DB 605A-1 1.42 ata (WEP) duration

[LColony_Kong]

I said that 10 minutes or even longer 1.42 ata could be plausible (also to me). But if you want players to adhere to the manual, you have to be more coarse. I also said, if 1 minute (or so) is all that we are given becuse this is supposed to be an emergency rating rather than yout default setting, it would help having more of a cue when the engine seizes, other than setting a chess clock next to the monitor.

 

If however we would be given 15 minutes of guaranteed operation time at 1.42 ata, then you can imagine how people would fly online. That is what I would call archade.

I will gladly take unrealistic behavior based abuse of boost outside of combat where it matters less, than even more unrealistic behavior when the planes performance actually matters when it meets another plane.

 

It is obvious that realisim in combat matters more in a combat sim rather than in cruise.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

A bench test seeking failures, again for testing, is not anything a pilot who intends to get home would seek to do in the real world. I think one minute is too low for sure but trying to extrapolate running in the engine or a long term engine wear test as typical usage is deeply flawed as well.

[Matt]

 

 

If however we would be given 15 minutes of guaranteed operation time at 1.42 ata, then you can imagine how people would fly online. That is what I would call archade.

 

I don't really see how more realistic engine limitations would turn MP into arcade. The consequence should be the exact opposite.

 

Besides that, the majority doesn't even play online and could't care less what people might or might not do on WoL or Berloga. Singleplayer missions can last 45 minutes, no way you could fly with WEP all the time even if it would be increased to 15 minutes. So you would only use it when necessary, pretty much exactly how the real pilots handled it.

[303_Kwiatek]

One Lagg3 during test in 1942 dive to near 700kph IAS which doesnt mean that all Laggs could do it. Lagg3 manual from 1943 still restrict max dive speed to 600 kph IAS and La5 for 625 kph and La5FN from 1944 to 650 kph. But in game all Laggs La and Yaks could do up to 750 kph IAS in dive. Why in case of emergency power for Db engines it is opposite?

 

I think tmas always it should be resonable compromise. 3 minut emergency seemed quite resonable the same like only 50 kph more in maximum dive speeds what manuals say for all planes.

Edited January 5, 2018 by 303_Kwiatek

[Corsair]

I really feel that for some people this topic is more about balance, and controlling "online meta", rather than a fair and reasonable interpretation and depiction of the aircraft & engine and its capabilities. This is quite bothering...

Edited January 5, 2018 by EC5/25_Corsair

[=RvE=Windmills]

Please read the manuals before making claims that do not contribute to the discussion in a relevant way.

 

Manuals stating the 1 minute restrictions also mention a total ban and unavailability of the 1,42 ata setting

 

These are all pre mid-43 manuals.

 

Post mid-43 manuals, concurring with revision of the DB 605 A engine, state the availability of the 1,42 ata setting without any quoted restriction.

 

So that's relatively straightforward then, in that case the limits were no longer imposed past mid 43. Allowing for some interpretation on what would be allowed for at least the G6 I guess, 3 or 5 minutes or whatever. Something that is more usable that 1 minute at least.

Edited January 5, 2018 by Windmills

[bivalov]

my last findings for DB 605 A/B -

 

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/WW2-German-ORIGINAL-Documents-DB605-Engine-Me110-G-VERY-RARE-/391441691522?hash=item5b23be3382]http://www.ebay.com/itm/WW2-German-ORIGINAL-Documents-DB605-Engine-Me110-G-VERY-RARE-/391441691522?hash=item5b23be3382]http://www.ebay.com/itm/WW2-German-ORIGINAL-Documents-DB605-Engine-Me110-G-VERY-RARE-/391441691522?hash=item5b23be3382

 

"Bei einem Steigflug mit 110% Motorleistung (Notleistung), der ja bei voller Ausnützung der zulässigen Zeit von 5 min möglich ist, sind die Kühler zu klein bemessen"

 

 

page 5 in "Vorläufige Flugstrecken He 177 A-3/R 2 mit 2xHs 293" - http://www.deutscheluftwaffe.com/archiv/Dokumente/ABC/h/Heinkel/He%20177/He%20177%20A_2%20R_2%20Flugstrecke.pdf

Edited February 20, 2018 by bivalov

[Kurfurst]

Excellent findings, bivalov.

[Sgt_Joch]

Have you considered that the engine was tested for 5 minutes on WEP before delivery because that was the exact time limit?

