Developer Diary, Part 79

[Brano]

Jason clearly stated that as with previous titles devs rely on 3rd party campaign generators  (RBII,Il2) and single mission campaigns (CloD).Such as Pat Wilson Campaign Generator,which is very good and I use it exclusively in my RoF game.It utilizes (as Jason mentioned) FMB of game by creating and combining single missions into chain of events.You are awarded with kills (which you have to claim and CO do not have to confirm!),you are awarded with medals and you can write your own combat diary.Everything what old school single player dreams of.Just give it time and it will come soon (after FMB is finally released and more maps and planes will be available).Untill that happens I am perfectly fine with this Advancded QMB as I am one of those who can not dedicate too much time to flying several hours a day.I have work to take care of and also my social life (real one,not that on social networks  ) Everything else is again much ado about nothing.

[MACADEMIC]

Agree with what you say Mac but as founders you DONT have to unlock anything.....

 

Cheers Dakpilot

 

Really? The way I understood from the recording, founders don't have to unlock airplanes, but skins and loadouts will still need to be unlocked.

 

MAC

[Dakpilot]

Really? The way I understood from the recording, founders don't have to unlock airplanes, but skins and loadouts will still need to be unlocked.

 

MAC

 

We will have to wait and see then

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[Pointman]

Looks like a lot of work has been done to make the SP fun.

 

Unfortunately at this stage BOS may not be for me, but will be a great platform for future campaign updates.

[BraveSirRobin]

LoL

 

"GRIND"  = Fly interesting missions ...is that not why you bought the game...

 

Flying against AI is not even slightly interesting for me.  I probably won't fly a single SP career mission.

Agree with what you say Mac but as founders you DONT have to unlock anything.....

 

Cheers Dakpilot

 

That is not true.  Everyone has to unlock loadouts and skins.

[Zak]

Really? The way I understood from the recording, founders don't have to unlock airplanes, but skins and loadouts will still need to be unlocked.

 

MAC

You're right, Mac: planes are all available, and modifications will be usable after you unlock them flying  in single player.

[dburne]

You're right, Mac: planes are all available, and modifications will be usable after you unlock them flying  in single player.

 

Well that part I am glad to hear, the video stream sure sounded different in this regard.

[MACADEMIC]

You're right, Mac: planes are all available, and modifications will be usable after you unlock them flying  in single player.

 

Thanks Zak.

MAC

[dragon76]

You're right, Mac: planes are all available, and modifications will be usable after you unlock them flying  in single player.

Zac, what proposal you have for guys like me who have full time job, 2 kids and limited time for simming? I have time only for an hour or two in MP....I dont have time for unlocking in SP campaign. Or this  unlocking thing would be easy and quick?

Also, some of us doenst have state of art PCs and custom graphics options would be very welcomed so we can gain some more performance.

BTW, I love the sim. Keep on going. Its amazing its build in such a short timespace (for sims).

Edited September 22, 2014 by dragon76

[Endy]

Well, after all the talk, I'm still eager to get my hands on the full game.

[FlatSpinMan]

Can we leave the "SP vs MP is best" argument out of this, please. People like different things. The end.

[Trinkof]

@Zak

 

Can we have an approximative playtime to unlock all field mod and skin for one plane ?

 

I think I heard a dev saying that you do not want people to have to grind too long.

 

An answer about aprox time would probably end the debate

 

Thanks ! O7

[Vaxxtx]

What really?!?!

 

MP IS arcade like if you just hop onto public servers for quick shenanigans, which I'm sure is all you've been doing. However online campaigns is where the real immersion is. Squadrons filled with real people create historical scenarios where multiple squadrons meet up and play them out. It makes for so much more immersion than fighting predictable computer opponents. Not to mention you communicate like you would have to your wing-men and perform real air maneuvers to keep and change formations depending on the situation. There is nothing more immerion like that just those couple of examples I've given you.

 

If you think the most immersion comes from singleplayer then you will be missing out. I suggest you join a decent online squadron and experience it for yourself when things get underway. 

While I see your point to some degree, I can also see why other feel the other.

