Developer Diary, Part 79

[=SIM=Ruttley]

Is there a changelog for the latest update yet?

[KpaxBos]

Hello,

 

Can somebody explain me what are the advantages of being forced to play some missions to gain Experience points and the be able to use certains mods/planes (the so called "campaign") ?

What are the benefits for 1C ?

Why new players would buy this game and not being able to play the bought set of planes in campaign or in multi ?

I also hope that there will be a warning on the store page about this.

 

Have fun

Edited September 20, 2014 by KpaxBos

[LizLemon]

Requiring players to grind XP to unlock skins and mods is a terrible idea, especially if it effects MP. 

 

Sad to see the Il-2 series taking notes from the likes of War Thunder and World of Warplanes.

[wtornado]

Oh my god they are ''World of tanking'' the bloody game with XP and the unlocking of equipment.

 

I thought we were going down the old school ''buy and fly'' road I guess I was wrong.

 

I just hope it doesn't come to gold rounds and ''special camo Romulan cloaking paint''.

[=SIM=Ruttley]

Is there any way to turn off the techno chat thing, It's utterly stupid, why put so much attention into working gauges and instruments and making the planes feel alive so you can feel how your engine etc is running if you're just going to have all that data that pilots previously ahd to gather themselves intrusively pop up in green letter on your screen

[FlyingNutcase]

When the whole unlock thing was revealed a while back, I was like "WTF that's bollocks". Now I've got to say that I look forward to the process. I just hope it doesn't create issues with multiplayer and people not being able to join their squad until they offline enough; that wouldn't be so cool. Anyway, we'll see how it all pans out on release and I have enough faith in the devs that if it has flaws that they'll be addressed. Looking forward to release immensely.

[HBB*Hunger]

I hoped for a ROF Style Career with unlocks so damn hard, this SP QM Campaign is nice to look at but thats it..

[SYN_Mike77]

Ruttley:  Just turn the HUD off.  I think you do that by hitting "h".

[Jaws2002]

Hello,

 

Can somebody explain me what are the advantages of being forced to play some missions to gain Experience points and the be able to use certains mods/planes (the so called "campaign") ?

What are the benefits for 1C ?

 

 

 

Annoying players to the point they are willing to pay for the unlocks.

Basically paying for the second time.

Edited September 20, 2014 by Jaws2002

[Mmaruda]

I was sceptical about the campaign concept at first, but now that I've finally seen it... I hate it. The unlock system is retarded as well. Not the fact that you have to unlock things, but because you gain XP. In all seriousness, being a long time RPG player, I can say that the concept of XP in general has always been stupid, the difference is in most paper RPGs you are awarded XP at the end of the adventure, the cRPGs stick to the dumb concept of getting XPs for kills. So now the flight simulator will be about grinding kills to unlock "attachments" for your plane. How about getting XP for doing a good landing pattern? Or maybe for protecting your wingman? How about flying good formation, or proper radio comms? Doubt it.

 

It would have been cool, if unlocks were depended on you pilots rank and esteem, but we can't have that, since there is no virtual pilot we are playing. We're just selecting random missions from the map and playing them to grind XP. It's sort of like selecting playlists in Halo on the Xbox, to play a match to get XP and pimp your space marine.

 

Singleplayer has never been a strong point of the IL-2 series, but for someone who does not like AirQuake, multiplayer wasn't any better. Because that is what the current online module presents - AirQuake. I don't even see a point in selecting bombers here. Battlefield has more mission-like mechanics than this... Hell, Capture the Flag in Quake had as well. But I guess everyone is ok with team deathmatch with planes and a campaign whose only motivation for progression is getting XP to unlock stuff.

 

:dash:

 

[Vaxxtx]

I hoped for a ROF Style Career with unlocks so damn hard, this SP QM Campaign is nice to look at but thats it..

Hope for an Old Il2 Dgen or DCG style campaign, please. Much better and deeper than RoF's.

 

I am playing other sims for now, with BoS on the sidelines until modders take over and make it a "real" IL2 game.

[=SIM=Ruttley]

Ruttley:  Just turn the HUD off.  I think you do that by hitting "h".

That will get rid of radio subs though wont it?

[Krause]

Requiring players to grind XP to unlock skins and mods is a terrible idea, especially if it effects MP. 

 

Sad to see the Il-2 series taking notes from the likes of War Thunder and World of Warplanes.

