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Anthropomorphic Controls in BoS

Anthropomorphic Controls in BoS  

370 members have voted

  1. 1. Would you like to have Anthropomorphic Controls in BoS (This feature ensures that the pilot can't do things in the cockpit that a real pilot couldn't do considering they only have two hands)

    • 1. Yes
      145
    • 2, No
      223


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Perhapes if implemented only for secondary functions (leave off X,Y, rudder and throttle or axis at all).

So this prevent e.g. drop flaps and gear simultaneous...

 

Sokol1

Edited by Sokol1

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The unnecessary detail in the original COD effectively killed wide acceptance of COD for all but the hard core true believers. I've been flying since Janes WWII sim and I do it for fun not for some wild need to be full real for full real sake. None of the crappy controls (i.e., not using a HOTAS joystick) or detailed start up sequences (more on that later) had any effect on the control of the plane during flight other than to make it difficult to get it in the air. Really, what is the point of the game? Engine start-up and taxing or dogfighting and dropping bombs? Control of oil temperature, coolant temperature? Why don't you just put realistic limits to WEP and temperature profiles rather than having to play games with watching the oil and coolant temperature. Got to say in all of the WWII books by real fighter pilots I never heard them make a lot of noise about having to keep coolant and oil temps in line. Maybe you should shouldn't either. Given the real shortcomings in the IL2 games (i.e., modeling anything right but the Russian planes), a revisit to those flight models would have been a real nice update along with improved graphics.

Finally if you are going to require that people must fly the these planes in full real, provide the GD flight manuals with checklists so it is not like some fantasy game where you can have look for the secret sign or talisman to get to the next level. If (big if) I buy this game for some masochistic reason, I expect to find a real flight manual so I might actually understand how to get these planes to fly. So good luck, have fun running the game into the ground going down the full real path as you will have few new users (already shown by the original COD) and find us older users sticking to the flawed but flyable IL-2 1946 variants.

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More like BoS or any sim that isn't CloD. 

Voted no, with flaps not bindable to axis an throttle quadrant has anthropomorphic control built in, on user side. 

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The unnecessary detail in the original COD effectively killed wide acceptance of COD for all but the hard core true believers. I've been flying since Janes WWII sim and I do it for fun not for some wild need to be full real for full real sake. None of the crappy controls (i.e., not using a HOTAS joystick) or detailed start up sequences (more on that later) had any effect on the control of the plane during flight other than to make it difficult to get it in the air. Really, what is the point of the game? Engine start-up and taxing or dogfighting and dropping bombs? Control of oil temperature, coolant temperature? Why don't you just put realistic limits to WEP and temperature profiles rather than having to play games with watching the oil and coolant temperature. Got to say in all of the WWII books by real fighter pilots I never heard them make a lot of noise about having to keep coolant and oil temps in line. Maybe you should shouldn't either. Given the real shortcomings in the IL2 games (i.e., modeling anything right but the Russian planes), a revisit to those flight models would have been a real nice update along with improved graphics.

Finally if you are going to require that people must fly the these planes in full real, provide the GD flight manuals with checklists so it is not like some fantasy game where you can have look for the secret sign or talisman to get to the next level. If (big if) I buy this game for some masochistic reason, I expect to find a real flight manual so I might actually understand how to get these planes to fly. So good luck, have fun running the game into the ground going down the full real path as you will have few new users (already shown by the original COD) and find us older users sticking to the flawed but flyable IL-2 1946 variants.

 

CloD was broken from the getgo. The level of detail in controls wasn't the issue, it was the "what the hell is this" state of the game. It wasn't alpha, beta or anything else. It was a hodgepodge of 1946 and a new graphics engine - evidenced by the exact same high altitude FM issues (didn't exist), exact same (complete lack of) ground handling, and exact same lack of idea on how to model trees that are collidable (yes, I know they used speedtrees but that was a stopgap because they couldn't figure out how to do it).

 

Now as far as the rest, yes the engines had to be managed just the same as they do in modern day aircraft. If you fly a plane today you won't run at full throttle with all cooling closed and mixture at 0%. So there is a requirement to manage them, and that should be modelled.

 

You want to fly around in arcade mode? You can do that too here, it's in the difficulty settings. So enjoy it, you aren't set to one setting - the arcade modes exist but considering WT is free I think you'll find most arcade players there.

 

I've been playing much longer than Jane's arcade WWII fighter game, and on titles that are more simulation than Jane's, so "older users" already support this title.

Edited by FuriousMeow

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Successfully operating CoD-style simulated antrhopomorphic controls would require a level of "cockpit chess" that simply does not exist on real controls. That translates to a clear vote for "no".

