Developer Diary, Part 81

[frenchfly]

Is it really that hard to add the ability to add an axis for all trims, flaps and gear for those that have the gear to do so. I thought I would change the topic of complaint

[Anw.StG2_Tyke]

Obviously, 777 NEEDS to implement such things like "unlocks" and "rewards" in BOS. Otherwise, they would not do it it since almost everyone here dislikes  it.

So my question is more like : Why do 777 absolutely need to go that way ? Maybe  its the only ( or best)  way 777 found to ensure BOS viabilty and future development ?

If so , should'nt we support our team ? 

 

Kal

If that is the best way to ensure BOS viability and future devlopment than this game is more than dead... come on...

 

A good and well implemented reward system would be great in a good designed campaign, but Field-Modifications in a generous quick mission based "Campaign" weeellll.... its argueable where the project designer got his qualification...

 

 

 

@frenchfly

No it isn't and we had it that way. But then the Devs thought, it is more realistic and historical accurate when we make it how it was in the planes. Axis for Wheels or leavers and buttons for... buttons.

Edited October 5, 2014 by Auva

[chris455]

 

 

Maybe there could be an option to pay $10-20 more and not have to deal with XP or unlocks?

 

+1    

[DD_bongodriver]

 

 

Maybe there could be an option to pay $10-20 more and not have to deal with XP or unlocks?

 

pay to win?

[Afwastus]

pay to win?

 

 

At this point it is clear a significant number of players hate unlocks and grinding for XP. At the same time the developers feel that unlocks are necessary to attract and entertain mainstream gamers. Furthermore, according to several of the developers there are not enough "flight simmers" to sustain the game.

 

So I am suggesting a compromise, clearly the developers want/need more funding and unlocks are an integral part of their stratergy for the game. Similarly, it should be clear that some of us don't want to have to grind SP. By charging us extra money to skip unlocking, they thus get more money without removing the feature and they don't have to deal with irritated customers.

 

Personally, I paid $94.99 for the game, $10/$20/$30 or more isn't going to make a huge difference for me. Hell, make it a "donation" with a "reward" if it makes it sound better. Let's say if you donate $20 dollars to the developers you get listed as a contributor in some list posted on the forum and to reward your "service" you get full XP and unlocks straight off the bat.

 

Money talks and I am willing to put my money where my mouth is and show that I am more than happy to further support the developers if it means I can avoid a part of the game I despise.

Edited October 5, 2014 by Afwastus

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

Unlikely as none of the upgrades truely makes one perform better vs other players. Infact most "unlocks" such as bombs and rockets for Jabos / close air support fighter bombers ect. don't harm balance in any way.

 

That said I'm not a fan of pay to get instant acess things even with such a disturbing feauture as the current system. I rather hope it to be improved to not create any need for sth like this. Main crtieria is ai behaviour, mission types / layout and overall immersive elements such as proper comms for fighter escorts and bombers flying in formation.

 

As much as I hope to see an MP alternative for "unlocking" (considering you can use autopilot to unlock stuff rly makes no difference to  MP abusing tbh) in future, maybe even related to certain mission goals instead of airkills only (to prevent super vulching).

Edited October 5, 2014 by [Jg26]5tuka

[1./JG42Nephris]

Maybe there could be an option to pay $10-20 more and not have to deal with XP or unlocks?

Nuts.

Edited October 5, 2014 by 1./JG42Nephris

[DD_bongodriver]

 

 

Money talks and I am willing to put my money where my mouth is and show that I am more than happy to further support the developers if it means I can avoid a part of the game I despise.

 

maybe we could pay to get FM issues fixed too?

[Afwastus]

Why not?

 

I'd rather the developers be honest and give us direct options to vote with our money that to nebulously suggest that something has to be done to save the game.

Edited October 5, 2014 by Afwastus

[Anw.StG2_Tyke]

At this point it is clear a significant number of players hate unlocks and grinding for XP. At the same time the developers feel that unlocks are necessary to attract and entertain mainstream gamers. Furthermore, according to several of the developers there are not enough "flight simmers" to sustain the game.

If thats the case I have to look into my crystall sphere and say, this game won't sustain even with this kind of unlocks. Don't people learn from other games that those small things aren't helping?

[Afwastus]

Either way, I'm just being practical, if the developers don't think we represent their target audience, then at the very least we should be able to have a way to "buy out" of annoying features.

 

All I ask for is that we, flight simmers, are given our own small corner to play in, even if it means having to pay more to get it. Then the developers can focus on attracting the mainstream crowd without having to worry about our critique.