 

The 1 minute limit only turns up in manuals which have the WEP banned... this is likely because the only 1 minute limit was on the 109E 1,4 ATA rating, which was strictly meant as a takeoff boost for tight places. The normal WEP 1,3 or 1,35 ATA was 5 minutes there as well.

 

well no, I think you are cherry picking documents to suit your argument. Some documents state no limits whatsoever, while other documents, like this one from feb. 1944 still show the 1 minute time limit for 1.42 ATA:

 

Since the DB60xx engine in the G is essentially the same basic design as in the F, with the same boost, low octane B4 fuel and cooling system, there is no reason why the 1.42 boost limit would not be the same.

 

If you really want to win that point, find an official LW document that states black and white that the limit is boosted to 5 minutes or removed entirely.

[Corsair]

my last findings for DB 605 A/B -

 

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/WW2-German-ORIGINAL-Documents-DB605-Engine-Me110-G-VERY-RARE-/391441691522?hash=item5b23be3382]http://www.ebay.com/itm/WW2-German-ORIGINAL-Documents-DB605-Engine-Me110-G-VERY-RARE-/391441691522?hash=item5b23be3382

 

"Bei einem Steigflug mit 110% Motorleistung (Notleistung), der ja bei voller Ausnützung der zulässigen Zeit von 5 min möglich ist, sind die Kühler zu klein bemessen"

 

 

page 5 in "Vorläufige Flugstrecken He 177 A-3/R 2 mit 2xHs 293" - http://www.deutscheluftwaffe.com/archiv/Dokumente/ABC/h/Heinkel/He%20177/He%20177%20A_2%20R_2%20Flugstrecke.pdf]http://www.deutscheluftwaffe.com/archiv/Dokumente/ABC/h/Heinkel/He%20177/He%20177%20A_2%20R_2%20Flugstrecke.pdf

The second document download is failing.

 

Regarding the quote, is it for the Bf 110 or the He 177 ?

Either way, it is a first indication that the engine is capable of longer sustain of the Notleistung setting (provided it is also the 1,42 ata rating).

It also underlines the fact that the engine is very dependent on its platform when operating (which is still true today...), and one could not directly transpose directly data from an aircraft to another with the only justification that the engine is the same.

 

Any comparison on 109 and 110 cooling capabilities ? Radiators size ? 

[Barnacles]

I'd use worse words than 'quite bothering' personally

I really feel that for some people this topic is more about balance, and controlling "online meta", rather than a fair and reasonable interpretation and depiction of the aircraft & engine and its capabilities. This is quite bothering...

[Corsair]

well no, I think you are cherry picking documents to suit your argument. Some documents state no limits whatsoever, while other documents, like this one from feb. 1944 still show the 1 minute time limit for 1.42 ATA:

 

This document also mentions the 1,42 ata boost ban. Manuals mentioning the 1,42 ata boost availability state no time limit in boost usage.

 

To be fair this has been brought up several times here. Your document is not a proof that the boost is time limited. It is a proof that the boost ban was still in place at some extent.

The ban lift also came with no indication on boost usage in the considered flight manuals.

Edited January 5, 2018 by EC5/25_Corsair

[ZachariasX]

I really feel that for some people this topic is more about balance, and controlling "online meta", rather than a fair and reasonable interpretation and depiction of the aircraft & engine and its capabilities. This is quite bothering...

So you know then the truth? Or is „fair and reasonable“ something other than that?

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

I remember a Letter which mentioned the Release of 1.42 ata for the Bf110 earlier than the 109, due to the larger Size of Oil Tanks aiding in maintaing lower Oil Temperatures for 1 Minute, this before the Installation of more Powerful Oil Pumps.

For the 109 installation of the improved Engine Lubrication was necessary, thus delaying 1.42 ata release.

[Corsair]

I'd use worse words than 'quite bothering' personally

 

It appears I'm too inclined to use euphemisms. In the end I would as well.

 

 

So you know then the truth? Or is „fair and reasonable“ something other than that?

 

Fair and reasonable would certainly mean no hasty decision; throwing random 1, 5, 3... minutes time limits (& partly and badly justified by the fear of subsequent online behavior, which is in any way hard to predict) when there is really no evidence showing the existence of such following the boost ban lift on 109,  Although I do not consider myself holding the truth I am definitely trying to shed some light on it.

Edited January 5, 2018 by EC5/25_Corsair

[LColony_Kong]

So you know then the truth? Or is „fair and reasonable“ something other than that?

Yes he does know the truth, as should everyone because the evidence demonstrating looser or non-existent limits has been provided in spades.

