Game is just not fun (for new people)

[Mac_Messer]

Thanks. Maybe i just had a bad day flying. I play on the Expert server so i know how to handle the AC properly. I just feel like I'm someones biatch every single time.

What flying hardware do you have? If that is a standard joystick, no TIR, flying can be a bother sometimes, especially when you`re still getting the hang of it. From my experience better hardware easens the learning curve quite a bit. Mind you, it is not proportional to the price of some of those things. But if you got cash to burn, ask around to find the most dependant setups. Personally it  didn`t help me that much, though I know many ppl can`t start without great hardware.

[Half-DevilPorkChop]

Keep practicing offline and you will get your aim down. It comes pretty fast.

[39bn_pavig]

Having your plane comfortably trimmed for dogfighting is also very helpful for aim. Which elevator setting works for you will depend on if you are a boomer or a turner, so it's worth experimenting.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

I have always trimmed for level flight at max cruise and am very successful at picking my engagements or disengaging. I am typically a BNZ guy and exclusively LW. Would I trim differently for turn fights and how often do you readjust?

[Gambit21]

I do the same as you don't trim any differently for turn fights.

I might be in BnZ one moment and decide to make it a turn fight in the next.

Edited August 19, 2014 by Gambit21

[II./JG53Lutzow_z06z33]

I love aviation. I'm a pilot in real life. However, the online aspect of this game is just not fun for new people. I'm sitting here competing with people with 5+years experience in online fighting. I can fly around and do BnZ all day, however my aim is crap, because you have to sit down and play this game for a good amount of time just to get your aiming to a somewhat "respectable" hit ratio. I'm a "pick up and play" type of guy due to real life and I'm finding out the hard way that this game is not one of them. I guess i will just stay in the single player mode and get what $94.00 bucks i can out of this game. Sorry had to vent.

I've been flying combat sims going on 17 years now and a real world pilot also. My advice is read a few books written by aces they are a great insight. Some hints I can give you is don't fire until you are close, If your flying a German plane don't try to turn with the Russians unless your very good. If you have a few yaks on your tail firewall it and dive for the dirt the 109 can easily out run all the red planes and when I say hit the dirt I mean you need to be looking up at the trees flying that low makes you harder to hit and the chasing pilot might get fixated on you and hit a tree or the ground. Also make sure your plane isn't loaded with more than 30% of fuel flying with full tanks is a sure way to get killed. Pm me if you'd like to fly sometime I'll gladly fly your wing and keep you covered while u learn. Edited August 19, 2014 by OCTz06z33

[GrieverGriever_XIV]

I've been flying combat sims going on 17 years now and a real world pilot also. My advice is read a few books written by aces they are a great insight. Some hints I can give you is don't fire until you are close, If your flying a German plane don't try to turn with the Russians unless your very good. If you have a few yaks on your tail firewall it and dive for the dirt the 109 can easily out run all the red planes and when I say hit the dirt I mean you need to be looking up at the trees flying that low makes you harder to hit and the chasing pilot might get fixated on you and hit a tree or the ground. Also make sure your plane isn't loaded with more than 30% of fuel flying with full tanks is a sure way to get killed. Pm me if you'd like to fly sometime I'll gladly fly your wing and keep you covered while u learn.

Being new to this game too, I cant believe I never thought of flying with 30% fuel, I feel like Ive been missing out. Thanks for that quick tip!

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

I fly full fuel because I'd never fly with 30% in real life. Even in airquake.  My IP told me in the first week of training, "You can never have too much fuel..............unless you are on fire."

[ARM505]

I fly with 30% fuel all the time IRL So I have no such qualms...do it, you'll appreciate it.

[JZG_Viking]

Don't get discouraged, aim will come with time, and it's something you can practice. But it's not a about super precise stick movements or muscle memory and last minute corrections, it's all about setting up the kill / shot, which is all about flying ability really, controlling your angle, speed, position, closure etc. You don't need to practice for hours every day like some CS:Go pro.