 

I agree. That's not cool at all tbh. I don't like the idea of having SP & MP mixed.

 

And... where's the co-op missions? No compaign mode to play with other friends?

[themski]

I was sceptical about the campaign concept at first, but now that I've finally seen it... I hate it. The unlock system is retarded as well. Not the fact that you have to unlock things, but because you gain XP. In all seriousness, being a long time RPG player, I can say that the concept of XP in general has always been stupid, the difference is in most paper RPGs you are awarded XP at the end of the adventure, the cRPGs stick to the dumb concept of getting XPs for kills. So now the flight simulator will be about grinding kills to unlock "attachments" for your plane. How about getting XP for doing a good landing pattern? Or maybe for protecting your wingman? How about flying good formation, or proper radio comms? Doubt it.

 

It would have been cool, if unlocks were depended on you pilots rank and esteem, but we can't have that, since there is no virtual pilot we are playing. We're just selecting random missions from the map and playing them to grind XP. It's sort of like selecting playlists in Halo on the Xbox, to play a match to get XP and pimp your space marine.

 

Singleplayer has never been a strong point of the IL-2 series, but for someone who does not like AirQuake, multiplayer wasn't any better. Because that is what the current online module presents - AirQuake. I don't even see a point in selecting bombers here. Battlefield has more mission-like mechanics than this... Hell, Capture the Flag in Quake had as well. But I guess everyone is ok with team deathmatch with planes and a campaign whose only motivation for progression is getting XP to unlock stuff.

 

:dash:

 

You haven't tried out the Eagles Nest or the Syndicate server have you...?

[von_Tom]

 

What? This sim is set in Stalingrad over the snow? Gaaaaaah that's so WT. And where's the P51 - that plane ROXS!

 

In the Hood

[Blitzen]

I have had a major joystick problem from the beginning.I have an old Microsoft FFB2 stick that works well with every other flight sim but this one.In normal mode the plane yo-yo's around every axis making aiming & sometimes even flying nearly impossible.I can do a little better with Custom settings by checking increased rudder & simplified physics boxes. There may be some way to fix this yo-yoing effect but as of yet I haven't heard about it. Now after learning that the upcoming "campaign" function requires me to fly at least "Normal" settings,I simply don't know what to do-simply avoid campaigns ( no that won't do!!) or spring for a new joystick? I'm reluctant to do so because I do like this FFB & its input/output in every other sim, but it appears useless in BoS.Any suggestions? Joystick ideas...please?

[startrekmike]

I was sceptical about the campaign concept at first, but now that I've finally seen it... I hate it. The unlock system is retarded as well. Not the fact that you have to unlock things, but because you gain XP. In all seriousness, being a long time RPG player, I can say that the concept of XP in general has always been stupid, the difference is in most paper RPGs you are awarded XP at the end of the adventure, the cRPGs stick to the dumb concept of getting XPs for kills. So now the flight simulator will be about grinding kills to unlock "attachments" for your plane. How about getting XP for doing a good landing pattern? Or maybe for protecting your wingman? How about flying good formation, or proper radio comms? Doubt it.

 

It would have been cool, if unlocks were depended on you pilots rank and esteem, but we can't have that, since there is no virtual pilot we are playing. We're just selecting random missions from the map and playing them to grind XP. It's sort of like selecting playlists in Halo on the Xbox, to play a match to get XP and pimp your space marine.

 

Singleplayer has never been a strong point of the IL-2 series, but for someone who does not like AirQuake, multiplayer wasn't any better. Because that is what the current online module presents - AirQuake. I don't even see a point in selecting bombers here. Battlefield has more mission-like mechanics than this... Hell, Capture the Flag in Quake had as well. But I guess everyone is ok with team deathmatch with planes and a campaign whose only motivation for progression is getting XP to unlock stuff.

 

:dash:

 

 

  I don't really see the XP system as a real problem to be honest, some are going to get fixated on it because they see it as a gamey element and I suppose that is what it is but if we were to go with your idea, where a player plays a pilot that gains esteem, well, it is the same thing, you are still gaining XP, only it is not called XP, it is called esteem or leadership points or whatever other arbitrary name you want to use.

 

  The XP system makes sense, since we are not playing as one specific pilot in one specific squadron, there is really no need to dress up the XP concept with a different name.