[ZachariasX]

It appears I'm too inclined to use euphemisms. In the end I would as well.

 

Fair and reasonable would certainly mean no hasty decision; throwing random 1, 5, 3... minutes time limits (& partly and badly justified by the fear of subsequent online behavior, which is in any way hard to predict) when there is really no evidence showing the existence of such following the boost ban lift on 109,  Although I do not consider myself holding the truth I am definitely trying to shed some light on it.

The only thing we do know for sure is what is stated in the manuals plus that players will use any power that they are given, regardless of online or offline (who reads manuals anyway).

 

Let‘s hope we find more documents about how the engines really performed. After all there are great finds here at times. This rather than hearing who absolutely needs another 4 minutes or whatever. I have no doubt that the devs will be interested in good info as well...

[Sgt_Joch]

This document also mentions the 1,42 ata boost ban. Manuals mentioning the 1,42 ata boost availability state no time limit in boost usage.

 

To be fair this has been brought up several times here. Your document is not a proof that the boost is time limited. It is a proof that the boost ban was still in place at some extent.

The ban lift also came with no indication on boost usage in the considered flight manuals.

 

well this is a minor issue that I don't want to get sidetracked on, but there are two kinds of documents from what I can see, "Bedienungsvorschrift", which I understand translates as "operating instructions". These, all the way from 1942 to Feb. 1944 have the 1 min. limit on 1.42.

 

The 2nd set of documents which have no limits at all are of a more general nature.

 

Pilots need a specific set of guidelines to follow, i.e. the time limit is 1 minute, 5 minute or there is no limit. They can't be expected to read between the lines and try to guess what the limit is.

[Corsair]

well this is a minor issue that I don't want to get sidetracked on, but there are two kinds of documents from what I can see, "Bedienungsvorschrift", which I understand translates as "operating instructions". These, all the way from 1942 to Feb. 1944 have the 1 min. limit on 1.42.

 

The 2nd set of documents which have no limits at all are of a more general nature.

 

Pilots need a specific set of guidelines to follow, i.e. the time limit is 1 minute, 5 minute or there is no limit. They can't be expected to read between the lines and try to guess what the limit is.

 

This is a good point and I came to realize it during my research. However:

 

This document is the Flight Manual (Flugzeug Handbuch) of the 109 G-2 from June '42.

http://kurfurst.org/Engine/Boostclearances/DB605A_ban_Jun-10Nov42_G2FzgHB-T6-Full.JPG

 

It also mentions the complete 1,42 ata boost ban (ist blockiert) in the same fashion than in the Bedienungsvorschrift. This information was thus not specific to the Bedienungsvorschrift, despite the more general nature of flight manuals (and it is understandable since such a strict limit would need to be easily available by the pilot on any document).

 

We can then assume that the lack of stated ban and limit in subsequent Flugzeug Handbuch indeed implies the absence of such. To confirm this however, we would need a set of Flugzeug Handbuch AND Bedienungsvorschrift from the exact same plane at the same date - this is currently what I try to find.

Edited January 5, 2018 by EC5/25_Corsair

[JtD]

Pilots need a specific set of guidelines to follow, i.e. the time limit is 1 minute, 5 minute or there is no limit.

No, these times come from German pre-war aircraft regulation where 1,5 and 30 minute power level had to be given for an engine. This is an official designation in the engine specification and has little to do with actual operation. It was, of course, used as a guideline.

These designations were removed in 1938 and replaced with the terms emergency, take off, combat and climb power, and engines developed after that rarely came with the exact pre-war time limits, occasionally even completely without.

The DB600 series was developed pre-war, and, as has been mentioned already, in the Bf109E with the DB601 came exactly with 1, 5, 30 minutes power settings. After that, these designations and the limits were removed and, as fast as bureaucracy works, replaced with the other designations and limits.

 

Anyway, feel free to present a single Bf109 with DB605 manual of any sort that gives a 1 minute limit to a cleared Notleistung. We've seen five that don't.

 

And at any rate, I don't think that pilots need timed limits, they use what they need and as little as possible. Simply out of self-preservation.

Edited January 5, 2018 by JtD

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

Well, in the Stuka the expected (90% lost to whatever cause) Lifetime dropped from 24 Months in 1940, to less than 8 in 1943. Since the Engines mostly didn't live long enough to wear out, why lower the Confidence of the Pilot in his Machine unnecessarily? In 1944 Production also had reached such a Level that new Aircraft were in more ready Supply than Pilots.

