Issue with Speed in AI Bomber Formation

[=IRFC=Eccho]

Ive recently been working on a combat box formation of B-25s for a multiplayer mission im making. I am by no means new to the mission editor, but I hope that somebody can provide me with a tip. Initially, and for 4 minutes or so, the bombers fly in great formation. But the formation over time begins to pancake, the higher bombers going faster and farther ahead, the lower bombers going slower and falling behind. I tried manually adjusting the speed, but it does not seem effective, even after hours of testing. It seems that the effect gets worse over time, at the start the bombers keep up fine, but they gradually pancake. Does anybody have any tips or suggestions? (Also they seem to get closer in altitude)

Edited April 23 by =IRFC=Eccho

[No_85_Gramps]

How many planes in the box? And are they all just linked together into one group?

[kraut1]

9 hours ago, =IRFC=Eccho said:

Ive recently been working on a combat box formation of B-25s for a multiplayer mission im making. I am by no means new to the mission editor, but I hope that somebody can provide me with a tip. Initially, and for 4 minutes or so, the bombers fly in great formation. But the formation over time begins to pancake, the higher bombers going faster and farther ahead, the lower bombers going slower and falling behind. I tried manually adjusting the speed, but it does not seem effective, even after hours of testing. It seems that the effect gets worse over time, at the start the bombers keep up fine, but they gradually pancake. Does anybody have any tips or suggestions? (Also they seem to get closer in altitude)

Maybe you find there some solutions:

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/90166-anyone-making-campaigns/page/2/#findComment-1345988

 

 

[Zooropa_Fly]

Spawned or Activated ?

[=IRFC=Eccho]

18 hours ago, No_85_Gramps said:

How many planes in the box? And are they all just linked together into one group?

18, in groups of 3

11 hours ago, Zooropa_Fly said:

Spawned or Activated ?

Activated. They are in groups of 3.

[No_85_Gramps]

Could you possibly export the whole formation as a group template, create a zip file, and post it here? That way we could look at the logic being used to see if anything stands out. I'm not an expert by any means, but I would be glad to take a look. I have a mission in which 16 B25s, 4 groups of 4, activate via a check zone trigger, they then follow their waypoints, ultimately bombing their targets, as least the ones that do not get shot down enroute. Attached is a copy my group.

16 B25s.zip

[=IRFC=Eccho]

3 hours ago, No_85_Gramps said:

Could you possibly export the whole formation as a group template, create a zip file, and post it here? That way we could look at the logic being used to see if anything stands out. I'm not an expert by any means, but I would be glad to take a look. I have a mission in which 16 B25s, 4 groups of 4, activate via a check zone trigger, they then follow their waypoints, ultimately bombing their targets, as least the ones that do not get shot down enroute. Attached is a copy my group.3.69 kB · 2 downloads

Thank you for being willing to take a look. Attached is my logic. I took a good look at your logic and noted the relevant differences. 

-Your formation density is dense, mine is safe.
-Your planes are much lower than mine.
-You have an extra plane at the front that deactivates after bomb drop? (I would love to hear why this is.)
-Your planes speed is set higher than mine.
-Your planes are much farther apart.
 

18.zip

Edited April 25 by =IRFC=Eccho

[Zooropa_Fly]

I've had a quick look (and it's been a while)..

 

 

I think you'll have to Object Link the leader of each group of 3 to the leader of the first group.

[No_85_Gramps]

16 hours ago, =IRFC=Eccho said:

-You have an extra plane at the front that deactivates after bomb drop? (I would love to hear why this is.)
 

Oops, my bad. It's actually 4 groups of 5, 20 total. The deactivate removes each group of planes as they go bingo bombs. There was never any intent to return them to a base somewhere. In keeping with the idea of not overloading resources, I elected to have them deactivate. I took a brief look at your group late last night. I'll take a more thorough look later today. What map are you using for this group?

[=IRFC=Eccho]

42 minutes ago, No_85_Gramps said:

Oops, my bad. It's actually 4 groups of 5, 20 total. The deactivate removes each group of planes as they go bingo bombs. There was never any intent to return them to a base somewhere. In keeping with the idea of not overloading resources, I elected to have them deactivate. I took a brief look at your group late last night. I'll take a more thorough look later today. What map are you using for this group?

Im using D-Day Normandy. The bombers are meant to fly from the British coast to Abbeville-Drucat.

[No_85_Gramps]

Ok, I created a single mission using the Normandy D-Day map, your bomber group, and a single P-51 to fly and observe the bombers. I must say that I did not see anything out of the ordinary. Bombers maintained good formation, a little bob and weave here and there, but they made it to the target area OK. I'm short on time today, but when I get a chance I'll create a multiplayer mission to run and see how it goes. 

[Jaegermeister]

I think after you analyze the logic, you will narrow it down to the fact that the bombers are limited to a max speed below what you might find quoted in internet references, particularly with the B-26 and even more so with a full fuel and/or bomb load. The B-25 will fly closer to it's quoted cruising speed.

 

With this in mind, if the bombers are flying at max speed, they will go slightly faster or slower at different altitudes. To correct this, you would have to set the slowest (lowest) formation at the max speed it will actually fly, and slow down the higher formations below the max speed to match. Depending on altitude, it is something like 5 kph per formation if I recall correctly.

 

All the planes do this to a certain extent, it's just more obvious with a heavily loaded bomber.   

 

Edit... Also I always use loose formation for bombers because they need the extra room when they spawn and jostle around to find their exact formation spots and in turns when they cross over a little bit. I would not recommend going with a dense formation if they spawn /activate in mid air.

 

 

 

Edited April 27 by Jaegermeister

[jollyjack]

Ah, now i have to rework a mission made 2 years ago, thanks for the tip, Jay.