Developer Diary, Part 81

[Trooper117]

As stated, I'm playing through the unlock system as there is no other way forward at the moment. Am I enjoying the campaign? I'm sorry guys, but I have to be truthful and say no...

I have no feeling of immersion. I'm simply skipping from one mission to another without any connection to my fellow pilots, or any sense of achievements that my missions are connected or having an impact on the terrible war I'm supposed to be fighting.

Even in the old IL2, the SP campaign gave me the feeling I was involved and having an effect.

But not to be downhearted, I also realise that I'm 'testing' a campaign format before formal release, so again, the actual campaign in the finished article may be different from what we are playing now

If not, I can only hope that there will be talented people who can put together user campaigns from the ME when it is released. As one who enjoyed making missions with the old IL2 FMB, I look forward to this aspect in the final game release... happy flying all!

[BigDally]

I for one thoroughly enjoyed playing the campaign this weekend as a LA5 pilot.  I also think the unlock system is another great incentive to experience the SP campaign.  Not only did I learn some history in regards to the Stalingrad battles, but also I couldn't help but feel as if my missions were "making a difference" in regards to the progression of the war.  While I know as early access testers some of us may have been spoiled during the testing of the unlocked skins/guns etc (I know I missed my white skins and special ammo at first), I for one agree with how the game is structured thus far and am anticipating the release even more so because of it.

[SYN_Mike77]

I too was dead set against the unlock system for MP. But after digging into it and discovering (as Dakpilot notes above) that it really has little impact on mp and doing a little offline flying, it's not so bad afterall. You are really only unlocking the extra bits that while nice, don't make or break the game. This is a lot of whining over very little substance.

[Zak]

Pilots!

 

We know that due to a temporary bug some skins and also VYa cannons for IL-2 may be unavailable to you. We're working to fix this now.

Please, let us know what specifically is not present on your profile and post what it is: VYa or skins - IN THIS SPECIAL THREAD.

No comments and explanations required, just the item name (names). Thanks for understanding.

[Trooper117]

It's nice to see someone with another perspective

But for me, as an old time simmer for many years now, I'm probably spoilt because of what I had experienced before with the old IL2 community.

I've been grinding on with the unlocks, but by the very nature of the system I can't say I'm enjoying it much.

I have a 'rose tinted' perspective on how I would love to see things pan out into the old type community we once had I suppose, and this 'unlock to win mentality' doesn't sit well with me. However, I'm bashing on with it.

The final product is what in the long run will sway me one way or another to keep with the project

[Anw.StG2_Tyke]

I too was dead set against the unlock system for MP. But after digging into it and discovering (as Dakpilot notes above) that it really has little impact on mp and doing a little offline flying, it's not so bad afterall. You are really only unlocking the extra bits that while nice, don't make or break the game. This is a lot of whining over very little substance.

No its not, its a lot of criticism about a stupidly designed approach.

 

Is rewarding wrong? No, are Unlocks a way to reward? Yes! Is it horrible wrong to use field modifications which were aviable to every pilot as unlocks? Yes it is!

Now we have this unlock system and it has no challenge at all in it. Its just time consuming. This makes the whole system redundant.

I introduce a system, which should reward the player and drag him into further playing the game, but the amount of work/skill he has to use for those rewards is equal to zero. This is just a bad design approach.

 

You have to reward the players when they did something good, hard and special. Its just plain stupid to treat the players like they were 12 year old children. This is would be the same, like when you say to your 12 year old son: Yeah good boy, here have a lollipop when he achieved to go to the toilett.

 

When you want to drag people into playing something, then you have to reward them just when they did something which was hard. You have to give them the feel, that they are important and not stupid. And this is the problem with the actual unlock system and the campaign.

[Afwastus]

I too was dead set against the unlock system for MP. But after digging into it and discovering (as Dakpilot notes above) that it really has little impact on mp and doing a little offline flying, it's not so bad afterall. You are really only unlocking the extra bits that while nice, don't make or break the game. This is a lot of whining over very little substance.

 

I have to ask though, what is the verdict on a feature when the 2nd most common response beyond complaints is "it's not so bad" rather than "I like it, it's fun, it makes the game better, etc." ?

 

Is that what's supposed to save the genre and this game? A feature many of us can at best describe as "well, it's only slightly annoying" and at worst as "it's ruining my enjoyment of the game"?

