The Combat Flight Simulation Environment (circa 2014) ???

[Skoshi_Tiger]

The computing environment is continually changing and evolving with exciting developments in Hardware and Software.

 

What developments in hardware and software do you see as having a place in a Combat flight sim developed for the year 2014 and beyond?

 

What Features and Attribute would you expect to see in these sims?

 

These developments don???

[Skoshi_Tiger]

Thanks for asking Skoshi!

 

To tell you the truth I???

Edited December 12, 2012 by Skoshi Tiger

[bolox]

Good topic.

 

TIR certainly has been a 'game changer'

 

I also agree with communications- but not in the restricted sense you use it.

I think the ability of users to communicate through the internet has  a much wider scope, the ability to create some 'enhancement' for your sim/game of choice and share these with fellow enthusiasts really has transformed gaming experience. Just look at the amount of missions/campaigns, skins, utilities etc freely shared for IL2 or the huge amount of free/shareware for FS/FSX.

Flight simmers maybe are by nature more likely to want to tinker  with things, which leads me onto hardware:-

 

while you can still fly with just a 4 button jostick, the ability to interact in various ways with a PC, TIR might be the most ubiquitous example there are many more areas for the 'brave' to mes around in, particularly in the attempt to create immersion, touchscreen devices showing ingame information, ability to operate controls with more realistic dials/levers/switches either physical or virtual. These sort of things are becoming more prevalent in the sim world, certainly  some users look or the ability to be able to do these things.

It's now relatively simple for anyone to make a control box using something like a Bodnar board.

Some simmers just love to tinker

 

[FlatSpinMan]

You're sad, Sko shi.  Okay, it did make me laugh.

 

Honestly, when it comes to peripherals related to simming, I am still in the dark ages. I have a Cyborg Evo twist stick. 

I hope it lasts me another few years yet. I suspect I'd love TrackIR but don't feel the need to buy it, for some reason (although I do have a hefty Xmas bonus coming in this week...).

I think it's mainly because my wife and kids would laugh themselves sick if I used one.

[Skoshi_Tiger]

Good topic.

 

TIR certainly has been a 'game changer'

 

I also agree with communications- but not in the restricted sense you use it.

I think the ability of users to communicate through the internet has  a much wider scope, the ability to create some 'enhancement' for your sim/game of choice and share these with fellow enthusiasts really has transformed gaming experience. Just look at the amount of missions/campaigns, skins, utilities etc freely shared for IL2 or the huge amount of free/shareware for FS/FSX.

Flight simmers maybe are by nature more likely to want to tinker  with things, which leads me onto hardware:-

 

while you can still fly with just a 4 button jostick, the ability to interact in various ways with a PC, TIR might be the most ubiquitous example there are many more areas for the 'brave' to mes around in, particularly in the attempt to create immersion, touchscreen devices showing ingame information, ability to operate controls with more realistic dials/levers/switches either physical or virtual. These sort of things are becoming more prevalent in the sim world, certainly  some users look or the ability to be able to do these things.

It's now relatively simple for anyone to make a control box using something like a Bodnar board.

Some simmers just love to tinker

 

Your right communications makes a Community! Half the buzz over team speak is about tweeking and trouble shooting and helping people get the Blenhiem started! (Not so much the Beast became quite tame after the last patch)

 

Tinkering is fun. Here is my Bodnar box

I've got the Hotas plus this device with a trim pot (Elevators is 10 turn pot others only 270 degrees) - this also is connected to my old thrustmaster Elite pedals- they were game port variety - bought in the Janes USNF days - but rewired to keep them in servise for another 15 years ) Though ever since the dog chewed through the cables the pedals have been a mite twichy!

 

One of the reasons I was never phased by the lack of pilot in the virtual cockpit was that the movements of the pilot would never match up with what I was doing on my controllers! Though it would be good for film makers I guess. Also the animations would alays be one step behind.

 

My HOTAS and controllers are so much a part of all my flight sims I didn't even think about it!

Edited December 12, 2012 by Skoshi Tiger

[Skoshi_Tiger]

You're sad, Sko shi.  Okay, it did make me laugh.

 

Honestly, when it comes to peripherals related to simming, I am still in the dark ages. I have a Cyborg Evo twist stick. 

I hope it lasts me another few years yet. I suspect I'd love TrackIR but don't feel the need to buy it, for some reason (although I do have a hefty Xmas bonus coming in this week...).

I think it's mainly because my wife and kids would laugh themselves sick if I used one.

 

Hopefully one day a better system will come about (There is one uses facial recogition BUT its a Hack and infringes the TrackIR patents and Interlectual Property) but until then I'll wear my silly hat with the dots on it! (House rule - no hats inside EXCEPT the silly one that Dad wears at the computer! MmKay!)

 

Yes your right, the family does laugh, but you have to push yourself through that barrier to reach flight simming Nivana!

 

Cheers!