 

The main Problem of the 605 was the Switch from Ball and Roller Bearings in the 601, to Plain Bearings in the 605.

The old Oilpump simply couldn't provide sufficient Oil Flow and Pressure at High Power and Temperatures.

After the Oil Pump Problem was fixed, the longevity was the only a Function of Air Intake and Fuel Issues.

[LColony_Kong]

Well, in the Stuka the expected (90% lost to whatever cause) Lifetime dropped from 24 Months in 1940, to less than 8 in 1943. Since the Engines mostly didn't live long enough to wear out, why lower the Confidence of the Pilot in his Machine unnecessarily? In 1944 Production also had reached such a Level that new Aircraft were in more ready Supply than Pilots.

 

The main Problem of the 605 was the Switch from Ball and Roller Bearings in the 601, to Plain Bearings in the 605.

The old Oilpump simply couldn't provide sufficient Oil Flow and Pressure at High Power and Temperatures.

After the Oil Pump Problem was fixed, the longevity was the only a Function of Air Intake and Fuel Issues.

For two reasons:

 

One, as the spit manual states, the limits weren't intended to be viewed as rigid limits. They are there to make sure people weren't using such power nikly Willy without good cause.

 

Second, engine life's were much shorter. IIRC engine life on 150 octane mustangs and water injected 109s was only like 12-25 hours or something. If you had pilots using WEP constantly outside of combat your plane might only last 3 missions instead of 6.

 

 

The issue here is that the perceived interpretation of these limits is different from the intended purpose. Which is why I said in my first post that even talking about these times as failure times is an exercise in absurdity

Edited January 5, 2018 by Fumes

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

Simple Reasons for not using Full Power unnecessarily is Fuel Consumption. You don't get very far on Jeremy Clarlson Powaaaah.

[Kurfurst]

This might prove interesting.

 

[LColony_Kong]

Simple Reasons for not using Full Power unnecessarily is Fuel Consumption. You don't get very far on Jeremy Clarlson Powaaaah.

Yep that's another reason too why there should be less concern about people flying at wep all the time in game

[Kurfurst]

Lets play - find any time limitation on the original engine card!

 

[Kurfurst]

well no, I think you are cherry picking documents to suit your argument. Some documents state no limits whatsoever, while other documents, like this one from feb. 1944 still show the 1 minute time limit for 1.42 ATA:

 

 

 

Apparantly the document you have posted is the Bedinungvorshrift for the G-4/R3 and G-6/R3 recce variants. These had the MGs removed and replaced by oil tank for long range oil consumption, and two large 300 liter drop tanks under the wing. I.e. this plane. https://www.lfmodels.com/images/koramodels/pictures_kora_models_KPK7226.jpg

 

Now, I think I do not have the Bedvschrft. for this one, but I do have the FlzHb (no ratings), which is Stand November 1943 / Aufgabe Februar 1944, meaning that it reflects the state as of November 1943 but was issued as of Feb 1944. Its very likely the Bedinungsvorschift was issued at the same time as the Williams site likes to use the later date of the manual, and the recce versions and ignore the fighter manuals to supportup with a hoghwash theory that the 1,42ata rating was still uncleared in 1944 even though it was changed in all other manuals, present in meetings transcripts (http://www.kurfurst.org/Engine/Boostclearances/DB605A_GLmeeting_September1943.html ) etc. - which are of course not listed on that site, but we all know why this is so.

 

In any case, my guess is the that either the G-4/R3 and G-6/R3 manual just missed the update, or were amended with "cover sheets" later (Deckblaetter, as was known), or they had for some reason (long range variant..?) different ratings than fighter versions. I guess looking at the whole Bedinungvorshrift could tell instead of the usual snippets from which even the date cannot be ascertained...

 

Since the DB60xx engine in the G is essentially the same basic design as in the F, with the same boost, low octane B4 fuel and cooling system, there is no reason why the 1.42 boost limit would not be the same.

 

As for the 605A, it was very closely related to the 601E but it was a different engine on major points. Bearings changed, lubrication changed etc. Cooling and fuel was never a problem anyway.

 

If you really want to win that point, find an official LW document that states black and white that the limit is boosted to 5 minutes or removed entirely.

 

Already did, please see Post. No 17 (https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/33381-db-605a-1-142-ata-wep-duration/?do=findComment&comment=556097) and subsequent posts.

 

Since the DB60xx engine in the G is essentially the same basic design as in the F, with the same boost, low octane B4 fuel and cooling system, there is no reason why the 1.42 boost limit would not be the same.

