Dev Blog #373: Gulf of Finland Map

[LukeFF]

Hey everyone!

 

Today, we would like to share more information with you about the Gulf of Finland map, which is being developed for the Siege and Liberation module. You can read all about it here: https://il2sturmovik.com/news/895/dev-blog-373/

 

[ITAF_Rani]

Great job as usual..now I hope that recreate city like  Rome or Naple is not too mutch complicated...

😉

Best

Edited Friday at 03:31 PM by ITAF_Rani

[76IAP-Black]

I would ask for Moscow rework 🙃 for 10€ as an upgrade for the current BOM module.

Back to topic, it looks great and im Happy this map is coming! 

Thanks guys!

[Mtnbiker1998]

So, should we expect this to be the last release for Great Battle's before the shift to Korea? I feel like it'd be a crying shame to not give the Western Front one more "finishing touch" module to round out the eras/planeset like we got for the East Front.

 

Seems to me like the game is still just begging for an "early Channel map" DLC pack with a handful of 1942/43 US/UK planes. Certainly would be a lot less effort to tweak an existing map than building two new ones from scratch!

[ACG_Bussard]

Looks great! If such a large city can be handled without any problems, is there hope that the southern part of London will be added later? I mean, the Super Zeppelins are coming soon, right?

[LukeFF]

6 minutes ago, Mtnbiker1998 said:

So, should we expect this to be the last release for Great Battle's before the shift to Korea? I feel like it'd be a crying shame to not give the Western Front one more "finishing touch" module to round out the eras/planeset like we got for the East Front.

 

Seems to me like the game is still just begging for an "early Channel map" DLC pack with a handful of 1942/43 US/UK planes. Certainly would be a lot less effort to tweak an existing map than building two new ones from scratch!

 

We will share our plans in the near future for Great Battles. It'll definitely be worth the wait. Be sure. 🙂

 

2 minutes ago, ACG_Bussard said:

Looks great! If such a large city can be handled without any problems, is there hope that the southern part of London will be added later? I mean, the Super Zeppelins are coming soon, right?

 

Sorry, no, the Normandy map is considered complete. 

[BlitzPig_EL]

Was the cruiser Aurora there at that time, and if so will she be represented?

[Sandmarken]

Looks like another great map! 😁

[LuftManu]

This seems awesome! and this map has tonts of possibilities for many different eras and GB planes.

Gonna be great! Great work, team!

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

I hope the city buildings won't disappear when you turn the view other way and pop up slowly again when I turn my vision back as in the Rheinland map.

 

Edited Friday at 05:17 PM by 1PL-Husar-1Esk

[Kubert]

Looks beautiful. Do static objects as buildings affect also CPU, or it is purely GPU thing when they don't have any physics and AI? 

[plepew]

So with these large urban areas (Paris, Leningrad) appearing in GB, does this perhaps mean that some of the innovations in IL2 Korea may be making their way to GB?  Or maybe there is a plan for the new Korea game engine to support GB content????  Or maybe the GB model will continue to evolve for a while, stealing some of the innovations from IL2 Korea?  

 

I'm just asking, because while some are  assuming GB is being retired, I think it is still a spectacular sim and has a lot of life left in it.  The 1CGS devs have continued to evolve and update the content and underlying game engine and it still gives me lots of "wow" moments.  And they are producing so much NEW content for it.  Seems like a lot of work for something you are about to put on the shelf.  😉 

 

LukeFF  - no comment required.  I'm just enjoying pondering the possibilities.  

 

 

[Viktor33_33]

1 hour ago, LukeFF said:

 

We will share our plans in the near future for Great Battles. It'll definitely be worth the wait. Be sure. 🙂

 

 

Sorry, no, the Normandy map is considered complete. 

Are there any plans to bring the map of Moscow to the standard of the Gulf of Finland? Perhaps for money?

[sevenless]

Absolutely impressive! Wonderful map!

[Han]

2 hours ago, Viktor33_33 said:

Are there any plans to bring the map of Moscow to the standard of the Gulf of Finland? Perhaps for money?

 

I dunno the way for such business. BOM allready sold. We can't sell another version of the same map. Only what is possible is to improve existing one. But it should be at least zero profitable.

