Developer Diary, Part 81

[IRRE_Belmont]

I'm going to give one more warning. Don't get personal with each other or I will start banning people.

 

Jason

 

Look Jason, most of us here had hope for this game, we tought it was the true successor of IL2 1946..

Looks like it will not.

 

By keeping this unlock this unlock system, it's normal to expect such reactions from the community.. Most of us here, will simply leave the game if it's going to follow that part, be sure of it..

Altough, it's not a reason for some to insults you guys

[Feathered_IV]

There will be some ROF news in the near future.

 

Jason

 

Looking forward to that

[354thFG_Leifr]

How did I fault the customer? I said that we said what the design was going to be n the Dev blogs and Streams and yes, the developer gets to decide what the final design is like. I'm surprised that you all say you're so surprised. Lots of people I talked to knew about the unlocks and how it would work. Guess I assumed this wouldn't be a surprise. What if anything can I do after the fact except tell you that I hear you and will of course discuss feedback this with my partners. I've been completely honest about my position. People who have whatever beef with me keep trying to paint a picture that simply isn't true.

 

And I love when people tell me ROF is dead and unfinished. It's dead and finished when I say it is, but for now new customers keep coming every day so it's plenty healthy. There will be some ROF news in the near future.

 

Jason

 

But we are, chap*. I have never refuted that you've been clear on an unlock system being implemented into Stalingrad, I understood that on the day of purchase after watch development for several months. We all knew it was coming in one form or another; the 'angsty outcry' generally seems to be first at the level of implementation of said unlock system, and then with the apparent ignorance blind-man approach of 777/1C. AbortedMan demonstrated the general misunderstanding with this post, it's never been clear to the point of transparency. You shouldn't be assuming anything Jason, not in this day and age.

I don't have any real beef with you, although I know you have your detractors out there.

 

Well, the servers are generally empty aside from SYNDICATE and Wargrounds (sounds familiar here already?). Sooner or later you're going to have posts like this appearing here, it's never struck me as being particularly healthy in any regard.

[dragon76]

Never expected a dev talking to customers like that no matter what.

Edited October 7, 2014 by dragon76

[Madov]

He tells it like it is, no more and no less. At least you have to admit that you get straight talking from these guys, notwithstanding translational issues.

[HBB*Hunger]

How did I fault the customer? I said that we said what the design was going to be n the Dev blogs and Streams and yes, the developer gets to decide what the final design is like. I'm surprised that you all say you're so surprised. Lots of people I talked to knew about the unlocks and how it would work. Guess I assumed this wouldn't be a surprise. What if anything can I do after the fact except tell you that I hear you and will of course discuss feedback this with my partners. I've been completely honest about my position. People who have whatever beef with me keep trying to paint a picture that simply isn't true.

 

And I love when people tell me ROF is dead and unfinished. It's dead and finished when I say it is, but for now new customers keep coming every day so it's plenty healthy. There will be some ROF news in the near future.

 

Jason

 

As I remember no one said that you'll be forced to play quick-missions without a campaign structure to get these unlocks. Sorry Jason. 

[Afwastus]

 

He tells it like it is, no more and no less. At least you have to admit that you get straight talking from these guys, notwithstanding translational issues.

 

 

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think the value of straight talk is only there so long as there aren't language barriers present that prevent the listener from understanding what the speaker is trying to convey?

 

I mean my grandfather will try to talk English to you and he may succeed in a way, but a lot of what he is trying to say will be lost in translation due to his poor English skills. So sure, I can say my grandfather is a straight-talking Swede, but that doesn't mean his English skills are good enough for the job.

 

I must also admit, I don't quite see the point of debating who is most too blame for what appears to be a fundamental disconnect regarding what type of game was promised. No matter how you look at it, it is a rather negative sign, if most of the playerbase feels completely surprised by the direction of the game.

 

To make a silly but relevant example: If after months of planning and communication I am sure that you know we are baking a cake and it turns out you think we are baking a salmon then "Houston, we have a problem." (That's a terrifying difference in perception and indicates something is very wrong.)

Edited October 7, 2014 by Afwastus

[Madov]

Communication being a two way street, it is incumbent on the listener as much as the speaker to ensure that efficient passage of information has transpired.

