IL-2 Sturmovik: Battle of Stalingrad Pre-Order Program

[csThor]

good show csThor, veiled personal insults about my objectivity followed by your take that several Russian planes were "overmodeled". Very mature and objective. I see we are off to a good start.

 

Read your first post again and think why a native german may consider this offensive. You left out that several aircraft were less than accurate but you only insinuated that the "german lobby" had somehow talked Oleg into "improving" the german crates. You also claimed that several soviet aircraft remained undermodeled because of this. If this isn't selective perception I don't know what it is.

 

 

I am sure we all remember what a zoo the old IL-2 forum became especially over FM "discussions". The sim won't be released for six-nine months and you already have several posters questioning the sources the developppers will be using to make sure German planes are not "under-modelled".

 

The only way the new sim will please the majority is if all planes, Russian and German, are modelled using the same standards. I am sure we can all agree on that.

 

Yes, I remember the zoo and the banana board and not too fondly. Fact is I couldn't care less about the chart monkeys and their flamefests, imagined self-importance and self-applied "expert status". I want accurately modeled aircraft - no spit-polishing halos because of "reputation" - and I won't kick up a stink if plane ABC is a mere 2.31 km/h too slow at low altitude. I've got different priorities and don't waste my time on FM arguments ... most of which can be summed up under this pic

 

 

I posted my reply because I considered (and still do) your first post offensive to me as a native german and someone primarily interested in german aircraft. This I wanted to make known and I consider this case closed from my side.

[EAF19_Marsh]

Out of interest, were all non-original tests of aircraft (ie usually captured) negative? There is the obvious unfamiliarity with the aircraft and potential for erroneous usage or interpretation, but I am wondering if such an alternative perspective always belittled performance or capability?

 

I must admit the ones I can think of are usually less than complimentary with a few exceptions (Fw 190 testing by RAF and USAAF pilots, Spitfires by Luftwaffe pilots - except the negative-G cut-out issue). Since these report were used to help pilots that had to meet and defeat these types, it made little sense to completely rubbish their performance. Could contemporary '3rd party reviews' of aircraft help create a more rounded understanding for the developers of how the aircraft felt to fly?

[II./JG27_Rich]

I think I'm finally going to have to break down and get a hotas set. CH Fighterstich and Throttle with pedals

Edited August 20, 2013 by Richie

[Sgt_Joch]

I see... that is why the La-5/7 family is based entirely on "etalon" prototype aircraft instead of actual production planes

 

 

 

Hi, not wanting to turn this into a FM debate since this is probably not the time and place, but I was reading at the 1c forum on the 4.12 patch (debating whether to reinstal il-2 46) and came across the "russian fighter and the 4.12 patch" thread. Interesting reading, but a lot of misinformation floating around, mostly because most posters seem to be picking up odds and end from the web. I am not sure where this idea that the performance figures for the Lagg-3/La-5/7series  are based on prototypes came from.

 

I have a copy of Gordon/Khazanov's "Soviet combat aircraft in ww2" at home which discusses in detail the evolution of the series, with all the variants and official state and factory tests and from what I see the performance of the Lagg-3/La-5/7 series in IL-2 46 basically matches the figures in that book for production planes. Now the book was published in 1998 so the Devs may have access to newer info, but I doubt the speed/climb rate/turn rate of Lagg-3/La-5/7 series in BoS will be much different from Il-2 46.

 

I could post the test results from the book in a new thread if that would be of interest.

[FTC_Karaya]

I have a scan of the performance table of LaGG-3 & La-5 versions in the "Soviet Combat Aircraft - Volume One" as well as a few others which are in good agreement.

 

The 1942 La-5 in IL-2 is 40kmh too fast at sea level and 20kmh too fast at FTH (6250)

 

The 1943 La-5F is about correct at sea level but 30kmh too fast at FTH (6150)

 

The 1943 La-5FN is 10kmh too fast at sea level and 20kmh at FTH (6150)

 

The 1944 La-7 is actually 5kmh too slow at sea level but 25kmh too fast at FTH (6000)

 

This is compared to aircraft marked as "production". The "doubler" and "standard" aircraft are usually the prototype production standard setters (etalon) with performances that the actual serial built aircraft could only dream of achieving.

Edited August 20, 2013 by JG52Karaya

[AX2]

 

The 1943 La-5FN is 10kmh too fast at sea level and 20kmh at FTH (6150)

 

 

About Il2 1946 ...

Only...  10 and 20 kmh ?

 

 

 

But this is BOS.

I trust about their FM ....   . 

Edited August 21, 2013 by Mustang

[FuriousMeow]

Not even the beta has been released, and yet the FM complaints are present.

