Developer Diary, Part 79

[fjacobsen]

I don´t see any Technochat readigs for the manual BF-109 Water radiator positions.

 

FinnJ

[-LaFrench-Partaille]

I think there isn't technochat for water rad.

 

Someone could confirm me that it is not possible to control manually oil rad plz ? I can control water rad i think, but not for oil rad.

[FlatSpinMan]

Sim - that's a good question. I really hope that players can access things outside of the campaign, otherwise it's going to make it so hard for mission makers to make missions that anyone can play, and for online plaers it'd be pretty restrictive and off-putting, I would think. I guess it depends a lot on how easy it is to unlock things.

For me, this system looks okay and probably quite interesting (though I hope not all skins are locked for a start), but I can see it won't appeal to some people though. I hope everyone gives it a good go though.

[Endy]

Hi,

I've just watched the dev video, although it is a different approach to my expectations, it does look very well done and thought out.

I especially like the randomisation part, so no two missions will be alike. 

Working through the missions for points to progress is also a neat idea. Looking forward to trying it out.

 

I'm hopeful for a career mode in the future, in the meantime, what we'll be getting looks a good solid start.

Thanks for the hard work.

[354thFG_Leifr]

Unlocks? Uh! This is the first big black mark for me against Stalingrad; I thought that I had purchased into a simulation, not WarThunder. Terrible choice 777.

Edited September 20, 2014 by Leifr

[Finkeren]

Unlocks? Uh! This is the first big black mark for me against Stalingrad; I thought that I had purchased into a simulation, not WarThunder. Terrible choice 777.

I don't agree with it either. But you can't claim that the devs haven't been up front about this. The unlock system was presented long before the Early Access started and has been reconfirmed several times since then.

[1.JG77LuckySmile]

I think there isn't technochat for water rad.

 

Someone could confirm me that it is not possible to control manually oil rad plz ? I can control water rad i think, but not for oil rad.

At the moment im not be able to use any cind of cooling @ 109 F4. 

[Dakpilot]

Call it progression and it does not seem such a terrible thing....  think of it as having to complete a few training flights before being unleashed on the multiplayer world..with some of the flying in MP it would not be such a bad thing LoL  and for those experten..they should be able to breeze through it in no time and may even enjoy it..no biggie, and to have an infinite amount of different replayable missions in a historical situation how can anyone complain about that?

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[Bussard_x]

I do not like the option choose mission type, would be better if the mission generator would do this based on the situation. With the German encircled you would expect them to fly mainly (alarm) intercept missions. Current set up means I can choose any mission type I want. Element of surprise is also gone.

[Matt]

How will the unlockable planes work in context with simple single-player missions (under the "Missions" menu)? If I want to play a community made Ju 87 mission for example and I don't have the plane unlocked - will the game insist on playing the single-player campaign before I can play the single-player mission?

You already have all planes and don't need to unlock any plane, just the mods. People who buy BoS after release might have to unlock planes.

 

Serious, this unlocking business is very off-putting to me. I don't see why I need to unlock some load out option which was readily available. This comparison with FPS make no real sense to me, because I think Call of Duty and games like that are not really considered simulations but arcade games (I haven't played any CoD since CoD 2, so I just assume that hasn't changed). I saw BoS more on a level of Arma.

 

But apart from that, the career mode looks like I expexted. I hope it will be improved in the future either by the devs or the community.

[csThor]

@ Jason

 

I've already said that this before, but the style of your "campaign" (extended QMB is really more like it) isn't what I'd have done, but a) it's your product so you guys are entitled to your own ideas and concepts and b) I understand the crucial  money + time + manpower vs "grand ideas" thingy. It's just that I "grew up" (flightsim-wise) with campaign modules such as "Aces over Europe" or "European Air War" which were based on historical units and their service through the war. That heavily influenced my thinking and gave me the firm conviction that the unit has to be the base of any decent campaign system that isn't centered on individual storytelling. Your RoF- campaign module did just that so I have to admit I'm a bit surprised that the concept itself hasn't stuck.

[Guest deleted@30725]

I think this will be great.