 

I recommend watching some Mk.Mr.X youtube video's, he's done a ton of them for BoS on his channel with new clips every week.

Edited August 19, 2014 by JZG_Kaiser74

[II./JG53Lutzow_z06z33]

I fly full fuel because I'd never fly with 30% in real life. Even in airquake.  My IP told me in the first week of training, "You can never have too much fuel..............unless you are on fire."

Though this is true for everyday flying in combat its not. You need less weight to survive this is why fighter bombers will jettison their loads if they get into a fight.

[Gambit21]

I tend to take off with 65% fuel in a fighter, 100% in the IL2 or Stuka.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Is minimum fuel quantity historically accurate? I'd be surprised if the average LW pilot said, "Hmm, I think it's gonna be airquake above Hanover today. I think I'll take 30% fuel."

 

If I had a drop tank, I'd drop it too because that's what it's for. P-51's were practically tanked up til the pilot was swimming in gas and burned off some of the internal fuel before switching to the drops.

 

I don't mind the extra weight because I don't tend to furball. It doesn't affect my aircraft performance except in high rates of climb....which I don't do unless I already have the E advantage.

[Finkeren]

I usually go for 55% fuel just to stay competitive. With the unrealistically short flight distances in MP I don't find bringing 100% to be that realistic either. IRL very little air combat would take place with one or both aircraft at 95% fuel. Somewhere between 40%-80% I find to be acceptable for MP.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Fair enough,

 

I'll drop it down to 65-70. Now my Fw will turn with those Yak's for sure

Edited August 19, 2014 by A1FltTrn=HerrMurf

[Finkeren]

I don't know why you're complaining about the Fw 190 HerrMurff. It seems to turn extremely fast litterally on the spot as soon as I open the throttle on the runway.

Edited August 19, 2014 by Finkeren

[Potenz]

I love aviation. I'm a pilot in real life. However, the online aspect of this game is just not fun for new people. I'm sitting here competing with people with 5+years experience in online fighting. I can fly around and do BnZ all day, however my aim is crap, because you have to sit down and play this game for a good amount of time just to get your aiming to a somewhat "respectable" hit ratio. I'm a "pick up and play" type of guy due to real life and I'm finding out the hard way that this game is not one of them. I guess i will just stay in the single player mode and get what $94.00 bucks i can out of this game. Sorry had to vent.

 

I will love to share my experience(11+ years) it's a hard hard hard learning curve.

Though this is true for everyday flying in combat its not. You need less weight to survive this is why fighter bombers will jettison their loads if they get into a fight.

that's just wrong, that's only true for VR combat, in real life never is enough fuel.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

@Fink - I've only plucked one aircraft in the pattern since joining this game. If it was you, (this week BTW) then I apologize. It was a target of opportunity not design. Just doesn't seem very sporting to me. So, I don't do it often. I did take 60% fuel up today and it did make a difference in a downward spiraling chase. It's still no Yak..........but better.

 

@Potenz - Yep, VR vs RL.........................except I've succumbed to the dark side. See previous paragraph.

 

In general, however, now that I'm venturing into furballs a bit more the @#$% AAA has trimmed my feathers rather consistently. I think I will continue hunting away from enemy airfields or at altitude.

[13Nrv]

5years + experienced....and lots are 10/15 and +

And for sure,  like a race sim you need to practice a lot to be competitive ...however being in a squad as mentionned  will be safer ....or playing offline ....yep .

 

Same difference than between granturismo or forza or grid and a true race sim as assetto corsa or i racing ...

 

That said , its possible to fly even online but you need to think a lot of what you do ....more than the others .

 

AND  online  "style"  will change ; at the moment it s only "furball"  ...but when "coop style"  will appear things will be both more interesting and some  way easier for you ...