Edited December 12, 2012 by Skoshi Tiger

[HolyGrail]

Nobody else is doing DX9 based flight simulator these days except for Battle of Stalingrad it looks like .

It will be year 2014 and beyond by the release.........others focusing on DX11 or perhaps DX12 already ?

So many folks did upgraded their system for CloD DX10 & future simulator DX11 graphics just to

go back to really old DX9 rendering by today's industries gaming standards .

Don't know what to think of it , dazed & confused .

[AdlerAngriff]

My thoughts on this are that the new flight systems like the Logitech G940 has made the plane feel life like, the Track IR simulates head movement. The next thing for me would also be communications, but in a different way. The PC game Silent Hunter V has a mod which allows you to give orders to the crew via microphone.

 

So I would like to see, at least in ww2 based sims (no radio in ww1 planes) the ability to execute orders by voice, not to waste time with a clumsy menu. Just like looking around the cockpit was clumsy before.

 

Also I would like to see a "return to the roots" in the future. I remeber games like Falcon 4.0 or Apache vs. Havoc and their dynamic campaigns. I sense that in modern sims there is a lack of immersion. Socialisation with virtual pilots (single player campaign) would be so welcome. For example again in the Silent Hunter V game, you walk around the sub and you can talk to the crewmates about some personal issues they might be having.

It's no rocket science but it does raise the level of immersion. You feeli like you really are part of this cool story.

 

Not having a campaign and award system in CLOD at least axis side was just unforgivable for me.

 

Also TUTORIALS. Okay guys after years of flight sims I know what the aileron does and how to "jiggle the stick".

BUT with a clickable cockpit and complex engine management I DON'T want to wait for someone to be kind enough to post their findings on youtube so I can start the damn plane.

[csThor]

Simply put the modern sims need to turn away from whorshipping of the idols of technology and almost exclusive focus on multiplayer and back to providing a broad fundament which can give more players something to play with. A decent campaign system would help greatly, although us simmers will debate ad nauseum which model is best. Me, I prefer the style as in the old Red Baron II ... not truly dynamic but highly immersive and replayable.

[AdlerAngriff]

I think that its' difficult for the developers to satisfy the whole community. As I am sure there are a lot of players out there who prefer the multiplayer system. However a good business model relies on research. I like the polls on the ROF website like would you like this and that, whcich do you prefer. It's market research and it's a good way to learn things you didn't know as well as making a profit and keeping the majority happy.

[gavagai]

I really don't care about DX9 versus DX10 or DX11.  I play flight sims for the air-combat experience, not to admire subtle reflections.

 

What I would like to see in the future is a Falcon 4 style 24:7 campaign system become the industry standard.  It has single-player and multiplayer in a single, flexible module.  There's nothing cooler than being able to invite a few friends to join my next sortie in a campaign that I've been playing single-player.

[csThor]

I really don't care about DX9 versus DX10 or DX11.  I play flight sims for the air-combat experience, not to admire subtle reflections.

 

What I would like to see in the future is a Falcon 4 style 24:7 campaign system become the industry standard.  It has single-player and multiplayer in a single, flexible module.  There's nothing cooler than being able to invite a few friends to join my next sortie in a campaign that I've been playing single-player.

I, personally, absolutely disliked the technocratic, unimmersive and bland presentation of the Falcon 4 campaign. No pilot personality, no real incorporation into the events, no "storytelling", not even an attempt at liking the player to a squadron. Nada. Instead we had simming heresies like "jump to aircraft in flight", "pick your mission" etc ... The underlying engine was brilliant, the presentation utterly sub-standard. Too bad.

[AdlerAngriff]

All of this raises quite a good topic. My first game was Air Warrior II. The upside was that you could fly from the wwI era all the way to Korea. The menu screen would always change. It was a German hangar if you were german, North Korean and so forth. However the graphics were very primitive.

 

Then Falcon 4.0 had this amazing real time campaign system. However I always wanted that pilot immersion. I was hoping that by now someone would make the pilots story. The story of the squadron. I want to "feel bad" when a squadmate dies, because we drank beer and he has a cute 10 yo son.

 

Microsoft Combat Flight Simulator 2 had an interesting story telling mode. It was like a comic book??

 

So yeah I hope that the devs take this somewhat into account.

[gavagai]

csThor,

 

Were you aware that every squadron in a Falcon 4 campaign has its own pilot roster, including friendly and enemy squadrons?

 

 

More story-telling is always good, too, I agree.

[Sim]

For hardware:

 

1. I would like to see Oculus Rift to take off and work as advertised/intended.

 

2. I would like a new headtracker to be released. A wireless headtracker based on gyroscope/accelerometer and not the stone age IR technology (Track IR, I am looking at you..). Also, some competition for Natural Point should be a good thing.

[AdlerAngriff]

And intaraction wia touchscreen.

 

All this tech talk is making me antsy......how much mones is there to be spent on this??!

