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yaan98

What is the easiest plane to start with?

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I'm transitioning from RoF into this game, but I find a steep learning curve trying to master the technology of CEM. So, I'd like to learn on a plane which is forgiving of mistakes and where I'm not always trying to play catch-up with my squadmates when formation flying.

 

What do y'll suggest?

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109 F-4. Why?

CEM is pretty much automated (but you can control it manually). Overall the best performing aircraft, climbs better than anything else, accelerates better, is faster, dives better, gentle low speed characteristics, decent visibility, lots of cannon ammo etc.

It's really quite difficult to do badly in this plane.

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Most forgiving and easy to control is beyond a doubt the Bf 109G2. Its engine controls are all automatic (with manual overrides for prop pitch and radiators) and its power is capped at a safe level (unlike the F4) so you can fly it at 100% throttle all day long and never touch an engine control. It's got plenty of engine power to spare, climbs like a rocket and is extremely forgiving to piloting mistakes. It's also fairly easy to take off and land. (Remember to set individual left/right brakes though)

 

The 109 can teach you the basics, but only just that. Use it for too long, and it'll teach you some bad habits, that you just won't get away with in other planes.

 

Transition as quick as you can to the Yak-1. It's powerful, easy to control and extremely maneuverable, if a bit nose heavy. It's CEM is very straightforward (below 4000m you can basically use one setting and fly at 100% all day and get close to optimal performance). From there you can perhaps go to the IL-2 to get a plane that's very easy to fly but requires more of a careful look at the temperature gauge. There you can also learn how to handle the different weapons systems.

 

From there it's more or less a matter of taste what you pick.

Edited by Finkeren
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Yup - 109s are like driving a car with automatic transmission. Lagg/Yak/etc like driving a manual. After flying Russian for a while then trying the 109 I get confused - feel like I should be doing something with my hands.  :fly:

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Transition as quick as you can to the Yak-1. It's powerful, easy to control and extremely maneuverable

In what way is the Yak-1 extremely manoeuvrable?

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S!

 

 The CEM is not hard on VVS planes. Set certain values to oil/cowl/radiators and adjust the rest with throttle position, now and then remember to use correct charger gear. Easy as walking in a park. No need to adjust mixture at all either. Trimming is more a chore than the CEM in VVS planes. German rides are automated, but you have to keep a "reserve" of engine power to get out of a tight spot without blowing your engine in the process.

 

 Yak-1 rolls fast, turns well and retain Energy insanely well.

Edited by LLv34_Flanker

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In what way is the Yak-1 extremely manoeuvrable?

 

Yeah, I should rephrase that.

 

At certain speeds the Yak turns faster than any other fighter both in the horizontal and in the vertical. It doesn't climb quite as well as the 109 and doesn't roll quite as well as the Fw 190/La-5. It's got very well balanced, responsive controls and can be thrown around in tight, complicated  maneuvers that leave everything else behind with the exception of the 109. Push it too far and it does have a sharp stall, so learn its limits. 

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If you've flown RoF you shouldn't have too much problem with CEM anyway. I have flown the Lagg and IL2 and find them pretty easy. The thing to learn is what to look out for. Some rules of thumb for those two craft:

 

  • Close oil and water rads to take off. RPM max.
  • Mixture max on takeoff.
  • When you're in the air oil and water rads to 50%, rpm and throttle down to about 75% (You can tweak from there)
  • In flight try not to labor the engine. Increase throttle first and RPM if you absolutely need it. 
  • RPM/throttle down and radiators closed a bit if you are going into a long fast descent (eg dropping a kilometer or so.) You don't want to either over-rev or over-cool.
  • Mixture goes inverse to your height, so max at ground level, and the higher you go, the leaner you go.
  • In the Lagg click your supercharger into second gear about 2k up.

It's not too hard. Learn where your temperature gages are and keep them round the middle without fussing too much. Learn where your tacho and manifold pressure are and glance at them from time to time to learn where they should be for cruise flight. Listen - if the engine sounds like it is working hard, then it probably is, so unless you are in combat conditions you may wish to ease off.

 

Given that RoF implements throttle, mixture, radiators, and even "altitude mixture" (a primitive supercharger) in some planes, there really isn't a lot here that you haven't seen. ;)

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By far the LaGG3.

 

:wacko:

 

Saying that though, if you've mastered the Lagg3 you can master anything. Sometimes it's best to start with the worst, sounds crazy I know but you'll be surprised how many people have this mind set.

Edited by =69.GIAP=RADKO
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LaGG 3 is my favourite, but I think the IL2 is the easiest to take off, fly and land.

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I find the LaGG 3 and the Yak-1 pretty easy learners as you can set throttle and RPM's to max as long as your rads are open and not worry about blowing an engine.

 

Landings and taxiing are different stories.

