Developer Diary, Part 81

[AbortedMan]

No actually it was not I, but you who accused me of twisting your arm in public. Actually it wasn't even your comments that went over the line and you are not listening to what I have said you'd rather attack me. And all our conversation was in private until you made it public in the other thread. I am simply defending myself. I appreciate the effort you and other made to help make a cool BOS server. You can still do that if you wish, I'm just not going to be paying for it. That's it. The end.

 

Other servers will eventually fill the void if Eagle's Nest never re-appears.

 

Jason

Please reference my post history:http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/index.php?app=core&module=search&do=user_activity&mid=1342

 

There are no attacks directed to you or accusations of "arm twisting". If you understood it that way, please read them again and accept my apology in making it easy to construe it that way. If I was not the proprietor of the comments that garnered all of this...then why did I receive your ultimatum? I'm a bit confused here.

 

Please stop speaking in hyperbole in regards to me making our discussion public. You know that's not what happened, and this would be a very different issue if it was made public.

[unreasonable]

Boys, boys, please take it outside, this is unseemly and embarrassing!

 

On a lighter note, if we really want to catch the younger crowd, there is an alternative method:

 

[Voidhunger]

Ok I think everyone are nervous due to the unknown ..  I think the Campaign is actually very well and cool to have, for anyone that want to fly offline. So lets it be clear.. Campaign is great !!  no doubt but the problem that is occurring is actually just the fact to unlocking for Multiplaying..  here easy fix..

 

what need to be done:

-Online and OFFline should be separate ( will make campaign and Online able to grow )

-Textures of snows need to be dirtier at battle scenes and Airfields.

-FM tweak CG while landing ( a minimum ) ( Russian aircraft  to my knowledge)

-other tweak there and there ( Joystick range and maybe like RoF aircraft have their own controls set to be adjusted )

 

So briefly it's not alarming when you see it that way. ..There are some great things into BoS imo .. now need to convince the Devs to really separate the OFFline and ONline.. and the Sim will be a success of-course adding a better easier mission editor and SDK (tools ) would be fantastic for the grows of the sim and community.  Comon Jason I faith on you  

No campaign is faaaar from great. Whole camapaign is like tutorial for WT kids. Campaign without medals, logbook, historical units etc is a joke.

 

and this gave me a lesson to carefully read statestment from the developers and to not to preorder games .It was my last preordered game.

Edited October 5, 2014 by Voidhunger

[Bulldoguk]

IC1/777 studios describe BOS as a flight game on the main site not a filght sim  in the same way WT is described as a flight game. Dose this tell us something ??

[GOZR]

LOL.. 

Voidhunger no I will not fly the campaign and refuse to be force to do so!.. but having a campaign for Offline people is great!.. this is what I meant. pretty much making everyone Happy on having the choice but yes I do agree that the campaign should be made very carefully to whom it may be aimed.

Edited October 5, 2014 by GOZR

[..Slackjaw63]

I've just spent hours uninstalling the game, going through the re-boot and downloading the updated game client from my profile and running the installer. No joy ! I keep getting told that I am not connected to the server and that I should check my internet connection; my connection is fine. I did briefly get chance to play the game last night but I found that the LA5 and FW190 which I had been flying for the last few weeks have now disappeared and I will have to buy them. Bit disappointed actually. I am hoping that the buggy feel to it and the fact that i can't even get onto the game right now are going to be ironed out soon; maybe it's because so many people are trying to do the same as me at the same time. GGGRRrrrrrrrrrr!

 

 

Rant over !

[FG28Kodiak]

A campaign for multiplayer (coop) would also be great. But ...

[GOZR]

All this can be fix so easily.. Just have to make the right decisions.

 

This is not even about aircraft or any other problems that there are.. Give the members, buyers, people have the choice not forcing them. Than everything should be built on it. It is almost like its been reversed. 

[Unformer]

Dear all,

 

Let me bring some more arguments that this is not the end of the world as many of you here describe the situation. :-))

 

1) As much as what me concerns, I fly in Multiplayer always the same plane. In Quick missions I fly only other planes to get more experiences about their weaknesses and then how to kill them best in Multiplayer by my perferred machine (Bf109).

