Developer Diary, Part 81

[dburne]

I hope devs don't change a thing in this unlock system this late in development, i'm really curious how this experiment will work out for sim game

 

I suspect that there will be many, who have stuck with it ever since the beginning, that won't stick around to find out. Granted they already got their money for this first release, but may not get any more from them.

Now perhaps they get enough new blood to replace those that don't and then some, which I guess is what they are hanging their hat on. I am not so sure.

Edited October 5, 2014 by dburnette

[Yakmaster]

if it stays the way it is it will kill it. Most people buy games after they read first reviews. The flight sim fans are the ones who will buy it at release or already have it. they are the ones who will write those critical first reviews. We already know, most flight sim fans are against unlocks, at least in the way they are done now (SP only). There will be loads of bad reviews and that can scare the casual gamer, who 1C hopes to get involved.

 

 

Maybe, but atleast they will know if it works in this type of flying games or not, and future lofts will not try it if it dosent work. On the other hand if it works old simers will have to adapt and buy game ,probably later, as this will be future of flying games

[IckyATLAS]

After two hours of playing the campaign a few comments:

 

No major bugs, like screen freeze or graphical glitches.

 

On the positive side:

 

-Clouds and their structure are superb with light and shadow effect on the ground.

-Lighting, reflections, shadows on the plane in the cockpit and pilot detail and animations, plane structure damage, flame heat effect all is really superb. Bomb explosions, ammo tracers, impacts etc.. very very good. Graphically the game is excellent. I play in 2560x1440 on a 28 inch screen with an Nvidia Titan Black board and the quality is just astounding. An excellent job nothing to say. Extremely immersive.

 

-Plane dynamic behavior is also to me pretty realistic. These are high wing load planes with large engines and a lot of torque. I have the feeling that it is pretty well rendered.

 

 

On the negative side but I suppose it is only a temporary situation:

-formation flying commands do not seem to work well if not at all. The wing mates do have a lot of problems to keep formation and they oscillate a lot which is very unrealistic. Planes have inertia and they cannot oscillate so fast. During battles they do what they want and do not seem to be controllable.

 

-there is very little ground animation on the airfields. Ther are some guys walking here and there but this is I suppose only the beginning. I would like to be able to refuel and rearm. And ther could be some nice animations with guys coming to service the plane. Tanker trucks and bombload or ammunition trucks could arrive to service the planes.

 

-the stukas air brakes and siren does not work but this will be corrected I suppose.

 

-When switching planes externally first the planes are displayed in green base skin and then comes the winter skin if they have it. This is not pleasant as it may take up to 3 seconds the active skin to be displayed and this is strange.

 

-finally the landing procedures with clearances and ordering the planes to land and go to their respective parking places does not seem yet to be working. It is cahotic and plane collisions happen.

 

-I always fly long missions and I would like to be able to have also the parking and taxiing procedures. After all the reality is that the pilot would not jump on his plane on the runway but at a parking place. So when the squadron has to take off there is the taxiing and positioning on the runway, this is part of the flying immersion.

 

-When flying full missions the planes are on the runway ready to go engines running. If I have a plane behind me, he starts moving when I start moving but he does not adapt his speed to my speed, so if I take off more slowly or whatever he just crashes stupidly on me and the mission is gone. This is annoying and sould be corrected.

Edited October 5, 2014 by IckyATLAS

[Jaws2002]

Maybe, but atleast they will know if it works in this type of flying games or not, and future lofts will not try it if it dosent work. On the other hand if it works old simers will have to adapt and buy game ,probably later, as this will be future of flying games

1c already killed a good flight sim with this experiment. no need to kill another one.

[Yakmaster]

But there really hasn't been any argument, yet.

 

An argument consists of two parties explaining their opposing views and trying to make the other party understand their viewpoint.

 

We have seen plenty of views from the community, trying to get the developers to see why the unlock system is a poor decision.

 

Will we see the other side of this argument any time soon?

 

Personally I'm really interested to find out more about why this design choice was made in the first place and how the dev team think it will help increase sales.

