014 but it would be reassuring to know who was really in control. 1C or 777? RRG or ED?
Tektolnes Posted January 29, 2014 Posted January 29, 2014 Good points, Teck. I would really love to get a handle on just who is writing the cheques over there. Is it RRG paying ED for the licence and taking any profits?, or is it ED paying RRG to make an addon?....Im not sure we have the full picture tbh. No real biggie I guess, but it would be reassuring to know who was really in control. It's a little muddy but overtly it looks like a partnership with ED having final oversight as the product bears the DCS tag and has to be up to their high standards to avoid any reputational damage. Whatever the exact arrangements they have going behind the partnership isn't really of concern to us. ED / RRG willingly entered this arrangement so presumably it works ok for all parties and the progress to date hasn't thrown up any red flags to me.
SYN_Jedders Posted January 29, 2014 Posted January 29, 2014 1C or 777? 1CGS actually. Very clearly a new entity.
DD_bongodriver Posted January 29, 2014 Posted January 29, 2014 1CGS actually. Very clearly a new entity. Clearly.....but who is in control?
SYN_Jedders Posted January 29, 2014 Posted January 29, 2014 Clearly.....but who is in control? Who is in control of a single entity?....
DD_bongodriver Posted January 29, 2014 Posted January 29, 2014 Who is in control of a single entity?.... so it has nothing to do with 1C or 777?
SYN_Jedders Posted January 29, 2014 Posted January 29, 2014 Of course it does. Jasons own words from RoF make it clear. "777 Studios partners with 1C to form 1C Game Studios (1CGS) and develop IL-2 Sturmovik: Battle of Stalingrad" The point being that a new single entity was formed. That entity is registered as a Limited Company. 1CGS is responsible for its own product and thus we know who to blame if it all goes tits up.
Tektolnes Posted January 29, 2014 Posted January 29, 2014 (edited) All seems pointless - if it all goes tits up ED & RRG get the blame as they're in a partnership together on this. Who's got more power and control behind the partnership is pretty irrelevant - both parties know the full details are entered into the partnership willingly so if they're fine with it then it's of no concern to us. Edit: I'm sure there'll be a proper user agreement once it gets to the point that people can actually play the game be it alpha or whatever. Edited January 29, 2014 by Tektolnes
Rama Posted January 29, 2014 Posted January 29, 2014 To all, please stop the off topic. This thread topic is DCS:WW2, not "who are 1CGS shareholders".
SYN_Jedders Posted January 29, 2014 Posted January 29, 2014 Yes, sorry...we did drift a bit Back on topic....
Bearcat Posted January 29, 2014 Posted January 29, 2014 I read somewhere on these forums that DCS (or DCS WWII) had "no potential whatsoever" regarding Multiplayer and dogfighting. Hmm, maybe not. Here's what can be done with the current DCSW engine. Here is some 12 vs 12 action. That is a nice video showing what DCS can do.. not sure how it offers up anything about MP.
SYN_DerHesse70 Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 (edited) @Chuck_Owl: Where did you record this MP fight? Server name? Please don't make people beliefe that they can do 12 vs 12 fights in DCS P-51D MP!! Everybody of the active mustang pilots in the DCS forum can tell you that you will stuck with 15fps in a slideshow if only one aircraft is shooting!!! It is not possible with the current beta and the DCS engine. SP is complete different. Edited January 30, 2014 by SYN_DerHesse70
Tektolnes Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 Edit the tracer_bullet_red.lods file found in .../Bazar/World/Shapes folder Try changing it to: Code:lods = {{"tracer_bullet_red.edm",600};{"tracer_bullet_red-LOD.edm",2000};{"tracer_bullet_red-LOD2.edm",10000};}; It should improve your FPS when firing guns in the P51 both online and offline. The increase is definitely more noticeable for offline though. Unfortunately it seems like we need EDGE & dedicated servers to come along for the full fix so should be ok for the WW2 module.
