The Bomber Pilot's Bar

[Chuck_Owl]

There is a certain bond, a brotherhood between bomber pilots that is hard to describe. Traditionally, flying a bomber means flying a slow, vulnerable hunk of metallic pain. You fly long missions, often without escort while having a huge bullseye painted on your fuselage. It is a thrilling but thankless job that very few dare take on. But us bomber pilots know the dance, and we find comfort in the company of other colourful nutjobs willing to face such an insane amount of death, destruction and adversity.

 

I thought it would be a good idea to create a thread specifically for bomber pilots. People can post tips and tricks, ask questions, plan missions, make suggestions, discuss engine management and operation, coordinate flights and even talk bombing tactics and strategy. Planning big wings with both bombers and fighter escorts is something I really liked to do in other sims, and I see the same potential in Battle of Stalingrad.

 

*** 

 

I recently had some thoughts about the way bombing missions are done. One thing I have noticed is that we often have a lot of trouble coordinating bombing missions. Medium Bombers (Pe-2) and Ground Attack Aircraft (Ju-87, Il-2) did not necessarily have the same role. While the Stuka and Sturmoviks were very useful in taking out small ground targets like tanks, artillery positions and AAA emplacements, Medium bombers were often used to hit bigger targets where AOE (area of effect) was an important factor .

 

As of now, bombing missions essentially consist of hitting relatively small ground targets and practically no "big" target. Of course, there are trains too which are not that small, but... I mean areas that actually  need to be bombed. In CloD, for instance, medium bombers are used to bomb airfields, docks and factories. So far, in the current server missions we have, we do not have these kind of targets, which makes the bomber's life a bit dull. Why carry so many bombs if we are sent to schwack pesky flies with it? One thing I really liked with CloD was that we would plan to hit an airfield, plot our own course and drop our ordinance using high altitude to our advantage. As soon as bombs hit the enemy airfields, a text message would pop in bright red letters for certain amount of bombs saying "Airfield XYZ damaged 10 %" and so on and so forth until "Airfield XYZ destroyed! Objective X accomplished by red team!". These objective messages, I swear to the mighty Cthulhu himself, made the whole team's teamspeak burst with cries of joy and triumph. 

 

If such messages were to be shown, could they be shown outside the chat log? When I fly in Expert mode, I turn off my chat and instrument panel in order to preserve immersion, yet I still want to know what's going on.

 

Will features like this (objective status messages) be available in the mission editor? I think this will make bombing much more rewarding as the battle will be won (depending on objectives set by mission builders) by bombers, which become a dynamic objective themselves as they need to be protected by fighters. Fighters would actually see a point to escort bombers as they allow you to win the map and attract all sorts of trouble that will put the fighter jock's skills to the test. See? More fun for everyone.

 

Thoughts?

 

***

 

Oh, and here is a celebratory video for the He-111! Featuring JimTM, OneEyedDog and yours truly. Good times!

 

Routineflug - The Milk Run

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fUDvsPNgUg

[RoterBallon]

Getting started with He 111 (basics):

1.While taxiing set rpm governor for max

2.Dont use rudder much,propwash is very tiny and ineffective with He111,use brakes instead.Turning left = step on left brake gently

3.You can also pull stick a bit to increase pressure on tailwheel.

4.Your take off rpm can be max 2600 but beware,this is Notleistung,dont misuse it for long.Right after take off,decrease rpm to cruise setting of 2250.Ata at 1.1

5.Oil radiator has different keys bind then on other planes.Check your settings for (smtg like oil radiator next position)

6.Water radiator opens by pulling two green T shape levers on right side of pilot.

 

[SeriousFox]

 

Getting started with He 111 (basics):

 

 

Climb setting for 2200 rpm / 1.2 ata / 200km/h seems to work without engine failure.

[Pharoah]

Ahh I certainly belong here. Like dropping a bomb in a pickle barrel 

 

My only tip is...fly in formation with others for mutual support of defensive firepower...but we all know that.

[SeriousFox]

 

Pe-2 and He 111 has a external pilot animation. Will it be also added to fighters? 

[LoneMerc]

Nice thread, only thing I like to see is a list of players dedicated for bombing so when online we can find each other group together at anytime. Even if 2 or 3 can get together it's better than solo. Maybe start a new thread edit the list as it grows.