 

If you really want to win that point, find an official LW document that states black and white that the limit is boosted to 5 minutes or removed entirely.

[Sgt_Joch]

 

 

If you really want to win that point, find an official LW document that states black and white that the limit is boosted to 5 minutes or removed entirely.

 

Already did, please see Post. No 17 (https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/33381-db-605a-1-142-ata-wep-duration/?do=findComment&comment=556097) and subsequent posts.

 

 

 

fine then, present your evidence to the Devs so they can make the appropriate changes.

 

They still have the G4 listed with a 1 minute limitation for 1.42 ata boost.

[I./ZG1_Radick]

then the 190 should also receive this advantage

[Panthera]

Pretty surprised there are still people argueing against all the overwhelming evidence proving there never was any 1 min time limit, or any hard limit for that matter. Only guideline (and I stress the word 'guideline') listed so far for 1.42ata cleared engines is 5 min. 

 

Case is closed solid in my book.

Edited January 5, 2018 by Panthera

[Sgt_Joch]

Pretty surprised there are still people argueing against all the overwhelming evidence proving there never was any 1 min time limit, or any hard limit for that matter. Only guideline (and I stress the word 'guideline') listed so far for 1.42ata cleared engines is 5 min. 

 

Case is closed solid in my book.

 

well no, I did not want to get into this, since the Devs have made their decision, but you are wrong there is no "overwhelming evidence".

 

do you want to know what the "time limit on use of ata 1.42 in the G2, G4 and G6 was until at least october 1943"?

 

simple : ZERO. it was blocked.

 

If you want to be "historically accurate", the G4 and G6 would be blocked at ata 1.30 like the G2 in BOK.

 

the June 1943 "operating instructions" handbook on the G2, G4 and G6 is crystal clear, the time limit is 1 minute, but no wait, it is actually ZERO since use of ata 1.42 is forbidden:

 

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/me109/BF109_G-2-4-6_Bedienungsvorschrift_June43.pdf

 

why it was ZERO was well known, pistons burning through (which seems to have been mostly solved by 1943), bearing failure leading to loss of oil pressure and destruction of the engine, which seems to have been solved by sept. 43, based on  conference minutes with Goring.

 

so no, the "overwhelming evidence" is that ata 1.42 should be FORBIDDEN in BOK since it was prohibited by the LW until at least oct. 1943.

 

now this is academic since the Devs have allowed the use of 1.42 on the G4 and no doubt will with the G6, but that has more to do with with pleasing the customer base than out of any strict historical accuracy.

 

I have no doubt that this will also eventually be relaxed further, but again that is to please the customer base, not out of any strict historical accuracy, since the historicaly accurate thing to do would be to block ata 1.42 completely on all G series 109 in BOK .

 

you guys are getting what you want, so spare me the pontifications about overwhelming evidence that the time limit was on ata 1.42 was actually 5 minutes or unlimited. The fact is that it was ZERO.

Edited January 6, 2018 by Sgt_Joch

[Venturi]

Pistons burn through from detonation.

Main journal bearings are ruined from detonation.

 

The problem is that the Germans were, except for rare circumstances, limited to 87octane B4 fuel, and were operating at the very limits of what boost levels this fuel would support when the Compression Ratio of the DB605 was bumped up from that of the DB601. Additionally, the larger diameter of the piston tops meant that more non-uniformity of fuel ignition resulted in greater likelihood of detonation as compared to the DB601.

 

By automatically over-enriching the fuel/air mixture when at full throttle (1.42ata = 20.874 PSI = 42.5" Hg = 1080mm Hg), detonation was retarded. This over-enrichment is not optimal from an absolute power point-of-view (the ignition is not as complete - hence the soot), but the minor power loss was obviously worth it to retard the onset of detonation...

It is instructive to note, that the limits of the boost available to the DB605 (42.5" Hg) due to detonation, are very close indeed to the published limits of boost at WEP for the Allison V-1710-39 (44.5" Hg) -- even though the Allison used effectively 130 octane fuel, not 87 -- and also had a lower compression ratio than the DB605.

Edited January 6, 2018 by Venturi

[Dakpilot]

I also believe from what I have read that the British spec 'high octane' fuel was slightly higher than US fuel, it was in areas that used this fuel where higher MP used were more common

 

The DB605 had to run at considerably more retarded ignition timing to avoid detonation compared to DB601, and by DB605 era German oil quality was also suffering due to supply issues

 

Cheers, Dakpilot

[Corsair]

so no, the "overwhelming evidence" is that ata 1.42 should be FORBIDDEN in BOK since it was prohibited by the LW until at least oct. 1943.