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A lot of knowledgable folks here, I see.

 

I think this forum will be a good resource for me when I need it. :cool:

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A couple more details:

 

I don't know if you own any of the two Premium aircraft, but if you have the La-5 remember that it has a special "boost button", which you can press when at low level to get extra power outpu. It only works if you're on supercharger gear 1 and loses effectiveness with altitude - it's practically useless above 2000m. There is no time limit for use of the boost, but it will heat the engine quickly and force you to open the cooling flaps which cause a lot of drag.

 

The Bf 109 F4 and Fw 190 engines can be operated above their rated power, which will damage and ultimately kill the engine if run for too long. I don't remember the limits for the F4 as I hardly ever fly it, but for the 190 you can run at "combat power" for around 30 mins per mission (which corresponds to 1.21 - 1.32 ATA on the manifold pressure gauge or around 85% throttle (which can can vary a bit so take care)) It can also run in "emergency mode" for a total of 3 mins per mission (corresponding to 1.33 - 1.41 ATA or anything above 85% throttle). The F4 has similar limits but with different numbers.

 

Both the Ju 87 and He 111 are very sensitive to running at too high RPM, so only ever use the highest prop pitch settings for take off or you'll fry the engine in no time. Again I don't remember the exact limits, but someone else can no doubt fill you in there.


Also: While the LaGG-3 is definately the least capable fighter in BoS (no a complete dog, but clearly inferior) it's actually a very pleasant plane to fly and a lot of fun to use in combat. If I'm just going to fly around a bit, I always choose the LaGG.

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Also: While the LaGG-3 is definately the least capable fighter in BoS (no a complete dog, but clearly inferior) it's actually a very pleasant plane to fly and a lot of fun to use in combat. If I'm just going to fly around a bit, I always choose the LaGG.

To add to that the LaGG is an excellent airfield attack plane, if you're just starting out and you wanted to get some time in online it can be really fun to do runs on parked aircraft at enemy airfields.

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I have to say the Yak is definitely the easiest to do good in for me at least.

It flies coordinated all by itself most of the time compared to the bf 109s where you have to keep an eye on the slip ball all the time and correct with rudder. I've been able to out climb and catch up to 109s on numerous occasions cause he is flying sideways. The Yak also have very nice force trim with a FFB stick, trim down a bit to move the stick center further forward and it becomes very stable to aim with compared to the 109 whose nose starts bouncing unless you are very careful with the stick.  

 

  • CEM of the Yak is not that complex, you can run at 100% throttle and 100% RPM for as long as you want. Just look at the two temp gauges and start opening the radiators if they get close to 100 degrees.
  • Switch to second supercharger gear at ~2000m. 
  • Around 3000-4000m you will have to start lowering your mixture in increments with altitude, open the canopy and look at the exhaust flames, if they are yellow lower mixture until they just turn blue.

 

If more people gave the Yak a chance they would find out that it's very equal to the 109 in many ways and better in some.  Always keep it offensive, never try to climb away from a 109 unless your energy advantage is huuuge.. Don't be scared of dropping the flaps if the fight gets slow, it usually turn into scissors then and as your flaps deploy faster you can get behind the 109 quicker than he can react with his slow flap wheel.

 

 

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I have to say the Yak is definitely the easiest to do good in for me at least.

It flies coordinated all by itself most of the time compared to the bf 109s where you have to keep an eye on the slip ball all the time and correct with rudder. I've been able to out climb and catch up to 109s on numerous occasions cause he is flying sideways. The Yak also have very nice force trim with a FFB stick, trim down a bit to move the stick center further forward and it becomes very stable to aim with compared to the 109 whose nose starts bouncing unless you are very careful with the stick.  

 

  • CEM of the Yak is not that complex, you can run at 100% throttle and 100% RPM for as long as you want. Just look at the two temp gauges and start opening the radiators if they get close to 100 degrees.
  • Switch to second supercharger gear at ~2000m. 
  • Around 3000-4000m you will have to start lowering your mixture in increments with altitude, open the canopy and look at the exhaust flames, if they are yellow lower mixture until they just turn blue.

 

If more people gave the Yak a chance they would find out that it's very equal to the 109 in many ways and better in some.  Always keep it offensive, never try to climb away from a 109 unless your energy advantage is huuuge.. Don't be scared of dropping the flaps if the fight gets slow, it usually turn into scissors then and as your flaps deploy faster you can get behind the 109 quicker than he can react with his slow flap wheel.

 

does this realy works? This would be an insane detail!

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does this realy works? This would be an insane detail!

 

I don't know if I'd call it "insane". It's just a visual representation of the modelling of mixture settings that already works in the sim (as well as in RoF and most other sims with piston engined aircraft) 

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S!

 

 Flame turns blue if lowering mixture, but does it really affect the performance in any way?