 

In DCS I was in a VAW that did weekly missions, using CAS, Fast Mover air support, spotters, ground control, and ground units, all by players of this virtual air wing. The map/mission was updated by the AAR from each wing on what was targets were destroyed, what new targets were spotted, etc. etc, and then the mission/map was updated for next week. It was a dynamic campaign that ran mostly flawlessly and used very strict and authentic radio commands and rules of engament. You get shot down, you are done and go into observer mode. It was great....when it all came together. Lag, disconnects, wonky net code could kill "immersion". Having a tense moment uncovering and trying to get into position to a target and then your wingman starts lagging and drops out, then has to come back in and make the 30min journey back to you. Kills the flow.

 

Joing a full real server in any other sim I flew in was a turn off. Why? Because people think just because a squad can get 3 bombers to fly formation they are "more realistic". Its too small scale, and too many other variables, such as idiots that also join. The respawn also makes getting shot down a "who cares". When people are looking at stats its about personal "kills" and not how a person flying wingwan kept the leaders tail cleared, etc.

 

Then that leaves some of us (SP folk) who think an enemy bomber formation of 30+ with 12 fighter escorts coming over your airfield is much more immersive. Why is this? The unknown vairiable of "idiotic" real players is not there. There is no lag, there is no level bombers flying at 1k, and respawns over and over.

 

For a strait up dogfight, another player will always (ok sometimes) be more of a challenge, but for immersion.....seeing JoEjAcKshimmy shot down - SuperLeetLeroy flashing on my screen is not immersive to a WWII air combat engagment/mission.

 

So, back to the point of why modding tools need to be released asap. To keep a core of folks looking for that accurate reproduction of operations and take part in them. And I will say it again....lets hope modders shoot for DCG 1946 dynamic style over Pat Wilson RoF generator style. Hell its the reason I still play 46'.

Edited September 22, 2014 by Vaxxtx

[sallee]

Zac, what proposal you have for guys like me who have full time job, 2 kids and limited time for simming? I have time only for an hour or two in MP....I dont have time for unlocking in SP campaign. Or this  unlocking thing would be easy and quick?

Also, some of us doenst have state of art PCs and custom graphics options would be very welcomed so we can gain some more performance.

BTW, I love the sim. Keep on going. Its amazing its build in such a short timespace (for sims).

I'm in exactly the same position. I'm hoping for a babysitting service at the very least

[PA-Sniv]

You're right, Mac: planes are all available, and modifications will be usable after you unlock them flying in single player.

 

Zak,

 

Sorry to insist but I do think that all unlocks shoudn't be bound to solo career... Many squads and players from IL2-1946 are still waiting the release to buy BoS (or not). All those players are multiplayer oriented (just look at all the SEOW campaigns currently running and how many players involved). They don't bother solo career.

 

The unlock system seems interresting for players who like solo career or WarThunder style gameplay (and furthermore if a "Lite" release of BoS is available at a cheaper price). But, it's really not interresting for squad based players. Buyers of the full edition of BoS (standard or premium) should have access to all airplanes and basic armaments for them (bombs/rockets at least), in QMB and in MP.

 

Or, at least, you should allow dedicated servers to open all game content and keep the unlock system for "official" servers.

 

Cheers,

Edited September 22, 2014 by PA-Sniv

[216th_Jordan]

I like the unlocking thing, but I also agree that servers should be free to choose which way they want to go. right now its not clear if thats whats planned or not. 

This xp earning thing is something that can really have a big impact on the player base that give the sim it's soul (and thats mostly multiplayer).

After all it's a sim with game options, and not the other way around, at least as i would see it.

[KodiakJac]

Believe me, the SP guys don't like the unlocks anymore than the MP guys. I'm amused how the MP guys want to throw the SP guys under the bus so quickly as the unlocks being an SP thing. What's good for the goose is good for the gander and at least I'm glad to see we're all in the same boat together (but wish we weren't in this boat at all).

[BraveSirRobin]

Believe me, the SP guys don't like the unlocks anymore than the MP guys. I'm amused how the MP guys want to throw the SP guys under the bus so quickly as the unlocks being an SP thing. What's good for the goose is good for the gander and at least I'm glad to see we're all in the same boat together (but wish we weren't in this boat at all).