 

Remember the people that don't use the forum too and to make some money they have to make this game elements or charge way higher price for their work. It's a hard balance. People gotta eat right?

 

I enjoy flying both the 109s so to get 'stuck' with the f4 is not a problem. I get a head start in learning it at least. For me it's not like you get a awful plane to then grind to the good stuff. All the planes are pretty good and from what I can tell the engine air airframe specs stay constant. No stock upgrade rubbish (looking at you war thunder). Campaign does not sound like a grind either and I like the idea of more simulation elements down the road if funds allow and other elements.

 

rng missions are still cool. Maybe this concept will be developed further either in this game or other releases. 

 

For me it will be fun. I would like it to be more history based. The battle of Stalingrad was an interesting and tragic story. There are no real winners in war, but game limitations. I get this.

 

The team is doing an amazing job with this title. Some companies (ea) would release it now and call it finished. I hope now the team is near the end there is no rush for release date. 

 

I'm sure we all appreciate being kept in the loop. I've even read many of the previous entries to see the progression.

[Dakpilot]

Would rather have the sim released in its current form, in what has to be record time! and wait for the campaigns to come later, as with  many other releases. What we have now in the time frame and how well it works surprises me each time I fly

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[Comes]

People don't seem to realize that, as you can turn off AI engine management, AI heat management, Icons, helpers, etc using key commands, there is nothing stopping any player from choosing whatever mix of normal and expert features they wish to play at. I like some of the conveniences of normal mode as well, so have just integrated "LeftShift-M, LeftShift-R, H" into my startup sequence, before checking the cockpit and wiggling my rudders and other pre-flight checks. I don't think that ruins immersion at all, and if I only get half speed progression through the campaign, so be it.

You could do that, but afaik Normal mode still prevents you from some things, such as killing your engine by flying with full throttle all the time. 

 

 

 

What if I want to fly with full engine management, but have external views or some other options that don't fall into one of two categories - I can't fly the campaign? I'm sorry but that's crazy.... why limit me to these two difficulty options? for xp? But what if I (like the majority of single player flyers I'm willing to bet) don't care about xp? Again, what good does that do for me?

 

+1

 

 

Why not bring them back and just make anything less than "expert" mode equal the 1X XP multiplier that one would receive from the "normal" settings.  I like to fly in expert mode but with external views enabled so I can occasionally pop out and enjoy the look of the planes.    Why would you remove this option from the player?  It makes no sense. 

 

I would totally like this. Or a custum mode, where XP are calculated, based on what settings you chosse. Just add some kind of custom mode, and I am a very happy customer.   

Edited September 20, 2014 by Comes

[Blooddawn1942]

At least there is an campaign.

I remember an IL2 title released not that long ago, which came without an SP Campaign. 

[actionjoe]

People who buy BoS after release might have to unlock planes.

 

 

 

That is what I fear. As you see I didn't buy the game yet, and I plan to do it (maybe) later this year, after its release.

The "campaign" (sorry, seems more to be a QMB+) will not be my cup of tea, but will I have to play this to play online missions (that need special planes/weapons) with friends that already have the game?

Edited September 20, 2014 by actionjoe

[=LD=Penshoon]

rng missions are still cool. Maybe this concept will be developed further either in this game or other releases. 

Watching the video I can see tons of ways this can be further developed on. As long as the gameplay is fun and works you can add persistence elements later when the community has judged the system.

Add a "hardcore" mode where you create a pilot name him and add him to a air force. Then you can play and gain points on a rankings list. Die and your progress is reset. Have a newspaper screen as in ROF with generated news about top pilots and who ended their streaks. This would also add another gameplay element as it creates an incentive to fly careful and stay alive.  

It's sad but many gamers today require some kind of meta gameplay to justify spending time in the game. But I think it can add to the gameplay. 

[FlyingNutcase]

I do not like the option choose mission type, would be better if the mission generator would do this based on the situation. With the German encircled you would expect them to fly mainly (alarm) intercept missions. Current set up means I can choose any mission type I want. Element of surprise is also gone.

