1./KG4_Blackwolf Posted October 4, 2014 Posted October 4, 2014 Seriously guys : The unlock is not that hard ... 1 hour for unlocking ALL unlock including skins for 1 plane. Just play in expert / short mission -> for only the most "useful" one, such as bombs etC... it takes around 30 minutes. I agree I do not like to have to unlock things, but seriously, this is not a big deal at all AND : it forces you to test the campaign and give feedback to developer. Some people talk without knowing about War Thunder , about those "immature kid" want to have to have fun, like unlock (This is basically not true at all for instance, unlock in WT are very painful and long, unlike here... and they are seen as a bad side of the game) I come from War Thunder, and do not fool yourself, after the hainous and stupid posts made since the 81 dev diary on BOS ... well ... We are no better here. I might be the only one to say this , but Thank you to the team, I may not agree with every choice you made, but this is your game, and it is intense fun for me Quick question about unlocks : Wha we unlocked in early access will stay unlocked after release ? Or will there be a wipe of our progress ? You're missing the point, On line players should not have to "unlock" the weapons, planes and skins should be set by the server, date ,time and supplies available at that time for the "map" or mission up at that time. Why would it be so hard to say "ok MP is server controlled and SP can get more off line content with or without locks...hey the unlocks could be like Easter eggs, you fly a mission or two and surprise you get new stuff. Whaaat? We are way better off here. He meant the maturity and attitude dude.
BFsSmurfy Posted October 4, 2014 Posted October 4, 2014 I cant really understand all the outrage at doing the 4 tutorials...takes 5 and a half minutes to complete....used to wait longer for old IL-2 to load I WILL NOT EAT MY PEAS!!!!! even tho I know they are good for me and I don't Really hate them that much Cheers Dakpilot You`re lucky mate, I can`t do the tutorials as I made the "mistake" of landing the Lagg after the first one, well bugger me who doing the bug testing thought that no-one would try and land it ,if they had they would have realised the consequences of such a despicable act. Looks like I`m stuck until the fix comes out.
Afwastus Posted October 4, 2014 Posted October 4, 2014 (edited) Who on earth are these masses that we're all waiting for ... ? I can't wait to meet them because they're going to be an interesting bunch based on the things that must have attracted them to join us .. ?!? I for one welcome our Halo/Counter-Strike/War Thunder/World of Tanks/Angry Birds/Barbie Horse Adventure/etc. playing overlords and look forward to bathing in the no doubt endless sea of money they will bring to this game. Edited October 4, 2014 by Afwastus
dburne Posted October 4, 2014 Posted October 4, 2014 The problem here is that the devs have a whole load of died-in-the-wool, bought and paid up customers but they don't appear to matter at all because, all the development plans seem to revolve around attracting these mysterious as-yet-to-purchase masses. So, the plan now seems to be to screw the customer-we-know-about in order to try and attract the customer we think is out there, hovering over that purchase button. And they are starting to leave now as well... Sure, they got my 95 bucks already , but going forward is a whole different story... 2
Trinkof Posted October 4, 2014 Posted October 4, 2014 You're missing the point, On line players should not have to "unlock" the weapons, planes and skins should be set by the server, date ,time and supplies available at that time for the "map" or mission up at that time. Why would it be so hard to say "ok MP is server controlled and SP can get more off line content with or without locks...hey the unlocks could be like Easter eggs, you fly a mission or two and surprise you get new stuff. He meant the maturity and attitude dude. -Well I agree, it would be better if server controled, we all agree here ... but it is not and appently not planned like this, so we will have to live with it ... and this is not as bad as some people might say here; regarding the short time requiered to unlock stuff. (I admit it is a bit boring, if like me, you are no fan of solo) -Yup, pretty much what I wanted to say 2