 

They think guys on forums are 5-10% of total guys playing game, they made that clear on russian forum, so rest silent 90-95% enjoy game and like it as they dont make noise, so all is good

[Matt]

To be honest, If I were on the Dev team now, I would be VERY UPSET : They planned things, announced things, people were almost silent .... and NOW that the game is almost finished, the player base wake up and ask for changes, One month before release.... seriously 

 

Looks like you became a forum member loooong after people were upset about this idea. This discussion started back in July 2013.

 

And i think the only reason why there has not been even more discussion about this, was the fact that some people believed that these unlocks only count for the campaign mode (even though the devs made it pretty clear, that that would not be the case).

 

 

In any case i'll hope there'll news in the coming week which will make most people happy.

[Krig]

They think guys on forums are 5-10% of total guys playing game, they made that clear on russian forum, so rest silent 90-95% enjoy game and like it as they dont make noise, so all is good

That's hardly the truth. I never post. But I do read plenty. I'm less then happy about this.

 

 

Towel is thrown. I truly hope my cash helped thy won't be here for the long run.

[HBB*Hunger]

Please Zak, please have a look at this campaign system from 1998...

 

 

[3instein]

Well, we're listening, just as always. But of course you don't expect us to do smth significant on the weekend, do you?

 

Please Zak if there are any changes in the works please make expert mode more expert.

 

If I fly expert it is because I want a challenge,not extra XP.

 

In expert mode I shouldn't get big yellow writing telling me to look out for bombers and to go to next waypoint and other "Hints".

 

In the settings I turn HUD off but when I start I have to press H to turn it off again why?.

 

In expert I should not be able to fly level autopilot.

 

I press "O" for in game map and press "I" by accident as they are next to each other and this brings up my plane and enemy's on map,this should not be in expert mode.

 

Also in expert there should not be a "my plane" option in map screen,half the enjoyment flying in expert mode is the challenge of flying in, well, expert, these choices make it not very expert.

 

I am enjoying the campaign so far and with some tweaks it could be so very much better, thanks.

 

Please consider my requests,

 

Mick.

[Yakmaster]

1c already killed a good flight sim with this experiment. no need to kill another one.

 

No simers looking for more hard core flying games destroyed sims acording to them

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/topic/1947-obsuzhdenie-80-j-chasti-dnevnikov-razrabotchika/?p=204918

 

This also answers why in expert you have navigation helps, if they only comunicated that clearly on english forum, more things would be clear

Edited October 5, 2014 by Yakmaster

[Dakpilot]

According to Lee resources how many were silent happy customers  

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[LoneMerc]

Please Zak if there are any changes in the works please make expert mode more expert.

 

If I fly expert it is because I want a challenge,not extra XP.

 

In expert mode I shouldn't get big yellow writing telling me to look out for bombers and to go to next waypoint and other "Hints".

 

In the settings I turn HUD off but when I start I have to press H to turn it off again why?.

 

In expert I should not be able to fly level autopilot.

 

I press "O" for in game map and press "I" by accident as they are next to each other and this brings up my plane and enemy's on map,this should not be in expert mode.

 

Also in expert there should not be a "my plane" option in map screen,half the enjoyment flying in expert mode is the challenge of flying in, well, expert, these choices make it not very expert.

 

I am enjoying the campaign so far and with some tweaks it could be so very much better, thanks.

 

Please consider my requests,

 

Mick.

I agree except one Auto level should stay for a lot of reasons, but simply if you don't want to use it then don't. The option is there, I'm more concerned with things that are not an option or toggle.

[Yakmaster]

That's the problem with assumption.

 

You can't assume anything, you can only act on what you know.

 

I mean, it might be that 50% of people that bought the game don't even know how to post on a forum (apparently gamers are pretty stupid after all, too stupid to set graphics options, for example)

 

In fact it's a oft-quoted statistic in customer service that For Every One Customer Complaint, There are 26 More Unhappy But Silent Customers.

 

According to Lee Resources International, for every customer complaint there are 26 other unhappy customers who have remained silent. This is a profound insight, as it reminds businesses that a good number of customers don’t actually communicate to businesses that they are unhappy — they just leave. As we mentioned in Part I of this series, 89% of consumers abandoned a business for their competition based on poor customer service. Bottom line: don’t assume your silent customers are happy.