[354thFG_Leifr]

Excellent thread Chuck.

Although I would rather err towards the option of providing fighter escort for the bomber groups, I would be more than happy to participate in organised runs with other folk.

Whilst we are awaiting (patiently!) for community-made missions and servers (-coughSYNDICATE!) to arrive, would it not be feasible to organise a specific time and date each week (or multiple times each week) where this kind of activity is encouraged. I typically have an aversion to regulated events but it can be useful in the early months of a fresh game - sets the tone for what follows and hopefully encourages folk to get into good habits.

Edited August 25, 2014 by Leifr

[sallee]

Good ideas there, Chuck. I'd be very happy to seek safety in numbers in a He111 if anyone wants. Limited as to time, though!

[csThor]

I'm not a particular fan of such "messages" even though I fully agree about area targets. I saw the implementation in videos of CloD and I dislike these flashy ads "Shoot bombers here". Besides I often felt that the bombloads needed to destroy such area targets were ridiculously low to date. But then I'm a hardcore fan of historical details.

[steppenwolf]

 

Pe-2 and He 111 has a external pilot animation. Will it be also added to fighters? 

+1000...............

 

More things like this!!

[malcheus]

 

Getting started with He 111 (basics):

 

question: When I am flying, just after takeoff, the ata is very high, and I have to reduce RPMs to +/-1900 to get the ATA to 1.1.

Is this normal? am I missing something? The supercharger is in the standard setting.

 

edit: nvm, the answer was reduce throttle and increase RPM (found out 2 seconds after posting  )

 

Also, the water and oil temps don't seem to be working when starting with a cold engine, anyone else encounter that?

Edited August 25, 2014 by malcheus

[Chuck_Owl]

Let us not forget about the Peshka too!

One thing I have been taught very recently is to give your gunners commands when you takeoff. I think it's RightAlt + 1 for "Fire at Will" and RightAlt + 9 for "Engage at long range".

When I don't do these 2 steps, my gunners seem to have a hard time engaging anybody, even at point blank range.

 

Has anyone tried the autopilot yet? I haven't tried it yet.

[JimTM]

Thanks for the video Chuck. That was a fun flight. I have successfully tried the level autopilot, by the way.

 

I guess I'm a little more of a fighter pilot at heart but I do enjoy flying the bombers too. If I'm in a fighter and I see a friendly bomber, I generally fly escort. I encourage other pilots to do the same; it's great experience.

 

I hope the devs can implement a dedicated bomb aimer position someday. That would be a nice bump in realism.

 

See you on the bomb run!

Edited August 25, 2014 by JimTM

[LoneMerc]

Let us not forget about the Peshka too!

 

One thing I have been taught very recently is to give your gunners commands when you takeoff. I think it's RightAlt + 1 for "Fire at Will" and RightAlt + 9 for "Engage at long range".

 

When I don't do these 2 steps, my gunners seem to have a hard time engaging anybody, even at point blank range.

 

Has anyone tried the autopilot yet? I haven't tried it yet.

 

 I always do that, not sure on its effects with out using it I do recall early wondering why my AI was not firing but i could have been poor angles, But I always issue those commands as soon as I take off no harm and adds to immersion.

[MarcoRossolini]

My appreciation for bomber pilots has been great ever since in my very first Pe-2 sortie on the Stalingrad map, where one random guy formed up in formation on me for the trip to Stalingrad... when I began my rocket run all I could do was waggle my wings and head down, I got shot down (damn clouds over the airfield, its always the same!) but I don't know what happened to him...

[Freycinet]

Can't play atm so just a question, is the He-111 upper pilot position, looking out over the top of the fuselage, modelled, as it is in CoD?

[Pharoah]

Is it me or do the MGs on the He-111 not carry a lot of ammo in those little drums?

 

Important note for fighter pilots - if you want easy(ier) kills, fly escort to bombers! a lot of noob enemy fighter pilots just bore in for the easy kill forgetting about the enemy fighter on their 6. 

[Chuck_Owl]

My appreciation for bomber pilots has been great ever since in my very first Pe-2 sortie on the Stalingrad map, where one random guy formed up in formation on me for the trip to Stalingrad... when I began my rocket run all I could do was waggle my wings and head down, I got shot down (damn clouds over the airfield, its always the same!) but I don't know what happened to him...

