Would you rather have a new Battle of X that follows BOM and BOS(plane capabilities) or would you like something new?

[Dakpilot]

Comparing Kuban and Kursk, which map was more popular in original IL-2?

 

I think the overwhelming favorite was Kuban?

 

Benefits of Kuban:

 

Ships

 

Torpedo bombing

 

amphibious aircraft

 

Mountains

 

Original planeset usable due to longer campaign, mid 42- late 43

 

Popular Lend lease A/C - Spitfire MkV - P-39 -A-20

 

Inclusion of Slovakian, Croatian and Romanian air units

 

anything else?

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Maybe I am too picky, but if I had to make a choice for my company in this same situation I would probably still go with a couple more Eastern Front battles.

 

I know I have no access to any of their marketing research, but what can be seen from just checking the stats for the RU and EN forums is that the Russian forums have more active users and way more posts too. Flight simulation and aviation culture is way bigger and more widespread in Russia than it is in most of the world. Case in point, back when I lived there I was approached by an acquaintance I spoke to rarely, we started talking about games and the two first titles he mentioned were League of Legends, then Il-2 'Shturmovik' (as a side note I have no idea why did the title come out as Sturmovik in English). It is possible that whatever gains from delving into the Western Front this early will be offset by losses in the Russian community. You have to keep in mind that over there people are fed up of Western school textbook depictions of the war where the Eastern front is "Stalingrad happened, sure, wild and bloody and all, now moving on to the important stuff that actually won the war: D-DAY!"

 

Perhaps I am looking too deep, but anyhow, my main reason for this is that if there is one edition out for the Med, one for the Pacific plus two for the Eastern Front, things don't add up as much as they could. While this gives people a peek into the scenario, I think to flesh out a war in its full colours a theatre has to be expanded significantly. Perhaps not from the beginning to the end, but at least a good part of it. That way customers can really enjoy the experience and go from Moscow to Kursk, Kuban or whatever else, then go from the Desert Air Force operations to Malta or Operation Torch then  Italy and so on.

[Dakpilot]

Another benefit of 'fleshing' out the East first, is that enough 'Mediterranean' aircraft will/can be present with lend lease aircraft, So that to launch a proper 'Battle of' Med scenario, it would also be 'fleshed' out from the start, even with the '10 aircraft' format release

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[TP_Jacko]

Comparing Kuban and Kursk, which map was more popular in original IL-2?

 

 

For myself I would say Kuban I can't remember Kursk I guess it would have veen very flat and green

[Asgar]

i'm happy as long as we see the Me 410, Hs 129 B-2/3 and the He 177 at some point. I think that fleshing out the Eastern front before moving to another theater is also a good idea.

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

For myself I would say Kuban I can't remember Kursk I guess it would have veen very flat and green

 

The flattest and greenest

 

 

Here's Gelendzhik, Kuban, for comparison:

 

[Blitzen]

The Med- before the modders at ATAG do it for CloD.It would require a Brit plane or two tho.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

If they want to just make money it will be either Kursk or Kuban. If they want to make a ton of money and expand their market it will be North Africa or the Med. I am all for expansion and odd aircraft (if you guys get the fly able Ju52 and Po2 I'm gonna throw a tantrum til I get a DC3 and PBY).

 

They do not, yet, have the margin to do such things. Read between the lines. If tanks took any sort of resources they would not have made it out of a proposal roundtable. Aircraft ALL take Dev resources. I do hope to get the odd ducks and wayward campaigns but for the moment the shiny things sell and I'm OK with that. It puts money in the coffers for the odd and interesting down the road.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Another benefit of 'fleshing' out the East first, is that enough 'Mediterranean' aircraft will/can be present with lend lease aircraft, So that to launch a proper 'Battle of' Med scenario, it would also be 'fleshed' out from the start, even with the '10 aircraft' format release

 

Cheers Dakpilot

I think the opposite. I want the Med to seem really fresh when we get there. I would prefer the lend lease stuff is in the East but limited to just a couple of AC types (Hurricane, P-39, A-20). That way when we get to the to the sea all of the aircraft and landscape is a huge WOW factor for the Western market.