Edited October 5, 2014 by Afwastus

[frenchfly]

If that is the best way to ensure BOS viability and future devlopment than this game is more than dead... come on...

 

A good and well implemented reward system would be great in a good designed campaign, but Field-Modifications in a generous quick mission based "Campaign" weeellll.... its argueable where the project designer got his qualification...

 

 

 

@frenchfly

No it isn't and we had it that way. But then the Devs thought, it is more realistic and historical accurate when we make it how it was in the planes. Axis for Wheels or leavers and buttons for... buttons.

That's funny because when I press the pitch and roll trim "buttons" I see the trim "wheels" turning so much for realism.

[DD_bongodriver]

How does a "button" simulate a "lever" which moves on an "axis"?

[EG14_Attila]

I´m not really happy with this update! I was on the way to like BOS more then COD, but this "unlock thing" changes everything!!

I´m a online player and I have no desire to unlock any thing in a campaign! This update is for me a big step backwards in the ranking of my favourite sim!

That´s sad!

[LLv44_Mprhead]

Ok, unlocks and multiplayer... IMO it is issue mostly because it put's unnecessary restraints for mission builders. For air-to-air combat the only one I see being significant is head armor in Bf 109, others don't really matter. But now it's not possible to make a mission where you have to use (insert fighter here) as ground attack plane or bomber with certain load to win the scenario. Weapon mods should be left for server to decide in MP. The way it's done now doesn't break the game for me, but it does make it worse.

On separate issue, why is the Finnish national insignia mutilated in G2 skin?

[BlackDevil]

Hotas setup: $200-500

Trackir: $200

Pedals: $150-$400

Gaming rig: $2000 and up

Fancy flight seat: $400

Wanting your money back for a $90 sim that you've been playing for months: priceless.

 

 

I´m a online player and I have no desire to unlock any thing in a campaign! This update is for me a big step backwards in the ranking of my favourite sim!

That´s sad!

No need to be sad, before the game is finished.

 

They will change it for sure - think positive !

 

unlocks will stay within the campaign. MP and QMB will be unlocked.

Edited October 5, 2014 by BlackDevil

[fjacobsen]

I did not have the chance to unlock anything, cause I wrecked the first missio and is now stuck (wil be fixed on tueasday hopefully)

 

While I´m not 100% against unlocks, I wonder why the devs didn´t use the ROF system of "weapon mods" which You can buy for each aircraft.

That way You can decide for Yourself how much money to invest and open up for enhanced "gameplay".

 

If they want to keep the unlock system, then atleast MP should not be affected. Instead the host / MP mission designer should be the one to decide what weapons or enhancements should be available.

 

While I disagree with the dev´s abput their decisions regarding unlocks, I still refuse to dump this title, cause apart from the unlocks (which can be fixed by flying a few missions), the rest of IL-2 BOS is amazing.

I rather like to look ahead towards the FMB, where we finally will be able to make our own historic missions and maybe build campaigns.

 

 

FinnJ

Edited October 5, 2014 by fjacobsen

[Vaxxtx]

Hotas setup: $200-500

Trackir: $200

Pedals: $150-$400

Gaming rig: $2000 and up

Fancy flight seat: $400

Wanting your money back for a $90 sim that you've been playing for months: priceless.

People don't mind paying for quality. People don't mind spending money for enhancements for their hobbies. But when all the stuff you bought for something you thought was going be to solid turns out shallow and hollow, well makes sense to feel hoodwinked.

 

Nothing strange about it.

[HR_Tumu]

I Recibed error 10037 , on second mission, 

what can i do?

 

please help.

 

thx

[IckyATLAS]

At this point it is clear a significant number of players hate unlocks and grinding for XP. At the same time the developers feel that unlocks are necessary to attract and entertain mainstream gamers. Furthermore, according to several of the developers there are not enough "flight simmers" to sustain the game.

 

So I am suggesting a compromise, clearly the developers want/need more funding and unlocks are an integral part of their stratergy for the game. Similarly, it should be clear that some of us don't want to have to grind SP. By charging us extra money to skip unlocking, they thus get more money without removing the feature and they don't have to deal with irritated customers.

 

Personally, I paid $94.99 for the game, $10/$20/$30 or more isn't going to make a huge difference for me. Hell, make it a "donation" with a "reward" if it makes it sound better. Let's say if you donate $20 dollars to the developers you get listed as a contributor in some list posted on the forum and to reward your "service" you get full XP and unlocks straight off the bat.

