Developer Diary, Part 79

[Stolle]

How do you disable "technochat"?

[Gambit21]

I can't understand making a game this epic and detailed only to not have solid singleplayer element to actually use it all on. Rise of flights campaign would of been more then fine, and I was under the impression that's what it was going to be, just something where you can be in a squadron and track stats and actually feel like you're in a real campaign. Multiplayer isn't my thing and and it looks like i just wasted $100 :/ not that this isn't an amazing game, but for someone who only plays singleplayer I guess it's back to BMS and ROF   (ps it is still an awesome game guys and I take my hat off to developers who make games like this when others are raking it in with the same trash every year like COD)

Don't worry too much - aside from the stock campaign, more single player content will come from the community.

[SYN_Mike77]

This to me is the biggest question.  If the SP and the MP are totally seperate then, cool.  If I have to grind on SP to get equiptment then I will not be a happy camper.

I really hope they don't force us to unlock everything in MP by playing SP... ugh.

 

Skins and cosmetic items? Ok.

 

Equipment? Not so much.

[FuriousMeow]

How do you disable "technochat"?

 

HUD - H key.

I can't understand making a game this epic and detailed only to not have solid singleplayer element to actually use it all on. Rise of flights campaign would of been more then fine, and I was under the impression that's what it was going to be, just something where you can be in a squadron and track stats and actually feel like you're in a real campaign. Multiplayer isn't my thing and and it looks like i just wasted $100 :/ not that this isn't an amazing game, but for someone who only plays singleplayer I guess it's back to BMS and ROF   (ps it is still an awesome game guys and I take my hat off to developers who make games like this when others are raking it in with the same trash every year like COD)

 

RoF's career system didn't come about until a long time after it's release. It took a lot of research to build as well. In one year's time, you will not have a campaign like RoF's - there just isn't time when the rest of the game has to be built. But how do you know the campaign system isn't any good? You haven't tried it yet. No one has, and it is just a quick showing of it in a livestream.

 

And the DCGs that IL-2 1946 have are user created, plus they also didn't come about for several years after Il-2 original was released.

 

The better campaign systems have always been user created, or heavily user modified - even RBII's amazing campaign system was actually very broken and had a LOT of historical issues that were corrected through end users work.

Edited September 20, 2014 by FuriousMeow

[MolotoK]

I like the idea of a points system to unlock content/phases of the battle. The 'hardcore' simulator crowd isn't going to like it, but that's just the way people are.

 

What I don't understand at all is how randomly generated missions can be considered a campaign. Take away the XP progression and it's basically a random mission generator on 5 different versions of the map. (Please correct me if I'm misunderstanding the system.)

I know that you are on a tight budget and schedule and that the campaign system is not going to change before release, but this not at all what was expected and really needs to be addressed post release. The whole point of a campaign in a flight sim is to give the missions some context. It should give the player some emotional investment in his virtual pilot's life. Without that what's the point of playing single player?

 

Let the hobby historians bitch and moan about not historically accurate squadron placement, but at least have squadrons. A date and time for the missions. A simple description of the context before the mission. Some flavour text for random or historical events.

"The enemy is continuing its attack in the north. Your task is to fly ground support in sector xyz."

"today's operations were canceled due to bad weather"

"squadron x was moved to airfield y"

[SCG_Neun]

Agree totally FM...it's going to take some time for this to pan out.  It's going to happen...when....probably not soon enough.

[zippyPerrserker]

Just finished watching the video, and I gotta say I'm pretty disappointed. I really, really hope they reconsider some aspects and ask themselves -

 "what benefit do these features bring to the single player flight sim enthusiast?

The general concept of the campaign being broken down into 5 historical chapters with generated missions you can choose from is interesting, sure maybe not what we'd want (i.e. a more typical squadron based single player campaign) but still, with their limited time I actually think it's pretty cool.

what's not cool, however, is having to worry about 'progression', 'xp', 'unlocking', and not being able to use a custom difficulty setting in the campaign!

What benefit does that bring me? How does that help me enjoy the game?

What if I want to fly with full engine management, but have external views or some other options that don't fall into one of two categories - I can't fly the campaign? I'm sorry but that's crazy.... why limit me to these two difficulty options? for xp? But what if I (like the majority of single player flyers I'm willing to bet) don't care about xp?

Again, what good does that do for me?

 

I just don't get it. Posted this over at simhq also, gotta say it's a real bummer. I hope they reconsider and give players who don't care about xp and want to play with whatever difficulty settings they want to an option to just, you know, play the game.
 