 

Somekind of kickstarter may be... 

 

You can share the ideas guys.

[CzechTexan]

Thank you for your dedication and time-consuming effort in creating this masterpiece of a map. 

[Marcio]

Magnificent!
Congratulations on the work!
Leningrad is turning out fantastic... fighting over the city without any appreciable loss of performance is fantastic.
Odessa and Leningrad deserve some aircraft from the beginning and end of the Great Patriotic War, such as the IL-04 and Tu-02...
Taking advantage of what's being done on the Gulf of Finland map with Leningrad, the Moscow map could definitely use an update, allowing for overflights and dogfights over the city...

[Avimimus]

3 hours ago, Han said:

 

I dunno the way for such business. BOM allready sold. We can't sell another version of the same map. Only what is possible is to improve existing one. But it should be at least zero profitable.

 

Somekind of kickstarter may be... 

 

You can share the ideas guys.

 

I'd definitely consider that. I often get excited by a sale and then remember that I've bought everything! Making a donation to support getting another ground object (e.g. Italian built Romanian Destroyer for Odessa) would be tempting for some of us. Similarly, making a donation to back-date part of a map (e.g. making the rail system for the Isle of Wight and Portsmouth actually match the 1940s).

 

My suggestion would be to (1) form a third party (2) make an upper limit on the amount of money that can be donated for each addition (3) divide the work into a bunch of small projects (e.g. updating only part of the map at a time). That way, if things take longer than expect, or a third party quits, there won't be as much to complain about.

 

If I could get access to a version of Il-2 with less integrity checks so that I could add more hit-boxes to the ships to make waterline hits more damaging (for instance)... it'd be pretty tempting to work on it for free!

[AcesDarthBubu]

Go with CDLC (community/creator) DLC similar to how Bohemia Interactive is doing, allowing modders that are passionate to have access to mod and earn and 1C to profit by publishing. Consumer like me to continue to support.

[ST_Catchov]

 

 

Hmm, makes one think dunnit. 

 

Spoiler

 

 

[Jackfraser24]

10 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

We will share our plans in the near future for Great Battles. It'll definitely be worth the wait. Be sure. 🙂

The way you put it sounds like another full on module is definitely coming 😊😊😊.

 

But even if it’s not I’ll still be happy with whatever you all announce.

Edited yesterday at 02:04 AM by Jackfraser24

[TempestV]

Look if you updated BoS using the Korea engine I would would pay for it as an expansion or DLC or however you packaged it.

[fergal69]

Looking great 👍 

[Jackfraser24]

56 minutes ago, fergal69 said:

Looking great 👍 

Sure does! I wish they could keep going with Great Battles, because the visuals (graphics, resolution and texturing) have gotten really good and I mean, seemingly on par with Korea.

Edited yesterday at 08:30 AM by Jackfraser24

[Avimimus]

6 hours ago, Jackfraser24 said:

The way you put it sounds like another full on module is definitely coming 😊😊😊.

 

But even if it’s not I’ll still be happy with whatever you all announce.

 

I wouldn't rush to conclusions yet!

 

But it is clear that there will be something that will make someone happy.

[ITAF_Rani]

IL2 GB is too cool to die with Korea release...many virtual pilots flying in mp,love WW2 theatre, so IL2 need future developments and other DLCs.

Hope Devs will teel us IL2 GB will  continue its life next to Korea...

[Avimimus]

 

  

1 hour ago, Jackfraser24 said:

Sure does! I wish they could keep going with Great Battles, because the visuals (graphics, resolution and texturing) have gotten really good and I mean, seemingly on par with Korea.

 

I have a pretty strong suspicion that all of our opinions will be changed after Korea is released... it'll be a bit of a dreadnought moment - i.e. it will be making obsolete that which came before.

 

That said, even if Korea releases over the winter, there'll likely be another year or two for DLC. Then one or two Pacific modules will be released. So we're talking about at least four years before we can expect a return to the European theatres... this is a nice gap where partnering with 3rd parties to release Collector Planes for existing modules would make sense: Aircraft like the He-162, Pe-3 would probably sell during this gap etc.

