Secondary Systems Window - Can/how to change colour of text

[BOO]

The secondary systems window text colour seems to be set as blue which I find almost impossible to see against a lot of backgrounds

 

Is there any way of changing this?

[FTC_Rostic]

2 hours ago, BOO said:

The secondary systems window text colour seems to be set as blue which I find almost impossible to see against a lot of backgrounds

 

Is there any way of changing this?

 

No. To improve readability you have to increase text size.

 

Also you can change background transparency (inactive state) to be less transparent. But when text disappear information window rect area will stay on the screen.

Edited January 18 by FTC_Rostic

[BOO]

48 minutes ago, FTC_Rostic said:

 

No. To improve readability you have to increase text size.

 

Also you can change background transparency (inactive state) to be less transparent. But when text disappear information window rect area will stay on the screen.

 

Shame as its possbily the worst colour than could have been chosen.

[Mysticpuma]

A simple option in the 'console' would be useful?

[343KKT_Kintaro]

I no longer use info windows. For a few years now I want to fly in the closest setting to what "full realism" might mean (thus, no "magical" text suddenly popping on sight from an unknown and supernatural limbo...). Nevertheless, I'm almost sure that different categories of systems and/or informations can be set with different colours. In my memories, damaged systems, in a former install of mine, were orange...

[BOO]

2 hours ago, 343KKT_Kintaro said:

I no longer use info windows. For a few years now I want to fly in the closest setting to what "full realism" might mean (thus, no "magical" text suddenly popping on sight from an unknown and supernatural limbo...). Nevertheless, I'm almost sure that different categories of systems and/or informations can be set with different colours. In my memories, damaged systems, in a former install of mine, were orange...

 

I find them to be useful quick references, especially in bomber sights where the graphics and my eyes are not always in tune with one another. 

 

They are a bit of an inflexible curse in that the engine control, for instance, occuipes a box far larger than needed and thefore dosent stay snugged up in the corner but needs to be reset spawn but its the work of a second. 

[343KKT_Kintaro]

About the colours, I still think is doable, unless my memories are confused...

[BOO]

9 hours ago, 343KKT_Kintaro said:

About the colours, I still think is doable, unless my memories are confused...

 

They are.  The Secondary Systems window is, for some unknown and unfathomable reason, the only window you cant configure in game for colour or size. Nor it seems can you "hack" it in the user accessable configUser.ini as it overwrites anything you put in. 

Edited January 19 by BOO

[BOO]

So......

 

Now I have this

 

Not distracting at all

 

Edited January 19 by BOO

[Dawson]

Options for the info windows fonts would help. I have often trouble with the white server messages against the Sun's glare. Text outline or shadow options would improve legibility.

[Volant_Eagle]

A text outline option would be great. Possibly an auto black/white outline. If the background is below a certain brightness, the outline would be white, and of above that limit it would be black.

 

The option I want most for text windows is smaller font options. We just have Small, Medium, and Large, but small is already 2 times larger than I want text to be. 

[BOO]

After a lot of messing over the years I found Yellow suited me best for the engine controls (placed Lower Right in the screen) - nothing is ideal and the auto contrast would be great who needs auto contrast when the game tell you 

 

FLAPS DOWN

[FTC_Rostic]

13 hours ago, Volant_Eagle said:

The option I want most for text windows is smaller font options. We just have Small, Medium, and Large, but small is already 2 times larger than I want text to be. 

 

There is fourth option "Fixed Small". I use it as the smallest one.

6 hours ago, BOO said:

After a lot of messing over the years I found Yellow suited me best for the engine controls ...

 

I was using that for years but after tobruk release switched to "Hot pink".

Yellow is hard to read over desert.

Edited January 20 by FTC_Rostic

[Volant_Eagle]

3 hours ago, FTC_Rostic said:

There is fourth option "Fixed Small". I use it as the smallest one.

Thanks! I thought this was the same as small. I guess when I last tested this I mixed up which output I had set it to.