 

Better leave that to text adventure flight sims:

"You are sitting in the cockpit of a Hawker Hurricane"
> push throttle
"That is impossible"
> move hand to throttle
"I don't know which hand to move"
> move left hand to throttle
"Your left hand is grabbing the throttle lever"
> push throttle
"You are hit by an artillery shell"
 

That being said, the original IL-2 has a very nice example of "moderately anthropomorphic" controls done right: the manual gear crank keys. Implementing a few particularly slow cockpit operations as "hold key until action is done" certainly won't do any harm, as long as there is sufficient on-screen feedback. Instead of artificially restricting the available "action bandwidth" of the desktop to the intended "action bandwidth" of the simulation (as CoD Anthro-Ctrl did) this would just require more real life activity for the same virtual activity, making the natural limitations of the desktop better match the intended level of activity in the simulation.

Edited by usr
  • Haha 1

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I guess anything that tries to replicate a real WW2 aircraft, I'm all for.  I've noticed that more and more players have HOTAS systems so potentially they are able to move numerous controls with one hand etc that perhaps historically just wouldn't be possible.  As an example, the I-16, flaps, undercarriage, throttle, control column and cooling system surely IRL couldn't be operated simultaneously, however, in this game they can!   Now I realise that this is a game, however, I thought that IL2 wanted to be better than the rest!?  However, currently without anthropomorphic controls, surely we just have a "beefed" up WT game and not a flight sim!?

That said, I guess most players just want a game and not a flight sim!

 

Regards

 

Haza

Edited by Haza

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1 hour ago, Haza said:

That said, I guess most players just want a game and not a flight sim!

 

A flight sim is a video game; just not all video games are flight sims.

Even if possible the full 100% total realism wouldn't be desirable because most of us wouldn't be able to commit to (or like) to flying/engage in combat in such conditions. It needs to be good enough, only. Not that fidelity improvements are unwelcome but there are practical limits. What about anthropomorphic bladder/bowel control for an example? That IRL was a serious concern of combat pilots but why we would need to deal with such stuff here?

 

Or... maybe we should or like... Getting your ***** frozen to a relief tube could make for some "funny" in cockpit animations...

Edited by Ehret
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Guys, it ain't happening. It's a solution in search of a problem that just isn't there to justify the work to get it working right. 

 

Besides, it was tried in CoD and was a total failure. If you don't believe me, run some searches on the topic to see how much it's hated there. 

  • Haha 1

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12 hours ago, Ehret said:

 

A flight sim is a video game; just not all video games are flight sims.

Even if possible the full 100% total realism wouldn't be desirable because most of us wouldn't be able to commit to (or like) to flying/engage in combat in such conditions. It needs to be good enough, only. Not that fidelity improvements are unwelcome but there are practical limits. What about anthropomorphic bladder/bowel control for an example? That IRL was a serious concern of combat pilots but why we would need to deal with such stuff here?

 

Or... maybe we should or like... Getting your ***** frozen to a relief tube could make for some "funny" in cockpit animations...

 

@Ehret

 

Well, to be honest, you can auto-level (another non realistic selection but helpful) and go for a slash or a dump, or you can just  *iss/*hit your pants.  However, I like the third option and that is that some guys might even wear adult nappies for either action.  Therefore, perhaps the developers have simulated those RL issues very well, with all of the RL solutions!? 

 

1 hour ago, LukeFF said:

Guys, it ain't happening. It's a solution in search of a problem that just isn't there to justify the work to get it working right. 

 

Besides, it was tried in CoD and was a total failure. If you don't believe me, run some searches on the topic to see how much it's hated there. 

 

@LukeFF,

 

Not sure how it can be a solution in search of a problem, when the problem is that in game you can conduct multiple tasks simultaneously, that IRL just couldn't be undertaken.  Indeed, I read of players continually comparing the game with real facts and figures and demanding accuracy etc (with you being one of those usually defending the figures) yet being able to move multiple controls simultaneously that just couldn't be done IRL is deemed to be acceptable?  I realise that you are just a tester and perhaps not speaking on behalf of the developers, as I would like to think that they are at least aware of the issue and perhaps in the long term would like to address this problem but are currently  limited with resources etc and that I understand. However, I never had any issues in CLoD, hence why I would be happy to see it here

 

I for one like the idea of a true VR cockpit that perhaps allows for VR moving hands etc, however, this implies potentially a clickable cockpit, but it will be interesting to see how the anthropomorphic issues are resolved if the game evolves to this level of VR, as surely this would require some form of anthropomorphic control to limit what you could do!?  Therefore, I for one hope that the developers see "total failures" as you mention, as a way of learning from, rather than just abandoning the problem because it is all to hard.  That said, I guess you never know how much longer the game is going to be around for, so make hay while you can and just keep it simple! 

 

Regards

 

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2 hours ago, Haza said:

However, I never had any issues in CLoD, hence why I would be happy to see it here

 

 

Most likely you never had problems with this feature because all the MP servers shut it off.  They shut it off because it was an epic disaster.  It's not going to be added to this game.  Ever.  Never, ever, ever.