[FG28Kodiak]

I personal never thought the Unlock System will affect multiplayer, so it's my fault to be so silly. The most people i know, which get early access, spend their money to support the genre, they never read any of the dev-blogs, only waiting for the final product. I personal think they will not be amused.

[Afwastus]

Communication being a two way street, it is incumbent on the listener as much as the speaker to ensure that efficient passage of information has transpired.

 

Naturally, but that becomes very hard for the listener to do when the speaker seems disinclined to ensure that he/she is being clearly understood.

 

Of course, perhaps the players should have hunted the developers down in the Russian forum and badgered them with questions and then hired a translator to make sure there was no errors in communication, but one would expect that as we are dealing with a professional, commercial entity would have the resources to do that rather than leaving it up to us, the players.

Edited October 7, 2014 by Afwastus

[flyingjulez]

Jason, what are you talking about? You don't have to rewrite the whole game engine.

 

Leave the unlocks for SP (no problem with that) BUT wipe out the requirement to play SP in order to have mods unlocked in MP.

 

Or ... leave it the way it is but don't cry when people leave the sinking ship.

 

The solution to the whole issue is so simple it's hard to believe you guys want to stick to this nonsense no matter what.

Edited October 7, 2014 by subzero

[Madov]

I personal never thought the Unlock System will affect multiplayer, so it's my fault to be so silly. The most people i know, which get early access, spend their money to support the genre, they never read any of the dev-blogs, only waiting for the final product. I personal think they will not be amused.

 

 

Not silly, perhaps short sighted. It has been exemplary how this project has kept communication up to this high standard and quite unique. Who would have guessed that by following their blogs we would in fact arrive at where we are today - it's all there? Bit like Mein Kampf perhaps in that few people really read it deeply enough at the time to fully comprehend the nature of the beast.

Edited October 7, 2014 by MADOV

[Madov]

Naturally, but that becomes very hard for the listener to do when the speaker seems disinclined to ensure that he/she is being clearly understood.

 

Of course, perhaps the players should have hunted the developers down in the Russian forum and badgered them with questions and then hired a translator to make sure there was no errors in communication, but I sort of hoped an actual company would have the resources to do that rather than leaving it up to us, the players.

 

Labouring under one's sense of entitlement is an indulgence I don't much care for. 777 put it out there and some have not heard well. I hardly imagine that they do have the inclination or the funds to constantly double check on the community's understanding of every detail. The law may be written in lawyer speak but the burden of it's ignorance is borne by the unenlightened.

Edited October 7, 2014 by MADOV

[falstaff]

MADOV said:

 

Bit like Mein Kampf perhaps in that few people really read it deeply enough at the time to fully comprehend the nature of the beast.

 

 

Please keep this sort of nonsense off the forum, and this thread in particular. A very silly comment, and in tremendously bad taste (whether ironic or not).

 

What next - 'Hitler's Hidden Work With Orphanages'? ...'Stalin's Unknown Sponsorship Of The Peloton'?

 

Whether people have a legitimate sense of grievance is not up to any one person in particular...the fact is, they have it. Slapping high condescension on everything does not help.

Edited October 7, 2014 by falstaff

[unreasonable]

Look around...You must have a special cognisance about you, and I am envious. Do you think this sort of community reaction would have been a thing if it was clear?

 

 

Not addressed to me, but anyway....Yes.  Just as I expect there will be a huge outcry when the release version is issued with only graphical presets despite this having been flagged up on several occasions.

Maybe they will change their mind on this (I hope so, it is a dumb decision as I see it) but there will for sure be a new swell of outrage if they do not.  Because we hear what we want to hear, especially when we are emotionally involved.

[AbortedMan]

Communication being a two way street, it is incumbent on the listener as much as the speaker to ensure that efficient passage of information has transpired.

Still missing the point. People didn't know regardless.

[Madov]

It's the responsibility of the one delivering the message to ensure they deliver it in such a way that it can't be misinterpreted or that vital details aren't omitted.

 

Of course, if after taking precautions to ensure your message isn't 'lost in translation', people still misconstrue things then, perhaps you can blame the recipient.