 

This refined engine, optimized graphics and a plane set with Spitfire, P-38, early P-51, G6, (etc etc etc) will be a stunner. The Western gaming press will spread the gospel and positively affect sales.

[6./ZG26_McKvack]

Kuban map with a Fw-200 to attack ships would be a blast!

 

Alse we already got the He-111 H6 which can use torpedos so the 111 could be used there as well.

 

If I recall correctly the Ju-52 was also heavily used in Kuban, transporting new troops to the frontlines. That would be something

[Dennis_Nedry]

I just feel like Kursk is coming up next especially with the tanks.

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

McKvack, was the Fw-200 used in the Kuban for strike roles though? I thought it gradually went to full transport in the Eastern Front in 1943 or so. The He-111H-6, Ju-88 and the Ju-290 had probably superseded it by then, no?

 

The Ju-52 however was there in force.

Can't wait to jump on the German TS channel and call out "vnimanie, ya Sotka, poedu na rabotu!" (this is 100, going to work)

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

I think it was reported they will focus on single and twin engine AC for the moment. They can do four engine stuff but it requires a lot more design and in-game (graphics/memory/AI crew) resources.

Edited November 10, 2015 by [LBS]HerrMurf

[6./ZG26_McKvack]

McKvack, was the Fw-200 used in the Kuban for strike roles though? I thought it gradually went to full transport in the Eastern Front in 1943 or so. The He-111H-6, Ju-88 and the Ju-290 had probably superseded it by then, no?

 

The Ju-52 however was there in force.

Can't wait to jump on the German TS channel and call out "vnimanie, ya Sotka, poedu na rabotu!" (this is 100, going to work)

 

I am not sure but if I recall correctly they were used as recon to spot the big amount of soviet ships then call in U-boats and friendly planes(just like in the northern sea) but they could still attack the enemy ships with bombs(not sure if it could carry torpedoes). The Soviets did have a superiority in ships but they lost thanks to Luftwaffe and the Fw-200 and especially He-111 played a vital part.

 

Then again I could be completely wrong here 

 

I think it was reported they will focus on single and twin engine AC for the moment. They can do four engine stuff but it requires a lot more design and in-game (graphics/memory/AI crew) resources.

 

I understand that but I still hope for at least the 3-engine Ju-52 and 4 engine bombers in the future. I mean they have done it before so I guess they can do it again

[Reflected]

Yes, I would prefer to have a Battle of X follow BoM.

 

Replace the X by Marianas, Solomon Islands, Italy, Kursk, etc...

Edited November 10, 2015 by Reflected

[Luger1969]

Hi guys.

A few months ago there was screenshots of a Murmansk map i think taken from the russian forum? Did anything surface☺ on that again?

What i also find interesting is that with 1 or 2 exceptions the Kuban/Kursk planeset as some posts in the forum proposes look reasonably the same. For example variations is a20 vs il4. I am not really an expert but both kuban and kursk will only be 1 map/season? So why not 1 map with the 10 aircraft set and the other map with a smaller set namely the special requests that i have seen ju52...po2 etc.

Edited November 10, 2015 by Chandalier1969

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

Hi guys.

A few months ago there was screenshots of a Murmansk map i think taken from the russian forum? Did anything surface☺ on that again?

What i also find interesting is that with 1 or 2 exceptions the Kuban/Kursk planeset as some posts in the forum proposes look reasonably the same. For example variations is a20 vs il4. I am not really an expert but both kuban and kursk will only be 1 map/season? So why not 1 map with the 10 aircraft set and the other map with a smaller set namely the special requests that i have seen ju52...po2 etc.

 

I believe the individual who was working on Murmansk is no longer working on that project.

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

The Murmansk map is currently on hold since one of the main developers had to take time off for personal reasons. However, he passed all his data onto the rest of the team so they can go on with it whenever the opportunity presents itself.