[SYN_Mike77]

I think (and I may have misunderstood) that the two different levels is talking about the mission length and complexity (air spawn vs take off/ landing vs mission ending point) and not whether you have CEM on or allow external views.  That's how I understood it anyway.

[FlyingNutcase]

Reality? Yes, I remember the stories of the LW and VVS pilots trying to earn XP to unlock paintjobs for their planes, and new airfields to fly to. Those were rough times, especially if they were green, and didn't get the double XP bonus like the vets did.

 

Campaign style is not fresh OR new. Its a QMB with a different interface. Pretty barebone, and not interesting in the least.

 

This is what BoS's main focus on SP came to be?

 

 

I can't understand making a game this epic and detailed only to not have solid singleplayer element to actually use it all on. Rise of flights campaign would of been more then fine, and I was under the impression that's what it was going to be, just something where you can be in a squadron and track stats and actually feel like you're in a real campaign. Multiplayer isn't my thing and and it looks like i just wasted $100 :/ not that this isn't an amazing game, but for someone who only plays singleplayer I guess it's back to BMS and ROF   (ps it is still an awesome game guys and I take my hat off to developers who make games like this when others are raking it in with the same trash every year like COD)

 

 

 

Why not create your own dynamic campaign:

1) Create a persona - name, DOB, background; with a photo borrowed from the internet; print it out, make it "real".

 

2) Fly Dead Is Dead; the same plane, from the same or appropriate airfields and create your own storyline based on the random missions. Roll a dice or draw from a stack of "mission cards" for the type of mission you'll be flying, weighted to the kind of missions that you prefer or are realistic for the scenario. Keep a flight log.

 

3) If you die, roll a 6-sided die. 1-3 and the campaign is over. Time for a new profile; 4-6 and it was just a bad dream. Wakey wakey, your CO's got mission orders.

 

Or however you might want to play it out. As, was it Zak, mentioned, we're being given a creative (and random) playground. Pretty cool IMHO.

 

Peace,

 

Flying Nutcase

[Jade_Monkey]

Starting with a clean slate, with no background in flight sims, I think the campaign looks great! There is randomization and at the same time some order through the chapters.

 

I think a lot of the complaints come from people with the wrong expectations. Many assumed that the campaign had to be the same as ROF when there is no reason for that. This is a different approach and it will bring a different kind of fun.

 

I can't understand making a game this epic and detailed only to not have solid singleplayer element to actually use it all on. Rise of flights campaign would of been more then fine, and I was under the impression that's what it was going to be, just something where you can be in a squadron and track stats and actually feel like you're in a real campaign. Multiplayer isn't my thing and and it looks like i just wasted $100 :/ not that this isn't an amazing game, but for someone who only plays singleplayer I guess it's back to BMS and ROF   (ps it is still an awesome game guys and I take my hat off to developers who make games like this when others are raking it in with the same trash every year like COD)

 

You dont have to go backto BMS or ROF. Just try the campaing and see if you enjoy it. Even if you are not with your squadron, the missions are still a lot of fun (i expect). What you miss is what happens in between missions, the continuity. However that part is not really playable, so there is no need to make it a big deal.

 

Ultimately flying the missions is what it's really fun in any simulator.

 

 

what's not cool, however, is having to worry about 'progression', 'xp', 'unlocking', and not being able to use a custom difficulty setting in the campaign!
What benefit does that bring me? How does that help me enjoy the game?

 

It might push you to try harder and learn to fly with harder settings. For some that might not be fun but i know I would like a challenge like that.

[SCG_Neun]

 

Why not create your own dynamic campaign:

1) Create a persona - name, DOB, background; with a photo borrowed from the internet; print it out, make it "real".

 

2) Fly Dead Is Dead; the same plane, from the same or appropriate airfields and create your own storyline based on the random missions. Roll a dice or draw from a stack of "mission cards" for the type of mission you'll be flying, weighted to the kind of missions that you prefer or are realistic for the scenario. Keep a flight log.

 

3) If you die, roll a 6-sided die. 1-3 and the campaign is over. Time for a new profile; 4-6 and it was just a bad dream. Wakey wakey, your CO's got mission orders.

 

Or however you might want to play it out. As, was it Zak, mentioned, we're being given a creative (and random) playground. Pretty cool IMHO.

 

Peace,

 

Flying Nutcase

 

Yes, this is what I do as well...

http://www.simulatedaircombat.com/combat/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16

Edited September 20, 2014 by JagdNeun

[Stlg13/Sgt_Schultz]

 

 

RoF's career system didn't come about until a long time after it's release. It took a lot of research to build as well. In one year's time, you will not have a campaign like RoF's - there just isn't time when the rest of the game has to be built. But how do you know the campaign system isn't any good? You haven't tried it yet. No one has, and it is just a quick showing of it in a livestream.   And the DCGs that IL-2 1946 have are user created, plus they also didn't come about for several years after Il-2 original was released.   The better campaign systems have always been user created, or heavily user modified - even RBII's amazing campaign system was actually very broken and had a LOT of historical issues that were corrected through end users work.