354thFG_Leifr Posted October 4, 2014 Posted October 4, 2014 Which is a shame in itself because, up until Friday, things were looking positively up for Stalingrad. On a personal note; I have invested a large portion of my time (with others) in the creation of a RP system for a group of pilots (both established and new) on another forum. It's almost looking like that investiture will be sitting idle for some time now. Seriously guys : The unlock is not that hard ... 1 hour for unlocking ALL unlock including skins for 1 plane. Just play in expert / short mission-> for only the most "useful" one, such as bombs etC... it takes around 30 minutes.I agree I do not like to have to unlock things, but seriously, this is not a big deal at all AND : it forces you to test the campaign and give feedback to developer. Some people talk without knowing about War Thunder , about those "immature kid" want to have to have fun, like unlock (This is basically not true at all for instance, unlock in WT are very painful and long, unlike here... and they are seen as a bad side of the game) I come from War Thunder, and do not fool yourself, after the hainous and stupid posts made since the 81 dev diary on BOS ... well ... We are no better here.I might be the only one to say this , but Thank you to the team, I may not agree with every choice you made, but this is your game, and it is intense fun for me Quick question about unlocks : Wha we unlocked in early access will stay unlocked after release ? Or will there be a wipe of our progress ? But this is the very crux of the issue at hand; why bother? If the unlock system is so easy to breeze through with autopilot and 16x speed, why even bother implementing it. Must I really spend an hour of my time idling at my desk whilst the game plays itself, and unlocks itself, just to apply an attachment for MP? It's pretty laughable. It's clear that feedback given to the developers is largely ignored - this situation has been debated for months now right up until this point. And yet here we are, finding MP content (and QMB!) locked out of reach until CTRL+A is pushed, in an inconsistent and aggravating manner (summer skins in a winter map? lol). I wouldn't be quite so frustrated if this was confined only to the SP campaign, heck I may even embrace it. But it's the fact that this system has been applied to every single facet of Battle of Stalingrad, pervading so far as to reach into the QMB - something that I have never seen done before in any flight 'simulation' game before. Actually, I take that back - it happened in Microsoft Flight and that game folded in a year. We always knew that an unlock-type system would appear in Stalingrad, there's absolutely no denying that. We weren't however told just how deep and integral this system would be to the entire game. Fast forward two to three years and assume that the best part of the community is still intact; new players will have to trudge through the most basic of SP content just to activate /x/ or /y/ in the user-made custom content, in whatever theater or area of operations we find ourselves in. I simply cannot wait to even begin explaining that to friends whom I have recommended the game to. "Yeah, come join us in this server mate! Grab your BF-110, Richard will be your gunner. Oh, what's that? You haven't unlocked the aircraft yet? Guess you better go grind in SP for a few hours then." I wish I could recommend Stalingrad to folk but it's now exceptionally difficult. The actual content is solid, top-drawer aerial warfare simulation - probably the best I've felt and experienced. Frankly, it's all very disappointing in what has otherwise been a very shining example of game development. 1
Lusekofte Posted October 4, 2014 Posted October 4, 2014 The problem here is that the devs have a whole load of died-in-the-wool, bought and paid up customers but they don't appear to matter at all because, all the development plans seem to revolve around attracting these mysterious as-yet-to-purchase masses. So, the plan now seems to be to screw the customer-we-know-about in order to try and attract the customer we think is out there, hovering over that purchase button. Who on earth are these masses that we're all waiting for ... ? I can't wait to meet them because they're going to be an interesting bunch based on the things that must have attracted them to join us .. ?!? PS. All these "already informed us about" and "devs have been open about" and "we already knew" posters are deluded. Nobody really knew or imagined that the unlocks would apply to QMB and MP scenarios. I mean, as if you would do that to a large chuck of your user-base!?! Well that make sense , why not try to do that? It is one thing tho, they haven't thought about, they are about to loose a great deal of active players on this crap. The only thing selling on a online game is actually people that are online using it.
dburne Posted October 4, 2014 Posted October 4, 2014 Well that make sense , why not try to do that? It is one thing tho, they haven't thought about, they are about to loose a great deal of active players Yep, I am afraid that may be the case...
rlk281 Posted October 4, 2014 Posted October 4, 2014 E'fing brilliant! PART 81 DEVELOPPER DIARY IN BRIEF
Baldric Posted October 4, 2014 Posted October 4, 2014 Not sure why the decision was made to make SP unlocks apply to MP other than some way to prevent some of the cheese exploits used in the BF series to get unlocks. Anyway, it is what it is. I'm enjoying it and flying around trying to find bugs. Waiting for co-op MP. Fly well!