 

"Fixed Small" is definitely a noticeable improvement. I'd still like something slightly smaller for some applications though, and I'm not sure yet what I think of the different font. It would be nice to also have the option for the bolder and more generic font used in the other three size options.

 

 

 

Is there a way to temporarily hide only a specific window? There is a keybind to hide all windows, but it would be really nice to have a "hide" option when you right click on a window that just hides that window. It could then be brought back into view either by right clicking the area it was in and unhiding it, or maybe by toggling the "hide all windows" keybind.

 

I mostly play online so I have a lot of windows set up for various useful information. But then my screen is all cluttered with text which is both distracting and really ruins the emersion. Recently I've been using the hide all windows keybind a lot more often. It gets my head out of the cockpit and I much prefer the feel of only using the cockpit instrumentation. However, there's usually something specific I'm keeping an eye on that requires a text box when I'm online. It would be really nice if I could have just that box or boxes visible without having to delete and then later recreate the other boxes when I want them again. For instance, if I could only have my chat box visible at all times, but still be able to bring up all my other boxes with the click of a button if I need to.

 

Maybe a simpler solution would be a third option for the hide all windows keybind to step through. Instead of just having all visible or all hidden, there could be a middle "partially hidden" mode to toggle through. When in this mode, you can select and hide/unhide any window. If hidden, that window will be hidden whenever you toggle into this mode but the others won't be.

[BOO]

1 hour ago, Volant_Eagle said:

Go away little boxes....

 

Can you just not set low histories and short time outs on 0 BG inavtive boxes? 

 

Im assuming the hide windows is just an overlay toggle and all the little boxes live on that one overlay. 

[Volant_Eagle]

4 hours ago, BOO said:

Can you just not set low histories and short time outs on 0 BG inavtive boxes?

You mean to "hide" them without actually deleting them? That's a clever idea, but not a full solution.

 

My suggestion was to be able to go between minimal text boxes (not no text boxes), and all my text boxes, with just a button press. Having to open up each box's settings menu and fiddle with its settings is impractical in flight (much less in a dogfight). If it can't be done in one or two key strokes, then why even bother with such a feature?

 

Having everything just time out really fast is not a full solution either. It's too easy to miss something if for the one second it happens to display on screen, you were a little busy avoiding virtual death or some other similar thing. And at least on the TWC server, there are a lot of features that are almost useless if they timeout given how dang long it takes to read them.

[FTC_Rostic]

17 hours ago, Volant_Eagle said:

... Is there a way to temporarily hide only a specific window? ...

 

Nope, there is no such feature. That is something I made a feature request for some time ago: https://www.tfbt.nuvturais.de/issues/1128

Luckily, at least, we got hide all info windows some time later. Some times I also would like to have ability to show/hide specific info window by hot key. As a dumb solution I described feature like this:

Quote

 

2) Additionally it willbe better if you provide some extra keys like:

• Hide infowindow key1,
• Hide infowindow key2,
• Hide infowindow key3.

Add to information window parameter that will select which key will hide this window.
With this feature it will be possible to hide individually 'chat window', 'motor monitor' and any other window (or group of windows) that player want.

 

 

Conflict with toggle all info windows key can be resolved differently. I prefer the way when toggle all info windows key will show only info windows that were visible on the screen in the moment they were hidden by this key. While in case when all windows already hidden and one of dedicated hotkeys pressed it will show all info windows that were hidden by toggle all key and also will show all the info windows assigned to that dedicated key that was pressed.

Should be trivial thing in my imagination. Though some one have to spend quite some time to implement it and test it. Time can very much vary depending on how info window code is fucked up by original game developer ("Maddox games").

 

Though, this feature above is not critical. I'd rather see ones below implemented/fixed.

 

I made a proposal for info window background to fade out (disappear) when no text displayed.

https://www.tfbt.nuvturais.de/issues/1520

 

Also would be nice when key press in info window will stop bypass window and affect aircraft controls described there.

https://www.tfbt.nuvturais.de/issues/1521

 

Also this discussion reminded me about feature request I would like to add to BT. Is anyone see the difference?

[Hiuuz]

Man, that text shadow is a difference!