SYN_Jedders Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 (edited) OK, so now I have to ask, will DCS:WW2 only be released in the EDGE engine?. If so then what cockpit models/landscape work that we have already seen will be in the released game. I mean, if they are in the "old" engine then whats the point of doing them?. Are they, in fact, being developed in the EDGE engine?.... Given that it will need the EDGE engine and dedi servers to make MP work to the extent people want, do we have any idea when it will be ready to use?....I for one cant find a release date.... What happens if RRG get miles ahead of EDGE?... I am not trolling about this, I would genuinely like some facts! Edited January 30, 2014 by SYN_Jedders
SYN_Jedders Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 Just found this official thread about EDGE. Interesting points: "Typical questions that do not have answers: Will trees be collidable? Are the creation tools going to be made available to the public? What is the cost of Nevada if I did not pre-order DCS: A10C? When will new screenshots be posted? When will it be released?"
DD_bongodriver Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 OK, so now I have to ask, will DCS:WW2 only be released in the EDGE engine?. If so then what cockpit models/landscape work that we have already seen will be in the released game. I mean, if they are in the "old" engine then whats the point of doing them?. Are they, in fact, being developed in the EDGE engine?.... Given that it will need the EDGE engine and dedi servers to make MP work to the extent people want, do we have any idea when it will be ready to use?....I for one cant find a release date.... What happens if RRG get miles ahead of EDGE?... I am not trolling about this, I would genuinely like some facts! Have you asked over at the ED forum? Just found this official thread about EDGE. Interesting points: "Typical questions that do not have answers: Will trees be collidable? Are the creation tools going to be made available to the public? What is the cost of Nevada if I did not pre-order DCS: A10C? When will new screenshots be posted? When will it be released?" Link?
Tektolnes Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 DCS WW2 will be EDGE only as the Normandy landscape is being built currently using EDGE. Cockpits are separate to the landscape - what works currently in DCS World for the Mustang and later the FW190 D-9 will transfer across. The cockpits in DCS are already best in class so there's no concerns there. EDGE is currently pretty far along in development and they're at the integration into DCS stage - no release date as of yet but Wags said they're about 90% there. DCS WW2 isn't due until towards the end of the year so EDGE will be in place before then. Things have moved on since the questions that don't have answers stage in the original post. In relation to tree collisions they're working on having that included. Creation tools are likely going to be offered to the public via a SDK so users will be able to make their own maps - that being said it's a considerable project to put together a fully detailed map so would likely require a team of users to come together if something of DCS level quality was to be produced.
SYN_Jedders Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 Thanks, Tek. That clears it up a little. So the landscape work we have seen (which seemingly now we wont be using?) is in the EDGE engine. Cockpits etc are in the current engine but will port across. No timetable for EDGE release but it should be later in 2014 with DCS:WW2 following that. Im just trying to get a feel for what we are seeing in updates in terms of them actually being in the game. P.S. Bongo (http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=80468)
DD_bongodriver Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 P.S. Bongo (http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=80468) yes they were common questions back in 2011, as tektolnes has mentioned there have been answers since then and he has outlined them pretty well.
Tektolnes Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 So the landscape work we have seen (which seemingly now we wont be using?) is in the EDGE engine. Cockpits etc are in the current engine but will port across. No timetable for EDGE release but it should be later in 2014 with DCS:WW2 following that. Im just trying to get a feel for what we are seeing in updates in terms of them actually being in the game. The landscape work we've seen is EDGE but only very early in the creation process so the final work is going to be considerably different to what was shown during KS. For a better feel of how EDGE is going to look in practice you can check out the more recent Nevada map videos over on the ED forum that Wags has released. There's no indication at all that the Normandy landscape work done to now has been abandoned - the only comment we've had was that the mapping artist said work on his side had slowed down which ties in with Ilya said as they're working on DCS integration and will return to the landscape after that. Everything that Ilya has shown so far (cockpits & landscape only so far) will be in the game - though everything is subject to change naturally.