SYN_Lt_Dan Posted October 4, 2014 Posted October 4, 2014 Really ? think you should finish part one mate ATTENTIONEXCLUSIVE FOOTAGE OF BoS : THE MOVIE
1./JG42Nephris Posted October 4, 2014 Posted October 4, 2014 Well if you mention the Battlefield Series Unlocks....you can gain XP here at least in MP. Which would already be a compromise to start with in our situation. Nevertheless should be the server hoster the admin who decides what to en/disable.
kaboki Posted October 4, 2014 Posted October 4, 2014 (edited) I for one welcome our Halo/Counter-Strike/War Thunder/World of Tanks/Angry Birds/Barbie Horse Adventure/etc. playing overlords and look forward to bathing in the no doubt endless sea of money they will bring to this game. The problem with those "masses" coming into this sim is gonna be that the devs would start too try and satisfy that crowd and then the sim will evolve from a sim to just another arcade game. I can already imagine them coming into this forum and complain about that the "realistic" mode force you to actually manually adjust prop, mixture and radiators. They went ballistic when I suggested adding these things into WT on the forum and I got a long lesson why it was not necessary because most planes in WW2 had automatic systems and stuff. The day we get that crowd in this SIM is the day the SIM as we know it is doomed...Luckily some guy over there directed me to this SIM wich I had totally forgotten about and wasn't aware that it was released (he even did it on PM probably to avoid any flaming himself.) But now this SIM also starts to evolve dangerously close to WT and tries to get in that type of players, and if that playerbase grow larger than us hardcore simmers then we all know who gets the attention(Money walks, bullshit talks). XP doesn't even belong in a simulator, it's invented to satisfy casual gamers and not people who have a passion about aviation and simming. Edited October 4, 2014 by kaboki
oneeyeddog Posted October 4, 2014 Posted October 4, 2014 This is a thread started by Blacksix on july 5th 2013 that goes on for 315 posts. It seems to make the unlock system clear, so the Single Player campaign that was released yesterday should come as no surprise. This thread http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/750-developer-diary-part-xxiii/?hl=unlocks
novicebutdeadly Posted October 4, 2014 Posted October 4, 2014 I for one welcome our Halo/Counter-Strike/War Thunder/World of Tanks/Angry Birds/Barbie Horse Adventure/etc. playing overlords and look forward to bathing in the no doubt endless sea of money they will bring to this game. I honestly am wondering how this game will attract the younger new blood (which is what this genre needs), by making the game this way. The "kids" don't want to have to pay for anything, and when they do have to pay they don't expect to have to unlock items by being forced to play a Mode that they don't want (so forcing people to do the campaign will be a double edged sword, it will kill off the older people, and not attract the younger people). If the developers wish to compete with WT and whatever else is out there at the moment, they need to do it directly. That is through advertisements NOT some un-historic unlock system. Given the very funny pictures posted on here recently, I'm sure you have people on here willing to help with this, heck a few slogans like: "Ready to take off your Warthunder training wheels????" "Wanna learn how to really fly????" "Realistic flight models = real world experience" (I'm sure I could write a few more, but time does not permit)
dburne Posted October 4, 2014 Posted October 4, 2014 (edited) It makes no difference whatsoever whether it should or should not have come as a surprise, all the posts expressing displeasure in the last 24 hours, I would think speaks volumes. Edited October 4, 2014 by dburnette
354thFG_Leifr Posted October 4, 2014 Posted October 4, 2014 Just wait till we're shelling out £15.99 for an aircraft, only to have to unlock it in SP first! :lol: 2
1./JG42Nephris Posted October 4, 2014 Posted October 4, 2014 The problem with those "masses" coming into this sim... What masses? I dont expect BoS getting a wonder peak by a double of the temporary sold copies after Release. Why and where from? I guess most flight simmers are aware of the game right now and probably most of them already did their buy to get EA, as the basic reviews were fine (compareds to another flight sim release). Maybe 30% more copies (am just estimating) will be sold after Release, but where and why do you expect following "masses" of sold copies after the Release?