 

I mean this may be me personally, but if the general feedback I get for something I spend months working on is "it's not so/too bad" then I would be pretty worried.

Edited October 6, 2014 by Afwastus

[M4rgaux]

Not so bad...

Save the genre...

 

The things we read... 

 

Honestly, I think that the true problem here is the snow, there's so much snow that people get depressed and complain for every little things that differ from there dream game. Had the battle of Stalingrad been fought in summer, or Stalingrad been in the pacific, we would have much less complains...

[Marauder]

Will control and view settings work as they should in the new version? Has functionality improved?

[Afwastus]

The things we read... 

 

I'm just paraphrasing the developers, after all unlocks are needed to bring in the mainstream gamers who will save the flight sim genre, given the discussion about flight sim vs. game that had raged previous to this patch I thought it was an obvious reference.  

Edited October 6, 2014 by Afwastus

[DD_bongodriver]

Oculus rift will save the flight sim genre.

[M4rgaux]

No, summer will =P

Edited October 6, 2014 by M4rgaux

[Anw.StG2_Tyke]

Oculus rift will save the flight sim genre.

This post is one of the bests I've ever read, so full of sarcasm and everything, god bless you bongodriver!

[Afwastus]

I actually think he is being serious.

 

Compared to unlocks and XP, Oculus Rift could actually bring mainstream gamers to flight sims. All you have to do is get someone to sit down and use it and most likely they will be blown away, flight sims are after all very visual and something like OR would be ridiculously immersive and fun even for the "average" person.

Edited October 6, 2014 by Afwastus

[Dakpilot]

oculus 4K $$

 

2 x GTX980 $$$$

 

Full Hotas $$

 

mainstream....not 

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[Afwastus]

A couple of planes $$

 

mainstream...not

Edited October 6, 2014 by Afwastus

[Dakpilot]

A couple of planes $$

 

mainstream...not

 

A couple of beers and two pizzas...a couple of planes...come on, a graphics card to run 4k+ oculus will be $800+

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[Afwastus]

That's true, but the price difference doesn't make one more mainstream than the other.

 

Unless I've missed the AAA games that provide one or two vehicles to players for the $50+?

 

More importantly, when was mainstream only about price? People will buy iPhones for hundreds of dollars, yet they are considered incredibly mainstream.

 

Let's look at a definition:

Mainstream: a prevailing current or direction of activity or influence

Edited October 6, 2014 by Afwastus

[EG14_Attila]

In my opinion there is just one little thing the devs have to change:

Let the unlockthing be in SP, but change it back in MP!

So the singleplayers can unlock their skins, weapons, fieldmods etc. and onlineplayers (like me) can play with the same mods, without using time to unlock (as a father of 2 kids I have not that much time to play games and if there is time I really don't like it to waist my time with SP campaigns).

[DD_bongodriver]

oculus 4K $$

 

2 x GTX980 $$$$

 

Full Hotas $$

 

mainstream....not 

 

Cheers Dakpilot

 

You're funny, if only you understood.

 

Flight simulation.......mainstream?...........NOT

 

HOTAS?..........will become mainstream because of oculus.

 

2XGTX980?........if you like, but when the final hardware is released and developers have worked on implementation for the last couple of years it will be better optimised.

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

In my opinion there is just one little thing the devs have to change:

Let the unlockthing be in SP, but change it back in MP!

So the singleplayers can unlock their skins, weapons, fieldmods etc. and onlineplayers (like me) can play with the same mods, without using time to unlock (as a father of 2 kids I have not that much time to play games and if there is time I really don't like it to waist my time with SP campaigns).

As someone who prefer singleplayer and cooperative modes, the unlocks are still an obnoxious thing. Those who are interested in such modes aren't getting much out of unlocks. We'd play it, regardless. The unlocks serve only as a pat on the back that's, largely, not a necessity for play. We're going to play, period.

[Trooper117]

In my opinion there is just one little thing the devs have to change:

Let the unlockthing be in SP, but change it back in MP!

So the singleplayers can unlock their skins, weapons, fieldmods etc. and onlineplayers (like me) can play with the same mods, without using time to unlock (as a father of 2 kids I have not that much time to play games and if there is time I really don't like it to waist my time with SP campaigns).

 

Please stop this... do you think all SP guys 'want' to grind and unlock field mods, weapons and skins??????

I'm going along with all of this because that is what is required at this moment in time and state of development.

There is absolutely no immersion factor in the process, and for me, it is just a process... I mean, unlocking a default skin??????