 

you guys are getting what you want, so spare me the pontifications about overwhelming evidence that the time limit was on ata 1.42 was actually 5 minutes or unlimited. The fact is that it was ZERO.

 

 

Fortunately the time frame is probably not what you may suggest it is.

 

Firstly because flight manuals mentioning the boost ban lift and no time limit were issued in October, but written in August; depicting the technical reality of the moment (Stand August 1943 literally means 'as of August 1943').

 

Secondly because literature suggest a technical directive lifting the ban as soon as 8 June 1943 (W. Radinger, W. Otto, Bf 109 F-K, Development, Testing, Production).

 

This suggests a ban lift around summer 1943, and not as late as you suggest. Better analysis would be welcome from you instead of jumping to conclusion.

 

Personally, I would be fine with BOTH the depiction of the boost ban AND the boost ban lift from summer 1943, through an in-game engine modification (in the same fashion as on the La-5F modification).

Edited January 6, 2018 by EC5/25_Corsair

[JtD]

With technical order DB 30/43 the ban was lifted in early June under the condition of fitting of a oil pressure maintenance valve and a fast running oil pump. End of June it was confirmed that the oil pressure maintenance valve had been distributed and should have been installed. In July the lift of the ban was cancelled, because the fast running oil pump was not going to be installed, but a larger oil pump was supposed to be used instead in the future. In August, however, it was said that the TO 30/43 was still valid.

 

All in all unless you specify what day of the year you're talking about, unless you know what details which engine had and unless you can find out what which mechanic did in the field, you won't have a conclusive answer.

[Kurfurst]

IIRC the DB technical paper of releasing 1,42 ATA was issued 8th June 1943.

 

They might have been delayed updatating the manuals (especially since some of the planes were already out of serial production, it was almost only G-6 produced by then) and have issued just short memos to the units. They might have waited until about September to run a couple of additional tests.

 

In any case, releasing a G-4 that is exactly the same thing as the G-2 you already have (as their only difference IRL was the radio type) does not make much sense.

 

Thirdly the Kuban bridgehead was not even cleared until mid-October so 1,42 ATA G-4s are hardly ahistorical in the Kuban just because Soviet historians in the Hrucshev Era deciced that the Kuban Battle was suddenly over in June 1943 despite the Germans still very much in the game there, and because their phasing of the GPW follows with the ‘Battle of Kursk’ in July.

 

But that’s kinda offtopic is it not.

[Max_Damage]

I think most of you dont understand what 1 minute in game means. It actually means 1 minute + a random amount on top of it. It can be 3 minutes before you take damage and it can be 5 minutes too. On average it will be somewhere between 3 and 5.

Edited January 6, 2018 by Max_Damage

[Corsair]

I think most of you dont understand what 1 minute in game means. It actually means 1 minute + a random amount on top of it. It can be 3 minutes before you take damage and it can be 5 minutes too.

I (we ?) know. Did almost twenty tests the past days. It's between 2'15 and 2'30, with very rare occurrences (2) outside it. Very narrow distributed randomness if you ask me.

 

And anyways, this is not the question. Let alone that such a modelling is doubtful (this is valid for other aircraft such as the P-40), this timer is not appropriate on the 109 from the gathered documents.

Edited January 6, 2018 by EC5/25_Corsair

[LColony_Kong]

then the 190 should also receive this advantage

Yes it should. Along with just about every airplane in the game and most future planes.

[Corsair]

IThirdly the Kuban bridgehead was not even cleared until mid-October so 1,42 ATA G-4s are hardly ahistorical in the Kuban just because Soviet historians in the Hrucshev Era deciced that the Kuban Battle was suddenly over in June 1943 despite the Germans still very much in the game there, and because their phasing of the GPW follows with the ‘Battle of Kursk’ in July.

 

But that’s kinda offtopic is it not.

 

In addition to this, this screenshot - https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/uploads/monthly_12_2017/post-13-0-58181000-1512665996.jpg - of BoK career mode shows operation as late as october.

 

The boost ban lift that was issued from summer 1943 would then be perfectly in place in BoK for G-2, 4 and 6. I personally believe it would be best featured as a plane modification (as I explained above, like the La-5's engine mod M-82F).

Edited January 6, 2018 by EC.5/25.Corsair