 

We can create our own surprise by making a stack of "mission cards" (cards labelled with each mission type) - the number of each corresponding to the probabilities you want for each mission type, like 10 x Intercept; 5 x Escort; 3 x Ground Support. You're in control of the campaign design and the type of missions; also how many missions of you fly in each chapter. Perhaps after a minimum number of missions in a chapter,  roll a 10-sided die and it's the final mission if you roll a 10.

 

The key factor is that we get randomized missions. We just need a little creativity to tie them together in a way that makes sense. I just hope it's true randomization so that for example convoys aren't always in the same 2 or 3 locations for a certain mission location. That would suck; fingers crossed. :-)

EDIT: Grammar

Edited September 20, 2014 by FlyingNutcase

[Swabo]

Any read our problems in this forum ???

Campain is not included in early access right now

Thanks didnt know that

[Habu]

I hope so. In some instances from the stream it appears to be indicating that (play Ju87 to get He111 or 109F4 to get G2), but then in other instances it is not so clear and confusing (skins and weapon loadouts).

In the video, you can see that you have to fly in BF10F4 to unlock JU 87 and later BF109G2. Then, you have to fly in JU 87 to unlock HE111.

 

To resume, if you want to fly in HE111 you have to fly in the following plane :

BF109F4 -> Unlock JU87 and fly with it --> Unlock HE111 and fly with it to unlock all its weapon and skin.

 

Every plane have an unlock tree. That unlock tree is composed by skins, equipements, and for some planes, which are unlock with XP points. Have a look on that video

 

Go to 7.11 min.

 

You can see differents icons above the green line which is experience line. From the left to the right. First icon is an equipment, the second one is a skin.

[Roast]

Although I don't agree with the 'unlocking' of plane types by going through the campaign, which may be a breeze for veterans but still takes up

much of your time,

if 777/1C sticks with this idea, why not split the campaign into green pilots which need the training of a campaign, and

veterans which can choose Expert/Hard settings with complex engine management [plus, probably, expert adversaries]

but a limited campaign option.

Meaning, no need to prove to Dev. Team that one is an expert and frustrate a portion of us by forcing the campaign upon us, right?

Edited September 20, 2014 by Roast

[jaydee]

In the video, you can see that you have to fly in BF10F4 to unlock JU 87 and later BF109G2. Then, you have to fly in JU 87 to unlock HE111.

 

To resume, if you want to fly in HE111 you have to fly in the following plane :

BF109F4 -> Unlock JU87 and fly with it --> Unlock HE111 and fly with it to unlock all its weapon and skin.

 

Every plane have an unlock tree. That unlock tree is composed by skins, equipements, and for some planes, which are unlock with XP points. Have a look on that video

 

Go to 7.11 min.

 

You can see differents icons above the green line which is experience line. From the left to the right. First icon is an equipment, the second one is a skin.

Habu, I hope its not going to be like this.

I mainly fly fighters but I know some guys only fly bombers. Will they  have to Zip around in an F4 just to earn the right to use their  Bombsight  In the Heinkel,  they already purchased.

I fear that would not be a smart "Grind' for the devs.

I am mainly an offline player and I don't mind that the "Campaign/FMB" is not a priority. The Devs have been upfront from day one,so to me It will come as a progression.

If Online players have to "Grind" to get XP to fly their chosen plane, I think ,will be  a Dealbreaker for some.

Maybe ive misunderstood this update ? ~S~

[Zak]

Guys, pretty much everyone here has golden bars, which means that you would never have to unlock any plane - you've bought them. Modifications and skins are still unlockable thou.

[HagarTheHorrible]

@ Jason

 

I've already said that this before, but the style of your "campaign" (extended QMB is really more like it) isn't what I'd have done, but a) it's your product so you guys are entitled to your own ideas and concepts and b) I understand the crucial money + time + manpower vs "grand ideas" thingy. It's just that I "grew up" (flightsim-wise) with campaign modules such as "Aces over Europe" or "European Air War" which were based on historical units and their service through the war. That heavily influenced my thinking and gave me the firm conviction that the unit has to be the base of any decent campaign system that isn't centered on individual storytelling. Your RoF- campaign module did just that so I have to admit I'm a bit surprised that the concept itself hasn't stuck.