[BOO]

@Volant_Eagle and @batmacumba. The idea to be able to switch off overlays invidiudally or at least in groups must be possible since the Net Stats window is user summonable separately from everythig else.

 

In my dull little mind, if Net Stats can do it so could could Chat and Server?  

[batmacumba]

5 minutes ago, BOO said:

@Volant_Eagle and @batmacumba. The idea to be able to switch off overlays invidiudally or at least in groups must be possible since the Net Stats window is user summonable separately from everythig else.

 

In my dull little mind, if Net Stats can do it so could could Chat and Server?  

 

Are you asking if it is implementable? Yes, of course.

 

Can I hijack this thread temporarily to ask you guys something? Do you need the in-cockpit UI to have that many configuration options? Personally, I would prefer if the game figured out what information the player needed to see where and just displayed it. For example, chat goes here, server messages there, systems feed somewhere else and that's it. The player could have the option to hide each one of these individually (as you're suggesting) or toggle them all on or off.

 

Do you need to be able to reposition windows, customize windows, etc?

[BOO]

2 minutes ago, batmacumba said:

 

Are you asking if it is implementable? Yes, of course.

 

Can I hijack this thread temporarily to ask you guys something? Do you need the in-cockpit UI to have that many configuration options? Personally, I would prefer if the game figured out what information the player needed to see where and just displayed it. For example, chat goes here, server messages there, systems feed somewhere else and that's it. The player could have the option to hide each one of these individually (as you're suggesting) or toggle them all on or off.

 

Do you need to be able to reposition windows, customize windows, etc?

 

Hello @batmacumba. Your not hijacking at all. Yes I was asking if its possible. 

 

In terms of fixed positions for the windows, looking about the you tubes over the years everyone has different preferences especially when it comes to engine systemposition and style. Is it not posible to have both a toggleable window and a window that can be positioned?  I think the options for colours and text size might also be important although @FTC_Rostic's idea of having backshadow to the text would solve at lot of issues in that regard. 

 

Given few are especially struck with the current implementation, I dont think offering a fixed but toggleable option would be an especially hard sell. Perhaps with a poll as to certain options to see which is more preferable overall?  As long at it fits EXACTLY what I want, i'd be cool with that 🙂 

 

 

[BENKOE]

Hey, I just had a thought: what about a 'Team Fusion Poll Tracker'?

[FTC_Rostic]

2 hours ago, batmacumba said:

 

Are you asking if it is implementable? Yes, of course.

 

Can I hijack this thread temporarily to ask you guys something? Do you need the in-cockpit UI to have that many configuration options? Personally, I would prefer if the game figured out what information the player needed to see where and just displayed it. For example, chat goes here, server messages there, systems feed somewhere else and that's it. The player could have the option to hide each one of these individually (as you're suggesting) or toggle them all on or off.

 

Do you need to be able to reposition windows, customize windows, etc?

 

Currently default info windows is a mess. So, I'm glad I can fix that for myself, thanks to flexible configuration options available!

 

If CloD could be playable with UI totally switched off, like DCS, I'll just remove all the controls info windows for myself. But right now when I switch off UI I can't do a lot of stuff, like accurately adjust bomb sight in Wellington (and most of other bombers), because head movement is so limited so I can't adjust my view to see the entered speed value on the scale. I can't figure out heading in RAF aircrafts without digital text message due to Lubber Pin is missing on compass. And so on.

 

That post contain several feature requests and bug reports to be implemented or covered by total overhaul of info windows system.

 

 

Additionally I would like to get a new feature that when control state alternated by player it will not generate new line in info window, it should update the old one that is still visible. So, you do no get in window something like:

DI: 312

DI: 311

DI: 310

DI: 309

DI: 308

DI: 307

 

 

And second feature will be nice that in chat window all messages (within history limit) to be shown again, when player activates that chat!

 

 

 

2 hours ago, BOO said:

..although @FTC_Rostic's idea of having backshadow to the text would solve at lot of issues in that regard. ...

