Aircraft list (and possible additions)

[Avimimus]

I noticed that this kept coming up in various threads, so I thought 'why not make a thread for it?'

 

Announced aircraft

 

Flyable:

Mig-15Bis (Early/Late engine, cannon, and airbrake options)

F-86A-5 late (J47-GE-13; AN/APG-30 modification, so comparable to 'E' - except for high speed control)

F-84E

F-80C

F9F-2 (possibly a collector plane)

F-51D-25 (M2 equipped variant - evidence of M3 equipped F-51D hasn't been found yet).

F-4U-4 (Late 20mm equipped variant)

Yak-9P (ShVAK and UB equipped variant)

La-11 (Possibly a collector plane)

Il-10 (VYa-23 and UBT equipped variant)

 

AI aircraft:

B-29 (AI)

Tu-2S (AI)

C-47B (AI)

Li-2T (AI)

 

[Avimimus]

 

Combat aircraft serving in significant numbers (but not announced)

 

 

Jets:

Meteor F.8 (RAAF, substantially redesigned compared to the WWII variants)

F9F-4 (operated off land-based airfields).

F-86A (early)

F-86E (F-86 with all moving tailplane allowing higher speeds, radar gunsight as standard)

F-86F-40 (F-86E with new wing trading low speed handling for high speed performance, other refinements)

F-84D

F-84G

Mig-15 (early)

 

Props (without radar):

AD-2 (A-1 Skyraider, original designation - note: AD-1 was also used in theatre)

AD-4 (Twice the cannons as the AD-2, heavier payload, but heavier and lower performance than the AD-1/AD-2)

AU-1 (Corsair modified with armour, additional hardpoints, as an attack aircraft, used from 1952)

F-82 (retrofitted to remove the radar post-deployment, twin mustang)

La-9 (Definitive Lavochkin, four cannons, very high performance, lighter, slightly faster, and with less fuel than the La-11)

B-26 (A-26 Invader, redesignated)

 

Smaller numbers or unarmed (but someone has still suggested):

F-86F-2 (cannon armed field trial, two lost due to gas ingestion, seven aircraft deployed in total. 1953)

Mig-9 (Chinese, possibly two strafed - but not deployed to Korea due to arrival of Mig-15Bis)

Po-2/U-2VS (biplane night bomber)

Yak-18 (monoplane night bomber)

AT-6 (Forward air control, unarmed except for a light machine gun and target marking rockets)

An-2 (Popular STOLL transport)

L-20A (Popular STOLL transport)

 

There are also some aircraft that would need new technologies to be implemented:

 

Carrier Based (USN/Fleet Air Arm) and/or Airborne Interception Radar Equipped:

Sea Fury FB.11 (carrier, non-radar) Exceptionally high performance, power boost ailerons.

Seafire Fr.47 (carrier, non-radar) Only served one tour. Contra-rotating props.

Fairey Firefly (carrier, sometime with radar) Performance similar to Skyraider, but somewhat inferior bombload.

F2H-2 (carrier, non-radar) Straight wing predecessor of the F9F, used for ground attack and reconnaisance.

TBM-3 (carrier, ASW or warning radar) Only used for ASW and support roles.

 

F7F (carrier and non-carrier, SCR-720 radar) Used for night fighter patrols, night interdiction and night bombing.

F-82F/G (non-carrier, SCR-720 radar) Used mainly as a night fighter, but also used for almost six months in the ground attack role.

F-94 (carrier, AN/APG-33 radar) Naval jet night fighter

F-3D (carrier, AN/APQ-35 radar) Naval jet night fighter

 

Aircraft losses give some idea of the significance of various types

Spoiler

Using the Sewell as a reference, and simplifying it a bit, we get the following losses:

F-4U	555
F-51	477
F-80	298
F-86	275
F-84	234
AD-2	211
F9F	163
B-26	154
B-29	107
AT-6D	102
Seafury	62
Meteor	42
Firefly	38

 

vs.

 

MiG-15	345
MiG15bis	83
Yak-9P	30
Il-10	11
Tu-2	9
La-9	8
Po-2	7
La-11	6
Yak-18	3
A-20G	1

 

Losses roughly correlate with the amount of combat usage an airplane sees, which vaguely correlates with its importance. So it is a good place to start when thinking about what a representative planeset would look like.

 

Notes:

- The B-26 is a redesignated A-26 Invader

- Each type includes subvariants (Except the Mig-15 and Mig 15 Bis which are listed separately. However, it may well be the case that the other Mig-15s were actually Bis variants).