 

My experience with bomber pilots is that they are teamplayers at heart by necessity. If you're by yourself, you are just begging to get shot down in a matter of seconds. The minute you have a bunch of smart bomber pilots working together, you can accomplish even the toughest, most daring tasks. Those who have seen my Band of Blennies series on youtube know what I'm talking about. I know lots of (virtual) fighter pilots who are top chaps and quite deadly, but for them flying is a lonesome experience and they are perfectly fine with it. Strangely enough, most of them fly exclusively 109s. (not trying to poke at anybody, it's just a genuine observation)

 

Can't play atm so just a question, is the He-111 upper pilot position, looking out over the top of the fuselage, modelled, as it is in CoD?

 

Do you mean, the co-pilot's/bombardier seat?

[LukeFF]

Is it me or do the MGs on the He-111 not carry a lot of ammo in those little drums?

 

It had a rate of fire of about 1,000 rpm, and the drums carried only 75 rounds, so yep, you are going to burn through the ammo very fast. That's why there's drums all over the place at each gun station. 

[Pharoah]

It had a rate of fire of about 1,000 rpm, and the drums carried only 75 rounds, so yep, you are going to burn through the ammo very fast. That's why there's drums all over the place at each gun station. 

 

lol ah ok makes sense. 

[1./KG4_Blackwolf]

Good post Chuck. Most of my group is just dedicated bomber guys. We haven't been online in BOS  much yet. In ROF we would use the chat to get with other bomber guys and squads to plan a mission to take out a target. Not the best way to do it but it worked. So a thread to plan and get together is a good idea.  We have different tactics as most do depending on the target. NOE and sneaking up on the target or up in the nose bleed section (my favorite). One thing that make a high alt run hard is mission time, climb to xyz alt ,start heading out to target and get the 5 minute warning..I know we all have been there. Once we get more big targets and missions on line like ROF, this could be fun.

[keeno]

Blackwolf,

 

I'd definately be up for that, sounds great. Normally I fly russian as I like the under-dog status but the HE111 is just so beautiful and great to fly,  a decent formation could kick some serious ass, especially if we could get some human manned gun positions.

 

oh yea!

oh BTW another tip for the HE111 defensive guns:

 

when you start firing at a target make sure to empty the 75round drum at him, otherwise when you start firing to beat off the enemy AC's next attack you could end up out of ammo mid attack and have to change drums leadin to the loss of your plane.

 

Cheers

[71st_AH_Mastiff]

good I need to know what those black knobs are. or are they not working..

 

left console panel next to the orange balls.

[SeriousFox]

good I need to know what those black knobs are. or are they not working..

 

left console panel next to the orange balls.

 

Can you upload a screenshot of it?

[RoterBallon]

Does anybody know correct prop pitch for  He 111?

For Starting, climbing, lvl flight and finally landing?

having a hard time taking off already since I'm not picking up speed

[RoterBallon]

Ok. Managed to fly the He 111 successfully now :D

A lot of fun to fly :D

[Freycinet]

Do you mean, the co-pilot's/bombardier seat?

No. The pilot in the He-111 could open the canopy above his head and raise his seat so that he could look out over the top of the fuselage. They used it for taxying mostly. This is modelled in CoD: it is quite funny to fly like that.

[AndyJWest]

No. The pilot in the He-111 could open the canopy above his head and raise his seat so that he could look out over the top of the fuselage. They used it for taxying mostly. This is modelled in CoD: it is quite funny to fly like that.

Does anyone have a photo showing how this worked? Did the control column etc rise with the seat? I'd have thought that reaching the rudder pedals in particular would be difficult otherwise.

[oneeyeddog]

Does anyone have a photo showing how this worked? Did the control column etc rise with the seat? I'd have thought that reaching the rudder pedals in particular would be difficult otherwise.

Andy, i thought the hatches were just escape hatches but i found  a link with a pic and caption that shows otherwise.  Theres even a little windscreen that can be propped up when the pilot sticks his head out.

Scroll down to page 39 or so     http://www.scribd.com/doc/62544901/SSP-In-Action-184-Heinkel-He111     I have no idea how he reaches the rudder pedals or the control yoke or any of the controls for that matter.