 

  The unlock system is something that we are just going to have to deal with, 1C/777 want to try to get this sim into a larger market and as such, unlock systems might help encourage players to keep playing, it might not please hard-core, old-school flight simmers but it is such a minor thing in reality that I don't see the point in getting fussed over it. If anything, it actually encourages people to play the campaign a bit.

 

  The developers have been pretty clear that this is what we are getting for a while now, I don't know why anyone would be surprised, if you read the dev blogs and the posts the dev's make, this is all pretty much what they promised and considering the amount of time they have had for development, I think the campaign concept is pretty good.

[ST_ami7b5]

@Blitzen

 

Try to adjust elevator trim/vertical stabilizer when in flight.

So when you let the stick go plane neither climbs nor descends.

[Finkeren]

Seriously? This comes as a surprise to people???!?

 

Have you guys been living under a rock? The SP unlock system was first presented back before the first EA version and has been continuously reaffirmed by the devs ever since!

 

The system was heavily panned by a lot of community members back then (myself included) The devs are well aware of the criticisms, and they have still chosen this format. Learn to live with it or don't, but don't act like this is some kind of surprise.

[Chuck_Owl]

Still doesn't change the fact that I am very much annoyed by this decision, Fink.

Edited September 20, 2014 by 71st_AH_Chuck

[IRRE_Belmont]

Still doesn't change the fact that I am very much annoyed by this decision, Fink.

I understand your point of view sir,

But a game cannot just satisfy everyone.. Thoses unlocks may be a great way to encourage some to  fly  differents planes they wouldn't be flying on normaly,

And maybe, they'll introduce some career mode like if ROF who knows , and some user campaigns as well!

I'm not a BIG fan of this system... But i do like developpers that changes their formulas.

We should all wait before the release of the game, until that, let's hope for some tweaks on this matter.

 

Cheers

[Finkeren]

@Chuck: As am I, this is far from the campaign I would personally like, but it's a little late voicing complaints about something that's been known for over a year, just as they are about to present the SP campaign. If we couldn't change the devs' minds back then, we certainly aren't going to change them now that their work is just about done.

 

I'm personally determined to give this a try and find the enjoyable parts and grind those points, while I wait for 3rd party campaigns/careers.

 

Who knows? I might even like it.

[Rothary]

I'd be fine with it if the unlocks were exclusive to the campaign. What I don't like is the campaign dominating my whole game experience, not allowing me to use whatever modifications (or planes for new players) I want in QMB and MP, until I've really spent a lot of time in the campaign. Atleast for new players joining after release, it'd be nice to be able to take off in your favourite aircraft in QMB the first time you launch the game, instead of being required to first spend possibly hours in several other aircraft in the campaign you don't necessarily care so much for.

 

I really don't mind the campaign being what it is, I actually quite like it personally, but I simply don't want one game-mode dominating all other game-modes. Keep unlocks (atleast planes and modifications) in the campaign alone, leaving QMB and MP unaffected by them, and I'll be happy.

 

Even if someone was to make something similiar to PWCG seen in ROF for BoS, with the current plans that wouldn't change the fact that I'd still be forced to play the default campaign to unlock modifications, skins and planes for every other game-mode in the game.

[Rjel]

Wouldn't it make more sense to at least wait until the thing is released and we all have a chance to try it before some of you act so damned indignant? I've seen several posts lately from people who just got the sim, apparently flown it as quickly as possible then jumped in here to let us all know how disappointed they are. It's truly become tiresome.

[JimmyGiro]

So Loft is infected with 'optimism' !!!???

 

This is a disaster for the garage chemists, but a boon for the garage biologists, as the next phase of the legal high goes to designer viruses!

 

I wonder if it will go viral?

[senseispcc]

I find this type of qmb/campaign not a bad idea in principle but and it is a big but, generally (with very very rare exceptions) a pilot was either an fighter or a bomber, transport, recon or any other specialty and never change is type of planes flown, fighter, fighter bomber, bomber, etc... Now per personal choice you can attain this in this type of campaign.

 

 

The fact that there are XP's involved in the campaign is a way to calculate the fame of your character during his live in the respective air forces and each stage of this fame gives some advantages like a better plane or Equipment and like in real live this is a pilot choice not an obligation (once again there where exceptions to this). Also an ace or famous pilot can chose his plane decoration, in real live with limit in the game with less limits!