 

Some aircraft may have been important for reasons other than the numbers lost, especially early in the war where some types may have made up a larger percentage of losses (the above lists go for the entire length of the war so they don't represent the most important types in each period).

 

I'd personally enjoy an F-82G converted for daylight use... even though only 15 were shot down, they did play a bigger role at the start of the war (e.g. first offensive air mission, first victory by an American aircraft), and they had their radars removed once they switched to ground-attack duties.

 

Some of the lesser used types:

L-4	36
F7F	28
TBM-3	18
OY-1	16
F2H	15
PBM-5	15
F-82G	15
F-94B	14
C-47A	13
OE-1	9

 

Helicopters:

H-5F	26
H-5D	17
H-13A	13
H-19A	11

 

Land based USMC aircraft (courtesy of BlackSix):

Spoiler

F9F from VMF-115 and VMF-311 USMC

F4U/AU-1 from VMF-212/VMA-212, VMF-312/VMA-312, VMF-323/VMA-323 and VMF(N)-513 USMC

F3D from VMF(N)-513 USMC

F7F from VMF(N)-513 and VMF(N)-542 USMC

 

 

Similar era (pre-1955 service entry), but not deployed in Korea

Spoiler

British:

Meteor F.4 (withdrawn 1952)

DeHavilland Vampire FB.5 (The main fighter-bomber of the 2nd TAF in Europe during Korea).

DeHavilland Venom (The Venom is to the Vampire as the Tempest is to the Typhoon - redesigned, more powerful engine, new wing for high altitudes).

Sabre Mk.5 (7.5% more thrust than F-86F-30)

Seahawk (Carrier based, used in Suez)

 

Soviet:

La-15 (lighter competitor to the Mig-15, shorter ranged, in service until 1953)

Yak-17 (Yak-15 derivative, being withdrawn shortly after Korea began, performance only slightly greater than piston designs)

Yak 23 (withdrawn 1951, pod-and-boom design like the Yak-17, but considerably faster)

Mig-17A (Entered service during Korea, 1952, 21% higher climb rate than the Mig-15 and better high speed handling)

Il-10M (Small production run from 1951 - 4x23mm cannons, improved avionics, new wing).

 

French:

Dassault Ouragan (1952)

Dassault Mystère IVA (1953)

Dassault Mystère IIC (1954)

 

Swedish:

J-21R (1950)

J-29A (1951)

A-29B (1953)

 

Later attack aircraft (but used in Suez along with Korean War types):

Westland Wyvern (Carrier based, 1953 service date, Suez crisis)

F84F (Post-Korea, 1954 service date, Suez crisis)

 

1955:

Mig-19A

Sabre Mk.6 (1143 km/h, 59.9 m/s climb; 1954; for comparison the F-86F did 1107 km/h, 47.2 m/s & the Mig-15Bis did 1076 km/h, 51.2 m/s)

 

Bombers:

Il-28 (Used by China from 1952, sued in Europe from 1950, saw combat in Suez, jet powered successor to the Tu-2)

Canberra (First series lacked radar and could be modelled. No guns until 1955 though)

B-47 (AI only - avionics are too complex)

 

Note: The above list is kept as an interesting reference. The developers have stated that they don't want to produce aircraft in a vacuum (without a theatre in which they were used). So these aircraft are now very unlikely unless they do the Suez Crisis or a counterfactual alternative history scenario (e.g. Cold War gone hot in 1954 over the Baltic).

[YoYo]

An-2 was used during Korean war as well so it could be good idea for transport missions like C-47, Ju-52 or Li-2 in BoX series.

Edited June 25, 2024 by YoYo

[Chief_Mouser]

Don't forget the Seafire.

[Avimimus]

What else did I miss?

[=621=Samikatz]

12 minutes ago, Avimimus said:

There are also some aircraft that would need new technologies to be implemented or new maps:

 

Carrier Based (USN/Fleet Air Arm) and/or Airborne Interception Radar Equipped

 

There's an excuse to model radars with the F-86 already as some A models received radar assisted gunsights, so I don't think it would be too huge of a leap to move onto dedicated radar interceptors after that. They already list radars as a feature on the website. It could just mean ground controllers, but it's a possibility they mean on aircraft too

 

Spoiler

[Stonehouse]

3 hours ago, Avimimus said:

What else did I miss?

 

Early helos?

[BraveSirRobin]

4 hours ago, YoYo said:

An-2 was used during Korean war as well so it could be good idea for transport missions like C-47, Ju-52 or Li-2 in BoX series.

Ju-52 was added because it was an iconic aircraft during the battle of Stalingrad.  C-47 yadda yadda Normandy. They’re not adding transports to this game until they get back to WW2.

