viperrm64 Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 Hi all, Just spent nearly two and a half hours just trying to get a flight of F4's to take off from airfield and fly around with waypoints and land again. I STILL HAVEN'T MANAGED IT!!!! I think someone with a lot more mission building knowhow than me needs to bring out a tutorial of some sort for us "thicko's" . I cannot get to grips with it at all and there are no help files either. It does look extremely comprehensive and impressive though. 1
kendo Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 Hi Viper, are you familiar with the Vanderstok videos for ROF https://www.youtube....dwcfOPdqrrIt1sQ or do you have experience with using the ROF editor? Been trying to set up a basic mission on the Lapino map and get mission integrity error messages when importing the Lapino_All.group template. Don't know if you've tried anything similar on any of the maps? 1
dburne Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 (edited) You can download the ROF Mission Editor manual from the Rise of Flight Website, as I understand BOS uses pretty much the same one. Or if you already have Rise of Flight you can find a copy of the Mission Editor manual in your Rise of Flight directory. Edited February 24, 2015 by dburne
KodiakJac Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 (edited) I would rather have a complex mission editor than no mission editor at all Thank you, 1CGS! Are we able to create RoF style campaigns at this point in time? (I won't be able to spend any time with the BoS ME until this coming weekend) Edited February 24, 2015 by Bucksnort
312_strycekFido Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 Hi all, Just spent nearly two and a half hours just trying to get a flight of F4's to take off from airfield and fly around with waypoints and land again. I STILL HAVEN'T MANAGED IT!!!! I think someone with a lot more mission building knowhow than me needs to bring out a tutorial of some sort for us "thicko's" . I cannot get to grips with it at all and there are no help files either. It does look extremely comprehensive and impressive though. http://riseofflight.com/en/community/usefulmaterials/lessons its not that hard
No601_Swallow Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 Yeah. I'm just getting "acclimatized" to how it goes, but I do think that once you've got used to how things work (like loading the map and then loading "templates" of landscape objects (and other things) onto the map before you then go on to place your objects, etc) - once you've got used to all that, I think it'll be pretty straightforward. Looks powerful too - lots of tabs for things like "spring" and "summer"! Lots of AI behaviour attributes (or whatever they're called) to be explored. I do think it's "sort out the basics" and then the rest becomes straightforward. I'd like to recommend yet another RoF walkthrough by Tangmere's own (!) Prangster from here. He goes to some length to hold your hand through the setup phases.
Yakdriver Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 that software aint fun at all.i placed some caponiers and a sturmovik. made it the player sturmovik.20+ minutes to figure that out.had i red the book, it woulda taken me an hour.for a bunch of tents and a solo plane.Full Mission builder THIS!! ..siriously...ah well.another program i am too dumb to use. 1
89- Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 (edited) I dont get it... They were delaying all this time - I thought they were working on a new user friendly editor. But they simply released ROF editor whose unnecessary complexity was discussed to death last year and year before last! Is the friendly editor still in the works, or this it? What was the point of waiting this long if it is just a ROF editor with BOS map and units? (Yes, yes, units have different logic, but surelly devs themselves used the editor to make their missions. Why the long wait for this?) PS Just loaded it up myself - yep, looks identical to ROF with its "create linked entitity" etc logic Edited February 24, 2015 by 89-
Jason_Williams Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 I dont get it... They were delaying all this time - I thought they were working on a new user friendly editor. But they simply released ROF editor whose unnecessary complexity was discussed to death last year and year before last! Is the friendly editor still in the works, or this it? What was the point of waiting this long if it is just a ROF editor with BOS map and units? We never said we were working o a "simpler" editor. We always said the full ME would be based on ROFs. The team has adapted it for BOS from ROF and stripped out any ROF items and fixed bugs etc. Some work remains to do on the ME, but by and large it will remain as it is now. As I have said MANY times, this complex tool and its mission syntax can be co-opted and used in a 3rd Party tool as Lupson has recently demonstrated and as Pat Wilson demonstrated with ROF. This is where the community will show us how it's done. :-) Jason 9
SCG_Neun Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 Lupson is making a pretty nifty utility, no doubt about it...and it looks like the community is stepping up to the task with some of the talent out there.
dburne Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 Ohh to have a PWCG type of campaign for BOS.. drool...
L1A1 Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 Well ... i think it's great, i can get my head round it, and i'm not the sharpest tool in the box ! 1
VBF-12_Stick-95 Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 (edited) Lupson is making a pretty nifty utility, no doubt about it...and it looks like the community is stepping up to the task with some of the talent out there. Link to Lupson's Simple Mission Builder OP: http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/14672-release-simple-3rd-party-mission-builder-bos/?p=234030 Link to latest version DL: http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/14672-release-simple-3rd-party-mission-builder-bos/?p=236584 Unfortunately, SP only. Edited February 24, 2015 by VR_Stick
Urra Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 We never said we were working o a "simpler" editor. We always said the full ME would be based on ROFs. The team has adapted it for BOS from ROF and stripped out any ROF items and fixed bugs etc. Some work remains to do on the ME, but by and large it will remain as it is now. As I have said MANY times, this complex tool and its mission syntax can be co-opted and used in a 3rd Party tool as Lupson has recently demonstrated and as Pat Wilson demonstrated with ROF. This is where the community will show us how it's done. :-) Jason Complex = more options. More potential. Just my opinion.