 

 

Additionally to this would be great to get info window opaque background to fade out with last message. UI you see below is an absolute fake. I was playing with ideas what can be improved, but ended up with a thought that you can't just add few effects and change some colors to make it better. So, total info window overhaul is a must.

 

 

 

Let's see what we have in BoX and DCS.

 

1) No way no configure HUD/UI and I never had a thought I need to adjust anything.

2) In DCS I can fly without HUD/UI - because it is how it is intended to be by design. In BoX I can fly without HUD almost always, until the moment I need to jump to bombsight.

3) In DCS I can make Chat window always minimized to envelope icon so it never bothers me (except icon itself). In BoX UI is just always hidden (except bomb sight operations).

4) When I learn new aircraft in BoX I do use UI and I think it is very well done. CloD definitely can take the best of it.

5) DCS world has server popup messages system separate from server chat messages. That is a cool thing when player need that. I just hate I cant switch them off when I do not need them, especially in track replays.
 

 

2 hours ago, batmacumba said:

Do you need the in-cockpit UI to have that many configuration options?

 

So, finally, do we need it? That is very much depends how it will be implemented if we can't

But I highly recommend to keep it or make new one as flexible as it is now.

Edited January 25 by FTC_Rostic

[BOO]

Personally Id find the engine systems popping in and fading out on adjustment too distracting. I would prefer those to be on or off (user toggle)

[FTC_Rostic]

6 minutes ago, BOO said:

Personally Id find the engine systems popping in and fading out on adjustment too distracting. I would prefer those to be on or off (user toggle)

 

There is a timeout option in info windows, so should be customizable. 0 = never fade out.

 

@batmacumba, see. Flexible configuration is a good thing when it is there

[FTC_Rostic]

Original message updated. Chat feature request visualized.

 

[Dawson]

On 1/25/2025 at 7:15 AM, batmacumba said:

 

 Do you need the in-cockpit UI to have that many configuration options? Personally, I would prefer if the game figured out what information the player needed to see where and just displayed it. For example, chat goes here, server messages there, systems feed somewhere else and that's it. The player could have the option to hide each one of these individually (as you're suggesting) or toggle them all on or off.

 

Do you need to be able to reposition windows, customize windows, etc?

In the very short term the default info windows as set by a new installation need to be changed. A new "confUser.ini" should be included in the installation.

 

The default settings are terrible and give new players a terrible view of the game. The translucent grey window looks like a mistake. There should be a chat window by default. I've seen obviously new players join a server but can't get their plane started. We try to offer assistance by chat but they don't respond, presumably because they don't see the messages. I'd bet more than a few of them quit in frustration.

 

This could be done without a code change while a better solution is being developed.

Edited January 26 by Dawson

[FTC_Rostic]

26 minutes ago, Dawson said:

In the very short term the default info windows as set by a new installation need to be changed. A new "confUser.ini" should be included in the installation.

 

The default settings are terrible a give new players a terrible view of the game. The translucent grey window looks like a mistake. There should be a chat window by default. I've seen obviously new players join a server but can't get their plane started. We try to offer assistance by chat but they don't respond, presumably because they don't see the messages. I'd bet more than a few of them quit in frustration.

 

This could be done without a code change while a better solution is being developed.

 

Totally agree. Once, last year, I proposed something like that.

Also made a guide with layout how I see it.

Though, digital engine info window can be removed and just analog left. So, it will be even more clean.

 

https://www.mediafire.com/file/hiab5iyxbciuty7/CloD_new_user_tips_and_tricks_%28v.1.0%29.pdf/file

 

Edited January 25 by FTC_Rostic

[Volant_Eagle]

On 1/25/2025 at 6:02 AM, BOO said:

if Net Stats can do it so could could Chat and Server?

Good point. And that's really all I'm asking for anyway. At the very minimum, if we had the option to pair whatever box we wanted with the hide/reveal netstats keybind, that would pretty much accomplish what I'm asking for. For instance, I could pair all of my boxes except my chat box with the netstats keybind, and when I hide the netstats, all boxes except my chat would also be hidden with the netstats.