Maybe they will make the RoF campaign structure available to BoS, or maybe a third party mod group, to provide the bones for a fleshed out campaign. All it maybe needs is the hard work of research and filling it in with the appropriate dates and information. Edited September 20, 2014 by HagarTheHorrible

[C6_lefuneste]

I like the way 1C studio take care about gameplay. I also like the choice they made : offering two different modes of playing mission in campaign mode. But I think they do not go far enough in the approach "short/full mission".

I seems to me that they shall have different objective and gameplay.

So I posted here a suggestion.

What did I suggest ?

That:

For short missions : you play it it's because you want all and now => if you play the short mission you'll want to find the enemy in the shortest time and shot it down, No time to spend in other tasks. If you don't kill it you don't succeed. No suprise. You got there, you find your target. You try to kill it. If you succed you win.

For full missions: I think that people who will want to play them(as me) will want more. They want to have suprise and something more realistic. Maybe finally there will be no target at the indicated zone. Or not the planed one. And if they do not find it or managed to kill it, then the mission will not be considered as "not complete" if the pilot return back home or bail off in friendly zone. After all, in real life the pilot had to try to do their best and survive.

 

Do you share my point of view ?

[kendo]

Sorry, but i find the whole approach taken regarding unlocks being so central a part of the game to be really ill-advised, spectacularly so in fact!

 

I can follow the dev's thinking that they want to (need to) make the flight-sim genre more approachable to casual players and gamers.

 

But it seems to me that their conclusion that unlocks is the way to do this is deeply flawed - at least in the very pervasive and inflexible way they have chosen to implement it.

 

In my opinion the way to make the sim approachable and enjoyable for newbies is to ensure scalability in the difficulty options (which they have done), and then to provide excellent immersive game-play (which the campaign mode is designed to do).

 

By using the concept of unlocks - making it almost the central aspect of the game-play in fact - I fear they add comparatively little for the new people and risk annoying not just a few but most of the 'enthusiasts'.

 

But there is a die-hard insistence that is apparent from the devs that this is the way they are going to do it - and it obviously won't be and can't be changed now. But some of the decisions still seem needlessly pedantic and inflexible. They take away the ability of customers/players to play the game in the way they choose - the way that will bring them most enjoyment.   

 

1. Making those focused on multiplayer mode wade through a single player campaign in order to be able to choose loadouts and skins.

2. Restricting the campaign mode to only 2 set difficulty levels - Normal and Expert - because of the need to have an easily-accountable way of reckoning the 'points' (personally speaking I care nothing for arbitrary concepts like 'points', but I would like to fly in my own preferred way - which is full engine management with external views enabled)

3. The removal of choice of which aircraft to fly until you have unlocked it by wading through missions flying other types. (edit: from Zak's post above this may not be the case for some of us? Now i'm just confused...)

4. The removal of choice of loadout  and even skins until you earn them.

 

The central error they are making is to shoe-horn EVERYONE into having to jump through hoops to get what they want from the game. Not a good idea.

 

By all means implement a novel concept like unlocks and points-based advancement for those who will enjoy it. But provide those who are NOT interested with the ability to opt out and avoid it without crippling the game for them.

 

I recall the furore when ROF was first released and could only be played when connected to a server. I suspect the devs are heading for another stubborn refusal to face customer reality with this. And I suspect that they too will have to bite their pride and revise some of their decisions in time.

 

Would prefer it if they could revise some of these decisions before release - an example has already been suggested - allow people to use custom settings in campaign mode but only earn points at 'normal' levels.

 

But please, STOP letting the fixation with points/unlocks screw up so many other aspects of the game!!

Edited September 20, 2014 by kendo

[Habu]

Guys, pretty much everyone here has golden bars, which means that you would never have to unlock any plane - you've bought them. Modifications and skins are still unlockable thou.

