jollyjack Posted July 21 Posted July 21 Setting up a bombers test with AttackArea.... He111H6 and Ju88a4 (one wingman is the player) wont drop bombs, but a B25 (set to Germany) does. Has this to do that the B25 is a total Ai plane maybe? Setup for the 3 flights is the same. https://www.mediafire.com/file/04u68scxw6pg7s5/Canterbury_Blitz_level_bomb_test_BASIC.zip/file
kraut1 Posted July 21 Posted July 21 (edited) 2 hours ago, jollyjack said: Setting up a bombers test with AttackArea.... He111H6 and Ju88a4 (one wingman is the player) wont drop bombs, but a B25 (set to Germany) does. Has this to do that the B25 is a total Ai plane maybe? Setup for the 3 flights is the same. https://www.mediafire.com/file/04u68scxw6pg7s5/Canterbury_Blitz_level_bomb_test_BASIC.zip/file I don't have much time available but maybe: Please check distances from the waypoints to the attack_areas and times of attack_areas: I suppose your planes have speed of ca. 6.66km / minute (400km/h / (60min/h)) = 6.66km/minute B25: ca. 15km to center of attack area and attack area time 3minutes He111: ca. 21km to center of attack area and attack area time 3minutes Ju88: ca. 20km to center of attack area and attack area time 1minute And for the Ju88 please check the loadout: Edited July 21 by kraut1 1
jollyjack Posted July 21 Author Posted July 21 (edited) Thanks, so far the same behavior, but will do some further tests, and report back here .. Changed setting waypoints further from the atack area command, and payloads, no difference fort He111h6 and Ju88a4. Read this from Sitting duck"s post way back: "sometimes (and heavy emphasis on "sometimes") populating the attack area with multiple objects for the bombers to drop on helps that. If there is only one object, they can just fly around forever trying to compute a bombing solution.,... Jay posted this a few years ago: --------------------------------------- Attack area command with attack ground will generate level bombing and dropping multiple bombs Attack area command with attack ground targets will get your dive bombers to do a shallow dive or level attack. Attack command with an object, vehicle, etc targeted will get them to dive bomb if your altitudes are appropriate. If they have 2 bombs, they will drop 1 on the first pass and go around. If they go all the way home with that one unused, they will jettison it when the land command is activated. reducing the attack area size will make the return attack faster but may not allow them to calculate the return and they miss the angle and don’t drop for a few passes. They aren’t great at calculating turn angles. The attack area timeout does not disable the attack waypoint, but just allows them to stop attacking and stay on station. You should use force complete and deactivate, then trigger the next waypoint or attack command with a timer. The leader is deadly accurate, but you can make the others miss according to the formation spread. V hits on both sides, edge hits off to that side, no formation is trail and they basically all hit the target. I don’t have definite answers to the other questions and your mileage may vary according to map and plane selection. Edit 1/2/20 Attack Commands info --------------------- FIXED added attack ground to attack ground objects .. BINGO Edited July 21 by jollyjack 1
357th_KW Posted July 22 Posted July 22 Lately I’ve noticed that with formations of B-25s and B-26s, using an Attack Area mcu set to attack ground, only the formation leader drops their bombs. I’m not sure why this is happening, and formations of Ju-88s or He-111s still seem to work normally using the same code. 1
kraut1 Posted July 22 Posted July 22 5 hours ago, 357th_KW said: Lately I’ve noticed that with formations of B-25s and B-26s, using an Attack Area mcu set to attack ground, only the formation leader drops their bombs. I’m not sure why this is happening, and formations of Ju-88s or He-111s still seem to work normally using the same code. 11 hours ago, jollyjack said: Thanks, so far the same behavior, but will do some further tests, and report back here .. Changed setting waypoints further from the atack area command, and payloads, no difference fort He111h6 and Ju88a4. Read this from Sitting duck"s post way back: "sometimes (and heavy emphasis on "sometimes") populating the attack area with multiple objects for the bombers to drop on helps that. If there is only one object, they can just fly around forever trying to compute a bombing solution.,... Jay posted this a few years ago: --------------------------------------- Attack area command with attack ground will generate level bombing and dropping multiple bombs Attack area command with attack ground targets will get your dive bombers to do a shallow dive or level attack. Attack command with an object, vehicle, etc targeted will get them to dive bomb if your altitudes are appropriate. If they have 2 bombs, they will drop 1 on the first pass and go around. If they go all the way home with that one unused, they will jettison it when the land command is activated. reducing