 

 

I wasn't debating whether it was good or not. I was saying as other users have stated, it is essentially just a random mission generator with no real depth, witch to some people is fine but for someone like me who plays solely SP that  isn't enough to keep me interested, and believe me I want to be.

 

As for community content and future gamemodes/patches that would be awesome and hope it happens.

[Jason_Williams]

Here is my comment now that you see how the Campaign will work.

 

Loft has built what he promised he would. He never said he would build the same system as ROF or 1946 or anything else. It's all there in the Dev Blogs.

I always knew some in the hardcore community wouldn't like this system, but luckily for you I am still here and will work with talented individuals in the community utilizing the tools like the ME and give as much support as I can so eventually there can be a Campaign that is a more like the other campaign systems you like. With the ME and a little programming talent an amazing dynamic Campaign system can be built along the lines of what Pat Wilson built for ROF over the past 3 years. It's really good and is a testament of what can be achieved with our technology.

The guys who want a certain type of deep role-playing campaign are not the average customer any more in this genre unfortunately. I'm one of the old school types myself too, but its not easy making a popular flying game these days with simply the older game-play designs. 

What you will enjoy is a sim/game that WORKS with minimal bugs that prevent you from flying and fighting. That has always been the first priority. The role-playing and historical detail you may want will have to come later on, just as much of it has come from the community with all the other popular simulations ever made. This is actually where 90% of my fun has come from as a sim pilot the last 15 years.

It will all sort itself out in time.
 

Jason

[LukeFF]

Personally, I don't think the lack of a career mode like the one in Rise of Flight is that big of an issue right now, given that the initial version of the game covers only ~2.5 months and one portion of one campaign. Real-world pilots would have been very lucky to have been promoted once in such a short timeframe (if at all), and if they were very good they might be awarded a medal or two. Like with Rise of Flight, IL2, etc., getting all of what we want is just going to take some more time.

[Mugwump]

Very disappointed with what's been shown of the single player portion of the game.  It appears to be nothing more than a slightly more detailed version of the quick mission generator where there's no penalty for failure and no reward for success.  Just an endless grind for XP.  This would be more at home in an MMO, not a flight simulator.  I'm also not happy to see that custom features have been disabled.  Why not bring them back and just make anything less than "expert" mode equal the 1X XP multiplier that one would receive from the "normal" settings.  I like to fly in expert mode but with external views enabled so I can occasionally pop out and enjoy the look of the planes. 

 

Why would you remove this option from the player?  It makes no sense. 

[Bearcat]

As long as I can toss up some kind of challenging QM and get good online play I will be happy. This whole endeavour is still a massive WIP anyway but it looks PDG to me.. However ... and maybe i missed it because I have been scarce these past few months due to real life issues.. but .. I am still not clear on how the campaign unlocks will compare to MP and SP (as in single mission not campaign)  play.. I understand why the campaign will have the unlocks that it will ...and that makes perfect sense.. In fact I have never been a campaign kind of simmer but this may actually change that .. but in terms of random QMs or online... there is no relation to campaign unlocks and what is possible there ... is that correct?

[zippyPerrserker]

"....Why not bring them back and just make anything less than "expert" mode equal the 1X XP multiplier that one would receive from the "normal" settings.  I like to fly in expert mode but with external views enabled so I can occasionally pop out and enjoy the look of the planes. 

 

Why would you remove this option from the player?  It makes no sense."

 

     I really do hope they at least take something like this into consideration, I like to fly in expert mode but also like having the option to have external views, and also to occasionally toggle icons on and off. It just seems a shame that as it stands now I can't even play any of the campaign this way.  It really doesn't make sense to not let people play the campaign how they want to in single player mode.

[MarcoRossolini]

So Jason, are you building the T-34 of flight sims?

 

I'm not sure about this yet, but I'm not going to complain just yet, I look forward to forming an opinion on it when it arrives.

[FuriousMeow]

So using H to disable the HUD to get rid of the plane chat also gets rid of player chat. Can we get that separated? I'd like to be able to read player chat, but I can't stand the plane text feedback - and I really believe that should be tied to a difficulty setting in the first place as "experts" should be monitoring their gauges and opening/closing radiators as the gauges give them feedback to do so. Flaps and gear is also something you can see by the way of gauges/lights/switches.