 

 

Disagree totally. Every day life teaches us that misinterpretation is regular as clockwork, as it is a human trait. Given that, the onus falls on both parties to ensure clarity.

[DD_bongodriver]

there is more than a simple breakdown in comms on behalf of the listener when it's almost a unanimous event.

[DD_bongodriver]

Oh Tree_UK! why have you forsaken us? why did you not let us know what will be?

[Feathered_IV]

I suspect many people read and understood the news about the unlocks and campaign well ahead of time, but assumed such an ill-conceived arrangement would not make it to release.

I know I did.

[DD_bongodriver]

I suspect many people read and understood the news about the unlocks and campaign well ahead of time, but assumed such an ill-conceived arrangement would not make it to release.

I know I did.

 

Yep, one of the many victims of the Utopia vibe, they could have shouted plans to murder us in our sleep but the herd would have elated in a frenzy of +1's.

[DD_Crash]

It seems to me like when David Braben was trying to get Elite published. The publishers insisted that a computer game HAD to have 3 lives and different levels. I wouldnt be surprised if 1C had "insisted" on having unlocks as "thats what computer games have"

[Feathered_IV]

...elated in a frenzy of +1's.

 

I really like that.  Very poetic. 

[DD_bongodriver]

I really like that.  Very poetic. 

 

I got nothing on Falstaff.....he's an omnibus

[Feathered_IV]

You mean, you can ride him on the way to work?

[DD_bongodriver]

apparently

[unreasonable]

I suspect many people read and understood the news about the unlocks and campaign well ahead of time, but assumed such an ill-conceived arrangement would not make it to release.

I know I did.

 

This.  Add the compulsory graphics presets and no custom difficulties in campaign mode, no unique wingman skins....... I actually took them at their word and was critical, and took a certain amount of stick from some of the people who are complaining loudly now. 

[novicebutdeadly]

Dear developers,

 

 

Firstly, you guys have done some great work getting the title to where it is today.

 

 

Unfortunately I have say the dreaded "but",

 

It seems that those who wish to have a historical experience, are less than happy (some people have posted several suggestions on how to better do things),

 

Those that don't care too much about the historical experience, are also less than happy (again people have posted suggestion on how to better do things)

 

So as it stands, you have made a great game that isn't making anyone happy.

 

I understand you are in this for the long term, which is a great thing

However if no-one playing the game is actually happy, as much as it pains for me to tell you this (as you have worked hard, turning your dream into a reality), but this game has no future.

Why not have the long term goal of being similar to il2 1946, that is in time more campaigns/ planes (which ever people are more interested in) will come out, and having some different ways of doing things which gives it a unique experience.


I understand you want to attract the younger crowd, but from my observations of the "younger generation" nothing I have seen so far from this title will attract someone new to this genre, at most it will attract a few disenchanted WT players.


Please listen to the founders, and take on board what is said, because like you, we want the game to be a success.



~S~

Novice

 

Edited October 7, 2014 by novicebutdeadly

[Zoring]

This can't be the same company that produced ROF right? We didn't have any of this nonsense there, can we assume this is the work of 1C Studio? I don't want to think it's the company that gave me 4+ years of fun with ROF.

 

If it isn't I hope 777 can get there hands on the reins and put back some of the options we had in their previous sim.

[Nankeen]

1.41 GB update, that was fast!  (from the Devs)

[unreasonable]

1.41 GB update, that was fast!  (from the Devs)

 

I do not think you have seen what was in it yet.....

[150GCT_Veltro]

For my opinion, the unlock system for Premium customers is totally a nosense. We are, or we are not Premium. Period.

 

Second, why we have to be forced to play singleplayer when, since RoF, we say we don't care about it?

 

Third, we need a compromise i think.

 

- unlock only for singleplayer?

 

- unlock working also in multiplayer? (probably the best solution)

 

- campaign also online? (probably is not possible)

[falstaff]

Exactly, a workable solution, which means compromise in certain aspects....

 

No-one has said the sky is falling, it's just very over-cast....

 

(omnibus calling....taxi calling...mickey-take...whoosh...bingo...bongo...never mind...)