[Anw.StG2_Tyke]

I actually think he is being serious.

 

Compared to unlocks and XP, Oculus Rift could actually bring mainstream gamers to flight sims. All you have to do is get someone to sit down and use it and most likely they will be blown away, flight sims are after all very visual and something like OR would be ridiculously immersive and fun even for the "average" person.

I don't think that OR will bring a second spring to Flight simulations, because this thing doesn't change what 99% of mainstreamers don't like about Flight Simulations! Thats just simple logic, its nice to have this thing and everything but mainstreamers don't tend to invest a lot of money into one game. Look how the Joystick got away out of the PC-Rooms and every other controller! Mainstreamers are used to Mouse, Keyboard and the Joypad. This won't change because of OR. And OR won't change anything in the Flight Simulation genre in aspect of the things mainstreamers don't like. They have to invest money in it, they have to invest a lot of time in it, the learning curve is pretty hard, its not instant fun but somewhat timeconsuming. The Simulationgenre won't have such a nice buff with OR than the other current mainstream genres. I expect that MMORPG's/RPG's and FPS will feel a big impact of OR. Maybe the good old RTS genre too, but the Simulation genre will stay in its nieche simply because you need a lot of extra gear and it is not so easy fun to provide.

[354thFG_Leifr]

It's easy to forget how much money folk will spend on a new console, with peripherals, and a whole array of new games over the following two to three years until next release.

PC Master Race aren't the only ones to blow money on electronics, in fact I think console gamers are largely comparable.

[SYN_Bandy]

Please stop this... There is absolutely no immersion factor in the process, and for me, it is just a process...

 

This is what needs to be thought about this controversy.  Unlocks come from the free-to-play games where they need players hooked in order to generate revenue by selling premium accounts (to grind faster) and advertising.

 

We have already paid for BoS.  Grinding has no ultimate purpose here, and seems to only be making customers very upset.  You will not attract more people to BoS because you make them grind, in fact the very opposite is happening.

 

The developers would be better off implimenting a rank advancement where pilots move up based on achievement, gain privileged position in the flight (no one wants to be arse-end Charlie), and eventually you can lead flights, then ability to choose pilots in the flight, choose missions, etc. etc.   At one point of advancement you get the new aircraft before anyone else, maybe a special personal skin at ace status, etc...

 

Wait!  We have most of that in RoF beta career already...

Edited October 6, 2014 by SYN_Bandy

[dburne]

 

We have already paid for BoS.  Grinding has no ultimate purpose here, and seems to only be making customers very upset.  You will not attract more people to BoS because you make them grind, in fact the very opposite is happening.

 

The developers would be better off implimenting a rank advancement where pilots move up based on achievement gain privileged position in the flight (no one wants to be arse-end Charlie) and eventually you can lead flights, then ability to choose pilots in the flight, etc. etc.   Maybe they get the new aircraft before anyone else, maybe a special personal skin at ace status, etc...

 

 

 

Agree 100% ( and I am a single player).

[Guims]

Iwill uninstall the game with pleasure the first time since I have it. Awsome news! Thanks forthe huge quality work.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

ever asked a teen about the appeal of piston engine dogfighting? 

 

why did cod switch from ww2 FPS to modern warfare? Any idea?

Mostly because the market was saturated with WWII fps. I believe there will be a return to them at some point. There are also only so many iterations of the M4 rifle to be had as well.  The market is now saturated with modern FPS and a return to a (mostly) good vs evil arena will do well again. There is plenty to be had in a modern version of an old genre.

[Blitzen]

You know it was kinda fun getting this & I think better times are ahead ( CloD pulled out of a nose dive thanks to ATAG...) Early days...

 

The worst issue I've faced since Friday is not being able to turn this thread off...My email mailbox has been flooded ...overwhelmed by hundreds of letters pro7 con & all saying about the same things over 7 over...I hope we get news from the good folks at 777 and maybe this zombie thread will die!

[Zak]

UPDATED: we've deployed un update to the master server recently. It's supposed to fix the skin issue described above. Please, check the game (after a restart if necessary) and tell us in the same thread if the problem is actually solved.

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/11323-campaign-skins-vya-cannon-unavailability/

[zippyPerrserker]

This is what needs to be thought about this controversy.  Unlocks come from the free-to-play games where they need players hooked in order to generate revenue by selling premium accounts (to grind faster) and advertising.