Jason_Williams Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 Ohh to have a PWCG type of campaign for BOS.. drool...We can have PWCG for BOS. I just need a serious programmer who knows Java and WANTS to take on the task. Pat and I have spoken about it briefly and the possibility is there, but he will need to turn the project over to someone else once it is up and running. Jason 4
BlitzPig_EL Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 Complex = less missions being made. Complex = more frustration for those of us that just want to fly with our friends on our own terms. Complex = only a very few people making missions. Complex simply makes no sense as this tool has been around since the launch of Rise of Flight and the developers still have not seen fit to come up with an easy to understand and use "ME Lite" that would satisfy the vast majority of users. So frustrating. 1
Jupp Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 ~S~ Everyone, Having a Mission Editor beats the hell outta rewriting stock .mis files in Notepad like we used to do in the "Golden Age" of Combat Flight Simulator European Series by Microsoft. Example : [mission]version=0.1title=%title_string%situation=summary=%summary_string%objective=%objective_string%type=%type_string%tip=%tip_string%allegiance=1player_aircraft=3052allowed_aircraft=3052airfield=%airfield_string%date=%date_string%time=07:05map=Map1BoBmap_1=N52 28map_left=W1 38map_bottom=N49 56map_right=E2 29cloud=1visibility=1wind=0pre_video=post_video= [unit.0]id=1001type_id=3052name=%name_string.0%position_lat=position_lon=position_alt=is_player_aircraft=1speed=0skill=0level=0points=0damage=0 That's just the first two sections of an Easter Egg mission file, this one being named team.mi_, because it had all the developers names in it. It was maddening back then, for us to work without even a proper utility, but we did manage, and, learnt about computers to boot! Good times!
Chuck_Owl Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 Complex = less missions being made. Complex = more frustration for those of us that just want to fly with our friends on our own terms. Complex = only a very few people making missions. Complex simply makes no sense as this tool has been around since the launch of Rise of Flight and the developers still have not seen fit to come up with an easy to understand and use "ME Lite" that would satisfy the vast majority of users. So frustrating. This message is addressed not to you in particular, but to those who complain about the ME in general. Good god, people... you have all been told since the very beginning that the mission editor was almost a carbon copy of the one in Rise of Flight. It's not really user-friendly, but it is a powerful tool and it is functional. You just gotta sit down and read the tutorials from the Rise of Flight mission editor (it's the same bleepin' thing). I hate to be the guy saying this, but we should be glad we have anything at all. Start readin' and stop bitchin'. 19
dburne Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 We can have PWCG for BOS. I just need a serious programmer who knows Java and WANTS to take on the task. Pat and I have spoken about it briefly and the possibility is there, but he will need to turn the project over to someone else once it is up and running. Jason Sounds good , at least that gives some hope - thanks for the update!
No601_Swallow Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 Complex = less missions being made. Complex = more frustration for those of us that just want to fly with our friends on our own terms. Complex = only a very few people making missions. Complex simply makes no sense as this tool has been around since the launch of Rise of Flight and the developers still have not seen fit to come up with an easy to understand and use "ME Lite" that would satisfy the vast majority of users. So frustrating. I don't think it's complex. I think it just requires a bit of elbow-grease at the "front end". It's a different tool from IL2's - and thank the bleedin' gods. Yes, for IL2 - and CloD (Don't get me started on the soul-destroying trainwreck of that FMB), it's easy to plonk down waypoints. But that - in terms of IL2 - is quite literally it. You're dependent on timings and testing and tweaking and testing and tweaking and testing and tweaking. What might be "frustrating" for some might be a learning opportunity for others. "Put a bit of work in" might be the best advice to give..
caryatid23 Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 In the abstract when something is complex it may be difficult to do some things, even basic ones. On the other hand, when something is too simple it renders many thing entirely out of the question. There is a great deal that can be done with this editor. Additionally many of those things, some well underway, grant simpler access to many of the editor's features. I'm certain other projects that give a simpler interface will pop up.