[TWB]80hd Posted October 4, 2014 Posted October 4, 2014 The whole "reset to level the playing field" is utter horseshit. EVERYONE in the world has equal opportunity to pay for, and play, this game RIGHT NOW. We're not some lucky bunch that got selected to be in a closed beta test. We paid money, upfront, in the HOPES that these guys would make a great game. Honestly, I am blown away by BoS... the game is amazing. I love it. But wiping unlocks that were earned is just illogical.
AbortedMan Posted October 4, 2014 Posted October 4, 2014 I just wanted to clear some things up that I've seen in the thread regarding the Eagle's Nest server...it shutting down is not a boycott or protest on anyone's part. SE members were unaware of the scrutiny involved in our opinions of the game as players on the forum (check my post history to see what I'm talking about) and it has led to its end...not by any decision of our own. I am not an employee or agent of 777/1C under any obligation to uphold any publicity or relations standards that are out of the scope of a regular rule abiding customer. By my morals, I am obligated to the gratitude for the opportunity to work on the server and thank Jason for everything he's provided. If anyone has any questions, feel free to PM me. 4
1./KG4_Blackwolf Posted October 4, 2014 Posted October 4, 2014 -Well I agree, it would be better if server controled, we all agree here ... but it is not and appently not planned like this, so we will have to live with it ... and this is not as bad as some people might say here; regarding the short time requiered to unlock stuff. (I admit it is a bit boring, if like me, you are no fan of solo) -Yup, pretty much what I wanted to say Upped your post because I agree. That said, as others pointed out we knew the lock system was coming but not to the degree it is. I thought it would be a SP thing only myself. If I can auto pilot it and fast forward it at 16x to get the unlocks that's fine but why even have it then? Sounds dumb to me. Just wait till we're shelling out £15.99 for an aircraft, only to have to unlock it in SP first! :lol: Just wait till we're shelling out £15.99 for an aircraft, only to have to unlock it in SP first! :lol: Thats right but on auto pilot you could be flying it in 30 minutes!
kaboki Posted October 4, 2014 Posted October 4, 2014 (edited) What masses? I dont expect BoS getting a wonder peak by a double of the temporary sold copies after Release. Why and where from? I guess most flight simmers are aware of the game right now and probably most of them already did their buy to get EA, as the basic reviews were fine (compareds to another flight sim release). Maybe 30% more copies (am just estimating) will be sold after Release, but where and why do you expect following "masses" of sold copies after the Release? I was hypotethicly speaking "if those masses" as the guy I quoted wished them welcome and saw benefits in it(more cash for devs). It probably ain't gonna happen just as MS Flight didn't succeded in the same approach(adding XP and all this arcade bullshit and left the hardcore guys out in the cold) Back offtopic, what about the multiplayer balance with this unlock system. I have already played my share of the campain and Im not doing it anymore, just starting it up makes me puke. And now Im also hearing that it will be reset so the 2 small unlocks I already unwillingly unlocked I can't even use after realese...yay. It should be up to the mission makers on the server to decide what loads we are gonna fly with and not up too who has grinded the most..It's just ridicualous. And why does it have to be like this, the devs aint' gonna loose money on us having them anyway, I just can't see the whole point in all this.. Edited October 4, 2014 by kaboki
J2_Trupobaw Posted October 4, 2014 Posted October 4, 2014 (edited) Who on earth are these masses that we're all waiting for ... ? I can't wait to meet them because they're going to be an interesting bunch based on the things that must have attracted them to join us .. ?!? People who really want to fly sims, but think complexity and learning curve of sims made for hardcore fans who already know how to fly are to much for them to handle? Unlocks and experience are familiar elements they can understand and make the game look less threatening, more like something they can manage. And yes, less hardcore. More like a game, less like USAF training aid.*Cut to slightly younger but equally ugly Trup holding IL2:1946 box in one hand and Guild Wars box in another - back when games were sold in boxes - and trying to decide which one to buy. He decides that 1946 is what he really wants, but it also looks very technical and may become "game I'm learning to play next week, every week". He buys easy, point and click MMORPG and sets himself few years back as sim pilot.* Given the very funny pictures posted on here recently, I'm sure you have people on here willing to help with this, heck a few slogans like: "Ready to take off your Warthunder training wheels????""Wanna learn how to really fly????""Realistic flight models = real world experience" (I'm sure I could write a few more, but time does not permit) I think the slogan they are aiming for is "BoS: realistic hardcore flight sim what you (yes, you!) can learn to master". Edited October 4, 2014 by Trupobaw
SYN_Jedders Posted October 4, 2014 Posted October 4, 2014 Unlocks can be fun, especially in the ladies bra area. They often lead to much fun. (Disclaimer: I have never worn any ladies lingerie, just wanna clear that up) 2
1./KG4_Blackwolf Posted October 4, 2014 Posted October 4, 2014 I see this as the first Dev blog to be locked so..