SYN_Jedders Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 (edited) I guess we cant really ask for any concrete visuals until EDGE is completed and models ported to it. Looking forward to it tho!. One of the big bits of info is the inclusion of dedicated software in EDGE which should address a lot of the MP stability issues with the current build. Edited January 30, 2014 by SYN_Jedders
SYN_DerHesse70 Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 (edited) Edit the tracer_bullet_red.lods file found in .../Bazar/World/Shapes folder Try changing it to: Code:lods = {{"tracer_bullet_red.edm",600}; {"tracer_bullet_red-LOD.edm",2000}; {"tracer_bullet_red-LOD2.edm",10000}; }; It should improve your FPS when firing guns in the P51 both online and offline. The increase is definitely more noticeable for offline though. Unfortunately it seems like we need EDGE & dedicated servers to come along for the full fix so should be ok for the WW2 module. Sorry but there is no workaround for MP! Did you read this thread? Posting #63 from Wags is important: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=1961941#post1961941 @Jedders: Luthier said there is no tree collision in the EDGE engine planned by ED. But they (RRG) will try to implement it. But they can't promise it. Edited January 30, 2014 by SYN_DerHesse70
BFsSmurfy Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 What happened to the choices options we were supposed to be getting, I wanted the Dora and the Alpha access (which was initally posted on the KS site as being in Feb). I don`t keep track of DCS WW2 I admit but has anyone picked what they want yet.
SYN_DerHesse70 Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 What happened to the choices options we were supposed to be getting, I wanted the Dora and the Alpha access (which was initally posted on the KS site as being in Feb). I don`t keep track of DCS WW2 I admit but has anyone picked what they want yet. Nothing happened. Luthier still keeps silent!
Tektolnes Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 Nothing happened. Luthier still keeps silent! Not true - as per the KS update sent out to all backers on 27/12: "Finally, I know many of you are very concerned about the state of kickstarter rewards fulfillment system. The work has not been progressing nearly as fast as we needed. We’re still not there. Including paypal with kickstarter ended up adding a huge layer of complexity because we can no longer just use kickstarter’s features. Programming everything together, bringing the lists of kickstarter and paypal backers, and integrating it with DCS forums and other site features just turned out to be a nightmare. At this point, it almost seems like it would have been easier for me to manually do the reward surveys via email or something basic like that. At this point, looks like the roll-out is not going to happen until at least the end of January 2014. For this I sincerely apologize. I should have planned this out better. In hindsight, I should have stuck with kickstarter alone."
SYN_DerHesse70 Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 (edited) Not true - as per the KS update sent out to all backers on 27/12: "Finally, I know many of you are very concerned about the state of kickstarter rewards fulfillment system. The work has not been progressing nearly as fast as we needed. We’re still not there. Including paypal with kickstarter ended up adding a huge layer of complexity because we can no longer just use kickstarter’s features. Programming everything together, bringing the lists of kickstarter and paypal backers, and integrating it with DCS forums and other site features just turned out to be a nightmare. At this point, it almost seems like it would have been easier for me to manually do the reward surveys via email or something basic like that. At this point, looks like the roll-out is not going to happen until at least the end of January 2014. For this I sincerely apologize. I should have planned this out better. In hindsight, I should have stuck with kickstarter alone." I'm speaking for the DCS:WWII forum respectively RRG forum. This is the official forum for DCS:WWII on the Eagle Dynamics side. I pledged over DCS per paypal. The kickstarter page doesn't interest me. Luthier took our money and never responded since october 2013!! The same bad habit like in COD before. Edited January 30, 2014 by SYN_DerHesse70
Tektolnes Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 I'm speaking for the DCS:WWII forum respectively RRG forum. This is the official forum for DCS:WWII on the Eagle Dynamics side. I pledged over DCS per paypal. The kickstarter page doesn't interest me. Luthier took our money and never responded since october 2013!! The same bad habit like in COD before. Ok so now your "silence" claim has been amended to be silence in one particular place. There's been updates every 1-2 weeks from Ilya on KS over the past while - all of those have been copy posted in the ED forums and discussed by forum members there. They're done through KS as not every backer is a member of the ED forums. Your claimed silence on the delay in the website was perfectly visible in the ED forums. You seem more interested in bashing the guy and your argument so far lacks credibility completely. No doubt you'll amend your argument again rather than admit that what you've said up to now has been incorrect but I'm done. If you have a problem bring it to the ED forums.