 

 

Now what I do not like in this campaign is the fact that in the missions you "must" get the results that the mission ask from you?  If you look with great attention to the result of most pilots in ww2 they got one (1) air victory per two (2) air combat missions (German or Allies the proportions are the same) I did hear a mission where two (2) air victories was the goal it depends of circumstances but the mission must be very easy to get this result.

 

 

The unspoken subject was the medals how and when are they given and for what result?!

 

Nice and instructive video, thanks.  

Edited September 20, 2014 by senseispcc

[sallee]

Seriously? This comes as a surprise to people???!?

 

Have you guys been living under a rock? The SP unlock system was first presented back before the first EA version and has been continuously reaffirmed by the devs ever since!

 

The system was heavily panned by a lot of community members back then (myself included) The devs are well aware of the criticisms, and they have still chosen this format. Learn to live with it or don't, but don't act like this is some kind of surprise.

Probably a question of fact and degree. It might have been a bit less clunky to have a system of promotions which might give you the choice to have certain mods (as might at least have been possible in real life) rather than a straight "you have now unlocked this mod". It may be a small difference, but perhaps a bit more immersive. I'm still not quite sure I understand the system for unloccking new aircraft.....

[actionjoe]

Thoses unlocks may be a great way to encourage some to  fly  differents planes they wouldn't be flying on normaly,

 

 

In other words, force people to fly in planes they are not interested in/they don't like. Games aren't supposed to be fun?

Edited September 20, 2014 by actionjoe

[IRRE_Belmont]

In other words, force people to fly in planes they are interested in/they don't like. Games are supposed to be fun, no?

Games are supposed to deliver a challenge

A simulator's purpose is to deliver a learning curve...

 

Also , we don't know about all the details , so i think it's a little bit early to argue about that,

But your point does make sense i a certain way

Edited September 20, 2014 by Belmont_FR

[oneeyeddog]

Is there any way to turn off the techno chat thing, It's utterly stupid, why put so much attention into working gauges and instruments and making the planes feel alive so you can feel how your engine etc is running if you're just going to have all that data that pilots previously ahd to gather themselves intrusively pop up in green letter on your screen

For me pressing 'i' cycles through and turns off the HUD.

[ericshark]

hi bos and thx for update good wek

[Zak]

In other words, force people to fly in planes they are interested in/they don't like. Games aren't supposed to be fun?

There's no such person in the entire WORLD who would need to fly plane A in order to get plane B in IL2BOS. No! You all here do have all the planes that we put in the game.

[Finkeren]

In other words, force people to fly in planes they are interested in/they don't like. Games aren't supposed to be fun?

That's a silly argument. Kinda like playing Doom and complaining, that you don't get the BFG9000 right from the start.

 

The reason a system like this doesn't belong in BoS, is because BoS is not just a game, it's a sim, and therefore should reflect reality whereever posible.

Probably a question of fact and degree. It might have been a bit less clunky to have a system of promotions which might give you the choice to have certain mods (as might at least have been possible in real life) rather than a straight "you have now unlocked this mod". It may be a small difference, but perhaps a bit more immersive. I'm still not quite sure I understand the system for unloccking new aircraft.....

We can always think of better ways to design such a campaign (I certainly can) but the fact is, that the campaign is what it is, and it's exactly what the devs said it would be. Yet people act as though they just found out, that the devs had been secretly anal-probing them through the launcher. Edited September 20, 2014 by Finkeren

[VBF-12_Stele]

I can see that a lot of effort and time was put into the unlocking system, but this feature of grinding makes IL2BOS more of a game than a simulator (I'm sure that sounds funny to hear). There are other really good sims out there right now that are strictly sims, and IL2BOS is still one of them, but I think this particular path dilutes the nature of simulators. I do have mixed feelings about this, though. Since this will be included anyways, I would rather grind for it rather than pay for those unlocks.

 

On the other hand, I can see how this really forces new simmers to really fly and get to know the planes, but some of the veteran flight simmers may feel they're just jumping through the hoops.

 

Thank you for the update!

[DasEchteTFisch]

I like the SP campaign. When you have unusually playtimes like me, it is nice to have a good opportunity to an empty MP server.

 

But I hope we will get the points we need to unlock parts also when we fly in the MP, otherwhise it will be all about how much time someone can spent to fly SP...