 

My personal expression is that many of you follow the same procedure, e.g. almost everybody play on the side of the USSR perferably....  the Yak. 

 

As a consequence certainly you will fly in the SP campaign only your preferred plane and let the other planes be ..... then there is really not so much work to be done.

 

2) And secondly, please, play (fly) this part of the campaign as a sign of respect and honour to all the great work the developers have achieved.

 

With these thoughts in mind - from a +50 of age one - we should stop complaining and go back to our beloved hobby.

 

 

Regards

Unformer

[IRRE_Belmont]

Dear all,

 

Let me bring some more arguments that this is not the end of the world as many of you here describe the situation. :-))

 

1) As much as what me concerns, I fly in Multiplayer always the same plane. In Quick missions I fly only other planes to get more experiences about their weaknesses and then how to kill them best in Multiplayer by my perferred machine (Bf109).

 

My personal expression is that many of you follow the same procedure, e.g. almost everybody play on the side of the USSR perferably....  the Yak. 

 

As a consequence certainly you will fly in the SP campaign only your preferred plane and let the other planes be ..... then there is really not so much work to be done.

 

2) And secondly, please, play (fly) this part of the campaign as a sign of respect and honour to all the great work the developers have achieved.

 

With these thoughts in mind - from a +50 of age one - we should stop complaining and go back to our beloved hobby.

 

 

Regards

Unformer

I'm playing campaign to have fun, not to ''pay respects''

 

It is not a fricking budhist temple

[216th_Peterla]

Just did a bomber escort in the Lagg. Excellent mission. Missed the drop as the lead pe2 was about to get boomed by a 109. Everything behaved as it should. Great immersion. Unlocked some bombs for ground attack. Sweet! Single player looks great. (Can't wait for potential coop.)

 

Looking at the way the unlock system is structured though it struck me - MP players don't actually need to unlock anything at all. If you stick to the role each plane was designed for, the base load outs are perfectly fine. Even so, I managed to unlock some stuff just while tuning/testing my HOTAS/pedals/trackir. The big advantage of SP is you can pause to fiddle with stuff like that. For the MP folk who don't want to play SP at all, I don't know why they don't ignore it completely. They can just celebrate the improved frame rates that also turned up for many people today.

 

The advantage of the SP campaign is that it is a development vehicle for the tools which will later be used for the design of MP missions by the community. It has to be secure, robust and flexible enough to ensure everyone is playing without exploits and the missions can be complex, varied and interesting enough to sustain the life of the sim. All the elements I've seen so far contribute to this, and today BoS took a great leap towards being a structured gaming platform with more longevity than a mere death match arena with good physics. Sandboxes and arenas are dime a dozen on steam, but BoS is showing itself to be a serious platform.

 

As someone who predominantly plays MP, I have quickly fallen in love with the campaign. The quality of players on MP servers varies, and there have been plenty of times when I have logged off due to poor sportsmanship, poor RP, imbalances, etc. The quality of AI doesn't compare favourably to good MP players, but it is certainly preferable to bad ones. At least it mostly stays on mission, and has skills somewhat consistent with real pilots. Do we really imagine that playing against human opponents who have the advantage of never dying while they skill up to ace level represents reality?

 

What I am really looking forward to is when we see greater integration between MP and AI (hopefully in coop.) When this develops the battlefield will start to feel truly populated and as if we are immersed in an ongoing war. I have seen the start of this some of the MP missions which are beginning to develop. Stalingrad is big - far too big to populate with MP players alone and create a truly immersive experience. Seeing some of the tricks the campaign system is bringing to the table gives me hope that we will see more development along these lines.

 

Hats off to the developers (and mod makers). This release is awesome.

Excellent post that defines what I think and again congratulations to the developers!

 

Another thing, just for all the criticism exposed here. I just see that some people is overreacting, just give the SP campaing a chance, the unlock system is addictive as same level as the campaign is. I'm really happy to see how the game is growing and developing. Full support to the developers.

Regards to all of you fellas.

Peterla

[Anw.StG2_Tyke]

Excellent post that defines what I think and again congratulations to the developers!