 

Just an advise :  jump into a squad

Edited August 19, 2014 by 13Nrv

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

@Finkeren, I now realize, I completely missed your meaning. With the FM change my ground handling is much improved.

 

~S

[Livai]

If I had a drop tank, I'd drop it too because that's what it's for. The pilot was swimming in gas and burned off some of the internal fuel before switching to the drops

  If you have a drop tank you would do this too burn off the internal fuel tank first before swtiching to the drop-tanks. Like the pilot from the P-51's do. But you need to drop your internal tank because thats what it is for before switching to the drop tanks 

 

For MP I use fuel how I really need for it. At each fight I look how much is left at the end of the round or when I need to return to base because I have low ammo. Then I known next time how much I need exactly. 100% is overkill for MP you are faster run out off ammo then with fuel.  The MP with short flights to the battle and back tell me where I would have advantage with 100% fuel. If you are a bomber that a other story fly around the border and attack their base from behind where they dont think you would coming from. With a Fighter you can do this tactic, too. Its a very great tactic.

Edited August 20, 2014 by Superghostboy

[malcheus]

I haven't tried multiplayer (yet), as I am still trying out all planes and getting the hang of everything; my question though: will it ever be feasable to specialise in flying bombers in multiplayer? 

It seems to me like flying bombers would be more about the big strategy and less split second reactions and dogfighting; which is a lot easier to get the hang of. 

On the other hand, in most flight games bombers are just big, easy targets, and unless there's a good reason to protect them, nobody will bother helping them. 

[Livai]

On the other hand, in most flight games bombers are just big, easy targets, and unless there's a good reason to protect them, nobody will bother helping them.

 

How To Build a Bomber

Fighter  +  Bomb  =  Bomber

Fighter  -   Bomb  =  Fighter

Edited August 20, 2014 by Superghostboy

[malcheus]

How To Build a Bomber

Fighter  +  Bomb  =  Bomber

Fighter  -   Bomb  =  Fighter

 

Could you explain, in 150 words or less, what a Stuka is, and how it fits in the above definition? 

[Livai]

Could you explain, in 150 words or less, what a Stuka is, and how it fits in the above definition? 

 

You said that no one care if someone fly a bomber ( Stuka, Pe-2,He-111, IL-2 ) and need a protection or a escort to the target because he are a easy target for them. If thats the problem (see above post #63) use a Fighter (Fw-190,Bf-109,La-5,Yak-1,LaGG-3) add some bombs to be a bomber fly to the target drop the bombs to be a Fighter again. And you can everytime protect yourself and you not need to care if someone notice and comes to help you out..

Edited August 20, 2014 by Superghostboy

[malcheus]

You said that no one care if someone fly a bomber ( Stuka, Pe-2,He-111, IL-2 ) and need a protection or a escort to the target because he are a easy target for them. If thats the problem (see above post #63) use a Fighter (Fw-190,Bf-109,La-5,Yak-1,LaGG-3) add some bombs to be a bomber fly to the target drop the bombs to be a Fighter again. And you can everytime protect yourself and you not need to care if someone notice and comes to help you out..

 

First of all the bomb load on those fighters is much less than a dedicated bomber, secondly I was asking whether there would ever be a good reason for someone to fly a bomber in multiplayer, since they are no use dogfighting; and unless there is some ground target that needs to be destroyed in order for the team to win, most players will not bother protecting them (assuming player behaviour is similar between BoS and warthunder). 

However bombers are fun, and arguably a way for players who are not good at dogfighting to join multiplayer and be of use to the team. 

[KoN_]

Lots of good tips here , join a squad is one . choose one aircraft learn its flaws and strong points . fun will come later . at the moment the online servers are very difficult , low cloud base and vulchers .

[Livai]

First of all the bomb load on those fighters is much less than a dedicated bomber, secondly I was asking whether there would ever be a good reason for someone to fly a bomber in multiplayer, since they are no use dogfighting; and unless there is some ground target that needs to be destroyed in order for the team to win, most players will not bother protecting them (assuming player behaviour is similar between BoS and warthunder). 