SYN_DerHesse70 Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 1C and or Ubisoft took your money, Luthier took a salary. My paypal payment for DCS:WWII went direct to luthier himself!! I never got an answer or acknowledgement. Also nobody asked me which plane i want. Every paypal pledger got no response from Luthier till today. That's not alright. @Tektolnes: I brought my problems to ED forum. And i'm not the only. The riot get's bigger every day Luthier keeps silent. And i'm posting my opinion here for all the peolple that you are telling everything is great. That isn't the truth! Also the alpha will not start in february like stated. You will be happy if you see it in 3 months.
JtD Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 There are folks who pledged a few hundred $ and haven't gotten anything yet. It is pretty bad. Somewhat better than I feared it would be, but clearly worse than I hoped it would be. Luthier asked for help some time ago, a part time position as community manager is vacant. Has anything happened there?
Tektolnes Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 I brought my problems to ED forum. And i'm not the only. The riot get's bigger every day Luthier keeps silent. And i'm posting my opinion here for all the peolple that you are telling everything is great. That isn't the truth! Also the alpha will not start in february like stated. You will be happy if you see it in 3 months. Except he hasn't been silent as per KS updates which are in the ED forums. I haven't been saying everything is great. Progress looks decent to me in the actual game itself but it is disappointing that the website for all backers hasn't been done yet. That website only really matters right now for those who wanted P51 keys so hopefully Feb will see something happen there. For everybody else it's irrelevant right now as none of the other backer rewards actually exist to deliver. Alpha may well be delayed. I backed Elite Dangerous at premium beta expecting to be in the game in Feb as per what they said on KS and that's going to be delayed by a couple of months it seems. I'm working as part of a very large project in work and that's experiencing delays as well. These things happen with large complex projects where the complexity of every factor is not always fully realised at the start of the project and / or new requirements come in which throw out the original dates. From what I can see they're working hard at it and it'll get done when it's done. No amount of me jumping up and down on internet forums will have much influence on that.
Feathered_IV Posted January 30, 2014 Posted January 30, 2014 There are folks who pledged a few hundred $ and haven't gotten anything yet. It is pretty bad. Somewhat better than I feared it would be, but clearly worse than I hoped it would be. Luthier asked for help some time ago, a part time position as community manager is vacant. Has anything happened there? The Community Manager idea would not produce any significant improvement. It would just give luthier someone to keep in the dark on a one-on-one basis. The alpha I would not expect to see for a good while yet. Maybe even next year.
Chuck_Owl Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 That is a nice video showing what DCS can do.. not sure how it offers up anything about MP. You are right, Bearcat. It is a scripted mission I made, but the only human pilot was me. MP is broken at the moment.
DD_bongodriver Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 (edited) I'm speaking for the DCS:WWII forum respectively RRG forum. This is the official forum for DCS:WWII on the Eagle Dynamics side. I pledged over DCS per paypal. The kickstarter page doesn't interest me. Luthier took our money and never responded since october 2013!! The same bad habit like in COD before. 1C and or Ubisoft took your money for COD, Luthier took a salary. Edited January 31, 2014 by DD_bongodriver 3
SYN_DerHesse70 Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 (edited) Sorry if i didn't wrote it clear enough. "The sam bad habit like in COD before" as related to the way how they communicate with the customers!! The part with the money refers to DCS:WWII. Edited January 31, 2014 by SYN_DerHesse70
DD_bongodriver Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 Not a uniquely bad habit though, it's the exception when developers have regular comms with customers like 777, kind of unfair when you think about it, to set the benchmark against someone who makes more effort than necessary. 1
FlatSpinMan Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 SYN_DerHesse70 I can understand your frustration, but we really can't have this kind of talk here. The sim world is small and we don't want to disparage others trying to make it successful. It does seem that PR is not Luthier's strong point, but from the info that is out there, the game seems to be coming along pretty well.
DD_bongodriver Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 (edited) Update 27 is out, the P-47 external 3d model looks really nice, just missing it's clothes, some pics of the 109 pit too. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/508681281/dcs-wwii-europe-1944/posts/734565?ref=activity Edited January 31, 2014 by DD_bongodriver
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