Yes for us Zak, but in my squadron, there are some who are waiting the release, and the final test to buy the game. For them, they have to unlock, and would have to follow the way we saw in the video, and which i describe. It will split team between those who have acces to all, and other who have to grind. i'm pretty sur that some players will stop to play the game because they only play in MP, and don't want to waste time in solo.

 

In the video, they said that they don't want we spend many time to unlock stuff. What is the estimate time to unlock one complete tree for one plane ?

 

Le funeste, you miss something.

 

If you play a short mission in expert mode.

Objective complete : 50 XP

Experte mode : x2

so you earn 100 XP

 

if you play a full mission :

Take off : 25 XP

Objective 50 XP

Landing : 25 XP

Expert mode : x2

You earn : 200 xp

 

So take off is an easy way to earn point, landing could be a problem. So it depends of the time for the mission. If you can run 3 short mission during the same time for one full mission, yes it would be interresting. We'll see at the release.

 

PS : you can see the XP point in the video.

Edited September 20, 2014 by Habu

[C6_lefuneste]

Another though regarding the "XP grinding" mode. Well it may please or not,

I think it's very personaly.

For me, I find it more rewarding than anoying.

But I think also that there is two kind of pilot: the fighter and the bombers. And I think that if you want to be a "mud mover" pilot, you should not have to go through the "fighter" step to access to your nirvana. 

So it should be better to have two "grinding" trees : one for the fighter, one for the bombers.

For example for germans : It should be great to have a second tree starting with stukas in which I can unlock a bf109 fighter/bomber/

So I will not have to go through fighter mission (that I do not like) to have the ground attack mission that I want to play. 

[PA-Sniv]

Guys, pretty much everyone here has golden bars, which means that you would never have to unlock any plane - you've bought them. Modifications and skins are still unlockable thou.

 

Ok, so I guess the plane unlock thing is for the "lite" version of BoS (cheaper but only 2 planes available at beginning, others have to be unlocked in campaign).

 

What about missions flown on squad dedicated server in a "coop way": will the players be bound to the unlock system as well?

Edited September 20, 2014 by PA-Sniv

[Juri_JS]

It would be fine if the unlocks only affect the campaign mode, but having to unlock planes for using them in QMB and online would be an extremely bad idea. I am sure new customers won't be amused when they realize that their favorite plane isn't flyable from the beginning, because it is still locked.

[SYN_Mike77]

Ok, someone in the know has to answer this question!  The way I see it, everything in the video is presented from the campaign mode.  So all of the unlocks, skins, planes, mods etc are only applicable to the campaign.  Lets take a RoF example.  If I sign up for a career flying for the Entente in 1916 I start with a Neuiport 11.  If I would rather have an SE5a I am out of luck until I grind away for a years worth of game play.  But, I can always quit the campaign, fire up a quick mission or go online and find a server with my trusty SE5a and fly to my hearts content. 

 

Will it be the same way in BoS?  Or does the unlock tree carry over to qmb and online play too?

[Juri_JS]

Will it be the same way in BoS?  Or does the unlock tree carry over to qmb and online play too?

When you look at the video you will see that in the profile page the Pe-2 and He-111 are locked and they are also shown as locked in the QMB. So obviously at least QMB is affected too.

[[7e]Forza42]

I have to say the SLI profile is working wonderfully and the game feels much smoother, especially when moving my head using TrackIR.

The Nvidia nspector trick was not working for me at all.

 

I think the snow looks a bit brighter (too bright). Some have said that it has a teal tint but I can't really tell.

 

An issue I found in Gumrak is that people are spawning on top of each other. It has happened twice in 10 min.

I dont know how these thigns work, so it could easily be a server specific issue since it occurred in a custom server. However I just wanted to put it out there just in case it happens in ever

]

hello

Are you using 1 or 3 screens?

i update the driver to 344.11, and i saw no profile from GeForceExperience.... where did you find the il2 profile?

when i m using the 3 screens, screen is black, only icons appears :s

thanks

[sallee]

 

I have to say that I was really hoping for a career mode in line with the old Il-2 series. Unlocks and the like are a massive turn off for me and I'm disappointed. But then, it's a question of looking at the source of the disappointment. 777/1C are seeking to produce a marketable product and, however much I wish they did, my views may not reflect those of the market. Just because I want something it doesn't mean that everyone else does and I shouldn't presume to think I'm representative of everyone.