 

On 1/25/2025 at 6:15 AM, batmacumba said:

Can I hijack this thread temporarily to ask you guys something? Do you need the in-cockpit UI to have that many configuration options? Personally, I would prefer if the game figured out what information the player needed to see where and just displayed it. For example, chat goes here, server messages there, systems feed somewhere else and that's it. The player could have the option to hide each one of these individually (as you're suggesting) or toggle them all on or off.

 

Do you need to be able to reposition windows, customize windows, etc?

I think a lot of people including myself would see that as a significant step backwards. I don't think it's possible to put everything where everyone would like it to be all the time. Everyone will have a different preference for where things should be, what size the box should be, what size the text should be, what color it should be, what information is grouped together in a box vs in its own separate box, etc. And even for one individual player, this preference may be completely different in one aircraft vs another, one server vs another, multiplayer vs single player, bombing vs dogfighting, etc. The customizability of CloD's text boxes is unique and stands out above most other sims. Occasionally I run into new player's online that are coming from other sims and just giving CloD a try. They may find the default layout a little funky and then be wondering if they can customize it. Once they find out they can and realize how incredibly flexible it is, they are usually quite impressed. It would be a shame to get rid of that in my opinion.

 

Now redesigning or rethinking how the default boxes are setup is another question entirely, and one I think is worth looking into. I don't really remember at this point what the default looked like anymore, so it's hard to comment at the moment on what could/should be changed.

 

I do think the aircraft systems aspect of the in game UI could use a make-over. Something more akin to how great battle works in this regard would be nice. Having icons appear discreetly on the edge of screen is something I like. It would really be nice if we could get notifications when temps, pressures, or speed/rpm limits get into caution or warning regions. Getting a message that your oil gasket just blew out is not very helpful when it coincides with your plane shaking like mad and oil spraying all over the windscreen. It's kind of too late at that point. It's also not obvious what the cause of that failure was to a new player. Were my temps too high? was my rpm set too high? was my manifold pressure too high? was it not my fault and that gunner or AA just hit my engine? I usually had no clue when I was starting out which made it difficult to prevent it from happening again.

 

Some people may view such "preemptive" UI warnings as cheating; you should pay more attention to your gauges and study your airplane better. That's a perfectly valid objection. So if such notifications were to be added, they should probably be something that servers should have option to block.

 

Adding clarity to some of the messages is something I think everyone could approve of though. Instead of only "Governor failure" in all cases of governor failure, it would nice to have "Governor failure due to overspeed", "Governor failure due to gunfire", "Governor failure due to loss of electrics", or "Governor failure due to loss of oil pressure". And what by the way does a "kinematic failure" even mean? Is assume it means some sort of structural damage to a moving component. There has to be a clearer and more understandable way to articulate such a failure so the player actually knows what happened.

 

On 1/25/2025 at 7:36 AM, FTC_Rostic said:

If CloD could be playable with UI totally switched off, like DCS, I'll just remove all the controls info windows for myself. But right now when I switch off UI I can't do a lot of stuff, like accurately adjust bomb sight in Wellington (and most of other bombers), because head movement is so limited so I can't adjust my view to see the entered speed value on the scale. I can't figure out heading in RAF aircrafts without digital text message due to Lubber Pin is missing on compass. And so on.

I completely agree with this. CloD is in a unique position which makes a customizable UI much more valuable than other sims for exactly these reasons. DCS has basically every single feature modelled in a functional way allowing the user to more easily us everything like he/she is really there. GB does things in a more simplified way and the cockpits aren't even clickable. CloD is in the middle somewhere which has its positives and negatives. The negatives are mostly related to features not being made functional enough to actually be usable. We definitely don't need CloD to be a full study level detail sim like DCS, but there are a lot of cases where we need a little more fidelity than we currently have. This is sort of branching into an entirely different subject though. Suffice it to say we need better head movement and some aircraft could really use a couple more functional features.

[batmacumba]

Cool. Thanks a lot, guys. I understand most of you would want us to improve the default layout and functionality, while keeping the customization possibilities. 👍