Developer Diary, Part 40

[FlyingNutcase]

You know, I think it might have been different if Loft&Co acknowledged the issue and admitted it was a mistake on their part. 

...

 

True indeed, that would have been the right thing to have done. But apart from that one point I'm sure most would agree that their PR has been sublime, namely regular quality updates and regular forum activity. 

Edited November 12, 2013 by FlyingNutcase

[Marrond]

Keep in mind it may or may not be directed at you (depending how you're receiving it I guess since when one feels offended by accusations headed toward general audience usually is guilt aswell) - those are answers for some parts of your post that essentialy describe others, keep in mind that outside of first quote I'm using "you" as general term:

 

The issue isn't the problem at hand anymore.

Just because you're trivializing it doesn't mean it's not there. It's there as long as there are people willing to complain about it. Atleast this is how it works in, you know, real world. Unless we're all in the Matrix, cheated by machines.

 

The issue is the repetitive repetitiveness of the same repeating arguments by pretty much the same people over and over and over again.

You know if one side won't step off it will go endlessly. And usualy if you can't convince complainer that issue isn't there trying to fight him is like chasing the wind. But hey, it's your circus and your apes.

 

But some people need to (...) take it to private messaging or whatever

Infact they don't have to. As I've stated before forum is NOT a mutual appreciation society circle. Problem is most people think by going into sarcasm they will calm down the atmostphere they're doing exactly oposite and then got suprised how it turned out. It's like one would expect to put out the fire by pouring gasoline at it.

 

the fact that the previous developer diary's thread has wound its way into this one[...]

Well previous devdiary is directly connected with current devdiary and if it would wound up in previous one we wouldn't see it even mentioned here (and trust me, later in the future there will be propably more people reminding early access issue if something ever goes wrong - pain in the arse customers? Indeed. It still doesn't make children or morrons of them, atleast not more than atleast half of the people from "the other side of the barricade").

 

[...]is giving some people itchy fingers - towards the ignore button.

Great! Let them push the ignore button, stop writing meaningless posts that doesn't add anything to the conflict - and forum automaticaly becomes better place for everyone, both complainers and "hey I just came to say great job"-guys. It's propably best option when one lack social communication skills at basic level.

 

 

Reasumming, where I come from when someone doesn't want to talk about something then well... cpt. obvious strikes back, he doesn't. At all. By guys who consider themselves smart it's called "do not feed the troll". If you want conversation to die simply hang the damn phone instead of fighting for the last word - monologs tends to die rather quickly since conversation requires atleast 2 persons to participate. The fact that issue is comming back is simply because people want it - if they wouldn't, they wouldn't care to answer at all.

 

Out of 7 pages in this thread, 1 is purely from people arguing with each other about case that was settled already and then there are 2 pages of comments to the case like "too late - the WTF-O-meter is already pegged" or "This is just getting silly." (didn't picked it on purpose just random meaningless crap in this thread that for some reason world couldn't live without) - well these guys propably couldn't live without that input, but sadly it's part of the problem too. You don't care? You don't comment. Bam, a better society rises in for a better tommorow. Is funny how in previous devdiary people could call each other children... and they go rampage in that regard themselves.

 

-----

 

Let's do experiment. Lesson 1 of forum interaction. If you want to discuss posters behaviour you will answer to my post. If you agree you will answer that you agree or you won't answer at all - it's not like I require confirmation of any sort. If you don't care - you won't answer either. Therefore this conversation with me will end with silent death.

 

 

You know, I think it might have been different if Loft&Co acknowledged the issue and admitted it was a mistake on their part. When you tell someone your problem but they shut their ears singing "lalalalalala" then you can`t be sure the very same thing doesn`t happen in the future.

 

Honestly, a big PR mistake on their part.

Well infact they indirectly admitted with this devdiary that they're indeed late to the party. It's enough for me but apparently not enough for others. Althought first answers were, well... they could serve as examples to "PR for begginers: What not to do".