I'll have to make the best of it. If flight sims were the only area of life in which the world was disappointing, I'd be very happy!

Edited September 20, 2014 by sallee

[SR-F_Winger]

still no convergence? Zak do you think it will be activated in maybe next weeks patch?

[Chuck_Owl]

Guys, pretty much everyone here has golden bars, which means that you would never have to unlock any plane - you've bought them. Modifications and skins are still unlockable thou.

 

Edited September 20, 2014 by 71st_AH_Chuck

[SYN_Mike77]

 

 

When you look at the video you will see that in the profile page the Pe-2 and He-111 are locked and they are also shown as locked in the QMB. So obviously at least QMB is affected too.

 

 

 

Posted Today, 08:31 Guys, pretty much everyone here has golden bars, which means that you would never have to unlock any plane - you've bought them. Modifications and skins are still unlockable thou.

 

Something isn't right here!

[Matt]

They are answering that in the video. Plane will be unlocked already for everyone who already owns BoS right now.

 

And they are saying, that you only get access to things in QMB, if you unlocked them in the carreer mode. So i guess the same is true for MP aswell.

 

The video they are showing however, is like for someone who buys BoS after the release. He will still have to unlock all planes and modifications.

[Gitano_Fraile]

@Zak

No voy a opinar sobre el sistema de campaña singleplayer, porque como dice jason, vi como avanzo el del ROF y todo es posible en un futuro, aunque mis expectativas para el sim al corto plazo, son el editor de misiones y el modo cooperativo.

Lo que si quería comentar, es porque tienen que ser dos derribos obligatorios para que la misión sea exitosa, ¿desde cuando sobrevivir ya no es suficiente?. Vuelo horriblemente mal como piloto en aviones de caza, puedo decir con certeza que derribo 1 de cada 10 aviones que pasan por mi colimador y eso lo hace casi frustrante muchas veces, por lo cual estaría estancada en la primera misión durante semanas lo cual, no genera ganas de continuar.

Pediría que revean esa situación. Por lo demás sigo apostando en ud. veremos que ocurre saludos

 

-*-*-*-**-*-*-**-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-**-***-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-**-*-*-*

Zak 

I will not comment on the system singleplayer campaign because as jason says, I saw I move the ROF and everything is possible in the future, but my expectations for the sim in the short term, is the mission editor and co-op. 

What if I wanted to comment, is because they have to be two compulsory demolition order for the mission to be successful, since when survival is no longer enough?. Flight horribly wrong as a pilot in fighter planes, I can say with certainty that downing 1 in 10 planes that pass through my collimator and that makes it almost frustrating sometimes, so I'd be stuck in the first mission for weeks which not generates want to continue. 

Ask you to readdress the situation. Otherwise I'm still betting on pc. see what happens greetings

Edited September 20, 2014 by ECV56_Moro

[Letka_13/Arrow_]

@ Jason

 

I've already said that this before, but the style of your "campaign" (extended QMB is really more like it) isn't what I'd have done, but a) it's your product so you guys are entitled to your own ideas and concepts and b) I understand the crucial  money + time + manpower vs "grand ideas" thingy. It's just that I "grew up" (flightsim-wise) with campaign modules such as "Aces over Europe" or "European Air War" which were based on historical units and their service through the war. That heavily influenced my thinking and gave me the firm conviction that the unit has to be the base of any decent campaign system that isn't centered on individual storytelling. Your RoF- campaign module did just that so I have to admit I'm a bit surprised that the concept itself hasn't stuck.

Exactly my thoughts, as an offline player I am a bit disappointed with the basic ideas behind the campaign and the "win to unlock/continue/fly any mission/any plane" mindset. I was also hoping for a ROF style unit/pilot centered campaign tweaked for Stalingrad scenario.