Nankeen Posted October 4, 2014 Posted October 4, 2014 In the campain, the gunners are really good! I believe, it's helped me improve as a pilot. Need to watch the speed in the Yak, pilot beware The skins on the planes look great! Screenies:
1./KG4_Blackwolf Posted October 4, 2014 Posted October 4, 2014 I just wanted to clear some things up that I've seen in the thread regarding the Eagle's Nest server...it shutting down is not a boycott or protest on anyone's part. SE members were unaware of the scrutiny involved in our opinions of the game as players on the forum (check my post history to see what I'm talking about) and it has led to its end...not by any decision of our own. I am not an employee or agent of 777/1C under any obligation to uphold any publicity or relations standards that are out of the scope of a regular rule abiding customer. By my morals, I am obligated to the gratitude for the opportunity to work on the server and thank Jason for everything he's provided. If anyone has any questions, feel free to PM me. Thank you and The Sea Eagles for providing us with a server that was going for a dynamic on line campaign type of set up. I hope maybe in the future we will see it again. I have a 24/7 server I can loan space on if needed.
FuriousMeow Posted October 4, 2014 Posted October 4, 2014 (edited) It's very clear if the game market is looked at in whole to determine just where unlocks lie. No one out there charges you full price for a game to then force you to grind away, except for shooters. Now in that case, you can earn the XP to unlock in MultiPlayer. In fact, that is the only place you can earn XP to get unlocks because the game revolves around multi-player. In most cases, were unlocks are involved, the game is Free to Play and you have two options - you either grind away for the XP to unlock, or skip that and provide CC information to purchase that unlock. That works there too, it is a source of income for the devs since it is Free to Play. However, those unlocks also are earned in multi-player. You can do unlocks in this game, it's fine - but forcing individuals to play Single Player to get content for Multi Player is a huge mistake. I do not want to play Single Player except when I feel like it, I do not want to be forced to play Single Player and forcing me to do it means I won't enjoy it. This will lead to terrible reviews, and I will review it appropriately because that is a flawed design approach. If the angle of pushing to force players to play Single Player for Multi Player content is the direction this will go, then make it so that the game is a cheaper version and those individuals that purchase the cheaper version have to play SP to get the unlocks. Simply put, unlocks are fine if they can be earned in MP and/or SP - they are not fine, and it is a very poor design decision - to force unlocks/XP only through one portion of the game when some only want to play the other portion. I get zero entertainment value, which is the whole point of a game, from being forced to play something I don't want to play. I don't care if it "only takes an hour" (which it doesn't), that is an hour I do not want to waste in the excrutiatingly boring portion of the game. I will play the occasional SP mission very rarely, QMB rather frequently just for a quick go, but I do not want to literally waste time in Single Player to get half of the game's content to use in the portion of the game I want to play. Again, unlocks/XP are fine but they have to be acheivable in both Single Player and Multi Player otherwise you are going to actually drive customers away. And for those customers that really care about the unlocks/XP, the ones that apparently number in the tens of thousands and that is the only way they will play this genre, I can also guarantee you they care little about historical accuracy, FM accuracy, DM accuracy, or anything other than flashy stuff that makes loud noises - they will be quite content with a pair of keys being dangled in front of them for hours. You could have just made a game with 1 FM shared amongst all the planes with simple cartoon graphics as long as it made loud noises with fast paced shoot 'em up that loudly announces "PLUS TWENTY XP! GOOD JOB NUMERO UNO CAPTAIN EXPLODEY PANTS!" they would be happy. Edited October 4, 2014 by FuriousMeow 1
Nankeen Posted October 4, 2014 Posted October 4, 2014 I see this as the first Dev blog to be locked so.. You have to admit, this is really funny! 1
89- Posted October 4, 2014 Posted October 4, 2014 way too young to go to war dat cheer when he got an unlock Some sad soul from these parts no doubt has already put a thumbs down on his vid
1./KG4_Blackwolf Posted October 4, 2014 Posted October 4, 2014 You have to admit, this is really funny! I thought so too!