[Stonehouse]

C-54 and Ki 54 as well as quite a few other US transports like the C46 and C119. PBM5s too. FAC aircraft arrived properly as well on the battlefield so things like the Cessna O-1. RN also used Seafire Mk47s

[YoYo]

For transport also C-46 Commando and C-119 Flying Boxcar are good ideas!

It was mentioned before, but Twin Mustang as collector plane could be very interesting too!

 

 

 

 

Edited June 26, 2024 by YoYo

[EAF19_Marsh]

Make a Suez and Berlin map for the '50s and we can have a lot of nice toys.

[Avimimus]

1 hour ago, EAF19_Marsh said:

Make a Suez and Berlin map for the '50s and we can have a lot of nice toys.

 

Yes, the Suez crisis happened slightly later but a lot of the aircraft were second-line or export variants - so the collection of aircraft is Korean War era. I also like the idea of Suez because it'd give us some desert to fly over. That said, the actual amount of air combat was fairly brief (if I recall correctly).

[EAF19_Marsh]

49 minutes ago, Avimimus said:

 

Yes, the Suez crisis happened slightly later but a lot of the aircraft were second-line or export variants - so the collection of aircraft is Korean War era. I also like the idea of Suez because it'd give us some desert to fly over. That said, the actual amount of air combat was fairly brief (if I recall correctly).

 

Indeed. Suez would have to be 'dynamic' rather than 'historic' setting. But it could have been a significant air war. Also, IL-28s, Vatours and so forth would be breaking absolutely new ground in the flight sim. world. It would leave the GB series standing and DCS would be green with envy.

 

Now all we have to do is find customers for obscure '50s aircraft...

[migmadmarine]

For radar equipped aircraft, besides the ones mentioned above (F-82 would be very cool) there were F4U-5N in service, though mostly in CAS use I believe.

[migmadmarine]

Also, weren't AT-6s used by FACs in Korea, or was that a Vietnam thing?

[BlitzPig_EL]

It was AT 6, called them Mosquitos, and they were armed with white phosphorus rockets.

[LuftManu]

On 6/26/2024 at 8:21 AM, YoYo said:

For transport also C-46 Commando and C-119 Flying Boxcar are good ideas!

It was mentioned before, but Twin Mustang as collector plane could be very interesting too!

 

 

 

 

Twin Mustangs are really interesting, indeed. 

They were very succesfull fighting on the first months of the war.

[Avimimus]

41 minutes ago, LuftManu said:

Twin Mustangs are really interesting, indeed. 

They were very succesfull fighting on the first months of the war.

 

From July 1950 to January 1951 they were also deployed in the ground attack role, and many had their radars removed (as they were excess weight and vulnerable to damage from ground fire)... so there is an argument for giving us a 'day fighter' version without radar.

 

Interestingly, it was by far the fastest piston engined fighter in Korea (beating the F4U-4, La-9, and even the Sea Fury).

[LuftManu]

5 minutes ago, Avimimus said:

 

From July 1950 to January 1951 they were also deployed in the ground attack role, and many had their radars removed (as they were excess weight and vulnerable to damage from ground fire)... so there is an argument for giving us a 'day fighter' version without radar.

 

Interestingly, it was by far the fastest piston engined fighter in Korea (beating the F4U-4, La-9, and even the Sea Fury).

Being an "exotic" looking aircraft, I think this could be a cool candidate for a collector

 

If we can cross out the Corsair, F-51, Yak-9P, there is also a little change we might see it?

Also, we have tons of data https://www.flight-manuals-online.com/product/north-american-f-82-twin-mustang/

 

Kind regards,

[Aapje]

It would fit the theme of having half of the fighters being jets if we get a piston and a jet collector plane. Meteor and twin Mustang?

[BlitzPig_EL]

Having a 460~480mph piston engined aircraft would be interesting for sure.  Add in the endurance to fly anywhere on the map to deliver the pain and it would be a welcome addition.  Having it's guns concentrated on the centerline would have to be devastating in air to air or for straffing.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 29, 2024 by BlitzPig_EL

[BlitzPig_EL]

 

Take my money, please!

Edited June 29, 2024 by BlitzPig_EL

[Blitzen]

All the observation planes but esp the T-6 which did brilliant target marking..."Out on a Limb:"

[BlitzPig_EL]

The National Museum of the USAF at Wright Field in Dayton OH, has a T-6D "Mosquito" FAC aircraft on display...

https://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/Visit/Museum-Exhibits/Fact-Sheets/Display/Article/196107/north-american-t-6d-mosquito/

 

[CountZero]

so out of 50+ main airplane types in war, ppl still think they have time to do trainer or cargo airplanes cccc  8 slots and 2-4 collectors at best and you guys expect they gona do obscure types ? tell me how that makes any sence

 

so out of main airplanes, expecting that last 2 for first 8 are Yak-9P and F84,  they have to do F-86E, F86F, F9F, B-26, La-11, MiG-15, this is just if they keep campaign on UN side american only, and no carriers planed. Oh and Po-2 for funz of it, and probably later on make Tu-2 AI only to playable.