 

No, we're not in the same boat.  You're being forced to play SP to unlock things, which is pretty much what you'd be doing anyways.  MP players, on the other hand, are being forced to play SP, which we have absolutely no interest in doing.  If we were "throwing you under the bus" we'd be demanding that they change the unlocks to be linked to MP points. 

[FlatSpinMan]

Again, leave the SP vs MP 'rivalry' out of it. Both are valid ways to enjoy the game. End of discussion.

So far comments are avoiding the personal and are generally constructive IMO. Let's have it stay that way.

[Sim]

I still have not seen or heard one shred of evidence that we will have to unlock planes to fly in QMB or MP. 

 

QMB screen from the stream:

 

[oblongmushroom]

I understand your point of view sir,

But a game cannot just satisfy everyone.. Thoses unlocks may be a great way to encourage some to  fly  differents planes they wouldn't be flying on normaly,

And maybe, they'll introduce some career mode like if ROF who knows , and some user campaigns as well!

I'm not a BIG fan of this system... But i do like developpers that changes their formulas.

We should all wait before the release of the game, until that, let's hope for some tweaks on this matter.

 

Cheers

 

I think the devs should definately consider the feedback. Whats talked about here may be the general way its recieved when its available to the masses as a final product! at least consider a campaign that feels more dynamic or start investing in that tech if your serious about developing imersive sims. Im pretty tired of the basic board game mission style SP setups and Im afraid BOS is just that. At this point Im honestly no longer excited about it and to be honest, without a realistic dynamic campaign feel its just another spoke in the wheel without any real inovations that truly make it spectacular. Yes it has a nice look but thats not what simming is or should be about. The first developer to truly diliver dynamic campaigns will be king of the hill and prosper for it. So far based on what I have eperiance and what i see coming I ould say its a 6 out of 10. People who love shiny new stuff will obviously rate it higher without looking at or truly considering the missing fundamentals that make a great sim great. Its almost like its similar to DCS but with old planes and less of what makes DCS great.

Seems like a good PS4 sim at the moment with the feeling it will have a very synthetic feel in regards to immersion. kinda like that free to play version but with better physics! 

 

Mods will only do so much but in the end it will feel repitisous without a dynamic war/missions

 

on the positive side, maybe other devs will wake up and focus on a dynamic simulation, anything else is just something thats been done to death!!!!!

[Jade_Monkey]

 

 

Seems like a good PS4 sim at the moment with the feeling it will have a very synthetic feel in regards to immersion. kinda like that free to play version but with better physics! 

 

 

To me that discredited all your other arguments that could have been valid. Too bad

[Stlg13/Sgt_Schultz]

 

 

I think the devs should definately consider the feedback. Whats talked about here may be the general way its recieved when its available to the masses as a final product! at least consider a campaign that feels more dynamic or start investing in that tech if your serious about developing imersive sims. Im pretty tired of the basic board game mission style SP setups and Im afraid BOS is just that. At this point Im honestly no longer excited about it and to be honest, without a realistic dynamic campaign feel its just another spoke in the wheel without any real inovations that truly make it spectacular. Yes it has a nice look but thats not what simming is or should be about. The first developer to truly diliver dynamic campaigns will be king of the hill and prosper for it. So far based on what I have eperiance and what i see coming I ould say its a 6 out of 10. People who love shiny new stuff will obviously rate it higher without looking at or truly considering the missing fundamentals that make a great sim great. Its almost like its similar to DCS but with old planes and less of what makes DCS great. Seems like a good PS4 sim at the moment with the feeling it will have a very synthetic feel in regards to immersion. kinda like that free to play version but with better physics!    Mods will only do so much but in the end it will feel repitisous without a dynamic war/missions   on the positive side, maybe other devs will wake up and focus on a dynamic simulation, anything else is just something thats been done to death!!!!!