 

Money talks and I am willing to put my money where my mouth is and show that I am more than happy to further support the developers if it means I can avoid a part of the game I despise.

Here my 20$

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

Here are a couple more thoughts on unlocks to ponder.  Sorry if they have already been brought up.

 

As a squad we do training with new recruits, etc.  It will be more difficult to do this as the cadets may not have all the mods unlocked that are needed for a certain session.

 

Also, in mp, those with time will get the weapons unlocked quickly while those without the time will have to fly weapons still locked.  IMHO I think this will make things a little unbalanced on the servers.

[VBF-12_Stele]

RoF career and even Pat Wilsons campaign got boring real fast. Its easy to see why it was not played much. There is only so much random missions you can play until you tire of it.

 And now they are doing the same thing in BoS but under the impression that unlocks will make it "fun".

 

I wish people would stop using RoF as a measuring stick as far as a SP campaign goes. Start using IL2's Dgen and DCG's deep campaigns, not an empty "career". Dont go backwards, move forward.

 

IL2's Dgen and DCG was one of the best features of that game and what gave it its longevity. My squad mates and I flew hundreds of missions with that feature. That was my motivation for flying.

[HBB*Hunger]

Here my 20$

 

Take my 50 bugs ...

[Vaxxtx]

IL2's Dgen and DCG was one of the best features of that game and what gave it its longevity. My squad mates and I flew hundreds of missions with that feature. That was my motivation for flying.

Its the reason many online and offline still play it.

 

You would think that would have been a thought for 777.

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

The game design decision is the message from our studio, it speaks for itself.

Unlocks give you motivation, smth to keep flying for, something rewarding your success. How can it be bad when you're given a bonus every time you reach a certain amount of game experience?

I wish we gave you no unlocks in the first place, but we had to test them and we let you do that.

This is a flawed conclusion and this isn't me singling out your game. I'd apply this to all games that utilize this.

 

Having unlocks is a good incentive for the player. However, incentivizing playing the game itself? That shouldn't be the approach. The incentive for playing the game should be the enjoyment you derive from playing it, pure and simple. The game is fun to play and it isn't a chore, you shouldn't need to put a carrot on a stick for the player in that regard. It boils down to what's unlockable. Unlocking new liveries is a terrible incentive. A superior incentive is the field modifications, which you have. Instead of just using unlocks as a means to pad-out gameplay time, turning the game into a grind, you should focus your unlocks on providing incentive for the player to try new things.

[senseispcc]

I have played six or seven missions in the campaign and died once but still I continue the only thing that make this mission I died in and the others is the fact I did receive no XP's

 

The rest of the missions because I always fly the same plane, the La-5, I chose between 3, intercept, escort and ground attack. Everyone is nearly the same and the important word here is "nearly»!

 

Each one is take off, fly to action region and land but none was the same in reality.  Some are short other longer (more than 30 min of flight without the combat time). Some are easy ( my first victory was in an escort mission against a BF109-f4 ) and more are difficult I landed at home base without any damage only once!

 

If you take time to immerse yourself in this campaign it is rewarding and a lot of fun. I discover the new skins and try to survive each mission now to gain some XP's.

 

Try it let it flow around you and enjoy it.

 

It could be better, the only amelioration I should ask for is the plane management AI, of your own aircraft, could be better.

 

[LukeFF]

 

 

Sometimes I fly for the Luftwaffe, then I desert and fly for the VVS

 

Nothing's stopping you or anyone else to just pick one side and fly for just that one side for the duration of the campaign.  

[39bn_pavig]

By the way, unlocks are game design 101 these days: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/1771/gameplay_design_fundamentals_.php?print=1

 

"So, it is best to both plan the progression in advance as much as possible (early production), and to set a planned checkpoint later on to update the progression structure with formerly unknown elements, and finally to set multiple review and feedback loops in the content to make sure the progression structure is supported, followed and satisfactory to focus testers."

 

So after 2 days of the progression system in the game being out we have 20 pages of critique. It'll be iterated I'm sure.  I'd wait at least until next friday before freaking out too much about it. 

 

Edit: Hmm. Just wondering if I should open an airtasker.com account and do a bit of goldmining unlocking planes for time poor simmers.

Edited October 5, 2014 by 39bn_pavig

[Afwastus]

 

Here my 20$

 

Take my 50 bugs ...

 

I think this illustrates well, that there are a number of players who would rather pay than have to suffer through XP/Unlocks.

 

The beauty of this system is that it gives the developers more funding and it means the hardcore community can both support the game/developers and avoid something they dislike.