 

I'm not sure how similar the Kuban/Kursk plane sets are though. If they work on a 1942 to 1943 Kuban, that means I-153 too in which Klubov went down in flames, only to recover, join 16 GIAP and become deputy to Pokryshkin's squadron (I think it was 3 Eskadrilya, anyone can confirm that?), gathering 31 individual plus 19 shared victories.

 

If they follow the current format we should probably see the P-39N, I-153, Yak-7B or Yak-1B as Soviet fighters for Kuban. That covers late 1942 into mid-1943 if you throw in the BoM/BoS planes, allowing for one extremely long campaign with lots of stages. Then that allows for Kursk to get the hot-shots everyone wants.

 

A complete Kuban plane set (if following the current format) could possibly be:

 

VVS

P-39N/I-153/Yak-7B

Il-2/A-20

 

Luftwaffe

Fw-190A-4/IAR 81/?????

Hs-129B-2/He-115

 

Then for Kursk there can be:

 

 

VVS

La-5F/Yak-9 or Yak-1B/late-series LaGG-3

Il-2M/Il-4

 

Luftwaffe

Bf-109G-6/Fw-190A-5/?????

Ju-87G/Do-217

 

I have a couple of doubts about these of course - mainly if to put in a Spitfire in Kuban or not considering they didn't last long there, and what third fighter to include in either. However, if the 3rd fighter is missing that makes room for a Ju-52 and other goldies.

[TheElf]

<Sarcasm on>

 

I don't care which Battle comes next, as long as we get more Yak, La, Stuka, and 109 variants.  What would REALLY be nice is another 2 years of map development that leads to seasonal maps of another region of Russia.  That is what this franchise needs!

 

<Sarcasm off>

[Asgar]

Well. with the available modifiactions the Ju 87 G already available. (the BK 3,7)

I would love to see other planes that can accommodate the ground attack role (Me 410 or HS 129)

[CheeseGromit]

I would love to see other planes that can accommodate the ground attack role (Me 410 or HS 129)

 

That's what I'd like most as well, preferably Hs 129 if we're continuing with just one ground attack plane per 'expansion'. My limited internet search of operational of history suggests that would mean sticking with the Eastern Front or moving to North Africa. Given a choice I'd probably prefer the later.

 

A lot of my interest now revolves around the tank side of things as well. So I'll see what that brings when officially annouced.

[LukeFF]

 

 

I am not sure but if I recall correctly they were used as recon to spot the big amount of soviet ships then call in U-boats and friendly planes(just like in the northern sea) but they could still attack the enemy ships with bombs(not sure if it could carry torpedoes). The Soviets did have a superiority in ships but they lost thanks to Luftwaffe and the Fw-200 and especially He-111 played a vital part.  

 

Then again I could be completely wrong here 

 

You're wrong.  

[IckyATLAS]

I would be for a change of theater altogether. BoG for me. Battle of Guadalcanal. USA vs Japan. I know that our russian and german friends may miss their homeland or their historic battles, but we deserve some vacation in the Pacific Islands.  And believe me the pacific islands scenery is also very beautiful. Fighting in the mist of a fleet of cruisers, destroyers and battle carriers shooting all they can, torpedoing ships skimming the waves, and landing on battle carriers at night, all that is an adrenaline rich experience.

[TheElf]

I would be for a change of theater altogether. BoG for me. Battle of Guadalcanal. USA vs Japan. I know that our russian and german friends may miss their homeland or their historic battles, but we deserve some vacation in the Pacific Islands.  And believe me the pacific islands scenery is also very beautiful. Fighting in the mist of a fleet of cruisers, destroyers and battle carriers shooting all they can, torpedoing ships skimming the waves, and landing on battle carriers at night, all that is an adrenaline rich experience.

 

only one season to map here...just sayin...

[6./ZG26_McKvack]

You're wrong.

