89's mod for gunners AI Gs and Lead - adjustable

[89-]

I had two problems with the default gunners AI (and the "AI gunners (gavagai)"mod):

 

1). AI gunners are too accurate when their plane is pulling Gs. For example, in the Quick Mission against ace AI Gothas, the AI bombers would do all sort of maneuvers, but their gunners would be very accurate right in the middle of a hard 3g turn. It is obvious that the 10kg Parabellum gun turret gun weighs 3 times more (i.e., 30kg), plus it has momentum vector has different direction to where the gunner wants to move the gun, plus the abrupt changes in the above must additionally throw the aim off. TLDR, the gunners aim must be negatively affected by the maneuvers of their own airplane.

 

2). AI gunners are too accurate in calculating lead on a target that is moving and accelerating relative to AI's own moving and accelerating airplane. For example, shooting a target that is following them or is directly in front of them is easy (as the relative velocity difference between the two airplanes is near 0). On the other hand, targeting an airplane that is rapidly moving across the gunner in an arc with acceleration/deceleration is hard (as the relative velocity difference is large and non-linear).

 

Luckily the default turretcontrollerai.txt file has a formula that IS accounting for BOTH of the above.

Here is its translation from Russian:

 

// formula for calculating AI's aiming error

// calculation formula
// error along the axis (meters) = tan(
// random number * (AddCoef + ProjSpeedCoef * speed difference in the aiming sight coordinates (in meters per second) )
// * (current overload * OverloadCoef + CoefLow/Hi/Ace)
// )
// * distance to target;
// random number is a number from -1.0 to 1.0
// tan is the tangent. depending on the tangent of the error angle and the distance to the target, the final error is obtained

// coefficient of conversion of the speed difference between the object on which the turret is located and the AI's target, into angles error 
ProjSpeedCoef = 0.20f; //The original value was 0.05f

// default aiming error coefficient
AddCoef = 0.05f;

// maximum overload in standard units at which the shooter stops aiming and shooting
MaxBotOverload = 5.0f; //The original value was 16.0 (16g?)

// coefficient for converting overload into aiming units
OverloadCoef = 0.05f; //The original value was 0.01f

 

I have used the very rigourous scientific tools of hunch and intuition and increased the OverloadCoef fivefold (this makes AI gunners 5 times more affected by the Gs that their own plane is pulling); I have increased the ProJSpeedCoeff fourfold (This makes it 4 times harder for the AI gunners to accurately calculate lead on an object that is quickly moving relative to them); I have also decreased the max G where they would have G overload by a factor of 3.

 

How to test (we don't want any placebos here 😀😞 My testing was in Quick Mission "Survive", my SeVa vs 2 waves of ace AI Gothas. Try it without the mod and then with the mod, the difference should be night and day.

 

You're welcome to make further changes as you see fit. 

 

The mod needs to be loaded last, so that it overwrites other AI mods. To test, unload other AI mods and load just this one.

Long live Rise of Flight and salut!

PS I may have defanged them a bit too much, adjusted the coefs again. Now OverloadCoef=0.15f; MaxBotOverload = 16.0f;ProjSpeedCoef = 0.10f. This is work in progress and subject to more testing of course. File updated.

 

 

AI gunners Gs and Lead (89).zip

Edited August 3 by 89-

[Barkhorn1x]

TY VERY much for this!!  Will test this week.

[BladeMeister]

2 hours ago, 89- said:

I had two problems with the default gunners AI (and the "AI gunners (gavagai)"mod):

 

1). AI gunners are too accurate when their plane is pulling Gs. For example, in the Quick Mission against ace AI Gothas, the AI bombers would do all sort of maneuvers, but their gunners would be very accurate right in the middle of a hard 3g turn. It is obvious that the 10kg Parabellum gun turret gun weighs 3 times more (i.e., 30kg), plus it has momentum vector has different direction to where the gunner wants to move the gun, plus the abrupt changes in the above must additionally throw the aim off. TLDR, the gunners aim must be negatively affected by the maneuvers of their own airplane.