 

Another thing, just for all the criticism exposed here. I just see that some people is overreacting, just give the SP campaing a chance, the unlock system is addictive as same level as the campaign is. I'm really happy to see how the game is growing and developing. Full support to the developers.

Regards to all of you fellas.

Peterla

 

Which chance? Its simply bad! And even from a SP-Campaign point of view its bad. Its not even an campaign, those are completly independent generated missions with NO correlation to the BoS at all. Hell, only because there is a video with some informations about the Battle of Stalingrad, Flying generous missions without any and I mean ANY correlation to the War/Battle of Stalingrand its not an campaign. (Sorry got the sentence a little bit wrong).

What I expect from an campaign is a CAMPAIGN where I the Pilot is PART of the WAR and PART of the Squadron, and FEEL as a PART of the Side I CHOSE. I mean what is this XXXX? Sometimes I fly for the Luftwaffe, then I desert and fly for the VVS... this is just plain floral and not an campaign at all. Its just a number of generous quick missions with a little bit history nothing more.

Edited October 5, 2014 by Rama

[EAF19_Charlie]

Hi guys. I just flew the 1st campaign mission for the Lagg. A 4 point circuit to get that stage done, nice n' easy and took no time at all. When I tried the 2nd mission I was unable to fly it as I kept getting the "weapons mod error #10037"

 

I did not nor could not select anything as its all padlocked.

 

Any ideas please.

[flyingjulez]

I cannot understand the decision of the devs at all. It's just not common sense.

 

Why would you harm the MP crew with having to unlock mods in singleplayer? I can't think of one single advantage of this for anybody, be it developer, singleplayerguy or multiplayerguy.

 

To me this goes into the same direction as spit girl (CloD guys will remember).

 

 

Come on Zak, Loft, Jason, rest of the crew. wake up before the damage becomes irrepealable.

Edited October 5, 2014 by subzero

[Ala13_Kike]

Good job for me. Waiting for final version without stress by release date.

These SP missions are a good training for me

[Zak]

Come on Zak, Loft, Jason, rest of the crew. wake up before the damage becomes irrepealable.

Well, we're listening, just as always. But of course you don't expect us to do smth significant on the weekend, do you?

[Rothary]

Frankly, I would enjoy the campaign if the unlocks (atleast weapon mods (standard winter skins being availeable from the very beginning)) were exclusive to it. In the current state I only feel forced to do so when flying in the campaign. I'm not flying planes I don't like in it for fun. I fly them to give my QMB opponents their very standard winter camo. I'm not exactly enjoying doing so.

I did however enjoy flying the Bf109 G-2 in the campaign, unlocking everything for it. I did not enjoy flying the planes I wanted to shoot down in QMB, trying to give them their winter camo and other features.

[HagarTheHorrible]

There seems to be a lot of time spent crying instead of flying. If half as much time was spent flying instead of crying most of the unlocks would already be unlocked.

 

While I agree that it seems a little silly having to fly SP to unlock things in MP, maybe unlocks in MP should be separate and have a different criteria i.e survive and land without writing off your aircraft = choice of skin, totaling your aircraft or dying = standard depot replacement.

 

Where I differ with perceived opinion, when it comes to grind, is training for each aircraft, or at the very least different types of aircraft. For example unlocking the Stuka would require completing a tutorial on dive bombing mission followed by an untutored bombing mission. Unlocking the He 111 would require completing a tutorial mission and then a follow on mission where you need to use the bombsight, for example. The LaGG aircraft unlocks might require a ground attack mission tutorial etc with rockets. It makes sense to learn about the fundamental purpose of an aircraft and how to use it effectively. Having a basic common level of airmanship is beneficial to all, especially in multiplayer, that it might be worth forcing the grind.

 

I have no problem, either in SP or MP with unlocks as rewards for correct airmanship behavior, because it provides an incentive over and above hitting the refly button.