But am I correct about the 111 taking part with torpedos? Pretty sure Luftwaffe had many operations in the black sea

[Juri_JS]

But am I correct about the 111 taking part with torpedos? Pretty sure Luftwaffe had many operations in the black sea

Parts of KG 26 equipped with He-111H6 torpedo bombers operated in the Black Sea area in 1942.

[III/JG53Frankyboy]

Kuban for me:

Hills, Sea just one of my favorite maps in old IL2 times

 

L&L planes like Spit V, P-39 , A-20

Torpedobombers He111 and A-20

 

 

PTO, well, at least in the COOP onlines wars it was not the most favorite Scenario for the Players, at least the axis ones

in VOW we had 3 fronts, and the PTO was not flown often in comparison to east and west   (and i AM a PTO fan - built most of the missions :D )

[-NW-ChiefRedCloud]

Maybe I am too picky, but if I had to make a choice for my company in this same situation I would probably still go with a couple more Eastern Front battles.

 

I know I have no access to any of their marketing research, but what can be seen from just checking the stats for the RU and EN forums is that the Russian forums have more active users and way more posts too. Flight simulation and aviation culture is way bigger and more widespread in Russia than it is in most of the world. Case in point, back when I lived there I was approached by an acquaintance I spoke to rarely, we started talking about games and the two first titles he mentioned were League of Legends, then Il-2 'Shturmovik' (as a side note I have no idea why did the title come out as Sturmovik in English). It is possible that whatever gains from delving into the Western Front this early will be offset by losses in the Russian community. You have to keep in mind that over there people are fed up of Western school textbook depictions of the war where the Eastern front is "Stalingrad happened, sure, wild and bloody and all, now moving on to the important stuff that actually won the war: D-DAY!"

 

Perhaps I am looking too deep, but anyhow, my main reason for this is that if there is one edition out for the Med, one for the Pacific plus two for the Eastern Front, things don't add up as much as they could. While this gives people a peek into the scenario, I think to flesh out a war in its full colours a theatre has to be expanded significantly. Perhaps not from the beginning to the end, but at least a good part of it. That way customers can really enjoy the experience and go from Moscow to Kursk, Kuban or whatever else, then go from the Desert Air Force operations to Malta or Operation Torch then  Italy and so on.

 

Well stated ...

 

I just feel like Kursk is coming up next especially with the tanks.

 

Agreed ...

 

Chief

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

I appreciate the East and our Devs but I think they underestimate the impact a Western scenario would have. I think the RU and EU forums are more active for two reasons. First, that community is large and active. That is a good thing. With that said, however, I think the reason the Western forums are lagging is the lack of any Western AC that would appeal to that audience. Bring the plane = bring the pilots = expand the community and cash base. I have a half dozen fellas waiting to fly the aircraft they love and mostly sitting on the sidelines ATM. This game has broadened my appreciation of the fight in the East but BRING ON THE MED!

Edited November 11, 2015 by [LBS]HerrMurf

[Jade_Monkey]

The two main things that i would like to see in the next releases of BoX:

 

• More plane variety, instead of different variants of the same model. I know it's hard to do this for Axis fighters, since they used many variants of the Bf109 and Fw190 extensively.
• More terrain variety, especially regarding height. I would love to see mountains, hills, cliffs, canyons (desert maps?). The all flat terrain of the steppes is getting a bit boring.

Ideally I would love to see a couple of maps on the Mediterranean theater.

[wtornado]

Kuban all the way.

 

I would get my Spitfire.

[74_jim_nihilist]

 BRING ON THE MED!

YEEESSS!

 

or North Africa.

Edited November 11, 2015 by 74_jim_nihilist

[steppenwolf]

I'd rather see more visually realistic DM/collision model for AC and buildings, something like Next Car or Beam. Even WT is doing destructable environments now. Also, new innovation surrounding particle effects and PoV movement(thinking Project Cars helmet camera here) would be nice. Mud on AC and tires and grass that's affected by slip stream...things like that...people at airfields...etc.   