 

and for helos i doubt you gona see them as in game objects...

Edited June 29, 2024 by CountZero

[=MERCS=JenkemJunkie]

I'd love a F82 as a collector. It's weird, and also has mass appeal since it's a mustang. It's perfect.

[BlitzPig_EL]

Setting my obvious F82 fan boyism aside, owing to the timeframe that the sim will start with, a straight wing F84 is probably a better first choice, as it was widely used by the USAF in the attack role, and did good work in that role.  But I'd still like to see the F82 at some point if for no other reason than it was the pinnacle of USAF prop technology.

[Gambit21]

Pretty sure the F-84 is planned.

 

F9F is the big ticket unknown/no-brainer for down the road.

 

 

[Avimimus]

On 6/29/2024 at 12:14 PM, LuftManu said:

If we can cross out the Corsair, F-51, Yak-9P, there is also a little change we might see it?

 

Yes. Assuming the unannounced planes are the F-80, F-84. and Yak-9P, and ignoring variants of existing planes - my guess is that the following would make logical priorities:

 

(1) AD-2 or AD-4 Skyraider would seem essential:

Speed: 515-589 km/h (AD-1 50 km/h less than the F-51D, while the later AD-4 is about 200 km/h less than the F4U-4)

Manoeuvrability: The wing loading is lower than almost all other fighters. The AD-1 has a higher climb rate, while the AD-4 climbs about 15% slower than other fighters.

Warload: The Skyraider could carry two to six times the bomb load of other fighters (with the slower and lower climbing AD-4 having the larger bombload).

 

After that - a cannon equipped jet for the U.N. would make sense:

 

(2) Meteor F.8 (Royal Australian Air Force).

Speed: Similar to the Sabre (with the F-84E being slightly faster)

Thrust to weight ratio is better than the Sabre. However, its climb rate is worse.

Wing loading is also quite low.

Armament includes the RP-3 rocket (sixteen of them), including an Australian variant with napalm tanks attached to the rocket motor - giving some more variety than just using HVAR rockets.

 

(3) F9F-2 or F9F-4 (U.S. Marine Corp)

Speed: The F-2 is slower than other fighters, while the F-4 is potentially faster.

Thrust to weight ratio is better than other fighters (except the F-80C).

Climb rates are very low. Wing loading is high compared to other fighters.

 

Other piston engine designs:

 

(4) La-9 is quite likely. It was the peak of Soviet piston engine fighter design, and would give us two U.N. and two Soviet piston engine designs to fight each other, increasing variety in piston engined fights.

Speed: 690 km/h (slightly slower than the F4U-4 and Sea Fury, but faster than the Yak-9P).

Thrust to weight ratio is better than all other fighters.

Armament consists of 4x23mm cannons with only 90 rounds per gun (half that of U.N. fighters).

 

(5) F-82G (radarless field modification) is less likely but would be quite iconic:

Speed: 789 km/h means it can outrun any piston engined designs. It also has exceptional range at 3605 km.

Note: It was used in this a ground attack role for just over six months. As a night fighter version with the radar pod removed to save weight and reduce likelihood of damage, it probably would lack the gun-pod (never used in service) and the centreline bomb hardpoints (unfortunately) - so it wouldn't have quite the excess of firepower that earlier variants theoretically could muster (but it would still carry a lot).

 

(6) F7F-3N would require a radar:

 

Speed: 702 km/h and 21 m/s climb (allowing it to outrun enemy piston engined aircraft and outclimb all single engine fighters except the Yak-9P). Operated by the USMC from some land bases. Armament is four 20mm cannon, two 1000lb bombs and a drop tank (or napalm talk). Additionally, it could carry eight HVAR rockets or eight 100 lb bombs. Used as a night fighter, for night interdiction missions, for night bombing (with navigation and bomb release controlled remotely by radio), escorting other night bombers and occasionally day time close air support.

 

 

Future possibilities: If they get the carrier technology working (possibly as a DLC after they move to the Pacific?), the Sea Fury is quite likely as it had exceptionally high performance, and is very popular. There is also the possibility, if the series does very well, that the developers might be talked into making a Tu-2 or B-26 (i.e. A-26 Invader) flyable.