 

“We must never assume that which is incapable of proof.” ~Unknown

 

 

That's tragic, like when failed businesses blame the customer for their failure.

 

And that brings me back on why i really want to see how this will work when they are now not counting on sim players to be majority of game base, keep unlocks and maybe game will be success, if it on the other hand fails at least they will not blame sofa players again

[Anw.StG2_Tyke]

No simers looking for more hard core flying games destroyed sims acording to them

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/topic/1947-obsuzhdenie-80-j-chasti-dnevnikov-razrabotchika/?p=204918

 

This also answers why in expert you have navigation helps, if they only comunicated that clearly on english forum, more things would be clear

 

After reading that post with the help of google translate, I only can shake my head and can't wait for the fail of BoS. It is obvious that they comepletly used the wrong road and don't even think about that. They see an audience where simply is none.

[dburne]

They think guys on forums are 5-10% of total guys playing game, they made that clear on russian forum, so rest silent 90-95% enjoy game and like it as they dont make noise, so all is good

 

Pretty sure that is how MS felt about MS Flight as well...

[Dakpilot]

After reading that post with the help of google translate, I only can shake my head and can't wait for the fail of BoS. It is obvious that they comepletly used the wrong road and don't even think about that. They see an audience where simply is none.

 

Think a lot gets lost with google translate.....that post got 57 upvotes!! obviously not unpopular on Russian forum

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[dburne]

After reading that post with the help of google translate, I only can shake my head

 

Just checked that out myself, wow...

[wellenbrecher]

No simers looking for more hard core flying games destroyed sims acording to them

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/topic/1947-obsuzhdenie-80-j-chasti-dnevnikov-razrabotchika/?p=204918

 

This also answers why in expert you have navigation helps, if they only comunicated that clearly on english forum, more things would be clear

 

 

They think guys on forums are 5-10% of total guys playing game, they made that clear on russian forum, so rest silent 90-95% enjoy game and like it as they dont make noise, so all is good

Like I said yesterday:

That's how Gaijin thinks and look where it's been taking them.

And that's how ArenaSoft thought and look what happened with GW2's player numbers.

Microsoft Flight, 'nuff said.

 

Just to name three examples.

[Anw.StG2_Tyke]

Think a lot gets lost with google translate.....that post got 57 upvotes!! obviously not unpopular on Russian forum

 

Cheers Dakpilot

Might be, but take into account that there might be a vast differnece between western people and russian people. As I remember back in WT the Western Playerbase had comepletly different opinions than the russian players.

[No601_Swallow]

Pretty sure that is how MS felt about MS Flight as well...

 

(In my humbles, "Flight" was sunk by a) a ridiculous pay-to-do-anything-while-being-told-it-was-free-to-play nonsense, b) it being touted as a great step forward from FSX when it was just a steaming pile of odure, and c) FSX iteslf being a steaming pile of odure in the first place. None of that applies here, pretty obviously.)

 

Edit: self-censored!

Edited October 5, 2014 by No601_Swallow

[Chuck_Owl]

Seems like this is the kind of simmer they're looking for.

 

[LoneMerc]

I go away for a little bit and all hell breaks out.

 

On the unlocks issue, I have not played yet but I can see how some can be concerned over it, even before I play it I feel I will also be unhappy but I will go through it. It is disappointing to see a good relationship torn down over what maybe misunderstandings or whatever. I too will miss Eagle Nest it was a good sever and for me ping of 10-15 but more importantly it was a admin active server with friendly folks wanting to make it bigger and better who listened to player requests and tried to accommodate. It was cool to have admins around and ask you to join them in a supply run or whatever was going on at the time and chat over server changes and fixes along the way. Right now the server list looks bad for me with no ping readings and some reds that come and go in the 300 range what happened? Even the US servers are bad for some reason, I will check my own stuff here in a sec.