 

True indeed, that would have been the right thing to have done. But apart from that one point I'm sure most would agree that their PR has been sublime, namely regular quality updates and regular forum activity.

It's not something uncommon when you visit other places in the gaming industry - it's just how things are supposed to look like in 2013, nothing extraordinary here to be honest. It's great that there are some people that appreciate that though since usually community menagers are the one who will take the beating most of the time. Edited November 12, 2013 by Marrond

[FlyingNutcase]

@Marrond: I don't mean to trivialise anything - it's just that having the same thing said over and over is mind-numbing. I must admit to enjoying the first four pages though. And all your points are fair and well thought out.

 

Anyway, onward and upward to the Friday update.

 

[Eject] <3 

[Pierre64]

Some changes on the Home page today!

With profiles of all the planes available at release...

 

(including an unknown model of Bf  109 G-2 with the fuel access hatch of a Friedrich )

[DD_bongodriver]

I like it, quite a slick presentation.

[I/JG27_Rollo]

The side of the depicted box is following the original IL-2's color scheme if I see correctly - nice touch there.

[Rama]

When both sides stop criticizing other side behavior and focus on argumenting instead, maybe the discussion would be more calm and more interesting for everybody.

Don't you think?

the endless "this isn't the way you should behave" is boring and tiring.

[Bearcat]

When both sides stop criticizing other side behavior and focus on argumenting instead, maybe the discussion would be more calm and more interesting for everybody.

Don't you think?

the endless "this isn't the way you should behave" is boring and tiring.

 

... because it is what it is gentlemen.

 

All this weeping and gnashing of teeth going on as if it is the end of the world or the end of the project is old and way over done and it needs to stop. Call it censorship or whatever but if you have already stated you case googobs of times then you need to just not respond if someone new comes in and repeats either opinion on this issue aNd just let it roll. We get it. The devs get it.. and if everyone in this thread and on these boards does not realize by now what we have here and what's going on and what type of crew we have here.. what type of community we have here and how this is going to roll out then you need to step back and get a clue. We don't have to all sit around the campfire singing Kumbayah.. but we do need to be mindful of what we post, how we post it and how often we post it and where our gas can is at all times because tossing fuel on a fire that is almost dead is not a good look and the firemen are standing by to keep the flames down by any means neccessary. (sorry M.. no dis intended..) 

 

The side of the depicted box is following the original IL-2's color scheme if I see correctly - nice touch there.

 

Yes that is a very nice touch.. and just another reason why pre ordering had it's advantages.. even if early access is limited or delayed a bit. I am so looking forward to the final release of this.

[Zak]

The map that will be offered on the first stages of early access (it'll be 50x50km))
You also can download a high res map - just click here

 

[limeymcscrote]

The map looks nice, but what happens if we fly off the edge?

[ST_ami7b5]

Thanks Zak!

Printing...

[JtD]

Oh, news, almost lost on me since I gave up on the thread. Thanks Zak, looks nice. I was afraid it might just be snow plains, this is much better.

 

What are the atmospheric conditions on the map?

Edited November 12, 2013 by JtD

[DD_bongodriver]

Zak, are all the villages, airfields and roads etc on that map all featured in the alpha?

[Zak]

The map looks nice, but what happens if we fly off the edge?

The plane will be automatically turned for 180˚. I'll check it in case if I'm wrong here

 

Oh, news, almost lost on me since I gave up on the thread. Thanks Zak, looks nice. I was afraid it might just be snow plains, this is much better.

What are the atmospheric conditions on the map?

Yeah, it's not entirely flat but anyway no cliffs here, obviousy For the first flights - clear day.

 

Zak, are all the villages, airfields and roads etc on that map all featured in the alpha?

Yes, red markers - airfields, black stripes near roads are settlements of different sizes.

[FlyingNutcase]

Sweet. I'm sure someone will frame it on Google Maps.  

 

And nice styling. :-)

[I/JG27_Rollo]

Will this map also be a part of the full Stalingrad map later?