[FuriousMeow]

And I'm not sure how to make of the XP/unlocks, watched a bit of the livestream, which I never do, and it sounds like we do have to play the SP campaign to get "unlocks/skins" for MP. But that means people will be playing SP, and not MP, to get all of the unlocks. This also means lower numbers in MP, which will drive away customers. The only way this could be combined would be to make the campaign MP and allow players to progress through it together, and earning the unlocks together to be used later in MP. Essentially it seems like SP has to be played in order to get anything other than the basic aircraft for MP, and that just isn't going to be feasible or work well. So either SP needs to actually become MP so players can play the campaign together and unlock items for MP, or all items need to be already unlocked for MP. It won't work any other way, because MP will either be totally vacant since people will be playing SP to get everything so they can actually play MP and you'll lose MP customers, and SP will only be played through grudgingly, or not at all and that means no further sales so no further anything, to get the points to get the unlocks. No one who wants to play MP wants to be forced to play SP to get unlocks for MP, and no one will be in MP if we can't do unlocks in MP. It would have been a much better idea to have made the campaign MP if we must play it to get unlocks/skins. Forcing people to play SP to get content for MP just, it will be a failure in the long run.

Edited September 20, 2014 by FuriousMeow

[Jade_Monkey]

I have to say the SLI profile is working wonderfully and the game feels much smoother, especially when moving my head using TrackIR.

The Nvidia nspector trick was not working for me at all.

 

I think the snow looks a bit brighter (too bright). Some have said that it has a teal tint but I can't really tell.

 

An issue I found in Gumrak is that people are spawning on top of each other. It has happened twice in 10 min.

I dont know how these thigns work, so it could easily be a server specific issue since it occurred in a custom server. However I just wanted to put it out there just in case it happens in every server.

 

[Sparrer]

S!

I seriously don't understand why you guys decided to change the HUD completely in the edge of the final run to the release, even with this bad acceptance. The old bos HUD design was well accepted with just some minor questions not in the design but just in the content. I hope still a chance to get it back

 

@Furious

 

Thats why i defend:

 

 

The expandable hud is great, i would set like this:

1 off

2 Speed, altitude, Heading (and maybe throttle %)

3 Speed, Altitude, Heading, Prop Pitch, Mixture, Fuel

The other thinks like radiators, gear, flaps, engine selection, wep, supercharger......just in a event updade, like a message showing just when you are changing them. And please no blinking and shining like the old il2

And no all % of radiator and flaps.....10%, 20%, 30% are fine.

All of them small and with thin fonts, not with this mp3 style

And in the corner, not this ugly middle style

Edited September 20, 2014 by Sparrer

[SYN_Mike77]

I really think MP will be seperate from the SP unlock system

[FuriousMeow]

I really think MP will be seperate from the SP unlock system

 

I hope so. In some instances from the stream it appears to be indicating that (play Ju87 to get He111 or 109F4 to get G2), but then in other instances it is not so clear and confusing (skins and weapon loadouts).

Edited September 20, 2014 by FuriousMeow

[SYN_Mike77]

I think every thing they showed us was within the campaign so I really don't think it will carry over.

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

 

 

YOU SEE, WILHELM, IF WE ATTACH FIGHTERS TOGETHER, WE VILL ALWAYS HAVE ZE NUMERICAL ADVANTAGE.

 

AND IF WE USE DIFFERENT FIGHTERS, DER SOVIETS VILL NOT KNOW WHO TO DEAL WITH!

Edited September 20, 2014 by MiG21bisFishbedL

[unreasonable]

Here is my comment now that you see how the Campaign will work.[/size]

 

 

Jason

Appreciate your comments Jason. As an old school type myself I would love to have a RB2/RoF style SP campaign, but I understand that you have to put bread and butter on the table before you can add the jam, if you are to keep your business (and our fun) alive and growing. Keep up the good work!

[FuriousMeow]

YOU SEE, WILHELM, IF WE ATTACH FIGHTERS TOGETHER, WE VILL ALWAYS HAVE ZE NUMERICAL ADVANTAGE.

 

AND IF WE USE DIFFERENT FIGHTERS, DER SOVIETS VILL NOT KNOW WHO TO DEAL WITH!

 

For anyone confused about MiG21's post...

 

And for MiG21..

[Juri_JS]

 

I always knew some in the hardcore community wouldn't like this system, but luckily for you I am still here and will work with talented individuals in the community utilizing the tools like the ME and give as much support as I can so eventually there can be a Campaign that is a more like the other campaign systems you like. With the ME and a little programming talent an amazing dynamic Campaign system can be built along the lines of what Pat Wilson built for ROF over the past 3 years. It's really good and is a testament of what can be achieved with our technology.

