F-86 and MiG-15 variants. Only the oldest F-86A and the newest MiG-15bis.

[=MERCS=JenkemJunkie]

Then all online MiG pilots should have a 12 drink minimum enforced on them for historically accurate skill levels. That will make history fun.

[=621=Samikatz]

I generally find that once you get to a mission environment with several planes the performance difference is diluted. Sure in a vacuum one plane might be better than the other, but once it turns into a furball coordination and skill will matter way more. Beyond that, good mission design can be a great equaliser. Sure a MiG-15 can stay above a Sabre and defeat it with its energy advantage, but while you're playing cat and mouse with a the Sabre (a plane that still has advantages, it's faster at low altitude and a better diver), what's happening with the ground attack aircraft and bombers?

[=MERCS=JenkemJunkie]

They'll be busy making so many booms that even the Migs at 50,000 ft will be able to see them.

[Avimimus]

3 hours ago, =621=Samikatz said:

I generally find that once you get to a mission environment with several planes the performance difference is diluted. Sure in a vacuum one plane might be better than the other, but once it turns into a furball coordination and skill will matter way more. Beyond that, good mission design can be a great equaliser. Sure a MiG-15 can stay above a Sabre and defeat it with its energy advantage, but while you're playing cat and mouse with a the Sabre (a plane that still has advantages, it's faster at low altitude and a better diver), what's happening with the ground attack aircraft and bombers?

 

I think people are also over estimating how good the Mig-15/Mig-15Bis was generally.

[303_Bies]

9 hours ago, Avimimus said:

 

I think people are also over estimating how good the Mig-15/Mig-15Bis was generally.

Yes, but many MiG-15bis disadvantages are visible only when simulation is deep and complex; like high sensitivity to stalling – especially at higher angles of attack, the MiG-15 could unexpectedly enter a spin.

Lack of hydraulic steering assistance – the pilot had to use a lot of force at higher speeds and maneuvers, which made precision difficult, e.g. when shooting.

Worse stick-to-control ratio – more difficult to precisely aim during a maneuver.

Tendency to lateral instability – at high speeds and in a turn, the MiG could roll, etc.

On the other hand we all expect not less then deep and faithfull simulation, especially the flight models, with all the strong points and limitations of different aircrafts.

[[CPT]Crunch]

18 hours ago, =MERCS=JenkemJunkie said:

They'll be busy making so many booms that even the Migs at 50,000 ft will be able to see them.

Korea's a big map and if your spotting bubble is as limited as the current games is we wish you luck, chances are you won't even see objects render that far directly below at that distance.  Only chance is if there's going to be limited and restricted amounts of targets channeling attackers into kill boxes again, than good luck finding me even bothering with this. 

[=MERCS=JenkemJunkie]

It's already normal to only use part of the map online, not the whole thing every time anyways, so a big map just means more potential portions we can use for more variety. It all depends on how the map layout is tuned, targets can be too spread out, or too restricted, but they don't have to be too spread out, or too restricted. As far as spotting goes, who knows what we get since nothings been said, but since they're changing the graphics technology in the new series it's very possible spotting changes as well.

 

One thing that I think can force the action is that since Red's ground attack capabilities are so limited, asymmetrical attack/defend style missions should become more common, and if the Blue fighters have nothing to defend, then they'll be forced to go into enemy territory to find targets, clearing the way for the blue ground attackers, or at least keeping the red fighters busy. Might even be a good idea for Red on defense to have less players (since defense is easier) than Blue (assuming blue isn't taking all fighters), and that's historical too, or enforce role swapping so teams take turns attacking and defending.

Edited June 3 by =MERCS=JenkemJunkie

[Avimimus]

Based on their Mig-15 video, the developer's opinion is as follows:

F-86A-5: Superior horizontal manoeuvrability, superior dive performance, greater magazine depth, better gunsight.

Mig-15Bis: Inferior horizontal manoeuvrability, superior climb rate, inferior dive handling, worse forward visibility, effective against bombers.

 

So I wouldn't be too worried that the Mig-15Bis will be superior...

[LukeFF]

This Sabre didn't have any issues. 🙂
 

 

[Hunter1324]

Saying that the F-86E was a in service in Spring 1951, seems a bit of a stretch given that the first E models arrived in Japan towars the end of June, and it was 18 of them.

 

Also btw, the F-86E had the same engine as the A-5 we are getting in-game while weighing 450 Ibs more, so it's more a trade off than a real upgrade.

 

Edited November 20 by Hunter1324

[Avimimus]

I suppose the main benefit would be the powered elevator then?

[jeanba]

Something interesting i found in the duel50 osprey book f-86 vs mig15, the main enemy of the f86f was actually mig15 flown by china, not 15bis

[Juri_JS]

3 hours ago, jeanba said:

Something interesting i found in the duel50 osprey book f-86 vs mig15, the main enemy of the f86f was actually mig15 flown by china, not 15bis

The North Koreans initially also flew the early Mig-15. They only got the Mig-15bis in late 1952.