Developer Diary, Part 81

[kaboki]

Sometimes the fire needs a little gasoline to burn better

[LonnyEnds]

I personally don't mind needing to play SP to eventually unlock stuff for MP. As long as the progress that is made from now until release is not reset. I'd much prefer playing MP, but if it takes me say 6 months of one or two SP missions completed as a "warm up" for a multiplayer session so be it. From what I have seen they have not made a grind that is too bad considering the availability of x16 time lapse. I do think it would be a bit ridiculous implementing a system ala Call of duty that literally takes days of in game time to "prestige" (get a crappy little award/ skins)

 

I completely understand hardcore MP players and I believe the core system of this game/sim is pretty solid. So many times in the past sim fans were disappointed with flat out buggy, unfinished products. (CLod, silent Hunter 4/5, whirlwind of vietnam?)

 

We exist in a hardcore section of a niche market as we are supporting & discussing sim that isn't even released. It is clear that Loft and the devs have the same passion as all of us at least. Once you add in community support (FMB etc) the potential to be great is there as a tailored experience can be created.

 

Let's all take a deep breath and hope for the best with the final release, and subsequent patching.

 

BUT PLEASE DON'T TAKE ANY HARD EARNED UNLOCKS FROM US NEXT MONTH! AND (RE)ADD IN FULL GRAPHICAL CONTROL!

[Voidhunger]

A comment for the comment: the unlock system is not about to be changed yet. It hasn't been considered at all.

The campaign logic and saturation with events may improve IF we find out that the whole campaign mode is interesting to you, the players. ROF had a superb career mode but it was never popular.

 

maybe it wasnt perfect but in comparison with this .... ROF career is absolutely amazing!!!!

is it possible to earn medals in campaign? Iron cross etc.

[IRRE_Belmont]

maybe it wasnt perfect but in comparison with this .... ROF career is absolutely amazing!!!!

is it possible to earn medals in campaign? Iron cross etc.

Nah, only some archivements

(There is some sort of medals, but not like in ROF)

Edited October 4, 2014 by SYN_BelmontFR

[SYN_Haashashin]

ROF career is absolutely amazing!!!!

 

RoF single player career wasnt there when ROF was released. It was 2 or 3 years after release, if I recall correct, when they released the SP career you see now.

[39bn_pavig]

Enjoying the campaign immensely, but then again I am a terrible pilot. But this makes me wonder - why is it that many of the folk who claim that they are hardcore simmers are gaming the game (autopilot etc) rather than just flying. The campaign seems like the perfect coffee break diversion for when the servers are full (or full of vulchers/unbalanced) or it is off hours and one just wants to fly a short mission without any stress. Taken as a simple diversion I am sure any good player would unlock everything they want given time just by flying the odd mission on a whim. We've waited over a year to get the sim, so with a bit of patience we'll get our unlocks. After all, the campaign has been out less than a day. This exploit mentality sounds like something out of the F2P community. Not mature sim players, who are known for the extreme patience required to learn complex systems and master their art.

[Jaws2002]

A comment for the comment: the unlock system is not about to be changed yet. It hasn't been considered at all.

The campaign logic and saturation with events may improve IF we find out that the whole campaign mode is interesting to you, the players. ROF had a superb career mode but it was never popular.

If that cool ROF career was not popular, who thought was a good idea to force the career on everyone?

[Voidhunger]

RoF single player career wasnt there when ROF was released. It was 2 or 3 years after release, if I recall correct, when they released the SP career you see now.

Yes i know that.

[Afwastus]

Enjoying the campaign immensely, but then again I am a terrible pilot. But this makes me wonder - why is it that many of the folk who claim that they are hardcore simmers are gaming the game (autopilot etc) rather than just flying. The campaign seems like the perfect coffee break diversion for when the servers are full (or full of vulchers/unbalanced) or it is off hours and one just wants to fly a short mission without any stress. Taken as a simple diversion I am sure any good player would unlock everything they want given time just by flying the odd mission on a whim. We've waited over a year to get the sim, so with a bit of patience we'll get our unlocks. After all, the campaign has been out less than a day. This exploit mentality sounds like something out of the F2P community. Not mature sim players, who are known for the extreme patience required to learn complex systems and master their art.

 

Simple: most of us don't want or  really enjoy playing single player. It's not that I don't occasionally run a quick mission to practice gunnery or just randomly mess around, but I haven't spent any amount of time in single player since BoBII a couple of years ago.

 

I don't find the AI challenging and I don't particularly enjoy having to grind through missions to unlock stuff I might need in MP.