However bombers are fun, and arguably a way for players who are not good at dogfighting to join multiplayer and be of use to the team. 

 

The behaviour at the moment is dogfighting. If the behaviour not change the bomber are useless. The MP need a Overhaul. I like Red Orchestra 2 MP you have limited numbers of reinforcements, you have a target, you have limited time, you can control the map and the most important part is that not all can run with a sniper or a tank its very good balanced who can be what.  And this MP Quality I would like to see in BoS.

Edited August 20, 2014 by Superghostboy

[malcheus]

It would be nice to have a "destroy the objective" kind of mode with limited bomber slots, not unlike red orchestra, but with multiplayer gaming you always have to account for illogic player behaviour and people attempting exploits. 

Like the 2 guys on red orchestra who grab the anti-tank rifle and use it to snipe infantry while the opposing tank mows down their comrades. 

What if the three players who choose bombers decide to go AFK or purposefully crash? 

What if nobody grabs a bomber? 

There need to be solutions to these kinds of things, otherwhise it will never work. 

What it basically needs is bombers that are important, but not too important. maybe give them the possibility to knock out the enemy airfield (for a while) prohibiting refuels and re-arms. 

This in turn increases the fighters' chances of getting a kill because that guy with the fuel leak couldn't land for repairs and is now making a snowman next to what remains of his plane. 

[Matt]

In the end, it will be up to the mission maker to make bombers useful.

 

But i have to agree, that i don't see a lot of options for medium/heavy bombers like the He-111 on the Stalingrad map. They are not that useful for attacking ground forces and bombing the town also does not make that much sense at the stage of battle BoS currently covers. Bombing airfields also does not work that well, because you can't damage the runway itself and destroying the hangars and other objects, which are pretty widely split apart, might also work better with a bunch of Stukas or 190 or even 109.

[Emgy]

Matt here you can see some bomber objectives from the New Wings Warground server in rof. Maybe not so historically correct example, but you can see there is a possibility to destroy airfields and a possibility to limit & make available aircraft types (and numbers) depending on completed objectives.

Edited August 20, 2014 by Calvamos

[Matt]

Yes i know, i was making missions for our server too.

 

But basically all planes in BoS will be able to take out a factory for instance. All planes have atleast 200 kg of bombs, the German fighters even more. Of course you could make this harder by putting lots of low altitude AAA around it, to prevent anything but level bombing to take that out. And maybe you need more than one fighter to do the job, but then one He-111 on its own might also not stand that much chance of success and finding lots of He-111 pilots will be harder than finding fighter-bomber pilots.

 

Maybe you can make ground objects (factories, bridges for instance) sturdy enough to withstand the bomb load of the fighters. But then i don't know the possible loadouts for the He-111.

 

I think supply missions would make more sense for the He-111, both historically and gameplay-wise, but i guess people would simply prefer to blow stuff up, than to fly supply missions.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Matt, "I think supply missions would make more sense for the He-111, both historically and gameplay-wise, but i guess people would simply prefer to blow stuff up, than to fly supply missions."

 

 

As my mother likes to say:

 

"The only thing boys like to do more than build things is blow them up or burn them down." She grew up at the end of WWII and the beginning of The Marshall Plan.

 

The quote was true until I discovered girls.

[76SQN-FatherTed]

 

What it basically needs is bombers that are important, but not too important. maybe give them the possibility to knock out the enemy airfield (for a while) prohibiting refuels and re-arms. 

 

 

Yeah, to make bombers attractive to a wider audience, and to get the fighters to protect them, they need to be able to hurt the enemy.  By that I mean the players on the other side.  Destroying a nominal strategic target to win the round doesn't cut it for me.  If everyone knew that a factory being bombed meant that no more fighters would be available for X mins, then it would give the bombers an immediate relevance.  It would also encourage fighter-players to adopt more "realistic" roles, ie anti-bomber, bomber-escort and anti-escort.