[Dakpilot]

My worry if exp points for unlocks are earned in MP, is that it will lead to an increase of poor behaviour (from those that are that way inclined) let alone a decrease in a historical sense of airmanship and the "illusion" of realism

 

However zero points for non return to base could improve things? It is an issue I am sure has been given some thought by Devs

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[354thFG_Leifr]

The illusion of realism is truly earned as I auto-pilot and x16 compression speed through a terrible series of QMB SP campaign to unlock a winter skin for my summer-skinned aircraft.

Edited October 5, 2014 by Leifr

[SYN_Jedders]

Think it's time to take a deep breath and have a think about where we are. There are only two types of people in relation to this game, consumers and creators. It is obvious at this late stage of development that whatever preconceived ideas that people have are either being fulfilled completely or that they fall short in some areas. Everyone's notion of success here is going to be different, it does not follow that those that shout the loudest are the most correct.

 

Jason once gave me the "build it and they will come" speech in relation to our Sqn and he was dead right.

The creators must stick to their vision and complete their projects as they see fit. The consumers must decide if they want to support it or not. This goes for server hosters just as much as game developers. Believe in what you are doing and at least when your project hits the open market it can be something you are proud of.

 

Yes, there are things we find annoying. I really don't wanna do SP over MP but I'm willing to give it a shot to get what I want. In a years time I'm not gonna look back at the few hours it took as a punishment but more as a look at something new for me. To be honest I find reinstalling my entire control set and views more irritating, but it forms part of what I signed up for, alpha and beta testing.

 

I for one am happy where we are. I have faith that the devs and server hosters are listening. Sometimes, if it is put in such a way as not to piss them off completely, they will change course to suit demand. The bottom line?...this is it folks.

 

Looking forward to the last, and hardest, 10%

Edited October 5, 2014 by SYN_Jedders

[Dakpilot]

The illusion of realism is truly earned as I auto-pilot and x16 compression speed through a terrible series of QMB SP campaign to unlock a winter skin for my summer-skinned aircraft.

 

Which is your choice,

 

but having a bunch of people trying to do the same thing on MP servers is not really something I would look forward to..

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[354thFG_Leifr]

Which is your choice,

 

but having a bunch of people trying to do the same thing on MP servers is not really something I would look forward to..

 

Cheers Dakpilot

 

Of course, the issue though is that we haven't been given the choice. It's SP or nothing.

Believe me chap, if unlocks were restricted only to the SP campaign I would probably be vocally supporting it! What we currently have seems to have been applied in the reverse order.

 

Cheers.

[Livai]

That was the deal we had a nice early access with access to all planes and loadouts. Over a whole year we flying MP and no one from us needed to unlock stuff for it. Now we reach 90% and the finial release is not more far away a unlock system locked all planes and loadouts and force MP only players to play SP to unlock the all planes and loadouts again. Dont forget the some advantage and disadvantage for MP if you not have unlocked this plane or loadout. 
 
The only big problem what makes me really mad if I see there really boring 0815 missions together with a unlock system to unlock stuff where I am forced to spend my free - time to play this to unlock all planes, loadouts and skins for my plane that I want to fly during a SP/Quick mission or MP. Even if I made a own SP mission I can not enjoy the Custom Realism Settings..................

 
And if the master server gets amnesia I can do this again. 
 
 

[Mastermariner]

For "Pete's sake" make a MP game for the MP game mob with everything available and let us flight simmer enjoy our reality sim in peace and quiet!

Master

[VRPilot]

I quote myself:

 

It's not as empty as others tell, there is action around you, but you have to look for it. I saw german tanks advancing into russian AT and stuff. But it's not like there is the 6th Army fighting and if you expect 2mio soldiers beeing around stalingrad you will be disapointed.

 

It feels like you are somewhere at the eastern front in the middle of a no-mans-land, but not at some of the fierce battles in history. 

 

The campain is the worst way to do it:

 

we could have:

 

#Hollywood block-buster action like Ace combat or H.A.W.X. with SIM difficulty (would love that!)

 

#Historic campains (DESASTERSOFT add-ons for CloD!!!)

 

#dynamic campain (FALCON 4.0 if somebody remembers this masterpiece of software)

 

but we have:

 

#random randomness

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

where to write suggestion or report bugs only about campaign?

[senseispcc]

All of you forget one thing this is all about money!