[AX2]

Il2 1946 = 10 years of scams, 

 

 

But this is BoS! 

I must tell again This RoF! is amazing!

I will trust !

There's my pre order 

 

[Sgt_Joch]

I have a scan of the performance table of LaGG-3 & La-5 versions in the "Soviet Combat Aircraft - Volume One" as well as a few others which are in good agreement.

 

The 1942 La-5 in IL-2 is 40kmh too fast at sea level and 20kmh too fast at FTH (6250)

 

 

well again, without knowing exactly which variant is modeled, it is sort of like comparing apples and oranges.

 

Again looking at the "Soviet fighters and 4.12 patch" thread, someone posted the La-5 as having a max airspeed of 519 kmh at sea level (without wep), 600 kmh at 6 km and a turn time of 19.8 seconds in IL-2 1946.

 

This matches exactly the performance of the 1943 La-5 production model, i.e. max airspeed of 518 kmh at sea level (without wep), 600 kmh at 6.5 km and a turn time of 19 seconds. It is listed as a 1943 model in the performance charts, but reached the frontline squadrons and flew combat missions beginning in november 1942 over Stalingrad.

 

Anyway BoS is a new sim with a new Dev team, we will see what they come up with.

[FlatSpinMan]

Hey guys

Your enthusiasm for FM accuracy is admirable but I'm afraid this thread is not the place.:-)

Also, rehashing the old IL2's FM debates has no real relevance to IL2: Battle of Stalingrad. New game, new team, same prefix.

[Pupo]

...and another one bites the dust....

 

cna't wait for Fall.

[Heywooood]

FM debates are still beta - wait until general release version, complete with CHARTZ

 

its extra funny

[Aeromaster37]

After spending all my money on building a new computer I wasn't sure I would be able to pre-order this. After working in this boiling sun for my neighbor this weekend I finally got to pre-order Premium!  If this one is anything like IL2-1946 it will be totally worth it. I can't wait.

[ShamrockOneFive]

I've been reading around but I haven't seen anything definitive... is there a date when the last day will be for pre-orders? Will that be different between the Standard and Premium editions? I'm hesitant to place a pre-order right now as my contract is up soon and I'm waiting for the renewal. If I get it... then I'll pre-order.

[FlatSpinMan]

Good luck with that, Icefire.

If you can get the Premium one, well and good, but theres more important things in life, eh?

 

I have seen something about the dates - was it the end of September??? I recall Jason saying there was plenty of time, and that was a few weeks ago.

 

You going to be rejigging any of your campaigns, do you think?

[Mac_Messer]

I find this insinuation utterly primitive, one-sided and revealingly selective when it comes to remembering Il-2. There are several soviet aircraft that got "advantageous treatment" especially when it comes to DM and engine management (read: overheating). La-5 family anyone?

Right you are. There was a number of some "mistakes" in Soviet planes modelling Oleg made back in the days. The Lavochkin overheat thing is an extreme case of the rather optimistic modelling. When talking about the Soviet planes in IL2 really the only thing one needs to mention is that none of the early types have been modelled with construction and quality flaws that made them harder to fly. Other than that, on the LW we`ve had some simple mistakes that neutered German planes, such as Mk108 having the ballistics and weight modelled to those of the MK103.

[Zak]

I've been reading around but I haven't seen anything definitive... is there a date when the last day will be for pre-orders? Will that be different between the Standard and Premium editions? I'm hesitant to place a pre-order right now as my contract is up soon and I'm waiting for the renewal. If I get it... then I'll pre-order.

Later this week we'll be announcing some news about the pre-order including details about dates

[ShamrockOneFive]

Later this week we'll be announcing some news about the pre-order including details about dates

Good stuff! Thanks Zak!

[Bearcat]

Later this week we'll be announcing some news about the pre-order including details about dates

[SCG_Neun]

I think I'm finally going to have to break down and get a hotas set. CH Fighterstich and Throttle with pedals

Got that rig a couple of weeks ago and I'm very pleased with the setup.

[Recon]

All German planes are overmodelled - that is first thing we all learn in basic training  

[TheBlackPenguin]

Later this week we'll be announcing some news about the pre-order including details about dates

 

Looking forward to it! *going back to hitting the update button on the ROF launcher*.

[SvAF/F16_Goblin]

Off topic:

Hitting update button on ROF finally paid of :D

Downloading

[ST_ami7b5]

Off topic:

Hitting update button on ROF finally paid of :D

Downloading

 

Thanks, going there...

[Trident_109]

 

 

Not sure if having Jinx waiting outside of Pixie and Dixie's hole is a good representation of anticipation. Nothing good came out of that for Jinxie.