 

Just look at Falcon 4.0 and BOB:WOV they have both been around now for about 10 years, and people still play them for their dynamic campaigns.  All the multiplayer guys here are worried about having to "Grind" it out in the SP campaign for unlocks, for a SP guy that's all we have to look forward to   and I guess if you do manage to will yourself through the SP campaign then you just start it all over again... *Sigh

[71st_AH_Hooves]

Alot of you are forgetting the timeline to which they have had to develop this. Is it better to wait an entire nother year? Or release, get what they have out, get the editor in lots of hands, and watch it develop into something great. The sky is falling mentality around here lately is silly. It will grow and become better than 46 was. Just give it time.

[oblongmushroom]

 

 

To me that discredited all your other arguments that could have been valid. Too bad

 

yeah, im not trying to be negative just sharing my thoughts. maybe the later was bad example right?

 

best regards

[Livai]

QMB screen from the stream:

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks to you to post this screenshot

 

I cant believe it this screenshot say to me more than 1000 words that they want to remove the Custom Realism Settings, too. Like they did with the Custom Graphic Settings before.

 

[Edited]  If there is no clear statement if Custom Realism Settings stay or go forever. I believe what I have seen that we lost the Custom Realism Settings, too. Because I dont think that it is even possible to hide/remove the Custom Realism Settings only inside the Campaign Mode?

Edited September 23, 2014 by Superghostboy

[sallee]

And he missed the bit in that screenshot which shows they're going to kill lots of kittens? He's trying to distract us.

[unreasonable]

Alot of you are forgetting the timeline to which they have had to develop this. Is it better to wait an entire nother year? Or release, get what they have out, get the editor in lots of hands, and watch it develop into something great. The sky is falling mentality around here lately is silly. It will grow and become better than 46 was. Just give it time.

I have a lot of sympathy for this view, especially since I have already had my money's worth of fun from BoS, but.....

 

Future developments are path dependent. If the engine has been designed in such a way as to make mods and squadron skins difficult to implement, whether by design or by accident, this will not be easily changed.

 

Look at RoF - a few small mods have been done to change DM, AA behavior etc, (IMHO rescuing the SP experience) but there are huge amounts of content that the community asked for or could have done for itself but it has not happened because 777/1C did not want to do it and would not give anyone else the tools, because they do not want to lose control.

 

I cannot see anything else happening here. BoS is already superior to Il2 46 in lots of ways as I am sure most will agree, but the devs have locked us all into a model where they are in control and we assume the position.

 

So it's not all bad...

You can't just invent stuff!

Come off it, where would the forum be if we couldn't just invent stuff?

And he missed the bit in that screenshot which shows they're going to kill lots of kittens? He's trying to distract us.

You are a fine one to talk about distracting us, what with that absurdly cute picture in your siggi. Is it your gf?

[Livai]

You can't just invent stuff!

 

Where in that screenshot does it even imply that Custom Difficulty is being removed from QMB?

 

We can all see that Normal Difficulty is selected on the screen, but by your reckoning they could be getting rid of Expert Difficulty in QMB too.

 

Please explain how you can draw such a ludicrous inference from that screenshot.

 

The Custom Realism Settings has no Experience point but Normal and Expert have it. They remove it from the Campaign Mode ( Source: their stream) and this is not a step far away from to remove it everywhere to simple the development progress. If I remove Custom Settings I simple the develoment progress and I dont need to testing much because I have the full controll. Thats it.  From the screenshot I see that the limitations from Campaign Mode influence Quick missons, too. And this influence can mean that the Custom Realism Settings are gone everywhere without to see it with my own eyes. I have a very bad feeling.

[Dakpilot]

The Custom Realism Settings has no Experience point but Normal and Expert have it. They remove it from the Campaign Mode ( Source: their stream) and this is not a step far away from to remove it everywhere to simple the development progress. If I remove Custom Settings I simple the develoment progress and I dont need to testing much because I have the full controll. Thats it.  From the screenshot I see that the limitations from Campaign Mode influence Quick missons, too. And this influence can mean that the Custom Realism Settings are gone everywhere without to see it with my own eyes. I have a very bad feeling.

 

LoL , and please collect your tin foil hat when you close the door on your way out 

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[LukeFF]

The Custom Realism Settings has no Experience point but Normal and Expert have it. They remove it from the Campaign Mode ( Source: their stream) and this is not a step far away from to remove it everywhere to simple the development progress. If I remove Custom Settings I simple the develoment progress and I dont need to testing much because I have the full controll. Thats it.  From the screenshot I see that the limitations from Campaign Mode influence Quick missons, too. And this influence can mean that the Custom Realism Settings are gone everywhere without to see it with my own eyes. I have a very bad feeling.