 

What I enjoy with flight sims is playing with other people and having to do SP to get unlocks is essentially forcing me to do something I don't have any interest in doing. It doesn't even matter if it's an hour that I have to "waste" or twenty, just the fact that I have to spend a significant amount of my already limited free time playing a mode I don't fancy is quite a pain.

Edited October 4, 2014 by Afwastus

[Voidhunger]

I wanted to buy new GPU for this game, but thanks that the new nvidia cards are sold out in my country. I saved money

 

...back to ROF

Edited October 4, 2014 by Voidhunger

[354thFG_Leifr]

ROF had a superb career mode but it was never popular.

And here we are with a shoddy campaign unlock system in Stalingrad!

[Jaws2002]

And here we are with a shoddy campaign unlock system in Stalingrad!

+1 And forced on everyone.

[kaboki]

Enjoying the campaign immensely, but then again I am a terrible pilot. But this makes me wonder - why is it that many of the folk who claim that they are hardcore simmers are gaming the game (autopilot etc) rather than just flying. The campaign seems like the perfect coffee break diversion for when the servers are full (or full of vulchers/unbalanced) or it is off hours and one just wants to fly a short mission without any stress. Taken as a simple diversion I am sure any good player would unlock everything they want given time just by flying the odd mission on a whim. We've waited over a year to get the sim, so with a bit of patience we'll get our unlocks. After all, the campaign has been out less than a day. This exploit mentality sounds like something out of the F2P community. Not mature sim players, who are known for the extreme patience required to learn complex systems and master their art.

 

As said several times, it doesn't offer ANY challenge at all, hence it gets boring real quick and that's why people fast forward so they can take their unlocks and jump straight back into MP.... AI is never gonna get smart enough to take out a skilled human player and you can pretty much predict it's moves, that's why most of MP folks prefer MP because they get a challenge playing against other humans who are unpredictible.... 

E.g in ROF I could go up against 6-7 AI fighters alone and just pick them from the sky easy, and the same in BOS and that isn't because Im some kinda ACE or something, Im just a mediocre pilot. In MP there is no way in .... I could do the same...

Edited October 4, 2014 by kaboki

[Dakpilot]

Simple: most of us don't want or  really enjoy playing single player. It's not that I don't occasionally run a quick mission to practice gunnery or just randomly mess around, but I haven't spent any amount of time in single player since BoBII a couple of years ago.

 

I don't find the AI challenging and I don't particularly enjoy having to grind through missions to unlock stuff I might need in MP.

 

What I enjoy with flight sims is playing with other people and having to do SP to get unlocks is essentially forcing me to do something I don't have any interest in doing. It doesn't even matter if it's an hour that I have to "waste" or twenty, just the fact that I have to spend a significant amount of my already limited free time playing a mode I don't fancy is quite a pain.

 

After six months of enjoying a great Multiplayer experience the traumatic hour or two spent in single player will be a distant memory and less painful

 

Cheers Dakpilot

Edited October 4, 2014 by Dakpilot

[VRPilot]

It took me ONE mission to unlock the "remove headrest" in my 109F4. That's all I need. (unlocking skins is bugged for me). Will do the same one mission with the G2 and done. The rest is eye candy.

 

 

 

Big question: I get XP in MP, do these XP add to the progression?

[Afwastus]

 

After six months of enjoying a great Multiplayer experience the traumatic hour or two spent in single player will be a distant memory and less painful 

 

Cheers Dakpilot

 

 

Have you played SP? An hour or two won't be enough.

 

Again, however, a feature that can be explained for a portion of the playerbase as "It's only two hours of something you dislike" is hardly a good design concept.

 

What if we flip it around and say that to unlock modifications the game you have to play 20 hours of MP? Do you think that those who prefer single player would find that fun or see it as a positive part of the game?

Edited October 4, 2014 by Afwastus

[Dakpilot]

Most of the unlocks are not really essential and most MP players stick to a limited planeset so the odd hour nere and there would be enough to allow enjoyment of MP

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[FG28Kodiak]

In my opinion the single player campaign is boring and i am only playing it to get the unlocks for multiplayer use. I am playing in expert mode and with full duration, for god sake its possible to enable the level Autopilot (for the IL-2 ), so i can watch television on route.

Edited October 4, 2014 by FG28Kodiak

[89-]

ROF campaign was not "superb full stop".

 

It had completely empty world with empty aerodromes -both own and enemy's, it had lots of repetition in terms of missions on top of their simplicity, the destroyed objects miraculously reappeared in the following missions. Gameplay was very beta and very raw. What was SUPERB was GUI of the campaign with promotions, medals, period newspapers, ace leaderboard, route planner etc - that was really cool indeed.  

