Deluxe Edition Upgrade

[HeavyCavalrySgt]

It seems like if you already have Vol 1 - 4 of Flying Circus, there isn't much reason to get the Deluxe Edition, is that right? 

[Flashy]

Yep, I think its only for people who dont own any FC content and want to buy everything at a discount, rather than pay $80 for each module.. 

[jollyjack]

some $250 seems a quite fair price anyway compared to what i paid sofar LoL

[ST_Catchov]

2 hours ago, jollyjack said:

some $250 seems a quite fair price anyway compared to what i paid sofar LoL

 

I see. Let me get this straight. So, if I buy this Deluxe Addition, I'm getting all the modules I previously bought but at a cheaper price right? It's tempting. I'm always on the lookout to save money. 🙂

 

[jollyjack]

You got that right .... 

[RNAS10_Mitchell]

2 hours ago, ST_Catchov said:

 

I see. Let me get this straight. So, if I buy this Deluxe Addition, I'm getting all the modules I previously bought but at a cheaper price right? It's tempting. I'm always on the lookout to save money. 🙂

 

Wait for the sale..😉

[HeavyCavalrySgt]

8 hours ago, Flashy said:

Yep, I think its only for people who dont own any FC content and want to buy everything at a discount, rather than pay $80 for each module.. 

 

Yeah, it is definitely a great deal for folks new to the series.

[LukeFF]

12 hours ago, HeavyCavalrySgt said:

It seems like if you already have Vol 1 - 4 of Flying Circus, there isn't much reason to get the Deluxe Edition, is that right? 

 

Yes, it's every module and both collector planes released so far. 

[JG4_Moltke1871]

20 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

Yes, it's every module and both collector planes released so far. 

so far….. 🤔😃😃😃

[AndyJWest]

Yup, 'so far' is a nice thought. I doubt Luke will be more specific for now, but I can think of several good reasons why we might see further FC stuff, even as the developers concentrate on the new engine for Korea and beyond. Just don't ask me to speculate exactly what, because my guess would be just that, and clearly biased by my love of the multi-engined and aquatic...

 

[Avimimus]

6 hours ago, JG4_Moltke1871 said:

so far….. 🤔😃😃😃

 

I wouldn't read to much into that. I definitely want to, but I wouldn't.

 

6 hours ago, AndyJWest said:

Yup, 'so far' is a nice thought. I doubt Luke will be more specific for now, but I can think of several good reasons why we might see further FC stuff [...]

 

I've always thought there was some potential (one or two Collector Planes per year) - especially given that there is a lack of competitors... so the WWI crowd won't be migrating to a newer engine until they decide to rebuild WWI in the Korea engine.

 

That said, I think they have a lot to deal with between finishing the last Great Battles module, Korea, and the Pacific... so I wouldn't expect any additions (even if the Roland D.VIb would seem an easy choice, the Rumpler C.IV would expand combat upwards, the Airco D.H.5 would increase mid-war diversity, and the Caudron G.IV would really expand the early war, the B.E.2c/d would be a good opponent for the Zeppelin etc. etc. etc. I'm like a broken record at this point).

 

Anyway, so far as I can tell nothing additional is planned. Hope springs eternal of course, but definitely don't read too much into what LukeFF wrote!

[ST_Catchov]

1 hour ago, Avimimus said:

That said, I think they have a lot to deal with between finishing the last Great Battles module, Korea, and the Pacific... so I wouldn't expect any additions (even if the Roland D.VIb would seem an easy choice, the Rumpler C.IV would expand combat upwards, the Airco D.H.5 would increase mid-war diversity, and the Caudron G.IV would really expand the early war, the B.E.2c/d would be a good opponent for the Zeppelin etc. etc. etc.

 

Nice work. 🙂 But you neglected to mention the Morane-Saulnier Type L (Parasol). I think that's what Luke's talking about but it's hard to tell sometimes.

 

[Flashy]

18 hours ago, Avimimus said:

I've always thought there was some potential (one or two Collector Planes per year) - especially given that there is a lack of competitors... so the WWI crowd won't be migrating to a newer engine until they decide to rebuild WWI in the Korea engine.

Yeah I have been wondering what the plan is for the WW1 stuff with Korea and then the Pacific being the focus going forward. I am interested in Korea only for the improvements to the game engine, not the theater itself. And the pacific is interesting, but Combat Pilot will probably come out before the Il-2 Pacific module so, if its any good, I will probably play that instead. That just leaves BoX as the only WW1 sim which we will have for the next 5-10 years... I am getting tired of beating the same dead horse, but I think the case of the Be2 is even better now that the Zeppelin exists, and an early-war 2-seater for the Germans and French as well will go a long way in completing the FC planeset..

 

[Avimimus]

Yes, I've totally come around on the B.E.2 now that the Zeppelin exists - although it is a less attractive playable early two-seater than the Caudron G.IV or Morane-Saulnier L. Any of the three would contribute to the sim greatly. Note: The B.E.2, Caudron G.IV and Morane-Saulnier L all had single-seat fighter variants that saw service. It'd really expand the 'Fokker Scourge' era.

 

However, I think it is quite unlikely without a third party getting involved.

 

Still very cool to think about.

[ST_Catchov]

4 hours ago, Avimimus said:

The B.E.2, Caudron G.IV and Morane-Saulnier L all had single-seat fighter variants that saw service. It'd really expand the 'Fokker Scourge' era.