 

2). AI gunners are too accurate in calculating lead on a target that is moving and accelerating relative to AI's own moving and accelerating airplane. For example, shooting a target that is following them or is directly in front of them is easy (as the relative velocity difference between the two airplanes is near 0). On the other hand, targeting an airplane that is rapidly moving across the gunner in an arc with acceleration/deceleration is hard (as the relative velocity difference is large and non-linear).

 

Luckily the default turretcontrollerai.txt file has a formula that IS accounting for BOTH of the above.

Here is its translation from Russian:

 

// formula for calculating AI's aiming error

// calculation formula
// error along the axis (meters) = tan(
// random number * (AddCoef + ProjSpeedCoef * speed difference in the aiming sight coordinates (in meters per second) )
// * (current overload * OverloadCoef + CoefLow/Hi/Ace)
// )
// * distance to target;
// random number is a number from -1.0 to 1.0
// tan is the tangent. depending on the tangent of the error angle and the distance to the target, the final error is obtained

// coefficient of conversion of the speed difference between the object on which the turret is located and the AI's target, into angles error 
ProjSpeedCoef = 0.20f; //The original value was 0.05f

// default aiming error coefficient
AddCoef = 0.05f;

// maximum overload in standard units at which the shooter stops aiming and shooting
MaxBotOverload = 5.0f; //The original value was 16.0 (16g?)

// coefficient for converting overload into aiming units
OverloadCoef = 0.05f; //The original value was 0.01f

 

I have used the very rigourous scientific tools of hunch and intuition and increased the OverloadCoef fivefold (this makes AI gunners 5 times more affected by the Gs that their own plane is pulling); I have increased the ProJSpeedCoeff fourfold (This makes it 4 times harder for the AI gunners to accurately calculate lead on an object that is quickly moving relative to them); I have also decreased the max G where they would have G overload by a factor of 3.

 

How to test (we don't want any placebos here 😀😞 My testing was in Quick Mission "Survive", my SeVa vs 2 waves of ace AI Gothas. Try it without the mod and then with the mod, the difference should be night and day.

 

You're welcome to make further changes as you see fit. 

 

The mod needs to be loaded last, so that it overwrites other AI mods. To test, unload other AI mods and load just this one.

Long live Rise of Flight and salut!

 

AI gunners Gs and Lead (89).zip 2.29 kB · 5 downloads

Nice work. I will try this later today and see if it levels the playing a bit. I have always struggled against rear seaters. I know you can't just sit dead 6 and hose them down, but even in slashing high speed diving or even climbing attacks I always seem to get hit. Again nice work if this tames them a bit.

 

S!Blade<><

Edited August 3 by BladeMeister

[Von_Fontlebottom]

In general, can a modification like this take effect on already existing (think PWCG) missions, or is this data all applied during the mission loading? 

[Barkhorn1x]

On 10/19/2025 at 9:52 AM, Von_Fontlebottom said:

In general, can a modification like this take effect on already existing (think PWCG) missions, or is this data all applied during the mission loading? 

Should be applicable to ALL missions -  existing and new.

[Dr1falcon500]

I tried this out with DrI v 2 DH4 at ace AI. Tried my usual approach from below. Both DH's turned and dived eventually and were shot down. I thought the gunners hadn't fired at all, but checking video both hauled themselves to their hind legs got off a few shots and were cut down. Nice! I'll have to try against Fe-2b's. I've often wondered how effective those gunners really were? You've got a bloke stood up with no harness exposed to enemy fire and whatever else calmly firing away. So now I've also had 2 quick missions against Fe-2b's at ace level. Gunners start firing at around 250m only allowing a short burst before either they're shot or their plane goes down. My planes were Halberstadt and DII.

Edited yesterday at 12:28 AM by Dr1falcon500