dburne Posted October 4, 2014 Posted October 4, 2014 Don't worry mate, it's clear you were in an impossible situation from the beginning. Unfortunately, because 1C/777 decided to fund your server, they decided that by doing so it was within their rights to stop any of you guys from being able to express any opinion that was contrary to the 1C/777 ethos. I guess that's fair enough. This... So very sad.
J2_Trupobaw Posted October 4, 2014 Posted October 4, 2014 (edited) Cool. Have you met one? I haven't. Read paragraph below one you quote . I were one myself, X years ago, and have been postponing buying 1946 for years. I thought that it looked to complex, and that if I buy it I'll either never find time to learn it or I'll find the time and never finish my P.h.D. A MMORPG looked like safer choice for my time in comparison . In the end, I've smuggled myself into sims via Wings of Prey which looked casual enough for me to buy and dare to try. I still keep it installed, every so often a visiting friend wants to sit in simpit and "play with plane", and after look at my sims this is the game that does not scare them away. I think BoS may be the golden middle, accessible to people that are afraid to try, but also a sim I keep flying myself . Edited October 4, 2014 by Trupobaw
1CGS LukeFF Posted October 4, 2014 1CGS Posted October 4, 2014 Most of the unlocks are not really essential and most MP players stick to a limited planeset so the odd hour nere and there would be enough to allow enjoyment of MP Cheers Dakpilot For the most part, yes. It's the bomb and rocket loadouts for fighters that are the hangup, the way I see things. I'm cool with having unlocks for things that either were really rare and/or were modified in the field (such as the Sh-37 cannon for the Il-2 and the LaGG, removing headrest armor, the really big bombs for the Stuka and Heinkel, etc.), but standard equipment like bombs for 109 & 190 and the Russian planes should be open to all from the start.
indiaciki Posted October 4, 2014 Posted October 4, 2014 (edited) Okay, here's a major bug. I'm level 4 whatever expert and I'm flying my Bf109F for 3 or more mission without a gunsight. It doesn't work on the F4. It doesn't really matter since I don't have a clue at what altitude to intercept any of the bombers I'm supposed to destroy. When I get to the target area it says fly to exit. No kills, no bombers, no idea what fligh level, no working gunsight, no need to land = mission accomplished. I even ulocked some bombs I will never have to use... since I can't even use my guns not even in QMB... my Bf109F is blind... Edited October 4, 2014 by indiaciki
89- Posted October 4, 2014 Posted October 4, 2014 No one out there charges you full price for a game to then force you to grind away, except for shooters. You can do unlocks in this game, it's fine - but forcing individuals to play Single Player to get content for Multi Player is a huge mistake. I do not want to play Single Player except when I feel like it, I do not want to be forced to play Single Player and forcing me to do it means I won't enjoy it. This will lead to terrible reviews, and I will review it appropriately because that is a flawed design approach. Ummm... Gran Turismo?
dburne Posted October 4, 2014 Posted October 4, 2014 (edited) 19 pages of responses in a DD that began just yesterday. Says a lot. Edited October 4, 2014 by dburnette
1CGS LukeFF Posted October 4, 2014 1CGS Posted October 4, 2014 comments please! Zak explained it - a couple of unlocks for people who bought the game early on, and that's it.
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