The sad situation around TFS is the silence is deafening

[Mysticpuma]

I decided to rename it "CloD Nukem Forever" based on the development time.

There was a little voice that posted on Facebook with some encouraging news recently.

@Blitzen posted:

 

"New and apparently last Debug VR beta test patch now available over at ATAG. As this the “last” test patch it may mean that we are close to getting a fully operational ( and fully landscaped,) CloD DW and just maybe a little closer to all promised by CloD Dieppe “Focke Wulfs and Fortresses?”"

 

That would just leave Truesky, Speedtree and the rest of the VU to be completed, along with all of the promised aircraft.

But in reality, with the following list of aircraft announced nearly 2-years ago, 

Focke-Wulf 190A-1

Focke-Wulf 190A-2

Focke-Wulf 190A-3

Messerschmitt Bf-109G-2

Messerschmitt Bf-110F-1

Messerschmitt Bf-110F-2

Junkers Ju-88C-6

Junkers Ju-88A-4

Spitfire Mk VC

Spitfire Mk VC 'Clipped Wing'

Spitfire Mk IXA

P-51A-83

P-51A-91

B-17E

Wellington III

Beaufighter VIC

Typhoon Mk IA

Typhoon Mk IB

 

There have only been a handful of screenshots of the Typhoon actually in game. All the rest are yet to be seen in action, imported in-game. And based on that, December 2026 is probably the earliest this will appear ...maybe 🤔 

The interaction from the team lead and department heads is beyond pathetic. They'll be lucky to have 20 people still around waiting for this to appear. I feel frustrated for the PR guy Soto. Been there, done that.

 

Will any of the team engage with their community and give a true update on progress?

[Dagwoodyt]

3 hours ago, Mysticpuma said:

Will any of the team engage with their community and give a true update on progress?

Even if TFS did choose to reengage, why would the caliber of that communication improve from what we have experienced in the past? It seems that no one has challenged the myth that FaF is a TFS "hobby". TFS is a business and needs to be viewed as such. If we are looking at a failed business model then that needs to be recognized as central to discussions regarding prospects for a new DLC ever coming to market.

[Lorena_Scout]

200 new post with same complain  made by the same 2 guys

 

[jdu]

45 minutes ago, Lorena_Scout said:

200 new post with same complain  made by the same 2 guys

 

 

without them this forum is dead 😁

[paul_leonard]

They are tiresome… but not entirely wrong… and I respect their passion… sometimes we need to hear things we do not like to hear.

[BraveSirRobin]

6 hours ago, Dagwoodyt said:

Even if TFS did choose to reengage, why would the caliber of that communication improve from what we have experienced in the past? It seems that no one has challenged the myth that FaF is a TFS "hobby". TFS is a business and needs to be viewed as such. If we are looking at a failed business model then that needs to be recognized as central to discussions regarding prospects for a new DLC ever coming to market.

There are only about 5-10 people discussing prospects for a new DLC, so not much is probably going to change until those 5-10 people eventually die of old age. Only then will silence finally fall across the land.

[Mysticpuma]

7 hours ago, Lorena_Scout said:

200 new post with same complain  made by the same 2 guys

 

But we're still here. How many have just given up any hope in the 8-years since the Source Code arrived?

At least we are dedicated enough to care, whether it is what you want to read or not....we still want the same thing, just news on what the current situation is.

[Avimimus]

Honestly,

 

If I were the team, I wouldn't post any development updates.

 

I'll explain why. Development updates serve several purposes:

- They build hype shortly before release

- They build a positive relationship with the community

- They can help with recruiting additional team members

 

Every single development update here gets met with constant criticism (including predictions of vapourware).

 

The constant negativity undermines any positive relationship, undermines morale of existing team members, and undermines recruitment of new team members.

 

In that context there is no point in spending time producing development updates - it is just counter-productive and a distraction from doing the actual work.

[Mysticpuma]

30 minutes ago, Avimimus said:

Honestly,

 

If I were the team, I wouldn't post any development updates.

Well they have already succeeded on that point.

[Dagwoodyt]

1 hour ago, Avimimus said:

Honestly,

 

If I were the team, I wouldn't post any development updates.

 

I'll explain why. Development updates serve several purposes:

- They build hype shortly before release

- They build a positive relationship with the community

- They can help with recruiting additional team members

 

Every single development update here gets met with constant criticism (including predictions of vapourware).

 

The constant negativity undermines any positive relationship, undermines morale of existing team members, and undermines recruitment of new team members.

 

In that context there is no point in spending time producing development updates - it is just counter-productive and a distraction from doing the actual work.

You are looking at this from a developer' PoV and totally ignoring the reality that the TFS managers constantly hyped, to end users, DLC's that they are unable to deliver due to lack of funding. All that hype I guess they believed they needed in order to keep selling an aging DWT that represents the totality of their catalog. They hyped TF 5.0 for years before its' release only to have it apparently fail to reach the popularity they had hoped. Two weeks after the TF 5.0 launch they decided to do damage control by publishing a quixotic roadmap for enhancements that would be provided to customers in the future. That was followed by promise of a "free" TF 5.0 upgrade that would include VR and other enhancements. They even made a promotional YT video to recruit testers for their VR "beta". Those recruits needed buy DWT and join ATAG. In that promotional YT video TFS even included text about a new WIP QM builder. TFS management repeatedly teased a major announcement of a TF 6.0, then failed to make said announcement, blaming their publisher each time. By the time TF 6.0 was officially announced TFS had lost so much credibility that their published target date for TF 6.0 was instantly recognized as ludicrous. That's why they no longer give timelines. 

