Let's talk about our favorite warplanes

[BlitzPig_EL]

Exactly, I don't base my liking one aircraft over another by it performance, especially it's performance in a game.

[Jason_Williams]

And it devolves into an FM discussion etc. 

 

Jason

[Ice_Eagle]

My appologies. But I was following what was said in post #1, as it said nothing about in game planes.

[AX2]

Well the BF 109 K can certainly outclimb and outdive a P-51. It can also out turn and out roll the -51 at most altitudes. Certain speeds being the exception on rolls. Also the -51 isn't exactly a clean design either.

Outclimb maybe... Ok,  Out turn maybe,... Ok....but at any speed?

Out roll I don,t know, The G 10 or G 14 had better roll than K, The P51 improves roll rate increasing speed, more speed = better Roll Rate .

Out dive ...  we have a problem here.

The Luftwaffe do many dive tests at BF 109 F, with ejection seat, with G series Wings, and improved tail,  The maximum diving speed reached was 910 +/-  km / H 

BUT !

The BF 109 had very low lateral stability, exceeding the 720 or 750  km / H  +/- , Exceed those speeds was risky for the pilot, Then the Luftwaffe recommended to the pilots don´t dive beyond 700 +/-  km / H . The plane is not going to break but you'll be in trouble, " At your risk "

The the P51 had these problems in Dive ?

I think NOT !

Don´t forget the P51  had many improvements throughout his life.

 

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

 My favorite planes have always been Bf109, Fw190, Hurricane, Tempest and Corsair..Zero too of course. They just look awesome

[BraveSirRobin]

And it devolves into an FM discussion etc. 

 

Jason

 

FM discussion is the black hole of flight sim forums.  Nothing can escape it's gravity.

[AX2]

FM discussion is the black hole of flight sim forums.  Nothing can escape it's gravity.

 +1

[Ice_Eagle]

Yes out dive! Talking with a real 109 pilot, my great uncle, when bounced by p51 or p47, the 109 best defence was to dive. The 51 couldn't match the speed, and had to pull up much sooner. And for speeds as I said faster at certain altitudes. All this In real life. 25+ years of studying 109 vs its main foes. 1vs1. This mind you wasn't 100% of the time. and I'm not saying the 109 was the best.

[Lord_Haw-Haw]

Give me a Do 24 and I need no other aircraft!

It is big, it is slow, it is beautiful, and it saved many lives on both sides.

By the way one of the few aircraft both axis and allies flew!

[=IRFC=Tunes]

Talking with a real 109 pilot, my great uncle, when bounced by ... p47, the 109 best defence was to dive.

I'm assuming your uncle was shot down several times, no?

Edited August 15, 2013 by Artun

[FuriousMeow]

I'm assuming your uncle was shot down several times, no?

Most likely. I'm not sure where this great 109 diving came from.

 

Anyway, I was chased by  P-47.  I knew exactly that in a dive P-47 is much faster than 109.  And the P-47 has a much higher structural strength. They can go up to 1400 kilometers per hour. The 109, if you go to 1000, pull it up, you risk that the wings come off.  So I went down from that, bang, bang, bang.  I was chased by what we call line abreast, 4 p-47s.  And all that shooting here and all of a sudden bang. The left hand was on the throttle and came off and the thumb was off.  Finally, I managed.  This was a very traumatic thing, certainly.  I pull up, when I was down, to the stalling point.  The couldn't follow me because these P-47 wanted to fly back to England.  And I want to get rid of my airplane. I don't care for the airplane, I want to get out of this.  I managed that.  This was very difficult because I was hanging outside. I couldn't operate with this hand, nothing.  Finally it worked and I pulled the parachute way down and I came down safely and was hanging on a tree.

 

http://www.virtualpilots.fi/hist/WW2History-GuntherRallEnglish.html

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

 I thought this was a thread about fave planes, not FM or which one is best

[Ice_Eagle]

Yes. By a P-47, about 10 seconds after he shot down a P-47. He had to bail at 400 meters. This was in late January 1945. He was in Bodenplatte, where he shot down a 47 at Y-22. Made it back no problem. Then a Boston in mid January, then finally the 47 in late January. He ended the war flying with JG 77 by surrendering to the Americans.

[=IRFC=Tunes]

Explain how he dove away from the 47 when they were on the deck?

[StG2_xgitarrist]

Both numbers (1000 kmh and 1400 kmh) sound to me unrealistic. Maybe Rall didnt recall the right numbers...

 

As far as I know only the ME262 was near the sound-barrier in a dive.

[FuriousMeow]

P47C:

 

Dive

16.            The P-47C dives very fast. Its initial acceleration is good an it quickly reaches its limiting figures (520 m.p.h., I.A.S. at 10,000 feet, 450 m.p.h. at 20,000 feet). At these speeds the recovery needs several thousand feet and can only be effected by careful use of the trimming tab. There is no tendency to recover fiercely from the dive, but a large amount of left trim is required on the rudder to hold the aircraft straight.

 

But that's in IAS, which is typically lower than TAS at altitude.

 

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/p-47/p-47c-afdu.html

 

Yes, he probably didn't have the values right - but still the 109 can't dive away from a P47 in an extended dive. Especially after the G series, controlling the elevator was like moving a stick in dried cement.

Edited August 15, 2013 by FuriousMeow

[Ice_Eagle]

General Rall was on the deck with those red nosed P-47's. Not to mention he was in a G-5!

 

There was a famous British test pilot who referred the P-47 in a dive as a graveyard dive if high speeds were reached.

Edited August 15, 2013 by Ice_Eagle

[StG2_xgitarrist]

520 mph (3000 m). Ok, but still much slower than 1400 kmh (thats about 880mph). I dont think that P-47s were constantly breaking the soundbarrier (and being even faster by 100+ kmh).