 

 

But thanks for the childhood memory jog. LOL

[VeryOldMan]

Right you are. There was a number of some "mistakes" in Soviet planes modelling Oleg made back in the days. The Lavochkin overheat thing is an extreme case of the rather optimistic modelling. When talking about the Soviet planes in IL2 really the only thing one needs to mention is that none of the early types have been modelled with construction and quality flaws that made them harder to fly. Other than that, on the LW we`ve had some simple mistakes that neutered German planes, such as Mk108 having the ballistics and weight modelled to those of the MK103.

 

 

what? The Mk103 have better ballistics than the MK108.. that woud be overmodeles.. not neutering....

[Bearcat]

Not sure if having Jinx waiting outside of Pixie and Dixie's hole is a good representation of anticipation. Nothing good came out of that for Jinxie.

 

 

But thanks for the childhood memory jog. LOL

 

 

LMAO!! Yeah I didn't think about that .. but then it always does turn out bad for the cat right? Look at Sylvester.. and Tom ... but T.C. made out ok...

[71st_AH_Mastiff]

FM debates are still beta - wait until general release version, complete with CHARTZ

 

its extra funny

yea My chart is better than your chart, so it must be true?..

[fergal69]

Don't mind pre-ordering, but once pre-ordered I assume it will be a download. Could I then obtain a boxed version later, as being old fashioned I like to have a hard copy.

Edited August 29, 2013 by fergal69

[FuriousMeow]

Burn the download to a DVD.

 

From the original RoF disc to what is available now is several GB worth of download, so having an original on disc is worthless.

 

With a constantly evolving product, game discs are a thing of the past.

[ShamrockOneFive]

Good luck with that, Icefire.

If you can get the Premium one, well and good, but theres more important things in life, eh?

 

I have seen something about the dates - was it the end of September??? I recall Jason saying there was plenty of time, and that was a few weeks ago.

 

You going to be rejigging any of your campaigns, do you think?

Yep! We'll see how it goes

 

Not sure how things will go with the mission builder. I used to have a lot more time than I do these days... but I may attempt something after I really get into it. We'll see.

[SOLIDKREATE]

I pulled the trigger:

 

 

Congratulations! You have successfully pre-ordered the Premium Edition of "IL-2 Sturmovik: Battle of Stalingrad"!
You will be one the first who will have early access to the game this autumn.

Thank you for supporting us!

 

 

 

I can't wait to fly the 'Butcher Bird'.

Edited August 30, 2013 by Erg./JG54_SPEKTRE

[Bisch]

This is not a "release date question".

Im just curious whether the Devs gave more hints than "autumn" for the premium edition I ordered although being a CLOD-Victim

(Was a ROF-Victim in the beginning to - but they made a leap concerning quality I have never seen before in a game's history)

Now I just need to get my Logitech G940 (attempt no 1,435)

[CrashMoses]

Got that rig a couple of weeks ago and I'm very pleased with the setup.

 

Ditto.  Was forced to upgrade when I went to Win7 and my old TM HOTAS was incompatible.  Best bang for your buck.  You'll like it (however, I did modify my serial rudder pedals with an old USB stick and creative soldering...some things can still be done on the cheap...quite proud of that one. :-)   )

[AndyHill]

This is not a "release date question".

Im just curious whether the Devs gave more hints than "autumn" for the premium edition I ordered although being a CLOD-Victim

(Was a ROF-Victim in the beginning to - but they made a leap concerning quality I have never seen before in a game's history)

Now I just need to get my Logitech G940 (attempt no 1,435)

I think in the latest developer video stream they said that they would now start focusing on weapon modeling & effects and when those are done, the first sets of betas would go out. No idea about the timeframe, however.

[TheBlackPenguin]

I doubt they'd want to give any details on dates until they're certain, lets say they were aiming for next week, but then have to postpone it due to a bug you know we'll end up seeing the moderators running around trying to put fires out lol.

[Sethos]

I doubt they'd want to give any details on dates until they're certain, lets say they were aiming for next week, but then have to postpone it due to a bug you know we'll end up seeing the moderators running around trying to put fires out lol.

 

People would probably show up at their place of work and set an actual fire. 

[Bisch]

Thanks AndyHill,

 

any Logitech G940 specialist in here? Tried to get it to work for so many years when it came out with the help of logitech forums, firmware and software updates and different settings - no luck. It still felt so unprecise...like moving in a gear box
Don't wanna hijack the thread. Write a PM

[Zak]

I think in the latest developer video stream they said that they would now start focusing on weapon modeling & effects and when those are done, the first sets of betas would go out. No idea about the timeframe, however.

Possibly not all, but every necessary and essenctial visual effect will be added for the early access in Autumn. That should be a month or so.

[ST_ami7b5]

^^ Nice to hear