 

I hope cooler heads will prevail in the coming days, I hope there can be some compromise for unlocks on SP vs MP modes. I always known about the unlocks it was right there in front of us and explained talked about before, but also always felt it just did not feel right for a Sim. I feel a system more like limited equipment and resources meant limited hardware for rookies a low ranking or experienced pilots. As you progressed and gained rank and experience you got access to better stuff. This is basically what it's doing now just the word unlocks is bad for immersion and the balance of what's locked and unlocked at start needs to be reworked. There should just be some basic things you should already have as a pilot and not need to unlock, some other things become available as you rank up, better equipment for better pilots. Simple and more focus on rank, experience, xp, medals and ribbons as rewards instead of unlocking items you should have already.

Edited October 5, 2014 by LoneMerc

[Mungee]

Oh dear, this criticism really concerns me!

 

PLEASE BE PATIENT GUYS!!

 

We have a WWII flight sim here that is "setting the bar" - the graphics are mind-blowingly good and the flight models are really challenging!!

 

I LOVE IT!

 

Remember that there's no such thing as a flight sim that will ever be 100% to your liking - if it gets to 80%, that's great!

 

Support the sim and its developers - their communication etc with us has been exemplorary and I'm sure that they'll take note of CONSTRUCTIVE COMMENT!

 

Give them a chance!!

[Yakmaster]

Might be, but take into account that there might be a vast differnece between western people and russian people. As I remember back in WT the Western Playerbase had comepletly different opinions than the russian players.

 

Maybe but that DD80 got locked for few days after 30 pages, to many up vots i guess, simer is simer no mather in what country he is

[Dakpilot]

Chuck The real scary thing about what you posted is that that guy has got

 

Video Views 6,266,348,513

 

No that is truly scary

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

Forcing the player to unlock things as mundane as paintjobs is largely unintuitive and adds nothing but annoyance to the player.

 

But, wasn't this going to be limited to Campaign only? I thought QMB and MP would still have everything unlocked.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

But there really hasn't been any argument, yet.

 

An argument consists of two parties explaining their opposing views and trying to make the other party understand their viewpoint.

 

We have seen plenty of views from the community, trying to get the developers to see why the unlock system is a poor decision.

 

Will we see the other side of this argument any time soon?

 

Personally I'm really interested to find out more about why this design choice was made in the first place and how the dev team think it will help increase sales.

I'm usually with you on your points but this is just about exactly how the Fw cockpit threads/argument and others started.

 

It was all (justified) one sided grievances. Then there was a short reply after several weeks, more grieving (I composed an unpublished rant/nearly abandoned the Fw) and then suddenly the Devs made the change. There was no announcement it was coming, just the sudden change. I'm not sure why it takes so many very loud voices but reason has stood out in the end on a few conflicts here. It just takes time to change tracks/turn the boat/wheel the army. It is about money and passion on their end. When the problem is illustrated they wont intentionally make a decision to sandbag their own game. People hate to be wrong and the devs can be more stubborn than most. In the end, though, they have been reasonably astute about making changes in the interest of continuing the business aspect and legacy of the sim. It is frustrating as #ell they rarely make a direct reply to a perceived issue but it is equally clear they read these posts and listen to what is said here.

 

In short, keep hammering them but be polite. This is a poor business decision. Right now we all see it on this side of the issue. Hopefully they can be made to see it on their side as well. And we all want the d@#n thing to succeed in the end.

[FTC_crash1983]

Everyone who have stuck on 2nd mission with locked VYa23 - to be fixed in thuesday.

what why so  long is there any other way to fix it  before then

[SYN_Lt_Dan]

The unlocks wouldn't even bother me that much as I love SP missions but its boring as hell no mission info no ranks system and the GI lay out looks like something from a space sim not really  a 1940s  air war setting is it.

[Zak]

An argument consists of two parties explaining their opposing views

The game design decision is the message from our studio, it speaks for itself.

Unlocks give you motivation, smth to keep flying for, something rewarding your success. How can it be bad when you're given a bonus every time you reach a certain amount of game experience?

I wish we gave you no unlocks in the first place, but we had to test them and we let you do that.

[Voidhunger]

my motivations are promotion, medals and number of kills. I dont care how much xp  or how many shiny achievements badges i have

[3instein]

The game design decision is the message from our studio, it speaks for itself.