Edited October 4, 2014 by 89-

[wellenbrecher]

Do we have a Campaign suggestion thread somewhere?

I've now been rammed out of the sky by my wingmen four times, twice while trying to land after spending thirty minutes actually doing stuff and having fun more or less. Or is there a command to tell them to keep a bigger distance?

Leaving them somewhere to patrol on their own while you go home just to make sure they don't kill you seems to be completely silly and immersion breaking, yet also completely necessary. 

[Yakmaster]

Is this mean that after game is relised, guys who buy it then will have to aditionaly also unlock 6 airplanes, same way now equipment needs to be unlocked in SP campaign?

 

Han post on Russian forum http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/topic/1974-obsuzhdenie-81-j-chasti-dnevnikov-razrabotchika/?p=208973

 

can some one who knows russian translate corectly, thanks

Edited October 4, 2014 by Yakmaster

[Anw.StG2_Tyke]

ROF campaign was not "superb full stop".

 

It had completely empty world with empty aerodromes -both own and enemy's, it had lots of repetition in terms of missions on top of their simplicity, the destroyed objects miraculously reappeared in the following missions. Gameplay was very beta and very raw. What was SUPERB was GUI of the campaign with promotions, medals, period newspapers, ace leaderboard, route planner etc - that was really cool indeed.  

And now we have a campaign without this superb stuff and without that immersion provided by the rooster, newspaper and so on. Now we just have empty aerodromes missions which are simplier as cutting wood and last but not least a horrific grafical overlay which is so out of the atmosphere, I doubt that somebody spent thirty mins on designing it... but yes everything is good. Everything is cool, at least I don't have to play this thing... oh wait..

[Zak]

 with promotions, medals, period newspapers, ace leaderboard, route planner etc - that was really cool indeed.  

That's what I'm speaking about. Many of you ask for more immersion and storytelling. That's why I mentioned ROF and also mentioned that I was never a popular mode. Only a few heroes completed it.

Han post on Russian forum http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/topic/1974-obsuzhdenie-81-j-chasti-dnevnikov-razrabotchika/?p=208973

Achievements are in your profiles. There are also 5 mods and 10 skins per each plane

[kaboki]

Most of the unlocks are not really essential and most MP players stick to a limited planeset so the odd hour nere and there would be enough to allow enjoyment of MP

 

Cheers Dakpilot

 

Yeah, why not remove all unlocks and just have the basic planes hmmm, their not essential so why bother having them at all? Since we MP guys don't need them so maybe you SP guys would actually need them less. Yeah that would probably be very cool.

Maybe you don't need them, but I like to have those things like winter camo, remove the headrest and armored glass because I think they are cool, and the headrest thing is kinda useful(gives a better view on what goes on behind my plane). And sometimes I may wish to carry a bomb in my fighter. But hey let the devs listen to you so we can all enjoy not having these extra features at all, because you say they are essentially useless,,,really

 

It's kinda annoying enough that the devs try to force us play the camPAIN, but it's even worse that the single players also try to convince us doing the same...

Edited October 4, 2014 by kaboki

[FG28Kodiak]

Yes the solution is so simple. Unlock all Unlocks (weapons) for the multiplayers or give us the possiblity to unlock the Unlocks in MP also. I personal would prefer that the mission designer make the choice which weapons are available in the mission.

[89-]

That's what I'm speaking about. Many of you ask for more immersion and storytelling. That's why I mentioned ROF and also mentioned that I was never a popular mode. Only a few heroes completed it.

 

 

It was not popular due to its gameplay, not because of its story telling GUI - gameplay lacked an alive world with life on the airfields (they were quite literally empty!), on the roads etc. Plus missions tasks and how they actually panned out had like 5 types with very limited variation - it became obviously repetitive too quickly. Plus AI that knew only one way to fly - spiral to the ground. Hence the unpopularity. Hece only few very determined people went on to get to the end - heroes indeed.

 

I personally could live with lack of period papers and other atmospheric "between the missions stuff", but I hope that gameplay in BOS has evolved to a new level.

Edited October 4, 2014 by 89-

[Anw.StG2_Tyke]

That's what I'm speaking about. Many of you ask for more immersion and storytelling. That's why I mentioned ROF and also mentioned that I was never a popular mode. Only a few heroes completed it.

Achievements are in your profiles. There are also 5 mods and 10 skins per each plane

Aww come on zak, now you made your designdecision looking more bad than it could be.

