Stick and Pedals Movment of bf109e

[FlyinCoffin]

please show your joystick settings.. how do you set it up?

I still did not get the right feeling when sitting in plane(especially rudder). I use the Warthog with an 10cm extension and the mfg v3 pedals. Iam sometimes see at the moment sensitivity all axes 0.0 with  (0,5%) deadzone (100%) deadzone 100% 0,0(edited:feels amazing not anymore to sluggish)
i id not get the right feelings mean something like its ok but I was used to to a other sim. which did everyting correct and felt correct(it was dcs with modern jets dont they have precise controlling ai) ? and six months ago now the plane feels somehow strange "bf109e" is handling different and much more unprecise

so setting up the right amount of out in command for the stick. does anyone know how kg12a(how the stick is called) does anyone have more detail to how this thing works. (max. movment range of the different control units)?
the pedals I use who control the rudder are mfg3 pedals( with f86 pedals, i dont know why I dont change I have both) heighest resistance. So best would be I have modern ffb pedals with 320Nm(you know how much this force is it compare with  max resistance telemetry data of bf109 reached maximal Nm?) max resistance. But its to expensive right now. Also I dont know if Il2 Dover supports modern ffb at this moment it seems to new. mfg3 pedals with hydraulic damper I use the question is the pedal makers offers diffent "CAM" models. I ordered only "CAM 5". Which shall feel a little different then warbirds.
Little ad for mfg "CAM"   they are cheap expansion the company calls them "centering profile for MFG pedals"
i never flown a plane not even a piper or cessna
its like I still have to find out whats right. Some describe the behaviour of bf109e as "sluggish" that sounds for me a not native english speaker like its lol idk sluggish like it is by those settings with a warthog with 10cm expansion

hmm there also exist people who take out the spring of the warthog and change it with another one. do we have more detail of the kg12a anywhere?

bf109e turns like shit at max. speed km/h

(bf109e turn, rolls, lifts like  bad at max. speed km/h)
cause it turns more like s**t at max. speed due to "stiff"( not moving much aileron, elevator and lift).

 

 

 

Edited July 9 by FlyinCoffin

[paul_leonard]

CLoD does not support "modern" force feedback.  It does support what I think is DirectInput and it works decent with my Moza kit, but it does seem like you want something more than decent.  There is a setting I recall you have to change in the conf.ini file.  Also search the ATAG forum for detailed support on FFB. 

[FlyinCoffin]

 

If someone interested read:

 

 

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Here's an analysis of the KG12A flight stick and its behavior in the context of flight simulation, particularly concerning the Bf 109E.

According to www.iAsk.Ai - Ask AI:

 

Understanding the KG12A Flight Stick

The KG12A is a historical flight stick, and its characteristics are crucial for accurately simulating aircraft like the Bf 109E. The "sluggish" feeling you describe, particularly at higher speeds, is a common challenge in flight simulation and often stems from a mismatch between the simulated aircraft's behavior and the input devices' settings.

Maximum Movement Range and Control Units

Information on the exact maximum movement range of the KG12A's control units (ailerons, elevator) is difficult to find in readily available, authoritative sources. This is because the KG12A is a historical device, and detailed specifications are not always easily accessible. However, we can infer some characteristics based on its design and the aircraft it was used in. The Bf 109E, for which the KG12A was a primary control, had a relatively sensitive control system. The KG12A likely had a limited range of motion compared to modern flight sticks. This limited range, combined with the aircraft's inherent characteristics, could contribute to the "stiff" feeling at high speeds.

Pedal Resistance and Force Feedback

You're using MFG Crosswind pedals with F-86 pedal plates, which is a good setup. The high resistance setting is a matter of personal preference, but it's essential to consider how it interacts with the simulated aircraft. Modern force feedback (FFB) pedals with 320 Nm of resistance are not directly comparable to the forces experienced in a Bf 109E. The 320 Nm value refers to the maximum force the pedals can resist. The actual forces experienced in the Bf 109E's rudder system would vary depending on airspeed, engine power, and other factors. It's unlikely that the telemetry data would reach the maximum resistance of 320 Nm.

"Sluggish" Behavior and Settings

The "sluggish" feeling you're experiencing in the Bf 109E is likely due to a combination of factors:

• Control Sensitivity: The KG12A's limited range of motion, combined with the game's control settings, might not be providing enough fine control.
• Aircraft Characteristics: The Bf 109E, especially at high speeds, has specific handling characteristics. It can become less responsive due to aerodynamic effects.
• Control Curves: Incorrectly configured control curves (e.g., too much deadzone or a non-linear response) can exacerbate the sluggishness.
• Warthog Extension: Using a 10cm extension on your Warthog stick can change the feel of the controls, potentially making them less precise.

Spring Modification

Modifying the spring in a flight stick, such as the Warthog, is a common practice to adjust the stick's feel. Replacing the spring can change the force required to move the stick and the overall resistance. This can be beneficial if the original spring is too stiff or too light for your preference.

