Developer Diary, Part XXVII

[BlackSix]

Is mid autumn mid September?

 

Mid-Autumn is mid October.

But this is the approximate time!

[I/JG27_Rollo]

So we should rather expect November?

 

Btw: would it be feasible to have a semi-historical campaign that works just like the normal historical-campaign but includes the bonus planes in their own regiments?

Edited August 9, 2013 by I/JG27_Rollo

[6S.Manu]

So we should rather expect November?

 

[I/JG27_Rollo]

That doesn't even come close to how I look right now.

 

Also: I want to tease them so they say to themselves: "we'll show that guy by getting it out by late September!"

(But don't tell anyone)

Edited August 9, 2013 by I/JG27_Rollo

[79_vRAF_Friendly_flyer]

I can tell you by experience (SEOW) that some big issues of that method were latecomers, software crashes, early disconnections and problems with unrecognized peripherals.

 

It was not easy to coordinate 80 pilots from different part of the world and people could wait 30 minutes for the start when for some stupid reasons they could not rejoin: most of the time if the server was restared the same issues would happens to other pilots.

 

So a Dogfight mission WITH DEFINED RULES is way better. Always IMO.

 

 

I beg the differ, but that is a matter of taste I presume. A lack of a built in co-op function is sad, but as long as it is a way to get more or less the same function, it is not a deal-breaker.

[JtD]

Not sure if it was new or if I missed it before - but I'm really happy to hear that the crew stations will be modelled properly in multi crew bombers. Some odd bits with other things though, but clearly more good news than bad for me.

 

Very good information in this update, would be good to see some of this Q&A in every update. Thank you!

 

Is this "recently released" Soviet info available online somewhere? I know I'd love to see it, but then I'm not likely to travel to the Russian archives any time soon. Is it copyrighted material or can the devs upload it?

Edited August 9, 2013 by JtD

[I/JG27_Rollo]

 

The good news is that the MP environment that will be available at launch can support squadron based missions and objectives easily and missions can be flown with your friends in a co-op style without much difficulty with just a little coordination between pilots.

 

Can you please elaborate a little more on this:

Does this mean squad-based missions against AI or also against other players/squads?

What kind of coordination is required between pilots (other than being on the same server at the same time)?

 

Oh and of course: nice IL-2 pictures.

[6S.Manu]

That doesn't even come close to how Iook right now.

 

Also: I want to tease them so they say to themselves: "we'll show that guy by getting it out by late September!"

(But don't tell anyone)

 

 

[Trooper117]

Thumbs up team!

[150GCT_Veltro]

 

So a Dogfight mission WITH DEFINED RULES is way better. Always IMO.

 

 

 

+ 1.000.000.000

 

Hooo guys, please understand this! Cooperative is outdated!

Edited August 9, 2013 by 150GCT_Veltro

[I/JG27_Rollo]

And another quick question:

 

 

Free Hard Drive space: 10 Gb+

 

Are those the estimates for the final release or for the early access client?

[ATAG_Slipstream]

+ 1.000.000.000

 

Hooo guys, please understand this! Cooperative is outdated!

New doesn't always mean better...

Still, it is what it is, hopefully we can make something out of it for official squad vs squad online wars.

[LuftManu]

New doesn't always mean better...

Still, it is what it is, hopefully we can make something out of it for official squad vs squad online wars.

Dont worry man, we always make something to keep going, we are here becose of our passion for flightsims .

[Uufflakke]

On screenshot #1 and #2  it is not quite clear that all the shades and sharp edges simulate thick canopy glass.

 

And compared to photo of an IL-2 (don't know what type) isn't the simulated glass a bit too thick?

Or did have other IL-2 types much thicker glass. That might also be the case of course.

 

[Bearcat]

No il2 style co ops. Seriously disappointing.

I am reserving all judgements on these kinds of things till the release and I get it in my hands .. but IMO the ideal situation for online play is IL2 style coops and DFs with some kind of MDS kind of hybrid scenario also possible. I still have yet to play RoF online and went into DCS online for the first time the other night.. I still think thus far IL2 got the online thing very right.. I think that with all this from online to offline the gui .. everything that the team will most likely learn from mistakes made in RoF and not port those same errors over into BoS ..

[BraveSirRobin]

Isn't it possible to simulate Coop style missions in DF mode?

[SYN_Ricky]

Isn't it possible to simulate Coop style missions in DF mode?

 

Yes it is.

[BraveSirRobin]

Then I don't understand the no Coop angst.  

[6S.Manu]

Then I don't understand the no Coop angst.  

 

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it" way of thinking. 

[PA-Sniv]

Another nice shot found on Twitter (low res):

 

Edited August 9, 2013 by PA-Sniv

[BraveSirRobin]

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it" way of thinking. 

 

That needs to change to "if you don't need it, don't waste resources making it".