Thanks for pointing that out Freycinet

Edited August 26, 2014 by oneeyeddog

[Sokol1]

I too dont know this He 111 (CloD) feature, the "Raise seat".

 

But looking how work, makes sense, the whole set of seat, pedals and yoke and left console pivots upward. Look in this plastic model:

 

http://i898.photobucket.com/albums/ac185/obdl3945/GEDC0307.jpg

http://i898.photobucket.com/albums/ac185/obdl3945/GEDC0325-R.jpg

 

Is not like "Mustang Giraffe way of fly (and fight)" on Bf 109.

 

Sokol1

Edited August 26, 2014 by Sokol1

[1./KG4_Blackwolf]

Blackwolf,

 

I'd definately be up for that, sounds great. Normally I fly russian as I like the under-dog status but the HE111 is just so beautiful and great to fly,  a decent formation could kick some serious ass, especially if we could get some human manned gun positions.

 

oh yea!

oh BTW another tip for the HE111 defensive guns:

 

when you start firing at a target make sure to empty the 75round drum at him, otherwise when you start firing to beat off the enemy AC's next attack you could end up out of ammo mid attack and have to change drums leadin to the loss of your plane.

 

Cheers

Yeah as soon as we get some good targets and missions  (cough Syndicate looking at you  !) we can get some big wings going.

[Chuck_Owl]

An overall pretty interesting mission went on tonight (the brand new Syndicate server mission). With Hooves as bomber lead, Cujo as No.2 and myself as No.3 (and Mastiff as my trusty tail gunner), we went for a high altitude bombing run to destroy some artillery positions. With nasty winds swooshing at 4 km, our aim was completely thrown off and we ended up destroying a vast pile of harmless snow.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 27, 2014 by 71st_AH_Chuck

[Chuck_Owl]

Pictures part 2

 

 

 

 

Pictures part 3

 

 

 

http://imgur.com/rGQMCBw.jpg

 

http://imgur.com/ItSam2x.jpg

 

http://imgur.com/YMvoJGa.jpg

 

http://imgur.com/xl4dHbi.jpg

 

 

 

 

Edited August 27, 2014 by 71st_AH_Chuck

[JimTM]

Very nice pictures Chuck.

[71st_AH_Hooves]

very fun sortie, but yea that wind was gnarly.  Great work with the Mission by the Syndicate boys!!

[Freycinet]

Ok, I take it the He-111 doesn't have the pilot seat that can be raised. It was actually all the pilot position that was raised, pedals, control column and all, with a little hydraulic hand pump. It was meant to be used during landings in adverse weather conditions, when the view through the 'tunnel of glass' (as Eric Brown called it) left something to be desired. Anyway, no biggie, even though it is fun to use in CoD.

[71st_AH_Hooves]

Ok, I take it the He-111 doesn't have the pilot seat that can be raised. It was actually all the pilot position that was raised, pedals, control column and all, with a little hydraulic hand pump. It was meant to be used during landings in adverse weather conditions, when the view through the 'tunnel of glass' (as Eric Brown called it) left something to be desired. Anyway, no biggie, even though it is fun to use in CoD.

Hey there Frey! Havent seen ya in awhile. I kniw it not the whole seat. But cant you just raise the pilots head via the f10 function?

[Chuck_Owl]

Currently working on a high-altitude level bombing guide with the Peshka (which will include CEM, navigation and takeoff/landing procedures as well). Should be available in the next few days.

He-111 guide will follow.

 

The guide will be something close to my Blenheim guide for those who already saw it on ATAG. Here is the Blennie guide (link below) to give you an idea of the level of detail I'm aiming for.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20586543/High-Altitude%20Bombing%20Guide%202.0.pdf

Edited August 28, 2014 by 71st_AH_Chuck

[SeriousFox]

Tried SYN sever last night. I took upper gunner seat of someone's He 111. We flew about 30 minutes and I said, "Are we there yet?"

 

He replied with "I have no idea where I'm going"  I was like 

 

We need GPS xD

[Pharoah]

Tried SYN sever last night. I took upper gunner seat of someone's He 111. We flew about 30 minutes and I said, "Are we there yet?"

 

He replied with "I have no idea where I'm going"  I was like 

 

We need GPS xD

 

lol that cracked me up!!! ha ha