[BraveSirRobin]

56 minutes ago, Dagwoodyt said:

You are looking at this from a developer' PoV and totally ignoring the reality that the TFS managers constantly hyped, to end users, DLC's that they are unable to deliver due to lack of funding. All that hype I guess they believed they needed in order to keep selling an aging DWT that represents the totality of their catalog. They hyped TF 5.0 for years before its' release only to have it apparently fail to reach the popularity they had hoped. Two weeks after the TF 5.0 launch they decided to do damage control by publishing a quixotic roadmap for enhancements that would be provided to customers in the future. That was followed by promise of a "free" TF 5.0 upgrade that would include VR and other enhancements. They even made a promotional YT video to recruit testers for their VR "beta". Those recruits needed buy DWT and join ATAG. In that promotional YT video TFS even included text about a new WIP QM builder. TFS management repeatedly teased a major announcement of a TF 6.0, then failed to make said announcement, blaming their publisher each time. By the time TF 6.0 was officially announced TFS had lost so much credibility that their published target date for TF 6.0 was instantly recognized as ludicrous. That's why they no longer give timelines. 

So you’re saying that they learned from past experience not to overhype expectations.  Why are you upset about that?

[Dagwoodyt]

1 hour ago, BraveSirRobin said:

So you’re saying that they learned from past experience not to overhype expectations.  Why are you upset about that?

The Enigma video demonstrates that TFS hasn't "learned". TFS cannot "learn" because it must always find new ways to sell more copies of DWT. So if they cannot demonstrate progress WRT features they have long promised via this forum then can still hype fantastical new DLC's, whether officially announced or merely proposed, via other venues.😉

[BraveSirRobin]

54 minutes ago, Dagwoodyt said:

The Enigma video demonstrates that TFS hasn't "learned". TFS cannot "learn" because it must always find new ways to sell more copies of DWT. So if they cannot demonstrate progress WRT features they have long promised via this forum then can still hype fantastical new DLC's, whether officially announced or merely proposed, via other venues.😉

Well, they stopped talking to you.  So they seem to have learned something.

[Dagwoodyt]

2 hours ago, BraveSirRobin said:

Well, they stopped talking to you.  So they seem to have learned something.

Well I think that happened when I asked for one-click video recording or asked about AI "target drone" behavior. Also might have expressed unhappiness when I mentioned oxygen masks. So that's not new😉

[354thFG_Leifr]

Are we still here? Amazing, always a pleasure.

[BraveSirRobin]

2 hours ago, Dagwoodyt said:

Well I think that happened when I asked for one-click video recording or asked about AI "target drone" behavior. Also might have expressed unhappiness when I mentioned oxygen masks. So that's not new😉

I wasn’t talking about you specifically.  They’ve stopped talking to the last few people still talking about the game in this forum.

[Dagwoodyt]

2 hours ago, BraveSirRobin said:

They’ve stopped talking to the last few people still talking about the game in this forum.

including their PR rep?😉

[BraveSirRobin]

4 minutes ago, Dagwoodyt said:

including their PR rep?😉

Sorry, I’m just taking Mysticpuma’s word for the deafening silence.  Or is he just posting random words because he feels like complaining about TF without having anything new to say?

[Dagwoodyt]

7 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

Sorry, I’m just taking Mysticpuma’s word for the deafening silence.  Or is he just posting random words because he feels like complaining about TF without having anything new to say?

what?😕

[BraveSirRobin]

Just now, Dagwoodyt said:

what?😕

I thought your “including the PR rep” response implied that there was a PR rep communicating to the “community”.  The title of this thread complains about “deafening silence” around TFS.  You, on the other hand, say that they’re promising too much.  Which is it?

[Aapje]

26 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

I thought your “including the PR rep” response implied that there was a PR rep communicating to the “community”.  The title of this thread complains about “deafening silence” around TFS.  You, on the other hand, say that they’re promising too much.  Which is it?

 

Both can be true, for example when a developer makes big promises and then doesn't deliver on these promises in the near term, nor divulges (sufficient) information about the progress towards delivering on those promises.

 

You can see similar sentiments for an unnamed flight sim that releases a lot of things in early access, but where it takes a lot of time for most of these modules to get finished, and people regularly express frustration that some promises aren't fulfilled even when the module leaves early access.

[ST_Catchov]

Okay, you blokes have got a gripe about TFS. Fair enough, it's gamer nature. But why do you have to keep opening new threads about it? It's overkill and a clear violation of Rule 10 imo.

[Avimimus]

Try to avoid getting personal (even if people have been pretty good natured about it in this thread), and try to avoid discussing moderation in the general forum (see rule 6 - but do feel free to send private messages to the forum moderators if you have suggestions). That said, the point about Rule 10 does seem to make sense.

 

I'm going to lock this thread for now.