 

Tell me where is the Difference between the ROF-Campaign and the BoS Campaign?

Basically, there is NONE you have generic missions which are lame, repetetive and in BoS even unrealistic stupid.

I mean, Intercept-Missions behind the Front-Line and the russian Bombers are coming from south-west? And in 4 Intercept-Missions I had 4 times 1 Lagg and 2 Pe-2's.

 

In Rise of Flight you atleast had logical mission design, and It made sense. Furthermore the immersion made it playable, in BoS there is nothing which makes the campaign playable except those unlocks.

[Trinkof]

Hey

 

Just a quick report on bugs I found for now  :

 

-My 109 skins are not unlocking, even if I unlock the field mod, and still grow my XP ...

-For the people being too lazy to unlock things : flying the correct mission (expert / short mission) you can unlock every single part of a plane + skins in less than one hour ... and see the positive part (even if unlocking is not my "cup of tea") -> by playing campaign you help dev spoting the bugs ... beside unlocking 

[Zak]

Some off topc, pilots,

Please, report here if you have some issues with the ingame video playback (freezes, stutters, etc.) Tell what is exactly wrong with the playback.

We also need a brief description of your PC configs.

 

HERE

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/11238-campaign-curscene-stuttering/

[CheeseGromit]

ROF had a superb career mode but it was never popular.

 

Really? I find that surprising and disappointing, I never really got into RoF but the career mode was pretty much the only thing I played the few times I installed it, it did indeed seem excellent. I guess that probably answers my earlier question about whether to expect something similar for BoS. I recall some discussions from many months ago about how the devs weren't playing to enforce "dead is dead", I wish I could remember what that related and how it fits into the current game.

 

I've not played beyond the tutorial for the BoS campaign yet but whilst it seems very flexible in terms of how people can play it I'd be keen on something with more structure and authenticity. That would mean, creating a pilot, choosing a side, being assigned to a unit (they don't have to be 100% historically accurate for my purposes because I'm not going to know any different), and then completing missions that are assigned to you whilst gaining military rank.

[kaboki]

That's what I'm speaking about. Many of you ask for more immersion and storytelling. That's why I mentioned ROF and also mentioned that I was never a popular mode. Only a few heroes completed it.

 

I really liked the "concept" on ROF single player campain but because fighting against AI never was any challenge(and never will be), I never really bothered with it and went straight too MP. But in BOS I don't even like the "concept" because I really can't see the difference from QMB and the campain, so it's even less compelling....

So when you say the ROF campain never was any succes, do you mean most people played MP? If so shouldn't that be a hint that maybe the MP crowd is what keeps these sims alive....

[Yakmaster]

....

Achievements are in your profiles. There are also 5 mods and 10 skins per each plane

 

Thanks that clears first part of his post , if you have time can you translate last part, this is what i get from google translater, is it correct? 

 

Для покупающих игру после РД (после релиза) анлоками будут 6 самолетов (кроме стартовых ЛаГГа и 109Ф4, и двух премиумных если куплены).

 

To buy the game after RD (after the release) will be unlockable 6 aircraft (except for startup and Lugg 109F4, and two premiumnyh if purchased).

 

 

Thanks, i know its not interesting for founders but for guys who didnt buy game it is

Edited October 4, 2014 by Yakmaster

[Dakpilot]

Yeah, why not remove all unlocks and just have the basic planes hmmm, their not essential so why bother having them at all? Since we MP guys don't need them so maybe you SP guys would actually need them less. Yeah that would probably be very cool.

Maybe you don't need them, but I like to have those things like winter camo, remove the headrest and armored glass because I think they are cool, and the headrest thing is kinda useful(gives a better view on what goes on behind my plane). And sometimes I may wish to carry a bomb in my fighter. But hey let the devs listen to you so we can all enjoy not having these extra features at all, because you say they are essentially useless,,,really

 

It's kinda annoying enough that the devs try to force us play the camPAIN, but it's even worse that the single players also try to convince us doing the same...

 

Who says I am a SP forcing you to play the campaign, you get headrest with one mission, winter cammo with the next ....in the time you have been on the forum here you could have all the unlocks you "need" for MP on 109F, in two weeks you will have forgotten that pain  have just done that while checking the forum  not using 16X either

 

Cheers Dakpilot

Edited October 4, 2014 by Dakpilot

[Gambit21]

 

The campaign logic and saturation with events may improve IF we find out that the whole campaign mode is interesting to you, the players.

Yes - please - keep working on it.

RoF should have been the starting point, then improving from there - rather than working to get to that point.

I don't think mine is a minority opinion on this matter.