[Mac_Messer]

Yes it is.

The correct answer should be : depends on the details. IL2 featured two main types of coop online missions - generic skirmishes and online wars. The first is most likely doable in a DF server, the second - not sure. Online wars engaged thousands of pilots in thousands of sorties with a dynamic scenario. If you did not take part in them, you do not know what you are missing.

[150GCT_Veltro]

Another nice shot found on Twitter (low res):

 

 

Thank!

 

Would be possible have the same for the Stuka? It would be good to push our team mate preorder.

 

Amazing cockpit, top quality better than RoF standard.

[Mac_Messer]

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it" way of thinking. 

Hardly. Much more like "don`t try to invent the wheel for the second time".

[6S.Manu]

The correct answer should be : depends on the details. IL2 featured two main types of coop online missions - generic skirmishes and online wars. The first is most likely doable in a DF server, the second - not sure. Online wars engaged thousands of pilots in thousands of sorties with a dynamic scenario. If you did not take part in them, you do not know what you are missing.

 

Really I don't understand the difference between a normal Coop and a DF mission in which the killed pilots are allowed to fly a single sortie.

 

I don't find a single flaw in it.

Hardly. Much more like "don`t try to invent the wheel for the second time".

 

IL2's coop system is not flawless and actually BoS has no Coop mode at all.

 

Do you guys want the Devs to spend resources in the development of a faulty system?

Edited August 9, 2013 by 6S.Manu

[BraveSirRobin]

The correct answer should be : depends on the details. IL2 featured two main types of coop online missions - generic skirmishes and online wars. The first is most likely doable in a DF server, the second - not sure. Online wars engaged thousands of pilots in thousands of sorties with a dynamic scenario. If you did not take part in them, you do not know what you are missing.

 

Why is it not possible to simulate the online war in DF mode?

[Laser]

This bears repeating: 

 

I've played this kind of coop in ROF (and in CloD too), even if using a DF server, just like in IL-2 with my squad and others, with the difference that in case of a technical problem at astart you could rejoign without having to restart for everyone.

 

In ROF you can set a timer that will lock the available airfields after some time, allowing late comers or people having tech problem toi join, and preventing people who have died later to take off again.

 

Those coops had detailed briefing for both sides, with people flying in formation to achieve their given goals, exactly like what you describe.

 

In Il-2 I never participated in the big online campaigns, so maybe I'm missing out what would make them impossible to do with a system like ROF or CloD...

 

Don't hang on the coop 'name', think of what features you actually want. If the above RoF features are ok, chances are you're covered. Didn't play too much RoF MP, but i remember you can have a 'in-between' feature that allows you to respawn only after X minutes, or only if the aerodrome is supplied (also on a timer) with new planes.

Edited August 9, 2013 by Laser

[Sokol1]

I dont know RoF COOP system, but I think people dont want miss this "fun" of il-2 COOP:

 

"Please reestart again my AV start scanning and my game freeze"...

"Please reestart, my HOTAS have wrong profile loaded"...

"Sorry guys, I start engine with throttle forward"... (and decimated half of the group)

"Hey guys, what abouth start again? I delayed giving food to the dog and lost time..."

 

 

"COOP" in "another" sim: http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/showthread.php?t=80036&page=5

 

Sokol1

Edited August 9, 2013 by Sokol1

[Bearcat]

I dont know RoF COOP system, but I think people dont want miss this "fun" of il-2 COOP:

 

"Please reestart again my AV start scanning and my game freeze"...

"Please reestart, my HOTAS have wrong profile loaded"...

"Sorry guys, I start engine with throttle forward"... (and decimated half of the group)

"Hey guys, what abouth start again? I delayed giving food to the dog and lost time..."

 

 

"COOP" in "another" sim: http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/showthread.php?t=80036&page=5

 

Sokol1

 

LOL... this is too funny because it is true..

[4S_Nero]

No il2 style co ops. Seriously disappointing.

 i'm with Uther.

[FuriousMeow]

I hated locked coops, stopped me from playing wars. Spend twenty minutes waiting around for the mission to finally start because people had to join or someone was having problems joining, then some dropped due to tech difficulties, then you finally get started fifteen to a half hour late and the coop host goes down.

 

War Thunder has the equivelant of that, and it's horrible. WT in general is awful to me, but that mission mode is agonizing.

Edited August 9, 2013 by FuriousMeow

[6S.Manu]

I dont know RoF COOP system, but I think people dont want miss this "fun" of il-2 COOP:

 

"Please reestart again my AV start scanning and my game freeze"...

"Please reestart, my HOTAS have wrong profile loaded"...

"Sorry guys, I start engine with throttle forward"... (and decimated half of the group)

"Hey guys, what abouth start again? I delayed giving food to the dog and lost time..."

 

 

Sokol1

 

Riiight! 