the attack area size will make the return attack faster but may not allow them to calculate the return and they miss the angle and don’t drop for a few passes. They aren’t great at calculating turn angles. The attack area timeout does not disable the attack waypoint, but just allows them to stop attacking and stay on station. You should use force complete and deactivate, then trigger the next waypoint or attack command with a timer. The leader is deadly accurate, but you can make the others miss according to the formation spread. V hits on both sides, edge hits off to that side, no formation is trail and they basically all hit the target. I don’t have definite answers to the other questions and your mileage may vary according to map and plane selection. Edit 1/2/20 Attack Commands info --------------------- FIXED added attack ground to attack ground objects .. BINGO I have created with standard EMG by VAnder v89a 3 test missions with 6 bomber types (altitude 3000m, not 4000m as in mission name). In each mission one axis and one allied 7-plane bomber unit. Level bombing attacks with attack_area. Player plane axis last. I have observed all missions (AI controlled) and all bombers dropped their bomb load. Vanders mission design is a bit more complex: For a very short time very close to the target he forces the flight with priority high to keep formation (no return fire). directly after the bomb drop again priority medium. bomber-test-he111h6-he111h16-ju88a4-a20-b25-b26-ALTITUDE3000M.zip 2
jollyjack Posted July 22 Author Posted July 22 (edited) wow ... it gets really interesting. When i started using the ME about 4 years back i stopped creasing a historic Rotterdam bombing affair, could not get it to work/ Now finally i am able to finish it LoL (funny? bomber-test-he111H6-A20-4000m.misssion crashes my ME on saving, saving all as group and reimporting did not fix it but shortening the long zip file name to bomber-test did ). ............ Added: just found some downloaded Icky-atlas bomber groups probably from 2024: download: - Icky Atlas Bomber Flight groups.zip INFO tips found from Icky, but i am not sure if it's related to these groups: ------------------------------ BOMBING tips Icky_ATLAS If this can help here is the following process I use for my carpet bombing and setting city Heerlen on fire. (see in the forum Screenshots and Movies my short Heerlen story) 1) Decide where you will put the attack areas. For a complete city like Heerlen I have 12 attack areas each related to a group of three bombers (1 leader and two wingmen). Set the dimensions of the attack areas so that they cover the city but do not overlap. 2) Set the resistance value of all the blocks inside the attack zones to a very little number. I put 1000 or 0 is also fine. Very easy and quick to do. Just select all the blocks and then you change the value, and all will be changed in one shot. This ensures that there is damage whatever the size of the bomb that hits the area. If you want to have selectivity and preserve certain buildings then change their value to higher values accordingly. I was looking for total destruction. 3) Create linked entities for all the blocks that are inside each attack area zone. 4) For each Attack Area Zone I have a specific separate logic. This is because every zone does get hit at different moments. And some zones are factories and others are buildings. So the fires will be different. So you have to manage each zone separately. 5) Each block inside an attack zone when hit will send a message report "OnDamaged" (blue link) to a counter set to 1. 6) The counter is used to act as a dispatcher to target other MCUs and as a filter to be sure that the OnDamage signal is sent only one time. 7) The counter links to a Timer that links to a Damage Command. This one links back to all the blocks (or those you want to) inside the damaged zone and set them to Complete destruction. The timer allows you to set some delay between the bombs damage and the total destruction. Which is realistic. Damage takes time after the bombing to be total. If you set the right Resistance value to a block it will be only partially destroyed at the bombing and completely later due to fire etc. (8) The counter links also to another Timer that links to the Fire logic. Depending on which fires you use you can have complex logic like the one to sustain the City Fire. Just know that without any start effect city fire just burns with no smoke column and this is also interesting to use at night bombing where you do not see the smoke columns like in day bombings. So if you have many city fires without smoke, the CPU/GPU will handle this much better and you will have higher FPS. In night bombing you do not need the complex logic to sustain continuous city fire smoke. The timer will allow the fire to start after a certain delay. Do not forget that when buildings are destroyed you get multiple smaller fires automatically generated by the system. They do not last long but let them do the initial effect which is just perfect. Then you start your own fires larger or smaller depending what you want to do. So by playing with the two timers the one for total destruction and the other for the fires you can have a very realistic scenario: a) Bombs fall and hit a city block b) Some buildings get damaged and fires start c) The fires become much larger and the damage increases d) Everything is destroyed. 