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3 hours ago, Haza said:

However, I never had any issues in CLoD, hence why I would be happy to see it here

 

Well...

 

https://steamcommunity.com/app/63950/discussions/0/135508292192392990/

https://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5058

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=36114

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=28681

 

You can laugh all you want at my comments, but that doesn't change the fact that the anthro. control option is roundly despised by CloD players.

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Just now, LukeFF said:

 

Well...

 

https://steamcommunity.com/app/63950/discussions/0/135508292192392990/

https://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5058

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=36114

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=28681

 

You can laugh all you want at my comments, but that doesn't change the fact that the anthro. control option is roundly despised by CloD players.

 

Well what? 

 

I said that I haven't had any issues with it and was not implying that others haven't, as that is just CloD and indeed even after 4 yrs and how many hours in MP playing it, I've never heard others in game or chat complaining about it, but thank you for taking the time to send me those links.  However, what I take away from those links, are players complaining about "Glitches" and the implementation of that system rather than the concept.  If we are to take CLoD as your example, it would appear that the game had major issues from its release and still does, but it still plods on! 

 

Therefore, perhaps what your links nicely demonstrate is what happens when something that is not done accurately or is not correctly supported, can fail.  I'm sure that there are enough issues raised even in BOS that still have not been resolved, but it doesn't mean that it can't be corrected.  I'm certainly not laughing at you, however, for somebody who appears to pride themselves regarding factual detail(s) and historical accuracies, I would have thought that you would have been a big supporter for the concept of anthropomorphic controls, although perhaps acknowledging that  it is beyond either the current scope or even the resources of this team. 

 

The OP was a poll and as such I voted yes, but I certainly do not expect it to be implemented immediately, however, rather I was perhaps hoping that the developers might look at it again (soon) and this time ensure that it is done correctly and make it work, as CloD has been out almost 6-7 yrs now and things do and can be changed!

 

Regards

Edited by Haza

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This might be the only poll that I have ever seen where people voted NO for a suggested feature.  So, considering that this feature was a disaster in CloD, and that the poll result in this forum is overwhelmingly NO, there is no chance that you'll see this feature added.

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1 hour ago, BraveSirRobin said:

This might be the only poll that I have ever seen where people voted NO for a suggested feature.  So, considering that this feature was a disaster in CloD, and that the poll result in this forum is overwhelmingly NO, there is no chance that you'll see this feature added.

 

I think we should start a poll asking if people would buy a Spanish Civil War sim with anthropomorphic controls, pilots in the internal cockpit view, and clickable cockpit controls. Oh, and all for the same price as the current BoX titles. Winner! 

Edited by LukeFF

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Just now, LukeFF said:

 

I think we should start a poll asking if people would buy a Spanish Civil War sim with anthropomorphic controls, pilots in the internal cockpit view, and clickable cockpit controls. Oh, and all for the same price as the current BoX titles. Winner! 

 

Well I gladly bought the tank game as well, even though I have little interest in tanks.  However, I must have forgotten to vote in that poll as well, as I'm sure the majority of guys here would have said "No" (noting that BSR bought it), although perhaps this new avenue is to try and attract others into the game slowly, then break them into the flight sim area of the franchise once they realise the attention to detail etc with the product.  In deed, looking at the current owners of the tank game, there seems to be a lack of support, but perhaps it is still to early to comment.

 

The fact remains, the developers will do as they see fit for the game to succeed, indeed, BoBp wasn't on my radar, but once again I have supported the guys in their venture!  If Jason went ahead and did your suggestion above, I would probably buy it as I've come to expect a certain quality of product from these guys, however, they need to keep the interest alive and customers hungry for new and different things.  Therefore, your suggestions of the implementation of pilots in the cockpit, clickable cockpits (with VR I hope) and with anthropomorphic controls might be the next stage that needs to be taken, who knows?

 

The fact remains that it was a poll and everybody should be able to have their say and put forward their arguments, even if they may have different views!

 

Regard 

Edited by Haza

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It might not be needed in CoD - but in FC it would be a real asset - pulling high gee turns while clearing a misfire? I don't think so!

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One can make this very complicated or very simple. I'd implement a simple routine which, as soon as the currently applied stick forces exceed a certain value, limit the pilot to the buttons present on the control column of his aircraft (mostly triggers) and general commands that are not plane-related, like managing views and zoom factor. Why? Because by that time the pilot would have both hands on the stick, working hard. IMO, being able to fiddle with prop pitch, throttle, trim and flaps when both hands would be needed on the control column is arcade.

Even modern jet pilots are very limited when it comes to moving the hands around in the cockpit under g. That's also one of the reasons HOTAS systems were developed.

Edited by JG27_PapaFly

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Not. Gonna. Happen

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