[Zak]

There's a funny one on the south called Nagibaevka. If I translated it from Ru to En, that would be something like "p0wning town"

 

Will this map also be a part of the full Stalingrad map later?

Sure, it's been cut off from the rest of the territory.

[JtD]

It's along the Don about 100km to the north west of Volgograd.

[I/JG27_Rollo]

49.364936,43.450813

 

About here?

 

EDIT: slightly updated coordinates...

Edited November 12, 2013 by I/JG27_Rollo

[FlyingNutcase]

Zak, It would be useful to have a scale printed on the map, something like this: https://www.dropbox.com/s/iaz5ymob8byrdl6/Map%20Scale.jpg

Edited November 12, 2013 by FlyingNutcase

[Emgy]

Sweet. I'm sure someone will frame it on Google Maps.  

 

And nice styling. :-)

 

For reference, if you played Cliffs of Dover, 50x50km is roughly Calais to Ramsgate(~53km), then southwest to Shadoxhurst (southwest of Ashford), then heading towards Boulogne and going 60% of the way across the channel.

[Pupo]

to be fair, the map is much more interesting than what i was expecting. Given the massacre of the previous 2 updates i was expecting a flat snow map with an airbase if we got lucky.

 

good job.

[Uufflakke]

Approximately...

 

[HeavyCavalrySgt]

I am interested to see that the airfields are not all identical - I had sort of expected at this stage that there would be one generic airfield that was repeated in different locations.

[thx1138]

The map that will be offered on the first stages of early access (it'll be 50x50km))

You also can download a high res map - just click here

 

 

 

Wow, thanks, What a nice gesture !

 

[AndyJWest]

I've had a quick look at Google maps satellite images, but can't see any traces of airfields now. Then again, most of the settlements seem to have gone too. Or moved: Seversk seems to have shifted to the south bank of the Don, to get off the flood plain I'd think. 

 

I suspect that the area never regained the population it had prewar, and any remnants have been ploughed under, or simply rotted away. You'd probably need a metal detector (and a lot of luck) to  find any evidence of what was going on 70 years ago...

[Volkoff]

We are almost there! Only one week to go! MJ 

[Jokili68]

Someone knows how real WWII maps looks like, of this areal?

German an russian ones?

[BeastyBaiter]

The map doesn't have Stalingrad on it, rage rage rage rabble rabble rabble.

[Rodolphe]

...

 

 

Someone knows how real WWII maps looks like, of this areal?

German an russian ones?

 

This Eastern Europe 1:250,000 FORLOVO NM 38-7 SERIEs N501

 

Map prepared by the Army Map Service AMTT, Corps of Engineers, U.S.Army, Washington, D.C. Compiled in 1953 from U.S.S.R., 1:100,000, General Staff Red Army, 1939-1941.

Names Transliterated in accordance with U.S. Board on Geographic Names.

 

 

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/ams/eastern_europe/txu-oclc-6519747-nm38-7.jpg

 

 

...

Edited November 12, 2013 by Rodolphe

[Uufflakke]

Similar US 1953 map from USSR 1941-1942 map with Stepnoy on it:

 

http://www.wwii-photos-maps.com/armymapservice/Eastern%20Europe/slides/Stepnoy.html

[HagarTheHorrible]

Oh boy !

 

Aren't we going to have fun with the names in online co-op.

 

I'm flying to Zarrago..., Zarra..., Za..........,Zzzzzz....??????  

 

Sod it look for my red flare.

[Rodolphe]

...

 

 

Similar US 1953 map from USSR 1941-1942 map with Stepnoy on it:

 

http://www.wwii-photos-maps.com/armymapservice/Eastern%20Europe/slides/Stepnoy.html

 

 

Sorry but "Stepnoy on Elista" is 385 Km away and south from ZAK's 50x50km map !