 

 

Says it all really.

 

Mick.

[Anw.StG2_Tyke]

The game design decision is the message from our studio, it speaks for itself.

Unlocks give you motivation, smth to keep flying for, something rewarding your success. How can it be bad when you're given a bonus every time you reach a certain amount of game experience?

I wish we gave you no unlocks in the first place, but we had to test them and we let you do that.

Uehm.... really? I mean, yes rewarding the success of the player is an important thing but I think there is today something wrong in the way of rewarding.

Is it rewarding to get an unlock which could be achieved with x16 and Autopilot? NO IT IS NOT! And NO it don't makes me want to play further!

Is it rewarding to get the Knights Cross after 100 Shot down planes, achieved with a nice cinematic, a formal letter from the Luftwaffe where they thank you and I can read that in the newspaper. Is it rewarding to achiev something, which is really really hard to do so? YES that IS indeed rewarding.

Rewards have to be earned, and that shouldn't be done by simply invest time into something. It should be done by achieve something great and be good in that what you did. Look at the success of Demon Souls, that game is really rewarding the player because he has to do something for progress. And it doesn't need some kind of easy achievments or it throws for you with unlocks.

[KpaxBos]

Locks/unlocks remove all motivation for me. I do not see what is interesting in this mode of game. If at least it was optional and not spoiling all parts of the game

It is my opinion and I agree with it.

 

Have fun.

[HBB*Hunger]

Uehm.... really? I mean, yes rewarding the success of the player is an important thing but I think there is today something wrong in the way of rewarding.

Is it rewarding to get an unlock which could be achieved with x16 and Autopilot? NO IT IS NOT! And NO it don't makes me want to play further!

Is it rewarding to get the Knights Cross after 100 Shot down planes, achieved with a nice cinematic, a formal letter from the Luftwaffe where they thank you and I can read that in the newspaper. Is it rewarding to achiev something, which is really really hard to do so? YES that IS indeed rewarding.

Rewards have to be earned, and that shouldn't be done by simply invest time into something. It should be done by achieve something great and be good in that what you did. Look at the success of Demon Souls, that game is really rewarding the player because he has to do something for progress. And it doesn't need some kind of easy achievments or it throws for you with unlocks.

 

 

+ 1.000.000,00

[Matt]

It would also be rewarding to gain a promoting to advance from wingman to flight leader. Maybe even going further to get promoted to squadron leader and be able to plan missions yourself.

 

There are alternatives to unlocking historical loadouts (and unhistorical skins).

[II./ZG26-dada]

The game design decision is the message from our studio, it speaks for itself.

Unlocks give you motivation, smth to keep flying for, something rewarding your success. How can it be bad when you're given a bonus every time you reach a certain amount of game experience?

I wish we gave you no unlocks in the first place, but we had to test them and we let you do that.

 

Really? The campain is just boring and annoying. The only motivation it gives is to unistall BoS.

[wellenbrecher]

The game design decision is the message from our studio, it speaks for itself.

Unlocks give you motivation, smth to keep flying for, something rewarding your success. How can it be bad when you're given a bonus every time you reach a certain amount of game experience?

I wish we gave you no unlocks in the first place, but we had to test them and we let you do that.

While that works for some people, then why didn't you enable unlocks from flying MP or leave them out of MP altogether?

A large part of the whole opposition here is due to the fact that we're forced by said design decision to play the game in a way that simply does not appeal to a sizeable amount of the player-base.

 

Forcing people almost never ever works out.

[dburne]

It would also be rewarding to gain a promoting to advance from wingman to flight leader. Maybe even going further to get promoted to squadron leader and be able to plan missions yourself.

 

There are alternatives to unlocking historical loadouts (and unhistorical skins).

 

+1 to that!

 

I want to join a squadron, stay with them along with my teammates ( offline) throughout the campaign, along with a good story line. Get recognized and rewarded for my skills, in the form of awards and promotions. Not to unlock airfields or weapons mods, or anything else for that matter.

[Voidhunger]

Starting point is the ROF career mode and you can improve it through the time and than port it improved back to ROF.