[Zak]

Для покупающих игру после РД (после релиза) анлоками будут 6 самолетов (кроме стартовых ЛаГГа и 109Ф4, и двух премиумных если куплены).

To buy the game after RD (after the release) will be unlockable 6 aircraft (except for startup and Lugg 109F4, and two premiumnyh if purchased).

 

Thanks, i know its not interesting for founders but for guys who didnt buy game it is

This means that if there's another version (cheap, with only 2 planes available from the start) a player would need to level thru all planes.

[kaboki]

Who says I am a SP forcing you to play the campaign, you get headrest with one mission, winter cammo with the next ....in the time you have been on the forum here you could have all the unlocks you "need" for MP on 109F, in two weeks you will have forgotten that pain  have just done that while checking the forum  not using 16X either

 

Cheers Dakpilot

 

Being on this forum arguing is way more fun than go inflicting pain on myself playing through the .......... campain(Im not sadomasicistic), and that says it all really..

 

I have played 3 missions, and only unlocked the schvak and the headrest for ME109 plane, but then I didn't bother landing or shoot down more than necessary to complete the mission because I wanted it to end ASAP...

The bomber intercepts was the worst of them. The enemy bomber didn't even shoot back at me nor did they try to do manouvers to avoid getting hit, they just went straight ahead like nothing happend, oh such joy and exciting engagement . I really felt skilled taking them down(NOT)

 

Im really happy that you SP crowd are happy, but try too see things from the MP crowd perspective for a second, what if the devs forced you guys to go and grind on MP to get your unlocks too use in SP....

Edited October 4, 2014 by kaboki

[Gambit21]

(Im not sadomasicistic), 

No, just dramatic again.

[No601_Swallow]

I'd like to say that I'm still enjoying the campaign!   So far, at least.

 

Since someone pointed out how easy it is to turn off the automated aircraft aids, and being able to banish with a click of an "H" button the HUD overlay elements that many now seem to be bleating about, I can fly the missions exactly as I want, in Normal mode, with externals, able to pause the game every now and again to admire the damage I've done to my opponents, and to try and reconcile the landscape I see through the gaps in the cloud (if a lot of cloud cover has been generated) with the map on the briefings display. It's great fun, and for me a little challenging. I'm falling in love with the Lagg all over again.

 

A recent intercept mission had me climbing through a thick continuous blanket of cloud, fighting to keep on course. When I think of the hours I've ploughed into a certain other recent sim, where weather is mostly (almost entirely) absent, this was sheer simming bliss. Great stuff. Limping home with a canopy like swiss cheese and fuel and coolant spewing out the back, and the double-or-quits decision to whether to land or not (of course the answer always "go for it"). Great stuff.

 

I'm so sorry so many (Are they so many, though? Or are they just the ones into self-expression?) seem actually affronted and offended by the campaign mode. To me, I suppose it feels a bit like the good ol' UQMB from back in the day, which is no bad thing. I also think it's quite a technical achievement. I mean, it actually works! And I hope the devs continue with developing it.

[Thor]

Well, you're not speaking for me.

 

The four tutorial missions were fine. Good brief fun. For me personally it was lovely to fly "normal" difficulty for a change, and also to refly the Lagg, which I haven't flown since the Yak came out. The missions were even a bit of a challenge! I bouncy-bounced when landing on the third mission, which tore my undercarriage off and to my consternation I failed the mission. 6 measly xp points! So immediately I reflew it. Good stuff. All worked fine.

 

But please don't listen to the blinked bleating from the DF/airquake crowd.

 

Here's the interresting thing, as far as I'm concerned:

 

I levered my 14 year old pimply son off Fifa 15 on his PS3 and ordered him to have a go at the tutorial missions. He loved them. He loved the game. For the first time I've managed (that is the devs have managed) to engage him in a flight sim. Even with the visual aids and the engine management aids turned on, the physics is still the same, the feeling of flight is still the same, and my son loved it.

 

Loft, Zak, Jason: please don't listen to the sad old throw-toys-out-of-pram crowd, and keep your eyes on the big prize - growing our hobby, making a real sim available and accessible to new players. I think your innovation (like the GUI in RoF - I remember reading forum posts along the lines of "What's wrong with the IL 2 GUI? Why do we have to put up with these stupid graphics?!!!) and willingness to try new lines of attack is just great! 

 

Great post!

[dburne]

RoF single player career wasnt there when ROF was released. It was 2 or 3 years after release, if I recall correct, when they released the SP career you see now.

 

Yes and would have been a great base to build a BOS Career mode on, after all it was built on the same engine.