 

We have already paid for BoS.  Grinding has no ultimate purpose here, and seems to only be making customers very upset.  You will not attract more people to BoS because you make them grind, in fact the very opposite is happening.

 

The developers would be better off implimenting a rank advancement where pilots move up based on achievement, gain privileged position in the flight (no one wants to be arse-end Charlie), and eventually you can lead flights, then ability to choose pilots in the flight, choose missions, etc. etc.   At one point of advancement you get the new aircraft before anyone else, maybe a special personal skin at ace status, etc...

 

Wait!  We have most of that in RoF beta career already...

 

+1

[Urra]

Agree 100% ( and I am a single player).

Agree also.

[89-]

This is what needs to be thought about this controversy.  Unlocks come from the free-to-play games where they need players hooked in order to generate revenue by selling premium accounts (to grind faster) and advertising.

Psst... Gran Turismo! Nothing wrong with unlocks if they are not the main reason to play the campaign, ie if he campaign is good enough to draw player in anyway.

[SineTimore]

After a lot of patience, a lot of new installations, a lot of new setting up of my joystick - honestly I've had it.

I do like to fly my German machine with my settings, my weapons, my features - and I can't.

Why do I have to take a Russian aircraft in the campaign I do not know anything about?

 

I did payed a lot of money. I had, till a few minutes ago, quite a few features which are totally gone....   

 

After all this very long time, uncomplaining - I'm honestly thinking about getting rid of this "game".

 

  That's how I feel right now!

 

Sine Timore

[Saurer]

After a lot of patience, a lot of new installations, a lot of new setting up of my joystick - honestly I've had it.

I do like to fly my German machine with my settings, my weapons, my features - and I can't.

Why do I have to take a Russian aircraft in the campaign I do not know anything about?

 

I did payed a lot of money. I had, till a few minutes ago, quite a few features which are totally gone.... 

 

After all this very long time, uncomplaining - I'm honestly thinking about getting rid of this "game".

 

  That's how I feel right now!

 

Sine Timore

 

Flying a Lagg for 3 Tutorial Missions  is really a problem for you? Takes about 10 Minutes and you dont have to do it fly it ever again

Edited October 6, 2014 by Saurer

[[TWB]80hd]

After a lot of patience, a lot of new installations, a lot of new setting up of my joystick - honestly I've had it.

I do like to fly my German machine with my settings, my weapons, my features - and I can't.

Why do I have to take a Russian aircraft in the campaign I do not know anything about?

 

I did payed a lot of money. I had, till a few minutes ago, quite a few features which are totally gone.... 

 

After all this very long time, uncomplaining - I'm honestly thinking about getting rid of this "game".

 

  That's how I feel right now!

 

Sine Timore

 

Like others have said, it's just for a couple of missions.  If it makes you feel any better, your last training mission you HAVE to fly a 109, and that pisses off some hard-core Russian pilots too.

 

If you take a step back and embrace not only the history of sitting in the cockpit of a Lagg 3, but also the benefit of the old adage "Know thy enemy", flying the lakirovannie garantirovanny grob is actually a boon.

Edited October 6, 2014 by [TWB]80hd

[Afwastus]

This is what needs to be thought about this controversy.  Unlocks come from the free-to-play games where they need players hooked in order to generate revenue by selling premium accounts (to grind faster) and advertising.

 

We have already paid for BoS.  Grinding has no ultimate purpose here, and seems to only be making customers very upset.  You will not attract more people to BoS because you make them grind, in fact the very opposite is happening.

 

 

+1

 

Great post and it points out one of the major problems with the current unlock system. It's inherently a system that works best when you are operating a free-to-play game.

Edited October 6, 2014 by Afwastus

[Voidhunger]

downloading 1.4 gb update. is this the master server hotfix?

[Zak]

The change log for today's update is as follows:

- fixed the bug with skins unavailability;
- impossibility to finish tutorial and start the campaign was fixed;
- video cutscenes were converted to Bink to avoid stutters;
- autopilot feature was turned off for campaign mode;
- it's now possible to speed up time for x2 only;
- some corrections were made to the He 111 physical model;
- aim helper added in Normal difficulty (RCTRL+i to disable it);
- incorrectly low resolution at first start of the game via Steam was fixed

[Voidhunger]

with the kid i dont have time to play without 16x speed

 

and without autopilot its definetely only qmb now

Edited October 6, 2014 by Voidhunger