[Cybermat47]

That's a beautiful map, Zak. I'm really glad that it's not just an airfield and snow. I'm going to buzz some houses on Tuesday

[=LD=dhyran]

..... don't be too serious guys, it will be great fun to fly around! Its a great video and gives some great impressions whats coming up! Thx Zak

Edited November 12, 2013 by =LD=dhyran

[Emgy]

Oh boy !

 

Aren't we going to have fun with the names in online co-op.

 

I'm flying to Zarrago..., Zarra..., Za..........,Zzzzzz....??????  

 

Sod it look for my red flare.

 

I'm just glad Battle of Britain never made it to Wales. Bwlch-y-sarnau? Eh?

[radio]

Uufflakke you have a very nice side shown us. I don`t know about it. Thank you

[Bearcat]

The map looks nice, but what happens if we fly off the edge?

The plane will be automatically turned for 180˚. I'll check it in case if I'm wrong here

 

I really hope that that is not the case in the final release...

 

That was one of the many things that they got right in IL2.. You fly off the map and the worse that can happen is you get lost because there are no landmarks so you just look at your compass and head back the way you came or miss out on the action or run out of fuel in the wasteland but that plane repositioning thing is just lame lame lame and should not be in this sim.. and this of course is just my opinion. I am certain there are many who feel the need for it but it is really counter immersive and arcade.

 

Mind you .. I'm all in regardless..... but I hope that the team seriously reconsiders this in the final release if this is indeed the case in the beta. So what if people can go off the map and sneak around the back way.. That means that those flying cap will have to do their friggin jobs RIGHT.  Another solution to that problem for those who are worried about it is let the mission builder put time limits on the mission to prevent that .. or set fixed fuel levels ... or set a wall of flak at the back side .. all that can be solved.. Papy Toa had some missions he made for the  99th that you had no choice but to go in one way... and you had to figure it out because if you went any other way you died either going in or coming out... ANYTHING other than turning the plane around. The only thing worse than that (not much worse but worse)  would be if the plane flew off the map and came back on the other side. 

 

I think that sometimes in our quest to stop "cheats" we do more harm than good and this is for me one of those cases. You're flying around and suddenly the universe does a 180... Sorry ... that will SUCK. Someone will always find a way to game the game... It is better to just have a featureless continuing landscape beyond the map borders like IL2 does. If someone even wanted to take the time to use the config file to put a base way out there .. and challenge the pilots in that mission to actually navigate and find their way to the target that would be a great feature.. but flipping you 180 when you go off the map.. or killing your engine when you go off the map or any kind of silly gameboy arcade nonsense like it will not do this product justice... That kind of silliness sucked in WoP and it will suck even more in BoS.

 

I am well aware that if it is indeed implemented that the positives of BoS will out weigh an y negatives.. including that one... but .. why..? Why even put something as gamey as that in this the "sucessor" to IL2..   .. It just seems wrong .....

 

Great map though... so looking forward to this regardless.

[Marrond]

Honestly Bearcat I don't think it's such a big deal as it is right now - afterall we're at 50x50, and in finall it will be MUCH bigger. It's an Alpha and everything is subject to change. Besides I think all depends how it was made in RoF (I've personally never tried to go off map there so I have no idea) - if it was the same way as in IL2 then there's nothing to worry about but if RoF had the same solution then maybe it's just technical limitation. Unless one place objectives near the end of the map noone would experience this anyway

The map that will be offered on the first stages of early access (it'll be 50x50km))

You also can download a high res map - just click here

 

img=http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/uploads/monthly_11_2013/post-7693-0-88899800-1384277428.png

Mmmmm, gotta visit printing office before 19th - gotta check how much I suck at navigation :D Edited November 13, 2013 by Marrond

[Marrond]

Awww too late to edit, hopefuly mod can merge it (unless post under post is not a crime here... and it should be!):

 

Zak from locked thread (not sure if it was mentioned before so apologizing in before if it was):

Multiplayer will be added by the end of the year, I'll keep the exact date thou.

 

Sneak peak at the Christmas Gift!

 

 

 

Edited November 13, 2013 by Marrond