 

 

Of course, such collector planes would be in competition with variants of existing planes:

 

(1) Early Mig-15 - While most Soviet supplied Migs were the improved variant, some of the Chinese Mig-15 were earlier models.

 

(2) Early F-86A - the planned F-86A is almost an F-86E.

 

(3) F-86E with all moving tail, F-86F with all moving tail and new wing. These variants would have improved high speed manoeuvrability and improved high altitude performance.

 

(4) AU-1 Corsair - This is the USMC redesign of the Corsair once they realised it was being used exclusively as a Sturmovik. It had additional armour, additional hardpoints for twice the bomb load, and optimisation of the engine for low altitudes. It was about 90 km/h slower and had half the ceiling (it could only fly up to about 6km compared to the F4U's 12km)! It was introduced in 1952 near the end of the war, so this variant might be a bit less likely, but still probably as likely as the F-82G.

 

Spoiler

 

(5) The AD-2 and AD-4 Skyraiders are also different enough from each other that I could see them possibly both being added.

 

[JGr2-J5_Tabasco]

I really hope the Douglas Skyraider makes it on the scene.

[Gambit21]

21 hours ago, Avimimus said:

(4) La-9 is quite likely. It was the peak of Soviet piston engine fighter design, and would give us two U.N. and two Soviet piston engine designs to fight each other, increasing variety in piston engined fights.

 

 

Look for the La-11 sooner than later.

[Avimimus]

28 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

Look for the La-11 sooner than later.

 

What makes you think that? Do you know something I don't?! 😄 Also, an La-11 instead of an La-9? 25% less firepower, 15km/h slower, and a much lower rate of climb in return for extended range?

[=621=Samikatz]

14 hours ago, Avimimus said:

What makes you think that? Do you know something I don't?! 😄 Also, an La-11 instead of an La-9? 25% less firepower, 15km/h slower, and a much lower rate of climb in return for extended range?

 

The La-11 also has an on-board urinal, can't discount that advantage

[Gambit21]

14 hours ago, Avimimus said:

What makes you think that? Do you know something I don't?! 😄 

It’s happened before

 

That said there’s been time for plans to change.

 

 

 

 

La-11 is relevant for Korea as well.

[Juri_JS]

I did some reading on the use of the AT-6 as forward air controller and to me it sounds like the plane is a must-have for a Korea flight sim, if we want to see realistic close air support missions, even if it's just AI.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forward_air_control_operations_during_the_Korean_War

https://www.t6harvard.com/harvard-war-bird/t6-harvard-combat/

[migmadmarine]

I know I am a freak in the eyes of some, but I would love to fly AT-6 and L-5 in this

[Mtnbiker1998]

Personally I'm hoping for a Skyraider. I suspect if I do end up buying this (and thats a big if) it'll primarily be an A2G game for me. Corsair and F-51 should be pretty fun though.

[migmadmarine]

Well, that is the main roll that the Corsair and F-51 were flying at the time, so two great tastes that taste great together. 

 

[Duckman]

On 6/26/2024 at 12:09 AM, =621=Samikatz said:

 

There's an excuse to model radars with the F-86 already as some A models received radar assisted gunsights, so I don't think it would be too huge of a leap to move onto dedicated radar interceptors after that. They already list radars as a feature on the website. It could just mean ground controllers, but it's a possibility they mean on aircraft too.

 

Going into wishlist land but I think WWII nightfighting is possibly the most neglected flight sim topic of all, with the potential for some great gameplay. So I'm really hoping they set off down the primitive radar path.

 

On 6/26/2024 at 3:53 AM, Stonehouse said:

 

Early helos?

 

Reminds me of the Cliffs of Dover autogyro.

 

On 6/26/2024 at 8:21 AM, YoYo said:

 

For transport also C-46 Commando and C-119 Flying Boxcar are good ideas!

It was mentioned before, but Twin Mustang as collector plane could be very interesting too!

 

 

Big yes to the Twin Mustang! Another cult classic and potential fan favourite. This is probably our only chance to fly this wonderful oddity in combat.

 

On 6/30/2024 at 9:14 PM, =621=Samikatz said:

 

The La-11 also has an on-board urinal, can't discount that advantage

 

Perfect for ultra long range missions against the Twin Mustang.

[Aapje]

2 hours ago, Duckman said:

Going into wishlist land but I think WWII nightfighting is possibly the most neglected flight sim topic of all, with the potential for some great gameplay. So I'm really hoping they set off down the primitive radar path.

 

Darkness is hard to do well, given the challenges that many flat monitors and VR headsets have with blacks, and because most people don't want to play in the dark.