9) I have also set AAA flak 37 guns all over the city and searchlights. I leave them to their fate. No control here. Some get destroyed when a 1000 pound bomb hits nearby or not if it is a 100 pound one. 10) I have also put in the city streets a column of vehicles and tanks, and nearby the Railway station a train. Here I also ensure that when the vehicles are in a bombed block zone they get destroyed and up in flames. I have added a specific logic that targets the vehicles with their timer and damage command. 11) There is an issue however. Some unique nice buildings like the Railway station of Heerlen as well as another nice large city building cannot be destroyed. It seems they have no model of the destroyed building implemented. They do not react to anything even a complete destruction Damage Command. And you can do nothing because the Delete and Spawn command does not work for blocks. My idea was to Delete the building, then Spawn another building or some of them together that can be damaged so that to mimic a larger destroyed building. === But this does not work. Devs please can you improve this. Thanks. So if your computer can handle all this like mine at the most hectic moment where everything is active (goes down to less than 10 FPS when you are in the city streets but not for long), then go for it. In average when over the city during the bombing fires and AAA fire seen from the plane you get 30/40 FPS if you look at the city below. Otherwise you jump quickly to 60/70, and then over 100 FPS. In a few years with new CPUs coming (maybe from AMD this time) and future GPUs, and if Devs start using more cores on a given CPU we may be able to handle this kind of scenario at a constant 60 FPS which is perfect. ------------------------------------- Edited July 22 by jollyjack
jollyjack Posted July 22 Author Posted July 22 (edited) So finally a working setup ... pff: https://www.mediafire.com/file/6rtmlp97ieqhdct/Canterbury_Blitz_level_bomb_test_2.zip/file Thanks all, the main things: AttackArea BOTH ground and ground objects selected, duration of 1 minute seems enough, and keep some distance from the last waypoint to the AttackArea command Edited July 22 by jollyjack 1
Jaegermeister Posted July 23 Posted July 23 On 7/21/2025 at 8:17 PM, 357th_KW said: Lately I’ve noticed that with formations of B-25s and B-26s, using an Attack Area mcu set to attack ground, only the formation leader drops their bombs. I’m not sure why this is happening, and formations of Ju-88s or He-111s still seem to work normally using the same code. I'm not having that issue, they all drop bombs. As mentioned above, check your distance from the last waypoint to the target area. You can check this test mission for a working formation... B25_Bomb_Test.zip On 7/22/2025 at 6:57 AM, jollyjack said: So finally a working setup ... pff: https://www.mediafire.com/file/6rtmlp97ieqhdct/Canterbury_Blitz_level_bomb_test_2.zip/file Thanks all, the main things: AttackArea BOTH ground and ground objects selected, duration of 1 minute seems enough, and keep some distance from the last waypoint to the AttackArea command JJ, Are you trying to get the Ju 88 to level bomb or dive bomb?
jollyjack Posted July 23 Author Posted July 23 Level, but in general i begin to think that more that 3 bombers like a H11H6 are giving (me only LoL) problems. Still messing with the whole setup.
Jaegermeister Posted July 23 Posted July 23 (edited) 15 minutes ago, jollyjack said: Level, but in general i begin to think that more that 3 bombers like a H11H6 are giving (me only LoL) problems. Still messing with the whole setup. Well here are some solutions for you. Canterbury_Bombing_Revised.zip Revised Mission 4 = Level bombing Revised Mission 5 = Dive bombing enemy targets Be aware that the Ju88 is considered a dive bomber. You have to have activated complex targets. Static objects, buildings and bridges will not provoke an attack. Edited July 23 by Jaegermeister 1
jollyjack Posted July 23 Author Posted July 23 Just testing a general overhaul umptieth version ... i will load them and look-see, and let you know later, thanks Jay. 1
Jaegermeister Posted July 23 Posted July 23 1 hour ago, jollyjack said: Just testing a general overhaul umptieth version ... i will load them and look-see, and let you know later, thanks Jay. I could go into detail here, but you are better off just looking at the revised missions. A few minor changes and you will be good to go. 1
jollyjack Posted July 24 Author Posted July 24 Still experimenting ... sorry, i'll PM you something later, not really good thing posting unfinished business in public.
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