 

 

Relax, custom realism settings are still there for the QMB.

[KodiakJac]

But this just hit me...as a SP only player with the SP Campaign as my bread and butter for game play (I have no interest in the QMB instant action game play at all...I like long full missions) after I've unlocked everything in the SP Campaign and I'm coming back to play SP Campaign missions as my standard mode of game play, am I always stuck with only Expert or Normal settings for the rest of my life? I'm like many players who like a balance of settings between the two modes.

 

Some MP players may look at the SP Campaign as something they have to do only once for unlocks. But its where the meat and potatoes are for single players forever.

Edited September 23, 2014 by Bucksnort

[=69.GIAP=RADKO]

While I see your point to some degree, I can also see why other feel the other.

 

In DCS I was in a VAW that did weekly missions, using CAS, Fast Mover air support, spotters, ground control, and ground units, all by players of this virtual air wing. The map/mission was updated by the AAR from each wing on what was targets were destroyed, what new targets were spotted, etc. etc, and then the mission/map was updated for next week. It was a dynamic campaign that ran mostly flawlessly and used very strict and authentic radio commands and rules of engament. You get shot down, you are done and go into observer mode. It was great....when it all came together. Lag, disconnects, wonky net code could kill "immersion". Having a tense moment uncovering and trying to get into position to a target and then your wingman starts lagging and drops out, then has to come back in and make the 30min journey back to you. Kills the flow.

 

Joing a full real server in any other sim I flew in was a turn off. Why? Because people think just because a squad can get 3 bombers to fly formation they are "more realistic". Its too small scale, and too many other variables, such as idiots that also join. The respawn also makes getting shot down a "who cares". When people are looking at stats its about personal "kills" and not how a person flying wingwan kept the leaders tail cleared, etc.

 

Then that leaves some of us (SP folk) who think an enemy bomber formation of 30+ with 12 fighter escorts coming over your airfield is much more immersive. Why is this? The unknown vairiable of "idiotic" real players is not there. There is no lag, there is no level bombers flying at 1k, and respawns over and over.

 

For a strait up dogfight, another player will always (ok sometimes) be more of a challenge, but for immersion.....seeing JoEjAcKshimmy shot down - SuperLeetLeroy flashing on my screen is not immersive to a WWII air combat engagment/mission.

 

So, back to the point of why modding tools need to be released asap. To keep a core of folks looking for that accurate reproduction of operations and take part in them. And I will say it again....lets hope modders shoot for DCG 1946 dynamic style over Pat Wilson RoF generator style. Hell its the reason I still play 46'.

 

I agree with everything you just said there. I never suggested once that joining a public server was a realistic experience, in fact I said the opposite. I understand the lag aspect, however DCS didn't have the best net code and on a regular basis you would see your wing-man jitter about which would kill immersion, what you said is true. However I rarely see this in BoS even on the public servers. The whole name thing "JoejAcKshimmy shot down - SuperLeetLeroy" really doesn't matter too much when eventually we'll be able to turn off the notifications all together which is what many did in IL2: 1946.

 

You made a very good point about having numbers something that MP can't create in BoS just yet and AI not making mistakes. But in my opinion AI creates a very rigid environment where you can expect the same patterns over and over again. Both SP & MP have their own advantages and disadvantages and this is precisely why you and I are desperately concerned about this MMO formula that 1C thinks is a good idea. It's suicide as far as I'm concerned. Especially if they have some more grave news in store for us.

 

Is it just me but have any of you been paying much attention in multiplayer to the "2X Expert Mode" or the "50% Bailed Out" icons that show after each flight? Would it be silly of me to suggest they're thinking about doing the same for MP? 

Edited September 23, 2014 by =69.GIAP=RADKO

[SvAF/F19_Klunk]

Thought a bit more about my own question.

 

I came to the conclusion that the devs need to offer rewards for playing the game. What could they hand out other than feature unlocks? That's what they have, nothing else is available.