 

Of course this set-up wouldn't replace proper scenarios for those prepared to role-play, but it might make "public" servers a little less air-quakey.

[Capt_Hook]

I haven't tried multiplayer (yet), as I am still trying out all planes and getting the hang of everything; my question though: will it ever be feasable to specialise in flying bombers in multiplayer? 

It seems to me like flying bombers would be more about the big strategy and less split second reactions and dogfighting; which is a lot easier to get the hang of. 

On the other hand, in most flight games bombers are just big, easy targets, and unless there's a good reason to protect them, nobody will bother helping them. 

Not sure if they've moved off of 1946 yet, but I've flown with / against the [HVY] guys for years (or is it HWY?  Can't remember...), and all they fly is the biggest planes in the scenario.  They do it seriously, flying to 30K, and leveling objectives (and rolling the map) in one pass.  They have a great time.  So yes, a fair number of folks in the sim world love specializing and flying only bombers.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Not sure if they've moved off of 1946 yet, but I've flown with / against the [HVY] guys for years (or is it HWY?  Can't remember...), and all they fly is the biggest planes in the scenario.  They do it seriously, flying to 30K, and leveling objectives (and rolling the map) in one pass.  They have a great time.  So yes, a fair number of folks in the sim world love specializing and flying only bombers.

Yep, they were quite good and their P-47 drivers were a pain in the ### for us Luftwhiners.

[Sparrer]

S!

 

That you guys posted before, is one reason of the failure of dogfight servers with ground targets concept. The players just don't mind them (>90%). Why? Because the worst thing happen if you ground friendlies are destroyed is: "Enemy win the map, congratulations!" and a map rotate. And thats why bombers were useless. The objectives don't have adherence


But in a complex environment, like online wars, all the mission is design for the objective, and reaching it make sense for the whole war. Then bombers make sense, tanks make sense, artillery make sense....even poor fighters can be competitive, because all planes are usin different fligth envelope...not just for air superiority.
Also, even poor pilots can make his day by killing a big easy bomber and win the mission
 Even more, we need to remember, bombers are not just for bombing....but also for supply, recon, paras, etc

Also, regarding objectives and bombers, it reminds me about the coop or dogfigth dilema. Some benefits of coop system (just some reasons):
 -Even if some players don't mind to reach the objective, the AI will try to reach it
-It helps to prevent low number of bomber pilots issue: In coop, human take 1 leader bomber +3 AI or more....1 pilot and a lot of bombers
-When bombers are flying together, the self defense(turrets) are much more effective and is even easier for escort (bombers are not spread)
-much more

Even if we can do it in DOG+AI concept...but its pratical ? I hope so....but im a little concerned

Edited August 21, 2014 by Sparrer

[Pharoah]

Funny - I fly bombers 100% of the time and I've had a good run on the servers so far for the most part as I try to hide in clouds where possible. The ground fire though is quite accurate...almost too accurate. In my last flight I got wounded but the a/c didn't have any damage. Lucky shot? hmm. Still managed to land though. 

 

When there are no clouds, I just fly over to the enemy base and bomb/rocket as much as I can before I die. Would be great if the MP servers actually had lots of ground targets, similar to the quick mission map (ie. trains, tanks, etc), unless of course they're there but I can't seem them.

 

Otherwise its boring as hell.

[II./JG53Lutzow_z06z33]

I try to cover the Stukas as much as possible. On a side note why do so few fly formation in this game? A wing man is a key to success but very few seem willing to team up.

I hope they develop a Defense of the Riech expansion. My MG151's are hungry for some B-17/24s. I always enjoyed diving in and shooting a bomber then running like hell from the escorts in 1946 lol

Edited August 22, 2014 by OCTz06z33

[AbortedMan]

Get on the BoS teamspeak...there's always a handful of people willing to team up during usual play times.