 

There was a test for a SEOW campaign some months ago; my squad was in a private TS room waiting for the start, but the server had some issues.

 

So we chatted in that room for almost 1 hour and finally the mission was going to be started when my teammate's connection dropped from TS because of a blackout.

 

After 5 minutes he came back on TS, complaining about his problem. "Is the mission started?" he asked. "Yes, we're already flying..." was the answer.

 

I can't forget his reaction (   )

Edited August 9, 2013 by 6S.Manu

[150GCT_Veltro]

I dont know RoF COOP system, but I think people dont want miss this "fun" of il-2 COOP:

 

"Please reestart again my AV start scanning and my game freeze"...

"Please reestart, my HOTAS have wrong profile loaded"...

"Sorry guys, I start engine with throttle forward"... (and decimated half of the group)

"Hey guys, what abouth start again? I delayed giving food to the dog and lost time..."

 

 

"COOP" in "another" sim: http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/showthread.php?t=80036&page=5

 

Sokol1

 

Alleluja.

 

Cooperative is OUTDATED, rules as Manu says make the differences.

 

SEOW in dog dynamic style is the future, with rules.

[72sq_Iva]

LOL... this is too funny because it is true..

 

Yeah, mostly when it happens after you prepared for one week to fly the mission, there's no restart and isn't even your fault that the plane got blown up on the runway, argh!!

[Sethos]

Damn, I had hoped to get my hands on the early access before my next surgery but if the guestimate at this point is mid-October, that is looking bleak  

[BraveSirRobin]

If I had the choice between putting development resources into Coop or a more intuitive/easier mission building, I would take the mission builder ever day of the week.

[6S.Manu]

Yes, Veltro. 

 

OUTDATED is the right word here. 

[leitmotiv]

They will not have co-op at start, in future maybe;

"...Yes, we have all necessary technologies and yes, they work perfectly, but we have made a conscious decision not to release co-op at launch. The reason is because we want to make it good. And it’s much more than just technologies; it’s a certain level of service – convenient, reliable, and inviting. And this level of service we can’t provide at launch. It may become possible someday if the project is popular and develops with a positive dynamic...."

 

Well it looks they are doing good thing then not going for coop mod at lanch.

It seams there is not so many guys interested in co-op, and guys who like SEOW will stay on old IL2, its not like they are counted in hundreds of hard core players. If they are interested in this game they would post on this forum im shure. 

 

RoF has online wars, BoS will have them also even without co-op mod, how complex depends on organisers.

 

IL-2 looks cool, hope in 2 months ill try new LaGG and 109 over Volga who knows maybe also Yak-1

Edited August 9, 2013 by Yaklover

[No601_Swallow]

Alleluja.

 

Cooperative is OUTDATED, rules as Manu says make the differences.

 

SEOW in dog dynamic style is the future, with rules.

 

I think it's important to remember that different people use the game in different ways. My own squadron meets 3 times a week, but once a week for "Operations" - a campaign of  historically based missions that we design and fly ourselves. A host launches a mission and we all fly it together. Simple. We've been doing this for about 10 years (some of us!) in IL2. We'd love to be able to continue to do this in BoS, even if it seems "outdated" to DF swashbucklers.

 

So for us, "coop" means: a host starting a server with our own self-generated mission files, all squadron mates turning up (generally mucking about in a DF server until it's time to launch our ops mission) at the appropriate time, chatting on comms, "launching" at the prearranged time. All of us then find ourselves in cockpit, in the places that the mission builder has designed (could be on the runway, could be in hangers, could be air-start), and we then fly the mission (with the objectives and opposition that has been "written" by the designer). It's great fun, often amazing, and rewarding for all, even with the silly restarts that occasionally happen.

 

CloD has been a bit of a nightmare for us, since it is only now - what, a couple of years after launch - that we've been able to simulate this pretty bleedin' simple functionality into the CloD DF/online set-up. It's been really frustrating, not being able to use CloD in this straightforward way. And we (well, some of us) are no slouches when it comes to online gaming.

 

So now I'm a little fearful that BoS mp might be a similar own-goal. RoF coops work fine for us - a host "launches" the mission and we all fly it together. So, please, let's have this (together with a lovely cuddly FMB, with triggers and bells and whistles!)

Edited August 9, 2013 by No601_Swallow

[DD_Arthur]

 i'm with Uther.

 

Yep, so am I.  A big mistake to omit a simple, useable coop function.  All this talk about SEOW is a red-herring. We're talking about the provision of simple coop functionality.  There is nothing wrong and nothing outdated about the coop system in IL2 1946.  It works very well.  It's a great pity as RoF has a perfectly good coop mode but does not have a lobby system where players can gather.  That is it's biggest  handicap.

 

@Brave Sir Robin;  I agree with your point about making a decent, user-friendly FMB a higher priority than coop mode as the two go hand in hand.  I fear we will have neither in the foreseeable future.