 

YES! Meet the magnificent B.E.12 single seat fighter and Zeppelin destroyer spreading the fear amongst the Bosch! I'd want her in any Deluxe Edition. 🙂 Aesthetically appealing with unmatched beauty sure, but do not be deceived, she is a killer. 

 

 

[Avimimus]

It is amazing how small a plane it was - having seen one in real life. They did also shoot down almost half of all Zeppelins destroyed in air-to-air combat (mainly B.E.2 rather than B.E.12 if I recall). The B.E.2c/d (yes the older variant) soldiered on into the middle of 1917... so the B.E.12 and B.E.12b may have been more a result of a lack of alternatives. They were also being used as bombers. Still, fascinating aircraft and a good way to expand the diversity of the 1916 era!

 

The B.E.2 had already been regularly used as a single-seat bomber, since it had trouble carrying both an observer and bombs, dropping the observer could allow you to carry more than four times the bomb load! So it is unsurprising that the B.E.12 was used as a night bomber for some time as well.

 

I find the Caudron single-seat conversion interesting (upper right):

 

It was fairly straightforward to just replace the observer with a fixed forward firing gun, as there was no propeller to shoot through. The aircraft was considered to be strongly built for the era and fully aerobatic, so it had some limited success as an escort fighter for other two-seaters. Outmatched by the E.III, but able to at least put up a fight.

 

Of course, the Morane-Saulnier L single seat conversion is probably the most historically significant, as it is the first - even if early successes didn't continue, both sides did try to use it with fixed forward firing armament and it downed several aircraft before reverting to a two-seater role.

 

 

 

[ST_Catchov]

Nice work Avi. 🙂

 

This photograph is allegedly from a Morane-Saulnier Parasol and illustrates the deflector wedges attached to the prop to deflect rounds when firing upon an enemy. Some would say such a device is fraught with danger, but this is war. Some fella called Garros I believe. The British said, nope, too gallic, we'll do the Gunbus. We'll stick the propellor at the back. The first fighters were intriguing indeed.

 

 

And then Fokker came along and ruined it all.

[Avimimus]

Although I think the Brits actually used similar devices on the Bristol Scout... although in some cases it appears they simply shot holes in the prop and prayed. They seem to have been almost totally ineffective though.

 

1915-1916 is quite an interesting period:

 

Stage I

- There were a both two-seat and single-seat observation aircraft (with the latter often derived from pre-war racers). These are unarmed.

 

Stage II

- The Entente introduced pusher types with forward firing gun arcs,

- Garros experiments with bullet deflectors on his Morane Saulnier L fighter conversion. Bullet deflectors are then used on the Morane-Saulnier N type by the French.

- The Germans started mounting flexible machine guns on their two-seaters, sometimes with an offensive gun firing over the wing.

- There is a rush to convert existing types to single-seat fighters. The B.E.2/B.E.12 is too stable, the Caudron G.IV conversion has some success but is too slow. The Morane-Saulnier L is nimble, but also ends up too slow. The same goes for the two-seaters - they have trouble catching each other.

 

Stage III

- The Germans work out a successful synchroniser mechanism (LVG C.II and Albatros C.III receive a fixed forward firing gun, as well as the Fokker E.I/E.III). The British obtain their Morane-Saulnier N after this (still using bullet deflectors).
- The French begin shifting multiple types of aircraft into night bombing roles. The RNAS and RFC are slower, with the RFC using the B.E.2c/d into 1917 in daylight operations!

 

Stage IV

- The main success in converting existing type is the Nieuport N.10 (which then gets reduced in size to become the N.11) and the Fokker Eindecker. Then the D.H.2 and F.E.8 also appear with superior performance. These Entente aircraft appear in much larger numbers than their German counterparts.

- The Germans bring out the, Halberstadt D.II, Fokker D.II, Albatros D.I/D.II. They are less numerous, but are often slightly superior.

- The Germans operate a few higher performance types with maintenance heavy engines (Fokker E.IV and Fokker D.III), although these prove dangerous to pilots.

- Higher performance two-seaters also appear (Albatros C.IV), as they temporarily have a speed advantage allowing them to catch enemy aircraft at some altitudes. The Nieuport N.12 and Sopwith Strutter are effective two-seat escort fighters in this period. The French also experiment with three seat fighters with some success (Caudron R.4) at these still relatively low airspeeds.

 

All of this happens from mid-1915 to mid-1916! The rest is more familiar.

 

I find it interesting that this complex transition could be fairly well represented with just three to five of additional types. Even just including the Morane-Saulnier N and an earlier version of the F.E.2b would go a long way (it'd also give a chance to add the field mod with the fixed forward firing gun). Of course, a pair of early two-seaters (Morane-Saulnier L, Caudron G.IV, B.E.2c/d, with an LVG C.II or Albatros C.I for the Axis), and an additional German fighter wouldn't go amiss (Fokker D.II would better represent the early mixed fighter groups)! Ah, I think I might've accidentally slipped from discussing history into wishlisting... sorry about that!

 

But the point is that there are some types that were numerous into 1916, but which were also present in mid-1915... so if one is careful in choosing aircraft, one could actually expand the simulated part of the war fairly easily. That is what I was trying to get at!