[wellenbrecher]

Too late the sky has fallen

 

55026015.jpg

 

(not aimed at anyone LoL)

 

Cheers Dakpilot

 

Oh come on...

No reason to be obtuse. The obvious and defining difference is that in one case the person wants to do it and in the other he's doing it because someone on the dev team said he has to.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

"Afwastus"

 

Maybe there could be an option to pay $10-20 more and not have to deal with XP or unlocks?

 

Pros:

More money for 777/1C

Unlocks/XP still available for those who want it

Those of us who don't want to grind for unlocks don't have to

 

Cons:

Players have to pay a bit more

 

Doesn't this then become the dreaded Pay to Win scenario?

[Afwastus]

It does in a way, but given the developer's hardline view on unlocks/XP it's the best compromise.

 

Essentially, it let's us, the flight simmers, play the game our way while funding the developers and they can tailor the general to the mainstrean players.

Edited October 5, 2014 by Afwastus

[Vaxxtx]

Sorry would not pay a nickle to unlock everything.

 

Bad design decisions does not make we want to throw funds for it.

 

I would have payed $150 for a dynamic campaign, and an engine that could 200 planes and 100 ground units...in the same area.

[dburne]

No doubt. Every week for the last couple of months has brought the same dramatics. I said it before in this thread, most of this is being driven by a select few.

 

Pretty sure it has been more than just a select few.

[indiaciki]

Let's put it this way. Time is a limited resource. I'd rather pay more than waste my time with something I don't want to do. People have lives. People who play sims are mostly adults with jobs and family, friends etc. You can't expect them to fly boring missions in order to use the sim to its full capacity. That's a reality you cannot ignore.

 

[Freycinet]

Oh come on...

No reason to be obtuse. The obvious and defining difference is that in one case the person wants to do it and in the other he's doing it because someone on the dev team said he has to.

 

What is so mindblowingly unheard of about "having to do something"? - Computer games are a new artform: like any artform there is an artist behind with a vision of what he makes for the audience. In the old days it was painters, sculptors, classical composers, film directors... Now-a-days computer game designers joined that crowd. They all present their artistic creation to an audience.

 

People didn't ask Leonardo to give Mona Lisa a big flashy smile or Mozart to take out the string section. Why do some customers of computer games then insist on imposing their own ideas on the designers of computer games? "We want this", "we want that", eh yeah? - How about respecting the artists for the work that they decide to put on offer? In the old days nobody were as obtuse (as you call it) that they wanted each and every artwork to conform EXACTLY to their particular wishes. Just because of the internet, forums, and developers communicating with their audience, now a lot of simmers demand that developers make a sim exactly as they want it. I find the attitude slightly disrespectful of artists presenting their vision of what they want in a sim. I wonder if there are flame wars in U2 fan forums with screaming multitudes demanding that the band "up the tempo", "fire the drummer" or "get another guy to do the vocals"...

 

It may sound trite but "vote with your wallet" and "go make your own flight sim as you want it" are actually still options for all those who cannot stomach a flight sim that doesn't precisely fit their each and every wish. A majority of simmers seem unhappy to fly over a snow-covered landscape, but do you know what? - That was an artistic choice by the developers. That was what they wanted to do. If BoS sells well then the artists behind it may feel like doing a summer scenario, who knows? Same with unlocks... - Who knows?    

[Rjel]

Pretty sure it has been more than just a select few.

Based on the total number of copies sold? Wanna bet? Add up the posts of each individual in this thread and tell me it's anywhere near an across the board response of the overall community.

[DD_bongodriver]

Based on the total number of copies sold? Wanna bet? Add up the posts of each individual in this thread and tell me it's anywhere near an across the board response of the overall community.

 

That old chestnut, as far as contribution in vocal terms, no matter what the topic is it's always the same people and has nothing to do with silent majorities.

[Vaxxtx]

Based on the total number of copies sold? Wanna bet? Add up the posts of each individual in this thread and tell me it's anywhere near an across the board response of the overall community.

Your also getting just this community which is going to be much less critical due to moderation. Expand your online footprint and you see much more harsh thoughts on the game and campaign.

[Rjel]

That old chestnut, as far as contribution in vocal terms, no matter what the topic is it's always the same people and has nothing to do with silent majorities.

Which means what? That the silent majority, because they are silent, like or dislike this design decision? My point is a few guys are b****ing repetitively in the hope of getting what they want. Not what is best for all. Best for the genre. Only what they feel is "best".