 

 

Wouldn't it be the easiest way to port the RoF career system into BoS and adept it to the ww2 setting? Or are the differences between the RoF and BoS version of the game engine to large to allow this?

[FuriousMeow]

Wouldn't it be the easiest way to port the RoF career system into BoS and adept it to the ww2 setting? Or are the differences between the RoF and BoS version of the game engine to large to allow this?

 

You can't do that. Different maps, planes, squadrons, armament, missions, etc. It has to be redesigned from the ground up. Porting in itself is a lot of work just for graphics, and porting is almost always in reference to graphics.

Edited September 20, 2014 by FuriousMeow

[Juri_JS]

You can't do that. Different maps, planes, squadrons, armament, missions, etc. It has to be redesigned from the ground up. Porting in itself is a lot of work just for graphics, and porting is almost always in reference to graphics.

There is obviously a misunderstanding here. I was talking about the basic career system. For example the GUI, statistic system to keep track of losses in a squadron or the mission generation engine. Naturally graphics, planes, squadrons etc. need to be adepted, but from my experience in helping with the further development of the Il-2 1946 campaign engine (DGen), this is relatively easy, compared to programming completely new algorithms for mission generation or a new statistics system.

Edited September 20, 2014 by Juri_JS

[39bn_pavig]

I like the concept of the campaign.

But I won't be able to play the campaing on full realism but with External views. Don't like that...

People don't seem to realize that, as you can turn off AI engine management, AI heat management, Icons, helpers, etc using key commands, there is nothing stopping any player from choosing whatever mix of normal and expert features they wish to play at. I like some of the conveniences of normal mode as well, so have just integrated "LeftShift-M, LeftShift-R, H" into my startup sequence, before checking the cockpit and wiggling my rudders and other pre-flight checks. I don't think that ruins immersion at all, and if I only get half speed progression through the campaign, so be it.

[FlatSpinMan]

That's quite interesting. I personally am fine with their approach to the campaign. If I want to stick with one pilot I can just select the same airfield and aircraft type. The video and the section names give me enough of a context to stimulate my imagination.

I can see that some won't like thus way, though.

[Phant0m]

I'm fine with the campaigns too - provided there are enough distractions and ambience. I would of liked to see a couple of special missions for each phase, that would be based on history and not randomly generated, that are needed to be completed successfully to progress.

 

Can't wait to try it out soon.

[FuriousMeow]

There is obviously a misunderstanding here. I was talking about the basic career system. For example the GUI, statistic system to keep track of losses in a squadron or the mission generation engine. Naturally graphics, planes, squadrons etc. need to be adepted, but from my experience in helping with the further development of the Il-2 1946 campaign engine (DGen), this is relatively easy, compared to programming completely new algorithms for mission generation or a new statistics system.

 

Oh, yeah - no I agree it should be easy to just use the underlying mission generation again - but I think they are doing that, hence why you can't replay the same mission twice because the mission will regenerate differently. But, not sure - just going off the little bit of information from the livestream as to the design of the BoS system vs the RoF career system.

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

 So what was exactly the content of this update? Some fixes on DM, manual options for Bf109 and new HUD messages? Release notes would be great, easy to see what was done and adds to the transparency in development. Guesswork just feeds the heated discussion of hidden changes and all that. Game ran fine though and shall see how it works with CrossFire, just ordered a second 290X

[=69.GIAP=RADKO]

I'm not really sure why there is a XP unlock system in single player campaign. I'm struggling to understand why it would benefit anyone or what roll it fills.

 

My heart sinks of the thought that anyone who wants to fly with me together in a Yak-1 or La5 will have to be forced away first to a singleplayer environment. If I was just looking to fly BoS in singleplayer I still wouldn't understand why the XP?

Edited September 20, 2014 by =69.GIAP=RADKO

[Swabo]

Ok i hAve two problem about Your game ;

First in my game i dont have Campaign mode

Second i cant log in on forum from my pc ( allwAys give me error mail or password)

I post this true my phone .

[Saurer]

Ok i hAve two problem about Your game ;

First in my game i dont have Campaign mode

Second i cant log in on forum from my pc ( allwAys give me error mail or password)

I post this true my phone .

 

Campain is not included in early access right now

[Sim]

How will the unlockable planes work in context with simple single-player missions (under the "Missions" menu)? If I want to play a community made Ju 87 mission for example and I don't have the plane unlocked - will the game insist on playing the single-player campaign before I can play the single-player mission?