 

I suspect the strongest case for an additional module would exist for Flying Circus: There are no competitors using a similarly advanced game engine. So, technological advances won't render Flying Circus obsolete until the Great Battles team decides to make a new WWI flight sim on the Korea engine (and that is probably at least five years out). So they could even release a module for Flying Circus in a couple of years and it'd probably still be top of the WWI market.

 

Edited the thread to put the part which seemed more like a wishlist into the spoiler (below). The point was that there is still a lot of potential for Flying Circus, in terms of interesting possible aircraft that would fit the existing map... but I don't want to distract from the glorious  map work done by the Finland/Leningrad team - and I shouldn't be leading things off topic.

Spoiler

One aircraft (Rumpler C.IV) could extend air-combat to higher altitudes above the clouds.

 

Adding a mere three to five aircraft could significantly improve 1916 air-combat and extend the gameplay back to the middle of 1915 at the start of the Fokker Scourge. Not only does this have the Morane-Saulnier N as an opponent, but there are several two seaters which are slow enough for the E.III to catch, but which had enough offensive field-mods to dogfight each other (e.g. Caudron G.IV, Morane-Saulnier L, and LVG C.II or Albatros C.I for Germany are all possible candidates. The B.E.2 would also be an excellent complement to the Zeppelin as they shot down half of the Zeppelins downed in aerial combat - albeit mainly outside of the existing maps).

 

There are a couple very good look and reasonably high performance fighters left (Roland D.VIb, Airco D.H.5, possibly Roland D.II Fokker D.II, Fokker E.IV, or Spad XII), not to mention a couple good looking two seat fighters left (Hannover Cl.II, Nieuport N.12).

 

A bunch of these aircraft are so good looking that people would probably purchase them just out of curiosity (Roland D.VIb, Airco D.H.5, and Hannover Cl.II are probably the most eye-catching).

 

Oh, and if the infantry tech from Korea has modular enough code that it could be ported back into Great Battles - even in a very limited way - it'd be amazing for Flying Circus... e.g. to allow mission makers to improve ground targets behind the trench lines.

 

[AEthelraedUnraed]

15 hours ago, Kubert said:

Do static objects as buildings affect also CPU, or it is purely GPU thing when they don't have any physics and AI? 

Both. The CPU does most of the "batching" work, i.e. combining all objects in easy-to-render batches that the GPU then renders much faster than would be possible otherwise. So you'll also need a decent CPU to fly over Leningrad, although it'll be less important than the GPU.

 

Such optimisation processes are also responsible for the disappearing buildings that 1PL-Husar-1Esk complains about and the reason I don't expect anything changes here.

[tattywelshie]

14 hours ago, Han said:

 

I dunno the way for such business. BOM allready sold. We can't sell another version of the same map. Only what is possible is to improve existing one. But it should be at least zero profitable.

 

Somekind of kickstarter may be... 

 

You can share the ideas guys.

I'd say though, and I don't want to de-rail this thread, I reckon people would pay for an upgrade version of old maps. I know I would, especially if it was a bit of a package or updates to certain maps  

[Kubert]

53 minutes ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

Both.

 

Reason why I am asking this is, if we can expect the same performance during big battles over the Leningrad as over, let's say, coast of Kuban. Or, if scale of Leningrad will limit number of objects like planes, AA guns, ground vehicles around the city, due to game's engine limitations. I hope the city will not have too drastic impact on this, at least for modern PCs.

[plepew]

16 hours ago, Han said:

 

I dunno the way for such business. BOM allready sold. We can't sell another version of the same map. Only what is possible is to improve existing one. But it should be at least zero profitable.

 

 

I'm not sure about that.  I'd definitely pay to get an "expanded/enhanced" map in the same way I would pay for collector aircraft/vehicle!

[ST_Catchov]

 

Spoiler

2 hours ago, Avimimus said:

 

I suspect the strongest case for an additional module would exist for Flying Circus: There are no competitors using a similarly advanced game engine. So, technological advances won't render Flying Circus obsolete until the Great Battles team decides to make a new WWI flight sim on the Korea engine (and that is probably at least five years out). So they could even release a module for Flying Circus in a couple of years and it'd probably still be top of the WWI market.