 

Are the many single players going to pay for the game because it is one made for them?

 

Are the lesser numerous multi player players going to buy this game because it is a simulation for them?

 

Is everyone going to play/buy this game because it is not perfect but nearly enough so that we are not missing it?

 

I personally think this simulation shall be for everyone single players, multi players, fans of fast fun games, great simulation perfectionist where bullets must have the right weight!

 

Now is this an instantaneous task, NO.

 

It is taking time even for us gamers to master the flight of planes so different as the He111-h6 and the Fw190-a3 or for the other side the Pe2 and the Yak-1. Are we so lazy that we cannot play and complain later when we know we are right to complain.

 

For me player it is not an easy task to adapt to this ever changing game but for the developers team it also not easy to make every hope of the gamers come true.

 

Let us take every new challenge as a challenge and master it before complaining!  

Edited October 5, 2014 by senseispcc

[BFsSmurfy]

Hi guys. I just flew the 1st campaign mission for the Lagg. A 4 point circuit to get that stage done, nice n' easy and took no time at all. When I tried the 2nd mission I was unable to fly it as I kept getting the "weapons mod error #10037"

 

I did not nor could not select anything as its all padlocked.

 

Any ideas please.

 

Known problem mate, got the same issue here, fix coming Tuesday or Thursday I believe, who thought anyone would want to land after completing mission 1!!!!!!!

[BFsSmurfy]

"I have faith that the devs and server hosters are listening."

 

Those that weren`t allowed to host a server were listening, but hey ho look what happened when one of the chosen few pissed the gaffer off, I doubt that would have happened with battle-fields but I guess 10+ years hosting the most populated servers ever counts for jack here. Smell the irony.

 

Back at Gamescom in 2013 we were told that the campaign was a major feature for Loft and he was passionate about everyone playing it, fair comment if you`ve put a lot of time and effort in. I`m a MP player myself but I have no objection to the SP campaign other than that I`m stuck at mission 1 after a botched landing which I`m sure the guys will sort out. Until that point I`m playing my guitars and chilling watching the firestorm here.

Edited October 5, 2014 by BFsSmurfy

[Trinkof]

Well, we're listening, just as always. But of course you don't expect us to do smth significant on the weekend, do you?

Good to know you listen to us Never doubted it 

 

People please relax : development of this game has been almost exemplary regarding relation between dev and founders.

 

What dev did with this update was planned since the begining, was written in Dev Blog (read again, you'll see, it is extremly clear). Not saying I like this unlock system for MP, nor the fact it can be "rushed" with 16 speed missions, but we all were aware of it.

 

To be honest, If I were on the Dev team now, I would be VERY UPSET : They planned things, announced things, people were almost silent .... and NOW that the game is almost finished, the player base wake up and ask for changes, One month before release.... seriously   

 

So : I do not like this system, I wish it to be changed, but ... This community seem to act like spoiled children sometime. 

 

To the people not happy with their investment : you should have read before ... like anyone when investing money in an unfinished product

 

 

[IRRE_Belmont]

Good to know you listen to us Never doubted it 

 

People please relax : development of this game has been almost exemplary regarding relation between dev and founders.

 

What dev did with this update was planned since the begining, was written in Dev Blog (read again, you'll see, it is extremly clear). Not saying I like this unlock system for MP, nor the fact it can be "rushed" with 16 speed missions, but we all were aware of it.

 

To be honest, If I were on the Dev team now, I would be VERY UPSET : They planned things, announced things, people were almost silent .... and NOW that the game is almost finished, the player base wake up and ask for changes, One month before release.... seriously   

 

So : I do not like this system, I wish it to be changed, but ... This community seem to act like spoiled children sometime. 

 

To the people not happy with their investment : you should have read before ... like anyone when investing money in an unfinished product

 

 

A majority a player REFUSED this unlock system, when it was first announced

[novicebutdeadly]

Gents,

I believe the community has made it's feelings known to the developers.

I think it best that WE all wait until the next patch/ full game is released before commenting further about the unlock system.

Adding more comments won't achieve anything productive, the developers know our grievances, so we must now wait.