Addressing the Issues

To improve the Bf 109E's handling, consider these steps:

1. Control Curves: Experiment with control curves in your flight simulator's settings. Try a curve that provides more sensitivity around the center and less at the extremes.
2. Deadzones: Minimize deadzones to ensure the stick responds to even small movements.
3. Sensitivity: Adjust the overall sensitivity of the ailerons and elevator.
4. Aircraft-Specific Settings: Some simulators allow for aircraft-specific control settings. If available, use them to

 

1. fine-tune the Bf 109E's controls.
2. Warthog Extension: If you're using an extension, ensure it's properly calibrated and that your control curves are adjusted accordingly.
3. Pedal Resistance: Adjust the resistance on your MFG pedals to a level that feels comfortable and allows for precise rudder control.

The key is to find a balance between the simulated aircraft's characteristics and your control setup. Experimentation and fine-tuning are essential to achieve the desired feel.

Answer Provided by iAsk.ai – Ask AI.

 

Understanding the equivalence of 1 Newton-meter (Nm) of force in the context of a force feedback (FFB) stick for a BF109 flight simulator requires a multi-faceted approach, considering the physics of torque, the mechanics of FFB systems, and the historical context of the BF109's controls.

According to www.iAsk.Ai - Ask AI:

A Newton-meter (Nm) is a unit of torque, which is a rotational force. It represents the force of one Newton applied perpendicularly to a lever arm that is one meter long from the pivot point.[1] In the context of a force feedback stick, this torque is what the motor applies to the stick's shaft to simulate aerodynamic forces, trim changes, and other tactile sensations experienced in a real aircraft. For a BF109 flight stick, 1 Nm of force would be comparable to a relatively light but noticeable resistance, simulating subtle aerodynamic loads or the initial stages of control surface deflection.

To break this down further, let's consider the components:

Torque and Force Feedback Systems

Force feedback systems in flight simulators use electric motors to generate resistance and movement in the control stick, mimicking the forces a pilot would feel in a real aircraft. The amount of torque these motors can produce directly translates to the "feel" of the stick. A higher torque capability allows for the simulation of stronger aerodynamic forces, such as those experienced during high-speed maneuvers or when pulling significant G-forces. The relationship between torque (τ), force (F), and the lever arm (r) is given by the equation:

τ=F⋅r⋅sin⁡(θ)

Where θ is the angle between the force vector and the lever arm. In the ideal case of perpendicular application, sin⁡(θ)=1, so τ=F⋅r.[1]

For a typical FFB stick, the "lever arm" (r) would be the effective distance from the pivot point of the stick to where the pilot's hand applies force. This distance can vary depending on the stick's design, but for a standard desktop stick, it might be in the range of 0.15 to 0.3 meters.

If we consider a 1 Nm torque, and assume an average lever arm of 0.2 meters (20 cm) for a pilot's hand on the stick, the equivalent force felt by the pilot's hand would be:

F=τr=1 Nm0.2 m=5 N

To put 5 Newtons into perspective, 1 kilogram of mass exerts approximately 9.81 Newtons of force due to gravity on Earth.[2] Therefore, 5 Newtons is roughly equivalent to the weight of an object with a mass of about 0.51 kilograms (510 grams). This is a noticeable but not overly strong force.

BF109 Control Characteristics

The Messerschmitt Bf 109 was a highly maneuverable fighter aircraft, but like all aircraft, its control forces varied with airspeed and maneuver. At low speeds, control forces would be relatively light, increasing significantly with speed due to aerodynamic pressure on the control surfaces.[3] Pilots of the BF109 would experience increasing stick forces as they increased speed or initiated high-G turns.

Historical accounts and pilot manuals for the BF109 indicate that the controls were generally responsive but could become heavy at very high speeds or during extreme maneuvers.[4] The stick forces were a crucial tactile cue for pilots, informing them about the aircraft's aerodynamic state and impending limits.

Simulating 1 Nm in a BF109 FFB Stick

In a BF109 flight simulator, 1 Nm of torque on the FFB stick could represent several scenarios:

• Light Aerodynamic Load: At cruising speeds or during gentle turns, the aerodynamic forces on the control surfaces would be relatively low. 1 Nm could simulate the subtle resistance felt when making minor adjustments to pitch or roll.
• Initial Control Surface Deflection: When first initiating a maneuver, before significant aerodynamic pressure builds up, 1 Nm could represent the initial resistance as the control surfaces begin to move into the airflow.
• Trim Changes: Adjusting the trim of the aircraft would alter the stick forces. A 1 Nm force could simulate the residual force on the stick before it is fully trimmed out, or the force required to hold a specific attitude against an out-of-trim condition.
• Turbulence or Gusts: Minor turbulence or sudden gusts of wind could induce small, transient forces on the control surfaces, which an FFB system could simulate with torques around 1 Nm.

Compared to the maximum forces an FFB stick might generate (which can be several Newton-meters for high-end units), 1 Nm is on the lower end of the spectrum. For example, a high-fidelity FFB stick might be capable of generating 5-10 Nm or more of torque to simulate extreme maneuvers or stall buffet.[5] Therefore, 1 Nm would represent a relatively light but distinct force, providing important tactile feedback without being overwhelming.

Conclusion

In the context of a force feedback stick for a BF109, 1 Nm of force is comparable to a light but noticeable resistance, simulating subtle aerodynamic loads, initial control surface deflections, or minor trim adjustments. It represents a force that would provide meaningful tactile feedback to the pilot without being indicative of extreme maneuvers or high-G loads.....

 

 

 

 

it doesnt told me roughly 46cm lenght of kg12a with shaft

Edited July 15 by FlyinCoffin