 

Edited the thread to put the part which seemed more like a wishlist into the spoiler (below). The point was that there is still a lot of potential for Flying Circus, in terms of interesting possible aircraft that would fit the existing map... but I don't want to distract from the glorious  map work done by the Finland/Leningrad team - and I shouldn't be leading things off topic.

  Reveal hidden contents

One aircraft (Rumpler C.IV) could extend air-combat to higher altitudes above the clouds.

 

Adding a mere three to five aircraft could significantly improve 1916 air-combat and extend the gameplay back to the middle of 1915 at the start of the Fokker Scourge. Not only does this have the Morane-Saulnier N as an opponent, but there are several two seaters which are slow enough for the E.III to catch, but which had enough offensive field-mods to dogfight each other (e.g. Caudron G.IV, Morane-Saulnier L, and LVG C.II or Albatros C.I for Germany are all possible candidates. The B.E.2 would also be an excellent complement to the Zeppelin as they shot down half of the Zeppelins downed in aerial combat - albeit mainly outside of the existing maps).

 

There are a couple very good look and reasonably high performance fighters left (Roland D.VIb, Airco D.H.5, possibly Roland D.II Fokker D.II, Fokker E.IV, or Spad XII), not to mention a couple good looking two seat fighters left (Hannover Cl.II, Nieuport N.12).

 

A bunch of these aircraft are so good looking that people would probably purchase them just out of curiosity (Roland D.VIb, Airco D.H.5, and Hannover Cl.II are probably the most eye-catching).

 

Oh, and if the infantry tech from Korea has modular enough code that it could be ported back into Great Battles - even in a very limited way - it'd be amazing for Flying Circus... e.g. to allow mission makers to improve ground targets behind the trench lines.

 

 

 

I like your thinking Bro.

[AcesDarthBubu]

13 minutes ago, plepew said:

 

I'm not sure about that.  I'd definitely pay to get an "expanded/enhanced" map in the same way I would pay for collector aircraft/vehicle!

I would as well, more than happy to also purchase assets pack module like WW1 or WW2 infantry, naval ships and AI planes. 

[tattywelshie]

1 hour ago, plepew said:

 

I'm not sure about that.  I'd definitely pay to get an "expanded/enhanced" map in the same way I would pay for collector aircraft/vehicle!

Definitely would as well, and I'd say most of the folks on here would. But...we aren't the only customers, and I suspect that just because a few of us on here would, doesn't necessarily mean that it's feasible. We after all don't know the sales figures of add on's and what sells best. 

[kraut1]

23 hours ago, Mtnbiker1998 said:

 

Seems to me like the game is still just begging for an "early Channel map" DLC pack with a handful of 1942/43 US/UK planes. Certainly would be a lot less effort to tweak an existing map than building two new ones from scratch!

Yes I agree!

I worked a little bit in this direction, if you are interested you could try out...

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/92449-early-normandy-1940-map-mod-v03a/

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/92520-1940-battle-of-britain-mod-early-v01/

 

[Jackfraser24]

16 hours ago, Avimimus said:

 

I wouldn't rush to conclusions yet!

 

But it is clear that there will be something that will make someone happy.

Fair enough, and I wasn’t actually thinking that there will be another module after Odessa and Leningrad. But if Luke is saying it’s worth the wait then I believe something worthwhile waiting for is in the works.
 

Again, I would be over the moon if there was a late 1944-early 45 Eastern Front module for Great Battles (as it would complement Bodenplatte concurrently) but being real, I don’t think it’s part of their plans for the future.

 

But I look forwards to whatever is coming. 

16 hours ago, Avimimus said:

I have a pretty strong suspicion that all of our opinions will be changed after Korea is released... it'll be a bit of a dreadnought moment - i.e. it will be making obsolete that which came before.

  Reveal hidden contents

One aircraft (Rumpler C.IV) could extend air-combat to higher altitudes above the clouds.