 

Why? Because the people who already are familiar with the genre and who buy and play the game just for their enjoyment, without any gratification other than playing the game, are not enough to justify the investment. And let's be honest, to fly/play in exactly that way requires a long lead in time where you practice and fail, until you become somewhat proficient. We all got started somewhere, and it was hard to master dogfighting from cockpit view on a PC. Most of the initial learning takes place in SP, and once you step into the MP arena you'll immediately find out that that learning was by far not enough.

 

To survice as a franchise, this game needs all the players it can get. The devs have to make game design decisions that keep the newcomers/less proficient players engaged and stay with the game. Making improvements measureable and rewarding success in SP is their chosen method. I'm actually surprised they're not offering an Arcade mode with out-of-cockpit views and plenty of helpers. That would have brought in even more players, but as experience shows, most of those would never progress into cockpits.

 

This tells me that the devs have an earnest interest in the cultivation of the new IL2 Sturmovik franchise as the non-trivial platform of the future in WWII flight simulations. They could have chosen an easier route, but didn't.

 

So now we may ask ourselves, well all good and fair, why not let the newcomers play their SP campaigns but let us old hands in MP have all the goodies available right from the start, without need to play through campaigns for that?

 

In my opinion, because that might fail to engage and cultivate the people they want to win over to the platform. To have the goods, everyone has to go through the same curriculum. The goods are the only carrots they have to give.

 

Accepting this the way it is, and playing through the SP campaigns, is a small price for the founders to pay towards the success of the platform.

 

So let's climb down from our high horses, and let's do it!

 

 

MAC

 

It's nice to see someone who actually ponders and reflects over the descisions the games designers have made ...before bursting out in affect.  I  myself am quite torn about it all as I am not the typical SP- gamer and have no real longing after "grinding" for the benefits of it , but you really bring forward some valid Points. We NEED this title to be successful, and if this descision DOES help them to aquire their sales goals, then sure, I am all for it.

 

To be honest, this is a "smallish" thing..... it's not like we have to deal with a special currency; apes, giraffes and stuff

Edited September 23, 2014 by SvAF_Klunk

[SvAF/F19_Klunk]

Alot of you are forgetting the timeline to which they have had to develop this. Is it better to wait an entire nother year? Or release, get what they have out, get the editor in lots of hands, and watch it develop into something great. The sky is falling mentality around here lately is silly. It will grow and become better than 46 was. Just give it time.

hear hear

[Dakpilot]

 

 

To be honest, this is a "smallish" thing..... it's not like we have to deal with a special currency; apes, giraffes and stuff

 

Lol just on my way to the bank to deal with some special currency issues....may encounter some of the above on the way

 

And yes these issues will seem small when we actually try them...... having to fly some SP missions! how dare they make me mix with the great unwashed!.... I refuse to purchase/want refund and will not enjoy any of the parts that may be what I want   

 

Cheers Dakpilot

 

 

Edited September 23, 2014 by Dakpilot

[SvAF/F19_Klunk]

You guys remember these kind of reviews?

http://www.combatsim.com/memb123/htm/2001/12/il2-rev/

 

They were talking about this genre's demise even back in 2001... That's is why  we need to stay patient....

Edited September 23, 2014 by SvAF_Klunk

[sallee]

 

You are a fine one to talk about distracting us, what with that absurdly cute picture in your siggi. Is it your gf?

Until the law allows me to legitimise our love by marriage, yes, that's what I have to call her.

[Rivet]

And yes these issues will seem small when we actually try them...... having to fly some SP missions!

 

 

For the MP side of the community, yes, I can see that. It's a one time irritation. Not so for the SP side of the community. It seems we've paid our money for little more than a glorified QMB. At least that still has custom settings which is at least something .

[Rama]

Look at RoF - a few small mods have been done to change DM, AA behavior etc, (IMHO rescuing the SP experience) but there are huge amounts of content that the community asked for or could have done for itself but it has not happened because 777/1C did not want to do it and would not give anyone else the tools, because they do not want to lose control.

Oh? So all the third-party made 3D objects, vehicles, maps, the PW dynamic Campaign, SEOW online wars are nothing, according to you?