 

Absolutely does. The small corrections don't do that much, but just try turning the mixture halfway down towards 'lean' when you're down low and watch your MP drop.

 

When going down from 4000m to treetop level some correction wil almost always be necessary to keep performance up and a smooth running.

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More I read such threads more I am convinced that this game really needs proper tutorial - ingame flight school.RoF had pretty cute training program for real beginners,even explaining magic behind why those wooden crates fly! Devs should incorporate it ASAP to stand to their statement that all those other things we dont like were implemented to attract new recruits into flightsim market.

You need proper training program for recruits.If you fail to provide it,you will face the same situation as Red Army and its VVS did from 22.6.1941.Chaos and mass desertion ;)

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True Brano, 

 

but then again, I can't see my home life ( only place I can play il2 bos at... ) that compatible with indepth learning... That's also why I have RoF installed for quite a long time, but never really played it :-(

 

There are already some good basic tutorials and aircraft familiarization youtubes and PFDs... I have them all saved, and whenever possible watch / read them in a few spare minutes.

 

Most of the time I start IL2 BOS at some MP session, and jump into action for a few minutes, many times not more than 10'...  It's difficult to get proficient this way, and even less to get someone ( squadron ) to

fly with... And, TeamSpeak is another mandatory tool for "serious" combat flight simulation that I am seldom able to use ( just when there is nobody at home... )

 

Simmer Tales....

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Yes,there are many videos and tutorials,but that is not excuse for not having proper tutorial ingame.There are lots of people who does not know that such things even exist.I can imagine myself as newbie in flightsims:

I start the game and see menu with lots of possibilities... Multiplayer...?Should I press the button...dunno..hmm...Quick mission....whats that? Like it is realy quick just for 1 minute? Or do I have to be quick?.......confused.....aaah here is Tutorial/Flight school...that should have some usefull things inside for me...click on it...and here we go :salute:

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I don't know that it particularly needs a tutorial into too much of this stuff. If you fly on normal everything about CEM and much of the aerodynamics are hidden from you. If you start flying with CEM then it is pretty much about learning each aircraft and how the systems work. The magic stuff (like the difference between Yak and 109 flap performance) is grognardy stats based trainspotter stuff that only experts need know. 

 

... now a manual, a la RoF manual... that we could really use.  :rtfm:

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If mixture works properly, lowering the mixture at sea level should boost your engine but made it overheat much quicker? Someone should test this

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If mixture works properly, lowering the mixture at sea level should boost your engine but made it overheat much quicker? Someone should test this:

Not quite so.

 

TO is always tp be performed at max mixture. After climbout you might lean it a few % to stay with the blue-orange flame. Stying there will provide you with a more optimized mix for greater performance but greater engine heat as well while 100% offers less power / better cooling properties.

 

Lowering it further will additionally increase engien heat and lower power perfromance. So too rich mixture is way healthier for the engine than too lean mixture.

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What everybody else said, the 109 is the perfect plane to learn how to fly in a WW2 crate.

 

However, for actual CEM I'd recommend a Russian plane to be honest, especially the Yak-1. It's so ridiculously robust and the CEM needed to have it perform properly is ridiculously primitive. Heck, throttle to 100% and then adjust your speed with via RPM is a viable way to fly it in some situations  :biggrin:

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Easiest plane to start with? And what's the goal? Is the goal to learn to fly the BOS airplanes? Is the goal to score high numbers?

 

If flight is the goal then Jak 1 and LaGG3 are really sweet planes to control.

If scoring kills is the goal then Bf 109 F4 is the ultimate choice (G2 comes a bit behind).

 

It may look strange but the Jak and LaGG are nice to fly but difficult to be succesfull with. The LaGG is a really poor choice for air combat. The Jak is a good choice but is stil inferior to the Bf 109 and performance wise to the FW 190 too.

The Bf 109 F4 is the best overall performer in BOS. But it's not exactly easy to fly and i personally do not like its lack of stability. On the other hand once mastered it's the best choice to kill and to survive.

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Easiest plane to start with? And what's the goal? Is the goal to learn to fly the BOS airplanes? Is the goal to score high numbers?

 

My goal is to learn CEM gradually so that I can become proficient at flying WWII aircraft.

 

Right now, I'm having a hard enough time just to keep situational awareness as these planes are like rockets giving me damn near whiplash just trying to follow them.

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Not quite so.

 

TO is always tp be performed at max mixture. After climbout you might lean it a few % to stay with the blue-orange flame. Stying there will provide you with a more optimized mix for greater performance but greater engine heat as well while 100% offers less power / better cooling properties.

 

Lowering it further will additionally increase engien heat and lower power perfromance. So too rich mixture is way healthier for the engine than too lean mixture.