[AndyHill]

The campaign system looks interesting, especially so if you consider it a functional system ready for expansion and refinement. I absolutely love the way these guys talk about gamers, game design and making games in general, that means that they have miles of a head start to understanding how compelling and immersive simulators are built - even if the first version isn't perfect. At least they know what the goal should be and have a good idea about the needs. Thank you very much for not needing to refly missions to progress, that alone means that the campaign can't be a complete failure no matter what other factors you count in.

 

However, PLEASE stop with this unnecessary limitations nonsense. For example, why on earth shouldn't I be able to take expert settings but enable icons (of my own design, please) and warmed up engine especially since I'm completely willing to accept that that means it's considered standard mode and I only get 1X XP despite having lots of extra stuff turned on! In co-op multiplayer it should be up to the host to decide what options are available (and the system just checks the lowest common denominator and awards exp accordingly). The question of "realism" in simulators is one of the most heated topics in simulator gaming, mostly because there's no way to turn a desk or even a simpit into a real plane and for that very reason you really want to stay away from it, which happens by giving people the option to setup their simulator experience according to their personal preference.

 

Simply put: the campaign difficulty levels (as well as all other difficulty levels) must define the minimum difficulty requirements for the specific level, there is absolutely no harm in people turning allowed assists OFF if they don't want them!

 

It's kind of disheartening to watch the 777 guys doing such wonderful job with many difficult aspects of the game and then shooting themselves in the foot with really simple stuff, like for example fixed difficulty options and the very limited hardware settings. 

Edited September 20, 2014 by AndyHill

[Jade_Monkey]

I think there isn't technochat for water rad.

 

Someone could confirm me that it is not possible to control manually oil rad plz ? I can control water rad i think, but not for oil rad.

 

There is technochat for rads when I use a Yak. It might be a Bf109 specific issue. Maybe you didnt set the rads to manual?

 

Unlocks? Uh! This is the first big black mark for me against Stalingrad; I thought that I had purchased into a simulation, not WarThunder. Terrible choice 777.

 

Well, it's really your fault for buying things blindly and not doing the research. They have been very open and forward with how the campaign was going to work.

 

Too many people are flipping out about this like it's a surprise. I don't get it. They NEVER said it was going to be like ROF. All the people who assumed or preferred it were setting their expectations without checking what the devs were saying.

[zippyPerrserker]

 

 

Simply put: the campaign difficulty levels (as well as all other difficulty levels) must define the minimum difficulty requirements for the specific level, there is absolutely no harm in people turning allowed assists OFF if they don't want them!

 

Yes, exactly. Hopefully they will take steps to rectify this, it really doesn't make any sense.

[Recon]

Here is my comment now that you see how the Campaign will work.

 

Loft has built what he promised he would. He never said he would build the same system as ROF or 1946 or anything else. It's all there in the Dev Blogs.

 

I always knew some in the hardcore community wouldn't like this system, but luckily for you I am still here and will work with talented individuals in the community utilizing the tools like the ME and give as much support as I can so eventually there can be a Campaign that is a more like the other campaign systems you like. With the ME and a little programming talent an amazing dynamic Campaign system can be built along the lines of what Pat Wilson built for ROF over the past 3 years. It's really good and is a testament of what can be achieved with our technology.

 

The guys who want a certain type of deep role-playing campaign are not the average customer any more in this genre unfortunately. I'm one of the old school types myself too, but its not easy making a popular flying game these days with simply the older game-play designs. 

 

What you will enjoy is a sim/game that WORKS with minimal bugs that prevent you from flying and fighting. That has always been the first priority. The role-playing and historical detail you may want will have to come later on, just as much of it has come from the community with all the other popular simulations ever made. This is actually where 90% of my fun has come from as a sim pilot the last 15 years.

 

It will all sort itself out in time.

 

Jason

 

Thanks Jason - I can see this.  Get the product out the door and let people use it and grow it in the meanwhile.  Better than waiting 5 years for some 'perfect product' 

 

Your goals to deliver with minimal bugs that works is the correct approach - very refreshing.

 

Good stuff, looking forward to this feature more than any other - SP is something needed - playing online gets boring after awhile!

[sallee]

We can always think of better ways to design such a campaign (I certainly can) but the fact is, that the campaign is what it is, and it's exactly what the devs said it would be. Yet people act as though they just found out, that the devs had been secretly anal-probing them through the launcher.

A bit of KY first would have helped, perhaps.

You are right that we knew it was coming, but perhaps not all the detail. Don't get me wrong, as I say I'll be getting all the enjoyment out of I can and I would still buy it now!