No601_Swallow Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 (edited) And honestly, with the quality work that RoF mission designers have done with their tutorials and templates - Day 1 it's a million times easier than, say, Day 1 of Il2 or - Gawd help us - Day 1 of "Erm, why don't these newfangled triggers and actions work in CloD?", followed by Day 10 of "Well, I've finally understood about making triggers work, thanks to a single tutorial in German (Respekt, Kodiak!), but why don't they work in MP? Ad nauseum for the next - what? - 5 years. This game works. It works. The FME works. The Dserver works. It works. And that - in the world of simming is (sadly) an amazing feat there and then. Ooo. I'm angry. I need to take my meds... Edit: In the abstract when something is complex it may be difficult to do some things, even basic ones. On the other hand, when something is too simple it renders many thing entirely out of the question. There is a great deal that can be done with this editor. Additionally many of those things, some well underway, grant simpler access to many of the editor's features. I'm certain other projects that give a simpler interface will pop up. That's so zen, I feel better already! Edited February 24, 2015 by No601_Swallow
ZaknafeinTV Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 (edited) We can have PWCG for BOS. I just need a serious programmer who knows Java and WANTS to take on the task. Pat and I have spoken about it briefly and the possibility is there, but he will need to turn the project over to someone else once it is up and running. Jason But you are 5+ on the market, and now you start looking someone who do this ? I get scared about you. Edited February 24, 2015 by Zaknafein
Jupp Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 ~S~ Everyone, As has been suggested there are already good series posted on Youtube to watch and learn from. This one is very, very good, from a "ROF" pilot. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvN86qjIZV8 <---< Part One to start learning the process. Blue Skies!
SYN_Mike77 Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 From what I've heard the big complaint of IL2 ME was that it was too simple. Easy to use yes, but missing lots of functionality. This ME may be harder to use but from what I understand, it is a very powerful tool. You know, they'd get complaints either way.
IIN8II Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 It just takes a little bit of practice and patience. I have been messing with the editor for a few hours today and I think it fits somewhere in between CloD and War Thunder. I was able to get some pretty cool simple scenarios set up using the Vanderstok RoF tutorials in a fairly short period of time. If you want a real headache try building a mission in WT's editor.... A big thank you to the dev team for releasing the ME. Now just need the f11 camera.
71st_AH_Hooves Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 And here is the best part. People who know what is going on can create "Groups" that can be saved and Downloaded by anyone. So that people who need a little bit more of a hand can Dl place them in the editor and BAM! working mission basics. Its gonna take a few days/weeks but when I was working on things before it made things a lot easier to do between two mission builders, as one could work on one piece and another could work on the other then combine them later.
wtornado Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 I don't care how complex it is I have my editor that is ok by me. You want to see complex try the ARMA 3 editor and all it can do. It would take me 8 hours to make an IL-2 1946 mission with 24 planes and a ton of content plus the historical data planes.matching skins the time of day everything every detail. I hope I can do that with this ME too.
No601_Swallow Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 (edited) And here is the best part. People who know what is going on can create "Groups" that can be saved and Downloaded by anyone. So that people who need a little bit more of a hand can Dl place them in the editor and BAM! working mission basics. Its gonna take a few days/weeks but when I was working on things before it made things a lot easier to do between two mission builders, as one could work on one piece and another could work on the other then combine them later. My squadron's RoF mission builders have often pointed this out. They can and do "borrow" not just, say, scenery "groups" but - for example - whole flights with all their targets and behaviours and loadouts and skins, or triggers with all the associated events and spawnings - from other great missions that people have shared publicly, in addition to building up and sharing their own "libraries" of objects and AI flights and sets of scenery. The future's bright! Especially for those of us (like me) who are a bit, er, "challenged" when it comes to doing the technical or creative heavy lifting in mission design. We can just plagiarise I mean, play tribute by using in our own missions - elements created by generous public mission donors. There's no downside that I can see! Edited February 25, 2015 by No601_Swallow
Yakdriver Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 (edited) Good god, people... you have all been told since the very beginning that the mission editor was almost a carbon copy of the one in Rise of Flight. It's not really user-friendly, but it is a powerful tool and it is functional. You just gotta sit down and read the tutorials from the Rise of Flight mission editor (it's the same bleepin' thing). what the hell am i to do with a powerfull tool if i cannot use it? hello, this 'sposed to be a fun thing... you know, letting my imagination roll a bit, discover the software and put together more and more complex missions. as it stands now, I'll be faster off hacking together XML files a la CFS3. pet peeve: no manual this time either. so what was delivered/shipped? a program with no instructions whatsoever. not even a link to the old instructions. you guys have fun figuring this out. can't be bothered... Is this IKEA or what... Edited February 25, 2015 by Yakdriver
Elbows Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 I think it is definitely intimidating (it took me a while in RoF) but really for simple missions...you learn a handful of things and you're off and running. Now, writing really complex missions...that'll always be tough regardless of editor.