And a 109 had probably nomore wings if diving over 1000 kmh.

Edited August 15, 2013 by StG2xgitarrist

[FuriousMeow]

I agree. The numbers are off, but we know he didn't dive away from any P47s in the 109.

[Lord_Haw-Haw]

Can we get back to topic? The last posts have little to do with favorites, but with performance and I am sure you know

the titel of this thread? And no it is not the performance thread......

[SYN_Haashashin]

1 - B-17. Allways loved the Flying Fortress.

2 - Spitfire, any of them.

3 - P-51

4 - Hurricane

5 - F4U

 

I will pay whatever is needed to have a new Pacific TO fly sim.

[AX2]

 

Yes, he probably didn't have the values right - but still the 109 can't dive away from a P47 in an extended dive. Especially after the G series, controlling the elevator was like moving a stick in dried cement.

P-51D, at corner speed, measures 48 lbs in a 3g pull. Up to 86 Lbs at

5g's. The P-47D, OTOH, requires just 16 lbs at 3g and 27 lbs at 5g's.

 

The testers state that the Mustang was a true "two hander".

 

How hard is dried cement. ??

That is the question 

[FuriousMeow]

Dried cement is dried cement. I was refering to the 109 after the G series though.

Edited August 15, 2013 by FuriousMeow

[DB605]

Here's the plane that could out-dive all of your favourite ww2 prop planes so you can finally stop your off-topic debate

 

 

I wish i can fly it in game some day in future, along with K4's, D9's, P47's, P51D's La7's etc etc

[=IRFC=Tunes]

No, Rall fought with

 

I agree. The numbers are off, but we know he didn't dive away from any P47s in the 109.

 

Pressure buildup inside the pitot tube would give the occupant an erroneous reading at speeds close to 550 MPH.

[Rjel]

The thing that kills me is how we (Americans) are raised to believe that the P-51 was the most maneuverable fighter of WW2....ahem, except for the Zero.  Every airshow I go to with P-51s repeats this myth, and only the odd Englishman at the airshow winces because he knows the Spitfire was definitely more maneuverable than the Zero.

 

 

I have to laugh a little when I read statements like that. I wasn't "raised" to believe that. My daughters weren't either. Ask 99 people out of every 100 in America what a P-51 is and I'll bet you'll not get much more than a blank stare in return.

Edited August 15, 2013 by Rjel

[BlitzPig_EL]

I have to laugh a little when I read statements like that. I wasn't "raised" to believe that. My daughters weren't either. Ask 99 people out of every 100 in America what a P-51 is and I'll bet you'll not get much more than a blank stare in return.

 

 

Indeed.  We are a small, very small, subset of the population of our country.   Most people are totally clueless about modern military aircraft, much less ones that have been out of production since the 1940s. 

Heck, most people call any ship that is painted gray and has a gun a "battleship".

 

I just hope that someday I get to fly my favorite plane in the new sim.

 

[Rjel]

I just hope that someday I get to fly my favorite plane in the new sim.

 

That is my favorite version of the P-40 series. I didn't know any were flyable. So much prettier than the later versions, IMO

[=IRFC=Tunes]

Yes, a handful are still flying from all around the world! One of which is a Pearl Harbor veteran!

[Bearcat]

And it devolves into an FM discussion etc. 

 

Jason

 

 

Look on the bright side.... 7 pages and no charts.. although it did come close..

[BlitzPig_EL]

Give 'em time Bearcat, this thread is still young.

 

Thanks Jason for the original premiss of this thread.

 

It's good to just sit around and talk planes.

 

It's why we are all here in the first place.

[Bearcat]

The first plane that really got my eye was the P-40.. My cousin who is 8 years older than me had this tan Cox Flying Tigers P-40.. and at the time to me it was huge.. I was 5 .. and this thing was just beautiful to me.. My uncle was in the AF at one time , a crewman on a B26 in Korea and his flight mask was still in the house ( I was living with my grandparents in Pittsburgh at the time..) .. I use to put that thing on and run around the house with that P-40 making the airplane noises that a 5 year old makes.. It was great...  then I discovered the Mustang .

[theOden]

I used to like the Mustang, then I flew it in DCS.

[Freycinet]

Here are the lines of the Bf 109G-10:

 

It could be a sleek-looking plane. However, the square and blocky front canopy with the heavy framing just disqualifies it from looking anything like sleek. Compare to an FW-190 canopy...

[Foobar]

Ok let's have a fun thread where we list some of our favorite warbirds and battles. We all love planes and history so let's have some fun instead of arguing.

 

1. List your top 5 WWII planes. You can choose only 5. Feel free to say why they are your favorite.This is not a list of the best planes, just your favorites.

 

2. List your all-time favorite WWII theater of battle or if that is too broad then name your favorite battle. You can only choose one.

 

Just in case someone have missed that

[DB605]

It could be a sleek-looking plane. However, the square and blocky front canopy with the heavy framing just disqualifies it from looking anything like sleek. Compare to an FW-190 canopy...

 

Font part of canopy has always been my favourite parts of 109

[Bearcat]

I used to like the Mustang, then I flew it in DCS.

I think as far as sheer looks go the Mustang,Spitfire and 109 are gold silver and bronze...

[Guest deleted@1562]

1. Bf-109E

2. Spitfire Mk IIa

3. Hurricane

4. JU-88

5. Bf-110

 

Battle of Britain

[Freycinet]

Font part of canopy has always been my favourite parts of 109

Same for me: that blocky canopy is really the iconic part of the 109's looks. Gives it that brutal "war machine" feeling.

[AndyJWest]

I used to like the Mustang, then I flew it in DCS.

 

I know the feeling. I'm sure that flying to Berlin and back wasn't much of a problem - you only need to make one 180° turn.