[simplyjames]

I appreciate the East and our Devs but I think they underestimate the impact a Western scenario would have. I think the RU and EU forums are more active for two reasons. First, that community is large and active. That is a good thing. With that said, however, I think the reason the Western forums are lagging is the lack of any Western AC that would appeal to that audience. Bring the plane = bring the pilots = expand the community and cash base. I have a half dozen fellas waiting to fly the aircraft they love and mostly sitting on the sidelines ATM. This game has broadened my appreciation of the fight in the East but BRING ON THE MED!

Yeah its rough to say but true. I know quite a few people who "love ww2 aircraft" and don't know what a Yak is. A b25 or p38 would get them to buy into BoX instantly.

[Redwo1f]

Small studio, not a ton of resources therefore it is most prudent to build on what already exists. I know many want to jump to Med. My suggestion of an expansion blueprint that is perhaps more labor efficient is to go another Russian campaign after Moscow - get Airacobra in and a few other significant aircraft (debatable as to which conflict as there are several good ones that would fit the bill), then jump to....Finnish conflict (get in the Buffalo and utilize many aircraft already in place to that point as well). All this would set the stage eventually for early Pacific down the road (already having the P-40, Airacobra, Buffalo, etc.). To me, this would not be a bad blueprint given resources and plane sets (but this is just my opinion).

Edited November 11, 2015 by Redwo1f

[Freycinet]

Example a german plane-set with Ju-52 that covers transport, dropping paratroopers, medical evacuation, dropping aerial supplies and a F1-156 Storch that can do recon missions, find downed pilots, do special operations, medical evacuations...

 

As a thought experiment I think a new sim with a plane set consisting of the Tante Ju, a Storch, a Gotha glider and hell, why not, a FW-189 thrown in for good measure would be the best and quickest way to run this franchise straight into the ground.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Yes and no. The maps would need a lot of resources but I see no difference between building an La-5 FN as opposed to a P-51B or Spitfire from a design or resource standpoint. Same for building a campaign. Much of the Axis equipment is in place for a Med scenario except some Italian goodies. So, you'd be mostly building allied equipment and ships for both sides.

 

I could see your argument regarding resources until you ventured into Finland which would appeal to a fairly small contingent of simmers, particularly in relation to the popularity of a Med campaign. (See any poll on these forums).

 

Also, really hard to not drop several jokes about venturing into Finland. (See history.....)

[TheElf]

Maybe I am too picky, but if I had to make a choice for my company in this same situation I would probably still go with a couple more Eastern Front battles.

 

I know I have no access to any of their marketing research, but what can be seen from just checking the stats for the RU and EN forums is that the Russian forums have more active users and way more posts too. Flight simulation and aviation culture is way bigger and more widespread in Russia than it is in most of the world. Case in point, back when I lived there I was approached by an acquaintance I spoke to rarely, we started talking about games and the two first titles he mentioned were League of Legends, then Il-2 'Shturmovik' (as a side note I have no idea why did the title come out as Sturmovik in English). It is possible that whatever gains from delving into the Western Front this early will be offset by losses in the Russian community. You have to keep in mind that over there people are fed up of Western school textbook depictions of the war where the Eastern front is "Stalingrad happened, sure, wild and bloody and all, now moving on to the important stuff that actually won the war: D-DAY!"

 

Perhaps I am looking too deep, but anyhow, my main reason for this is that if there is one edition out for the Med, one for the Pacific plus two for the Eastern Front, things don't add up as much as they could. While this gives people a peek into the scenario, I think to flesh out a war in its full colours a theatre has to be expanded significantly. Perhaps not from the beginning to the end, but at least a good part of it. That way customers can really enjoy the experience and go from Moscow to Kursk, Kuban or whatever else, then go from the Desert Air Force operations to Malta or Operation Torch then  Italy and so on.

 

Bolded Text is Completely False.  As of 2011 AOPA reported 224,475 active general aviation registrations on privately owned aircraft of all types.  By contrast in Nov 2010 Examiner.com ran an article stating that general aviation private pilots in Russia totalled around 2,000.  Judging by those numbers I'd say the Aviation culture in the US FAR EXCEEDS that of Russia.  