 

Adding a mere three to five aircraft could significantly improve 1916 air-combat and extend the gameplay back to the middle of 1915 at the start of the Fokker Scourge. Not only does this have the Morane-Saulnier N as an opponent, but there are several two seaters which are slow enough for the E.III to catch, but which had enough offensive field-mods to dogfight each other (e.g. Caudron G.IV, Morane-Saulnier L, and LVG C.II or Albatros C.I for Germany are all possible candidates. The B.E.2 would also be an excellent complement to the Zeppelin as they shot down half of the Zeppelins downed in aerial combat - albeit mainly outside of the existing maps).

 

There are a couple very good look and reasonably high performance fighters left (Roland D.VIb, Airco D.H.5, possibly Roland D.II Fokker D.II, Fokker E.IV, or Spad XII), not to mention a couple good looking two seat fighters left (Hannover Cl.II, Nieuport N.12).

 

A bunch of these aircraft are so good looking that people would probably purchase them just out of curiosity (Roland D.VIb, Airco D.H.5, and Hannover Cl.II are probably the most eye-catching).

 

Oh, and if the infantry tech from Korea has modular enough code that it could be ported back into Great Battles - even in a very limited way - it'd be amazing for Flying Circus... e.g. to allow mission makers to improve ground targets behind the trench lines.

 

Agreed. I guess I am just a little disappointed that Great Battles cannot go on. I would like for the AI to be much better, and for a better command system for our wingmen. But that would cost a huge amount for the company. Personally I think it is in desperate need of doing, but money and manpower is limited.

 

I’m sure Korea will address both these things anyway, but still, I would have liked to have been able to rely on wingmen I could make specific commands to. But again, I’m sure you’re right. Our opinions will change once Korea is released. 

[Von_Fontlebottom]

Hmmmm.... This doesn't appear to be appropriate for WWI. 

[Alan_Grey]

Somewhere deep down I hope for Murmansk or Kurland 😀

[Jackfraser24]

3 minutes ago, Alan_Grey said:

Somewhere deep down I hope for Murmansk or Kurland 😀

Murmansk would make a lot of sense because that is where the ports were for the Altantic-Arctic convoys.

 

I think we are getting a little off topic. I don't want to be warned again. 

[Avimimus]

5 hours ago, Jackfraser24 said:

Murmansk would make a lot of sense because that is where the ports were for the Altantic-Arctic convoys.

 

I think we are getting a little off topic. I don't want to be warned again. 

 

Thanks for reminding us all that this is a thread about this wonderful map work, rather than a wishlist thread!

 

 

8 hours ago, Jackfraser24 said:

Again, I would be over the moon if there was a late 1944-early 45 Eastern Front module for Great Battles (as it would complement Bodenplatte concurrently) but being real, I don’t think it’s part of their plans for the future.

 

The Siege and Liberation module includes that Yak-3, La-7, and Il-2 1944, and Ju-87D-5 - all late war types. While there were late war bombers, they didn't tend to replace existing types (e.g. Tu-2 was always outnumbered by Pe-2) and/or shifted exclusively to night use (e.g. Do-217 and Ju-188). Other than that, we're mainly talking about minor variants, many of which weren't that numerous. So the only thing missing is really the map. Otherwise such a module is being created.

 

 

8 hours ago, Jackfraser24 said:

Agreed. I guess I am just a little disappointed that Great Battles cannot go on. I would like for the AI to be much better, and for a better command system for our wingmen. But that would cost a huge amount for the company. Personally I think it is in desperate need of doing, but money and manpower is limited.

 

I’m sure Korea will address both these things anyway, but still, I would have liked to have been able to rely on wingmen I could make specific commands to. But again, I’m sure you’re right. Our opinions will change once Korea is released. 

 

I have a list of features I'd like to see improved (e.g. waterline hits with AP rounds for ships, an RNG applied to projectiles passing through branches, improved WWI AI).

 

However, I think, when we all get to try Korea - we'll all suddenly want to see the effort put into improving that generation of the game engine. It'll be such a leap forward, in so many areas, it will make everything else obsolete.

 

P.S. That said, due to the diversity of content already made - I could see doing something like porting back a couple of modular features (e.g. infantry) into Great Battles, adding a couple of Collector Planes, and then selling it as an 'anniversary edition' in a couple of years. The developers may well want to focus all their resources on the Pacific by that point though.