~S~

 

Novice

[dburne]

 

What dev did with this update was planned since the begining, was written in Dev Blog (read again, you'll see, it is extremly clear). Not saying I like this unlock system for MP, nor the fact it can be "rushed" with 16 speed missions, but we all were aware of it.

 

To be honest, If I were on the Dev team now, I would be VERY UPSET : They planned things, announced things, people were almost silent

 

Umm no, not quite.

Gents,

 

I believe the community has made it's feelings known to the developers.

 

I think it best that WE all wait until the next patch/ full game is released before commenting further about the unlock system.

 

Adding more comments won't achieve anything productive, the developers know our grievances, so we must now wait.

 

 

~S~

 

Novice

 

Never heard of the squeaky wheel huh...

[flyingjulez]

Well, we're listening, just as always. But of course you don't expect us to do smth significant on the weekend, do you?

Ofcourse not. But you need to toggle that switch in your developers mind. The idea of unlocks can be interesting for singleplayer, but definately not for multiplayer.

 

I mean, how is this "play SP to get mods for MP stuff" gaining a single more customer? It's not. Instead, you are affronting many many multiplayer guys for no reason and block new people from buying your game.

 

Please, get this sorted out for player's interest and for the future of WW2 games made by you guys.

[Zak]

Ofcourse not. But you need to toggle that switch in your developers mind. The idea of unlocks can be interesting for singleplayer, but definately not for multiplayer.

Well, I sure promise to provide a wire between the forum and the switch.

 

I'm glad we're having an adequate argument here, to everyone involved in the sensible conversation - thank you for it.

[IRRE_Belmont]

Well, I sure promise to provide a wire between the forum and the switch.

 

I'm glad we're having an adequate argument here, to everyone involved in the sensible conversation - thank you for it.

Don't think we don't like the game Zak, in fact, most of us love it

That's why we are so critic about this system,

[Yakmaster]

I hope devs don't change a thing in this unlock system this late in development, i'm really curious how this experiment will work out for sim game

[Jaws2002]

Good to know you listen to us Never doubted it 

 

People please relax : development of this game has been almost exemplary regarding relation between dev and founders.

 

What dev did with this update was planned since the begining, was written in Dev Blog (read again, you'll see, it is extremly clear). Not saying I like this unlock system for MP, nor the fact it can be "rushed" with 16 speed missions, but we all were aware of it.

 

To be honest, If I were on the Dev team now, I would be VERY UPSET : They planned things, announced things, people were almost silent .... and NOW that the game is almost finished, the player base wake up and ask for changes, One month before release.... seriously   

 

 

 

To the people not happy with their investment : you should have read before ... like anyone when investing money in an unfinished product

 

 

 

You are wrong. A lot of people were voicing their opinion against  unlocks a long time  ago, it's just all this ROF fans were chasing them allover the forum and called them all kind of names. They were sure they'll get a new ROF made with WW2 planes. They were the ones not listening. Plenty people were strongly against the unlocks from the start, EDITED. You can go look at the discussions posted here a year+ ago and see how different many people see things now.

 

 

 

 

So : I do not like this system, I wish it to be changed, but ... This community seem to act like spoiled children sometime. 

 

No. We are easy to please. Take my money, give me my copy, then get out of my way.  let me play it how I want, don't try to patronize my playing time and force me to do hard labor in my playing time. I do this for my enjoyment, not to satisfy the fetishes of someone else.

 

I played ROF quite a bit and rarely bothered arguing things on the forum (except few times about Noop28 FM ). I put over $400 in ROF and was cool with it. I could simply play the game as I wanted and nobody tried to get between me and my game.

 

 

Edited October 5, 2014 by Rama

[Jaws2002]

I hope devs don't change a thing in this unlock system this late in development, i'm really curious how this experiment will work out for sim game

 

 

if it stays the way it is it will kill it. Most people buy games after they read first reviews. The flight sim fans are the ones who will buy it at release or already have it. they are the ones who will write those critical first reviews. We already know, most flight sim fans are against unlocks, at least in the way they are done now (SP only). There will be loads of bad reviews and that can scare the casual gamer, who 1C hopes to get involved.