 

PC in use around the world 2013 in millions :

 

US           310.6                                      UK          54.5

China       195.1                                       Russia     53.5

Japan       98.1                                        France    53.5

Germany   71.5                                        Brazil      48.1

India         57                                           Italy        44.7

 

So do the math.  Which markets, if you were a smart businessman, would you target for your product?

 

If it were me, and I wanted to include as many people as possible I'd open a  front like:

 

China/Burma/ India :   715.3 million PC users (US, China, Japan, India, UK)

South Pacific:             463.2 million PC users (US, Japan, UK)  note: no numbers for Australia/New Zealand

Med:                          534.8 millian PC users (US, Germany, UK, France, Italy)  

Another Eastern front    169.7 million PC users (Russia, Germany, Italy)  No numbers for Romania/Hungary

 

Where would you go?  LOL...Oh by the way, They've captured the Russian Market.  No new growth there.  

 

As far as your personal experience, I am an American, if you'd asked me about the titles I spend most of my time on, the first one out of my mouth would be IL-2 Sturmovik.  So I suppose that means we should expect to see a more Western oriented Battle of XXX, right?

 

Let's try to keep to the facts rather than blindly stating something in order to support your points.

[TheElf]

The benefit of going to a new front would be to open the floodgates to the Western pocket books.  There is a HUGE number (by comparison to the Russian Market) of PC owners and flight sim enthusiasts in the West.  How many of them have stayed away from BoS/BoM because they aren't interested in the Eastern Front?  As unfortunate as that is, it is the most likely explanation for why you see so few people playing it from the West.  

 

Why is the Russian Forum more active?  Hmmm, I wonder?   Probably because this is the best thing that has happened to that tiny little Flight sim community since IL-2 1946, and the Devs are Russian!  Of course it's going to be a hit.

 

The longer this Franchise ignores the West the more likely we are to see stunted growth.  Stunted growth in business = less interest in investors, the people who hold 1CGS's purse strings.  If you think this title is immune to having it's funding pulled given one bad quarter think again...I don't want that.  I love this game.

 

And just because you go to the CBI, Pacific, or Med, doesn't mean you can't grow the Eastern front!

 

P-39, Spitfire, A-20, I-15, I-153, B-25, Hurricane, Bf-109G-4,G-6, BF-110G, FW-190A-4/5, the list goes on, they ALL translate to planes added to the current Eastern Front. 

 

One Battle of XX in ANY front other than the East and you have just doubled your sales.  That is a conservative guesstimate, but totally believable given the numbers, and if you do it intelligently, the planes you use there could be dual purpose on the BoS, and BoM maps.  THEN GO BACK to the east the next release for Kursk/Kuban, or god forbid, release a plane pack that is specifically for the Eastern Front to keep up interest.

 

Link to PC user map of the world

http://www.mapsofworld.com/world-top-ten/world-top-ten-personal-computers-users-map.html

 

Russian Private pilot article

http://www.examiner.com/article/russian-private-pilots-get-new-freedom

 

AOPA Stats

http://www.aopa.org/About-AOPA/General-Aviation-Statistics/Active-General-Aviation-Aircraft-in-the-U-S

Edited November 11, 2015 by TheElf

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

They've captured the Russian Market.  No new growth there.

 

Yes, or not much new growth anyway. While I agree with this and much of your post, I'd be cautious about porting raw numbers over for a niche combat flight sim market. While the potential is there, using raw numbers for your argument is as much tenuous ground as Lucas' argument against. The popularity of every other scenario you posted above would probably outweigh the raw numbers of potential subscribers by going to China/Burma.

 

Edit*

 

I completely agree with your next post after that one and have advocated moving out from the East for a round or two before going back in several other posts (for the same reasons as you).

Edited November 11, 2015 by [LBS]HerrMurf