[Dakpilot]

I  am surprised by the amount of people who are surprised by the idea of unlocks and the way they have been implemented, perhaps the main fault of the Dev's is assuming people who seem to be passionate and interested in this release would keep themselves informed by actually reading the dev updates and digesting the information..

 

The same example for instance with unlocks and multiplayer..the amount of people complaining repeatedly that MP will be ruined because you will have to "grind" for hours to get bombs in bombers..do these people even play the game? a complaint repeated everywhere until it becomes lore

 

Sp players are not much better either at comprehension, the "missing" Custom setting  is pretty much covered with options that can be toggled on or off during a mission..a much better and flexible system, as an inexperienced  pilot you can fly in normal with all helpers turned off but if you get lost or find it too hard you can get help and complete a mission instead of getting frustrated and having to re-start at an easier level.

 

Perhaps there is a communication problem, and, it is probably half to do with the language barrier, the Dev's need to spoon feed information repeatedly until it is certain it is understood  

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[FlatSpinMan]

Everyone calm down a bit,please.

Don't attack each other. Don't attack Jason and the dev team.

Keep comments civil.

like it or don't like it,either way give the Devs time, and keep the tone calm and reasoned.

[IckyATLAS]

The team is reactive and it is an excellent sign. During this last month finish at high speed before putting it on the store I hope that we get regular fixes.

But frankly I hope that at this very moment the dev team does not loose too much time in fixing the correct gauge display say for the "temperature of cylinder number 4" or something similar I hope I made my point. This can come in future patches.

 

The success of the game on the store will be on the immersiveness of the campaign and all what happens around. I think it is much more important to polish things like:

 

-Correct flying of the squadron mates and reaction to commands

-Animations on the airfields. Taxiing airplanes, refuelling trucks, bomb loading trucks etc. etc.

-Animation of troops on the ground. Where are the tank, trucks etc.. The countryside is empty apart from two trains three guns and 5 trucks. There should be battles raging on the ground.

-Both sides Russians and Germans had an incredible amount of material over there.

-Ground support operations should be in help of tank battalions, troops etc...

- Large number of airplanes in the air at certain moments. Like 50 bombers or more in one shot.

 

You have one month (this deadline was set not by us, personally  I would be happy to wait another 3/4 months to get those things) and so you have to prioritize I suppose.

 

For me the points mentioned above should be the full priority now.

Edited October 7, 2014 by IckyATLAS

[Aracno]

 Now that current progress will probably be wiped and time acceleration is down to x2 I'm happy to skip the SP component altogether until it's more fleshed out and use the aircraft as they are in MP because playing SP is not worth the time investment even with the unlocks. These aircraft in BoS all have enough firepower to kill something in one burst, so I look at them in the same vein as Rise of Flight mods. Nice to have, but not necessary, so I'll go without them until a later point if SP is improved. 

 

 

 

Be careful with what you say.

Knowing how they react to what they read I suspect in the next patch they will erase guns and cannons, instead you will be provided of two slingshot, so they can force us to unlock gun in SP campaign  .

Edited October 7, 2014 by Aracno

[Zak]

This can't be the same company that produced ROF right? We didn't have any of this nonsense there, can we assume this is the work of 1C Studio? I don't want to think it's the company that gave me 4+ years of fun with ROF.

If it isn't I hope 777 can get there hands on the reins and put back some of the options we had in their previous sim.

Well. in fact it is pretty much the same team that made ROF. And every decision that was made within game design of this project was dictated by the understanding that some of previously made mistakes must not repeat here and now. By mistakes I mean features which have never been adequately appreciated and asked for in ROF. This time we're more close to reality and we estimate our possibilities better.

[mb339pan]

you want to kill the game even before it comes out with your ideas?

unlike RoF alternatives are out there, be careful that the Russian cast iron will also be very hard but it is also very brittle

 

dev, you're playing with fire ...

Edited October 7, 2014 by SYN_Haashashin
as FSM said, just calm down.

[Zak]

These aircraft in BoS all have enough firepower to kill something in one burst

Yes.

And how can these unlocks be such a hot topic, folks? You hate them or you can't play without them?