[Skoshi_Tiger]

I'ld like to be able to export the readings of cockpit instruments to external device. Similar to the IL2 devicelink functions or like DCS A-10's ability to put the CMFD on a seperate screen.

 

There are alot of people right into their sim pits and it would be good to beable to use the 3rd party guages.

 

Personally I wouldn't play A-10 without my TM MFD's on a second screen. Though since CoD was releast they have been gathering dust a bit!

[bolox]

I'ld like to be able to export the readings of cockpit instruments to external device. Similar to the IL2 devicelink functions

absolutely- but then I'm biased, having spent quite some time making UDPspeed panels for IL2

I was even considering making a serious stab at trying to get data output going from script for CoD as a project for next year (probably beyond my capabilities- but an expert is merely someone who has made all possible mistakes   ),

I know there was something similar going on at Sukhoi

[flyingblind]

With the issues surrounding CloD, ROF and the forthcoming BoS there seem to be some fundamental problems with our genre in particular. The ever increasing power and technological advances with computer hardware and the software that can run on it invites the holy grail of what all simers want - as complete immersion and reality as possible. A few years ago the hardware could not physically provide enough power to run photorealistic video, multiple, interactive objects and complex systems such as weather. Today this is all becoming more possible with every hardware upgrade.

 

The real problem now seems to be the time, expense and skill needed by the software developers to develope something that exploits the possibilities and still turn a profit. The best bet for game houses seems to be to aim for the least discerning end of the market found on consoles where the users generally do not care so much for the multi-layered depths available on a PC.

 

It would be very sad if, just when our computers were delivering the goods, it has become too expensive for anybody to develope what we really want. We have had a taster with CloD.

 

Perhaps a sort of OS or environment for games could be developed that contained all the parameters and physics in one engine that could be used by the actual game developers to produce their own environment, whether it be 1940s europe or some corner of a far flung galaxy. They would be able to produce their own 3D models, sprites and objects. Tinker with stuff like weather or even gravity and decide on gameplay and scripts. And third parties like Speed Tree etc could produce addons or plugins that worked universally.

 

That way the unit cost would come down to affordable. Microsoft for simers anyone?

[PeterZvan]

Well - I would be happy with a good set of affordable, adjustable and accurate pedals (Simped is no more)

And a really good joystick - ffb (MS FFB2 with hall sensors and proper grip) and non ffb (very adjustable, hall sensor, metal bearing - must be much better than the warthog)

[Skoshi_Tiger]

Out genre is quite diverse, covering the whole spectrum from Arcade gamers to people who will spend literary thousands and the latest hardware and construct the most elaborate simpits for the simming enjoyment.

 

To capture the widest possible market a game would have to cater for all of these game modes.

 

For the hardcore full-real players, aircraft FM should be such that the planes are able to operated at the parameters specified in the Pilots Hand Books.

 

If the developers wanted to go further, you could include individual variations to simulate individual aircraft character, lack of correct maintenance or abuse by pilots.

Edited December 18, 2012 by Skoshi Tiger

[Skoshi_Tiger]

I think that mission creators should have the abiity to include picture or film clips of the target objectives or recon photo's into the mission briefings,

 

In mind I have images of the briefings in the film Mosquito Squadron  or the game B17 II where you got to see a video of what you were suposed to attack.

 

Also if your in a ground attack mission the option of playing back a B/W post mission pictures or video in a debriefing. (either your gun camera footage or post mission recon of the target site.

 

How hard could it be? Didn't the B17-II sim have it 10 years ago?

Edited December 19, 2012 by Skoshi Tiger

[PeterZvan]

I always liked the briefings in Rowans Operation Overlord (that was one cool sim for its time).

A re-make of that era / idea would be quite interesting IMO.

[theOden]

Very much like gavagai I hope for more falcon 4 features, be it default with the simgame or doable for the player like in sandbox games such as ArmA (been building huge CTI missions there last 10 years).

What I'm looking for is the "never sure what's going to happen" for total replayablility as in F4 campaign or in ArmA Warfare/CTI missions.

 

The storytelling is up to me as an e-pilot, no need to have it served.

 

Would love to create a Warfare/CTI for a flightsim one day but unable to spawn resources on-the-fly in either DCS, IL2Dover (works but not all out), 1946 nor RoF maybe the future will hand me that sandbox flightsim. Falcon 4 does it for me in the campaign only thing is I cannot choose what to get built.

 

Current community wishes (noise making part at least) for DX10/11/12/400 and procedual-sim buttons/levers is far from my wishlist.

 

When getting into the pit one should feel "I have a job to do".

[76SQN-FatherTed]

Here's a feature I'd like to see: trainer planes which have functioning dual controls, so that by using multiplayer you could learn to fly properly.  In CloD you could have a computer tutor in the Tiger, but to have someone who knows what they're doing point out what you should be doing in real time would be pretty cool.

 

Head-tracking without relying on IR would be good.

 

In-game I'd like more representation of changing weather conditions - specifically showers and fronts rather than either/or sunny/rainy.