71st_AH_Hooves Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 what the hell am i to do with a powerfull tool if i cannot use it? hello, this 'sposed to be a fun thing... you know, letting my imagination roll a bit, discover the software and put together more and more complex missions. as it stands now, I'll be faster off hacking together XML files a la CFS3. pet peeve: no manual this time either. so what was delivered/shipped? a program with no instructions whatsoever. not even a link to the old instructions. you guys have fun figuring this out. can't be bothered... Is this IKEA or what... Sorry to say but if thats your attitude, then you are going to have a tough time. The RoF manual does a great job as its practically the same editor.
startrekmike Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 Look, considering the fact that there was a very real possibility that we were not going to get a mission editor AT ALL, I think it is fair to say that the one we did get is much better than having nothing at all. I am not saying this to stick up for 1C/777, I am saying this because there indeed was a time when we were not going to get a FMB and that would have meant that BoS would not have a future AT ALL. They made sure we knew exactly what we were getting, acting surprised that it is complicated now makes zero sense. I am glad we finally got it, I hope it's not too late but I am glad we got it. 1
BlitzPig_EL Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 I have tried more than a few times to come to grips with the RoF editor, I watched the tutorials, and well, just gave up. We need a VERY BASIC set of tutorials for the Mission Editor, written by someone that understands that those of us that need a tutorial really don't understand the first thing about the way this thing works. Is that too much to ask? I can get missions up and running in original IL2 in short order, but I can't even get a single aircraft that is flyable working in this thing. I'd love to make missions for my squad again, really I would, but I have a day job and don't need a second one just to have fun... There has to be an easy to understand way to learn this thing. 1
viperrm64 Posted February 25, 2015 Author Posted February 25, 2015 I'm just beginning to get to grips with it thanks to the Youtube link that Kendo put up, it must be easy for any ROF people to get the hang of it but for those of us who don't have ROF it will be a steep learning curve indeed.
startrekmike Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 What we really need is a person who is willing (and able) to do some more in-depth youtube based tutorials. The ones we have are good at learning the most basic of basics but don't really teach you how to keep going. I watched those videos over and over and still found that there was simply not enough real information to go off from. The editor is complex but the real solution is to get some folks who are willing to teach. That will help a lot.
AbortedMan Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 (edited) what the hell am i to do with a powerfull tool if i cannot use it? hello, this 'sposed to be a fun thing... you know, letting my imagination roll a bit, discover the software and put together more and more complex missions. as it stands now, I'll be faster off hacking together XML files a la CFS3. pet peeve: no manual this time either. so what was delivered/shipped? a program with no instructions whatsoever. not even a link to the old instructions. you guys have fun figuring this out. can't be bothered... Is this IKEA or what... Nothing worth doing is easy. In the time it took you to make this post, you could have learned at least 5 things about the editor using modern simple techniques such as Google and YouTube. I'd really like to know what and how it is you expected to be so silver-spoon fed easy. If I can figure it out in a matter of hours, you certainly can do the same. On a more constructive note, here are some various group templates for people to get started... AAA for airfields including a trigger for base capture/switching AAA from German>Russian and vice versa https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/14029139/BoS%20Groups/AAAgroups.rar Base proximity warning for German bases (easily changeable to Russian) https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/14029139/BoS%20Groups/BaseProximityWarningGERMAN.rar Mission clock with staggered notifcations https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/14029139/BoS%20Groups/MissionClock.rar Player spawn counters (good for setting up AI spawns when server is low population, adding more airfields when server goes high population, triggering extra objectives when players leave/join, etc) https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/14029139/BoS%20Groups/PlayerCounters.rar Place these in your \IL-2 Sturmovik Battle of Stalingrad\data\Missions folder and they will show up in the "Groups" button in the editor. These are semi-simple concepts that can be edited and built on based on your preferences. Edited February 25, 2015 by AbortedMan 8
oneeyeddog Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 Nothing worth doing is easy. In the time it took you to make this post, you could have learned at least 5 things about the editor using modern simple techniques such as Google and YouTube. I'd really like to know what and how it is you expected to be so silver-spoon fed easy. If I can figure it out in a matter of hours, you certainly can do the same. On a more constructive note, here are some various group templates for people to get started... AAA for airfields including a trigger for base capture/switching AAA from German>Russian and vice versa https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/14029139/BoS%20Groups/AAAgroups.rar Base proximity warning for German bases (easily changeable to Russian) https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/14029139/BoS%20Groups/BaseProximityWarningGERMAN.rar Mission clock with staggered notifcations https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/14029139/BoS%20Groups/MissionClock.rar Player spawn counters (good for setting up AI spawns when server is low population, adding more airfields when server goes high population, triggering extra objectives when players leave/join, etc) https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/14029139/BoS%20Groups/PlayerCounters.rar Place these in your \IL-2 Sturmovik Battle of Stalingrad\data\Missions folder and they will show up in the "Groups" button in the editor. These are semi-simple concepts that can be edited and built on based on your preferences. Nice of you to share those templates, AM.
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