 

a lean mixture produces more power at the cost of more heat. I run a classic bike where I have to set the mixture manually. On cold mornings it has noticeble more power than on a hot afternoon. lean mixture = more O2 result in more power and heat. If a lean mixture overheats your engine in BoS (I never tested it) it should also boost your power output

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yaan98,try these 2 missions which are located in the main menu under same name MISSIONS

1.Take-off and landing,calm with LaGG3 - to get familiar with manual engine controls

2.Take off and landing crosswind with Bf109F - to get familiar with automatic engine controls

There are some usefull instructions in mission description.

 

You should check also tutorials made by Chuck (thanks!) It is a must for pilots in training.

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/10268-chucks-aircraft-guide/

 

I wish devs had more time to make such training missions for every plane in game.Basic procedures from engine startup,taxiing,take off,basic maneuvers,instruments reading,engine limits,climb rates,optimal cruising and climb speed,landing,armament,shooting,bombing etc.

Edited by Brano
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Thanks for the tip Brano. Very interesting to read all this info.

 

I like history and have a very basic idea 'bout WWII, so I need to start my research and will look in Amazon for some books.

 

y

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No problem,fellow pilot.Welcome on board and enjoy :salute:

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My goal is to learn CEM gradually so that I can become proficient at flying WWII aircraft.

 

Right now, I'm having a hard enough time just to keep situational awareness as these planes are like rockets giving me damn near whiplash just trying to follow them.

CEM of russian planes is not too complex. You can forget mixture control under 4000m. You just set RPM slightly below takeoff regime and you are done. Then all you have to do from time  to time is to watch the temp gauges. But again, If you do not run at 100% RPM, it's as easy as setting the rads to 70% and you are done most of the time. It takes couple of minutes to get these few CEM controls in the head. The Yak 1 is an very easy to fly airplane. Also it's easy to maneuvre. The Bf 109 is kinda nasty with its asymmetrical slat deployment and bouncy response to inputs and poor longitudinal stability. The FW 190 is easy to fly but hard to maser in combat. You have to be very patient and disciplined. The La 5 is a Russian FW 190. The LaGG is a performance underdog but also as easy to fly as the Yak. So I'd suggest you to get used to RPM, Mixture and Radiator controls and give the Yak a try.

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My goal is to learn CEM gradually so that I can become proficient at flying WWII aircraft.

 

Right now, I'm having a hard enough time just to keep situational awareness as these planes are like rockets giving me damn near whiplash just trying to follow them.

 

I felt the same when I started out. I found that it was easiest for me to fly on normal difficulty and turn off helpers for the CEM I wanted to learn to manage. 

 

leftShift-M Turns on/off general auto engine management (mixture, rpm, etc)

leftShift-N Turns off auto RPM limiter

leftShift-R turns off radiators/heat auto management

 

(There's also keys for turning off icons, maps, hud and stuff, but I generally just hit H and hide them all.)

 

So I started out turning off auto engine and rpm limit (and leaving heat management to the autopilot) to learn that first. If things got too hot I could turn them on again and concentrate on situational awareness. (Also because the autopilot uses the same flight model, it will operate the CEM engine controls to appropriate settings, which can reinforce learning.)

 

Once mixture and rpm started to click I could turn off radiator management and do that too, but if things went awry stick it back on. The number of times I mistakenly slammed into the ground trying to remember which gage was which on the dashboard I wouldn't like to think. Slowly it became second nature... that and I remembered to stick on level autopilot while I was concentrating on which knob corresponded to which in plane control which mapped to what engine system which was monitored by what gage.

 

Eventually all the parts became second nature and now I find myself doing everything at once without even thinking about it because I am too busy scanning the horizon or potential threats.

 

WW2 pilots avoided dogfights if they could, but just as we hear that the person with the most energy wins the fight, it is also the person with the most situational awareness, and situational awareness is a finite resource. A classic strategy is to wear away at an opponents situational awareness so they lose the ability to react to you. 

 

You only have so many brain cells, so until CEM starts to become second nature (like a reflex through practice) it is best to not overload yourself with too much at once. Concentrate on learning each aspect well until it doesn't take up much room in your brain, and eventually you will find yourself doing all of it by habit, with the rest of your brain available for active tasks like staying alive. 

 

Hope this helps.  :salute:

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As fellow RoF immigrant I'd say Ju-87. It has all CEM systems you need to learn (except retractable landing gear) and it's handling is closest to RoF planes (large wing load, forgiving in turn, low stall speed, low landing speed etc). It's only plane compatibile with my landing reflexes from RoF enough to for me to land it the same evening it was released, too.  

German fighters have most engine systems automated, you just move throttle forwards and backwards. They are much less forgiving at handling, though, so that's where you go for new stick and rudder reflexes.

Like pavig said, you can turn training wheels on and off in mission to concentrate on systems you are learning.

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